jamist649

I lost a Scout yesterday. Well, at least I'm pretty sure I've lost him. I asked his family about the Pinewood Derby and they looked all deer-in-the-headlights and said "uhh, I don't think he's gonna...do that." Translation: We're done. I don't know what turned them away, the boy seemed to really like the program. Joined as a Tiger last year, has been active up until the last meeting, then...nothing. But Mom has been asking questions lately about meetings, schedules, etc. I guess our program is a little too active...but I'm only guessing. So, again, not big deal I suppose. That's why Packs are usually big and the Troops aren't quite as large. I tell myself to focus on the "core" Scouts. The ones who are at every meeting, who get the work done and who seem to enjoy it. But it's hard not to take the rejection personally. Anyway, this makes 5 or 6 that I've lost out of our original 43 so I guess that's not too bad. Just makes me sad that this family didn't see us as a priority. Thanks for listening.

Congrats on your appointment. Keep us posted!

Lisa: Thank you so much for your candid yet tactful reply. I appreciate your honesty and prespective.

Scoutnut: Ok, nowhere in my post did I say I had treated that family any differently than any of the other boys. For the record, I have not. So there is nothing for me to "think about"..she is leaving our town because the Troop here is old-school and BOY run, as opposed to (as someone put it) a Webelos III. She also thinks that having her son in the next town over (even though they live over here) will somehow make her likable with the country club set. I have remained silent on her decision and openly told all of the WIIs that they are welcome to go where they please....even though it KILLS me to do so. The WII den leader has done all of the things mentioned here earlier. However, he-himself-is at a quandry as to what to do with his own son. He wants the group (most of which has been together since Tiger) to stay together but he's not keen on driving the 30 minutes to the neighboring Troop for meetings either. They visited with 3 Troops, camped, and we have invited the local Troop to visit on numerous occasions. We also have 2 older brothers in the local Troop who have little brothers in Cubs who are at EVERY Den meeting talking about what they do in the Troop. I don't know what else I can do to try to acclimate these guys to the Troop...ALL troops. Even though it's almost nauseating to me. The leaders of the other Troops have avoided us like the plague, refused to return calls from me, and will only speak to my WII DL when meeting. That's the kind of folks they are. Unless you are in 'the clique' they don't want anything to do with you, and the fact that I will have to stand up and perform a ceremony and smile and give my blessing while all of this occurs...well, let's just say I'd rather not. BUT, I will. As to the trash talk, that's a TALL order with this woman. You just gotta know her. Her son is a good boy, her husband is great, she is a raging Young and Restless episode. Drama ALL...THE...TIME. Maybe, it's a good thing that she is taking her son with her...but I hate that she is trying to take our local boys with her out of town. Ok, I'm being an @$$, point taken. I'll desist. But I won't like it. :-/

Our Pack is preparing for crossover which will be held in conjuction with a Pack campout in April. Our Webelos II consists of 7 boys who will be crossing over. Here's the problem (at least *I* think it's a problem). I am the CM of this Pack. My Son is a Web I and we've known (along with EVERY boy in his Den) where we were going to cross for a year now, at least. We are from a small town and we have historically crossed over to the local Troop that gives us our Den chiefs, helps us at events, etc. We are lucky to have such a reliable and willing partner and helper in the Troop. Ok, fast forward to now. One of the parents is convinced that the current SM in our town in "too old" to carry on an active Troop. This couldn't be further from the truth. He has been SM for 20+ years and has more knowledge about Scouting in his little finger that most of the SM, CM, etc in the district put together. She (the parent) has made the decision that HER son will cross from our Pack to a Troop in the next town over. This Troop has never offered to help us out (which I guess is normal, they have thier own Pack in the next town over also) and we have had very little communication with them. Now, I know I have read on this forum before that it's up to the boy as to where he crosses, etc...BUT this is HIGHLY unusual for a boy from our town to cross anywhere else. I think it's a slap in the face of the local Troop that has done so much. I think it's also more about the next town over being a little more "affluent" than we are. I am TWO INCHES away from telling her that if she wants her son to cross to that Troop she needs to take him to the PACK over there too! Ok, so not big deal right? She/he (presumably) wants to cross over there so let him..Ok. HERE'S the BIG problem: She is starting to influence the other boys. Trash talking this Troop that has done SO MUCH for us and telling the other parents what they need to do. The WII DL is "undecided" himself as to what to do (so he says) and is no help. I am EMBARRASSED to stand in our town and "export" our boys out of town when we have not one but TWO functioning troops in our own town. The local Troop kind of needs our boys to fill out thier younger patrol and I am so ashamed that we are (in my mind) breaking our promise. Am I being overly sensitive or should I tell them how I feel?

Oh good grief! You can be MY CM!! How far are you from North Carolina? LOL :-)

First, the good stuff. You are to be commended for your enthusiasm and positive "get it done" attitude. I wish I had a few like you in my own Pack. Ok, now for the not-so-fun stuff: The Cubmaster position is "transient" in nature..for a reason. It is VERY labor intensive. I have done more manual labor since taking over my Pack as CM 18 months ago than I have done in my entire life. You, as CM, are called upon and looked to to get the WORK done when nobody else can/will. I have lifted tables at fundraisers, crawled around on the floor for hours getting the PWD track set up, assisted new families with tents, instructed campfire building, hauled popcorn boxes, and on and on... I have met many, many CMs since my appointment and I have yet to meet on that isn't quite young and in pretty good shape. It's VERY labor intensive. And, once you get in, you will learn very quickly that it will be YOU making it happen. I know that some Packs are different, HOWEVER you-yourself-said that no one in your Pack wants to step up...That leads me to feel that if you get your wish of leading this Pack you will find yourself setting up events/meetings alone. With your health, is that feasible? Here's what I suggest. I'd leave your "vision" printouts at home. I'd go in and casually (from the cuff) tell them how your feel. I would say something to the effect of: "Hey, I love this Pack. I've done XXX for this Pack and taken XXX training on my own. I love this Pack and these boys too much to see us settle for status quo. If that's offensive to anyone, I'm sorry. I will yeild to whatever the committee, parents, and mostly SCOUTS would like to do." Or something like that... That leaves it in thier hands. I, personally, think you'd make an outstanding ASSISTANT Cubmaster. You could do the administrative work (which I loathe) and the CM could do the more physical laborious activity. Best of luck to you...whatever happens.

I found myself with this same question last year. We did something very similar to what you are doing. They had already earned thier Webelos badge, so I got all of them a samll brass pin with the Boy Scout symbol on it and told them that was the goal for next season. It went over well. One thing we also did was put "war paint" on thier faces to signify what rank they were going to. As they marched in, we had an adult leader put an orange mark on the left side of each Tiger (upcoming wolf) face, as they crossed I put a gold mark on the other. Same thing with each rank. The boys thought it was the coolest thing...we had several who didn't want to wash thier face that night!

Gearing up for this year's Pinewood Derby next week and I have an unusual question. Since we have such a large group this year (not complaining) we have secured a sound system and microphone so that I won't have to scream at the top of my lungs for 3 hours solid. The system that we are using is capable of tying into an Ipod/mp3 player and I thought it would be a perfect opportunity to play a little "racing type" music during registration and after the event during snacks. The selections have to be very family friendly (for obvious reasons) BUT I wanted to shy away from very old, or "kid type" music. I've come up with the following: -"Life is a Highway" Rascal Flatts -"Real Gone" -Sheryl Crow -"Red Camaro" -Rascal Flatts -"Upside Down" -Jack Johnson and...I'm blank. I can't think of anything else. I'd like to have at least 10 good songs that the kids AND adults would like to hear. But, all I've got is this 4. Any help/ideas would be appreciated!

Don't punish the child, but send the check through the court system. You've certainly given them enough warning. Truth be told, you'll probably lose the Scout anyway. Kind of awkward to go to meetings when everybody knows you're a worthless check writer.

Thanks, everybody, for listening and for making me feel no so "out there". I think alot of the problem is over-scheduling on the parents part. Scouts, soccer, basketball, baseball, karate, etc... Why not pick one or two (or three) and focus on them instead of half-doing 9 different activities?! Ya'll hit the nail on the head too with the financial side of things. I've seen boys with Under Armor shirts and shoes/socks under the uniform, Ipods, cell phones, and the normal variety of handheld games ride up in Mom's Toyota Sequoia only to have Mom throw a fit over a $5 entry fee to the Pinewood Derby. Give me a break! I like the line about making at least some of the Scout meetings priority. I'm going to have to start using that. Can you not miss **ONE** basketball game? I actually had a parent tell me that his son would not be able to attend ANY MORE Saturday meetings until basketball season was OVER. Keyword: ANY. Translation: Your program (despite being the most active in the county and (arguably) the district) is not worthy of my son missing one single solitary moment of basketball.

Anyone who has a leadership position in a Cub Scout Pack knows very well the amount of time and planning it takes to run a "good" program. I often joke with folks I know that coach soccer, baseball, and other youth activities that thier positions are "easy" (remeber I said JOKE, don't want to start a war of words). They show up, play the game, and go home. It's pretty straightforward, the same game is played every year, and there is hardly ever any change. My point being: Why is it that we often, as Scout leaders, will encounter parents who will hit the ceiling about meeting more than 2 or 3 times A MONTH to get achievements completed for Scouts...but present NO protest to coaches when they demand practice 3 or 4 nights PER WEEK on school nights? Forgoing dinner, grabbing fast food just to make those practices? It seems to me (CM of Pack) that we put so much into planning and then the parents (not so much the Scouts who love to come and participate) have the feeling that if there is nothing else on earth that they may possibily be doing on that day, they will "try to make it". When I was "just" a parent in the Den, I made attending meetings a priority. I looked at it as a committment that we made to the Pack. We NEVER missed a meeting, even when I was unsure about Pack leadership at that time. We had signed on, so we would honor that committment. I felt it wasn't fair to the Den Leader to plan and deliver the program only to have to go back and try to catch my son (and myself) up. I have since learned that I am (so very much) in the minority. Anyway, sorry to vent on you guys like this but it just seems that we as parents seem to have our priorities backwards. How many boys join little leauge (nationwide) and end up playing even minor leauge as an adult? WAY less than 1%. However, how many grown men will talk to you for hours about what they learned as a Scout? Not to discount baseball or other sports, but it just seems a little "off" to me. Thanks for listening.

Go where you and your son get the best Scouting experience. I've seen so many boys join Pack that go throuh the motions simply because they thought they "had to". Search around and choose (carefully) the one you think will offer the most enriching and fun activity.

John: Excellent question. Let me expand on what I said. What we did was basically "introduce" the boys to the program during the sessions. We reviewed the scripture, talked about the families in the Bible, and gave them assignements to do until the following session/meeting. THIS was the time with his family. I didn't intend for his time in meetings to be the only time he interacted with his family. The workbooks went home with assignments for him, Mom, and Dad. My son and I (personally) spent several hours together working on the "pizza", going over the Bible verses, and reviwing the workbook OUTSIDE of the 6 hours in meetings. It was difficult enough to get the parents to block out time for 3 weeks of meetings, much less any more. The goal was to get these boys into Church (alot of them had only been to special events, Sunday School, etc). Our boys fulfilled the requirements, authority of the Pastor of the Church. We didn't "fudge", we did'nt give it away, and we didn't sell them short. The first thing I said when we opened the program was that "Incomplete work would not be awarded"...we didn't, praise be to God, have to worry about that in the end however.

Today, we awarded 10 of our Webelos I and IIs with the "God and Family" Religious Emblem and knot. It is an indepth and comprehensive program, but one that my son, the Pack, and I enjoyed. We met at a local Church (Pastor has 2 boys in the Pack) and did 2 of the "sessions" per week. We did this for 3 weekends in a row as there are 6 "sessions" in the program. Our meetings ran abour 2 hours each, plus the boys had a little bit of work to do at home. I was unsure when I saw the complexity of the program, but we did it and it went off very well. We also invivted Scouts from neighboring (smaller) Packs to join and we had six (6) takers. We awarded the emblems today at Scout Sunday. What a blessing and proud moment. If anybody would like to ask about running the program with your unit, I'd be willing to share my (limited) knowledge. I love to see this spread to other units, it's worth the effort. pack29@suddenlink.net(This message has been edited by jamist649)

Thanks for your replies thus far. I've already got the ball rolling on one meeting with the Bears. Hopefully this will "jumpstart" the den. I have contacted the ADL for this Den and she has agreed to come on board and help get things going. My ACM and myself are going to be working on a project for them within the next couple of weeks. My son is NOT in this Den, (He's a WI) which makes it even more awkward. I feel like I never spend time with him because I'm always up trying to run things. He tells me he doesn't mind and wants me to continue, but sometimes I wonder. On that same note, but changing the subject at the same time: Leaders, recognize your sons. At last years Blue/Gold I asked all of the boys who had parents who were leaders or committee members to stand. I then thanked all of them for "Sharing Mom or Dad" with every other Scout in the Pack. We then gave them all a big round of applause. It meant the world to my son and to alot of the other boys too. This year, I'm going to step it up a notch and present them with...something. I just don't know what yet. (This message has been edited by jamist649)

The assistant Den Leader issue with our Pack is one that I've gone over and over with our Den Leaders with little results. I don't know if it's a control thing or if they just don't have interested parents. Nonetheless, I only have ONE ADL in the WHOLE pack! I think what I've decided to do is to do something like an open house during our Pinewood Derby Workshop that is coming up next month. The Den that needs the most help is going to be our Bears. I'm going to have to run thru the Bear book again and see what we can do during such an arrangement. Thanks for your replies everyone.

We are running into a bit of a problem with a few of our Scouts in our Pack and I'm wondering how to help. What has happened is due to the weather (we've had quite a bit of snow), schedule issues, a Den Leader who is having personal issues at home, at a myriad of other issues...we have about 6-7 Scouts in our Pack that are a good ways behind on achievements. It is genuinely NOT the Scout's fault (in my opinion) due to the fact that this isn't work that has been assigned and not done, it's work that hasn't even been addressed. What I'm (CM) thinking about doing is holding 2 or 3 make up or remedial muti-den meetings in conjuction with the Den Leaders. Basically I'll meet with each Scout individually and tell him what he needs to work on to achieve rank in time and in line with the other boys. Then, if possible, we can help him get a few of them done at the meeting. I have a few in the leadership/committee that are telling me that the Scout either "gets it or he don't", but I think at this age group we need to be more of an advocate than a drill instructor. Any thoughts or am I setting myself up for disappointment.

We donated them to a local elementary school in our county that maintains a "clothes closet" for needy children. It meant alot to the boys that thier donation will not only help LOCAL folks but local KIDS. The schools were thrilled to have them. They hardly ever kids underwear/socks so the need was large.

I wouldn't combine them. Just push Blue/Gold into March and give the boys more time to work on rank badges and other awards. Our Blue/Gold is in APRIL this year due to the fact that February is so darn busy! PWD and Blue and Gold in one day is too much and it seems to me that you would be stuffing a good portion of your whole year in one day.

Just wanted to update everybody on Sock Wars. I had asked several weeks back about anyone who had possibly done this with their Pack. Well, we did it last weekend and it was the MOST fun I believe we've ever had. We threw socks at each other for a solid hour! We had them build forts out of carboard and place them about 30 feet apart. We then marked off a big square in the floor and designated it as off limits. We then told them to go at it until we were out of "ammo" on both sides. I then blew the whistle and gave them 15 seconds to gather as many socks as they could and get back behind the forts. It was a blast. The parents got just as into it as the boys! The only downside was the fact that by the time we did our event, all of the socks needed washing due to the fact that they had rolled around on a concrete warehouse floor for an hour. I volunteered and personally laundered and refolded 150+ pair. I'll be donating them tomorrow. If you've never done this DO THIS! It's a wonderful, low-cost service project and event!

Wow, sounds tough. One of the first things I would do is do my best to get the unit funded...i.e. Fundraise. Most communities are very supportive of Scouts, if they know they are there. Once you have a little cash flow, you can buy handbooks, uniforms, supplies, etc. One major problem I see for this unit is lack of parental support. You mentioned that you had attemped a parent meeting with little success. This is not good, and there isn't a whole lot you can do to change it. One of the main things I have found with my Pack is communication. The parents you describe are probably not going to have the dayplanner marked up with appointments and flyers on the fridge. You're gonna have to call them and remind them of meetings. I like your idea of "every Sunday" that's easy enough to remember. But as small as your group is, you could probably make a weekly phone call just to ask "how's it going?" or "This week we did this, make sure he reads that...". This will do alot to keep the parents involved and informed. Our Pack had dwindled to small number before new leadership took over and quadrupled the number we have. We did this by making ourselves known. Everything we did, we sent to the local newspaper (small town). A week or two prior to Roundup at school, I sent a letter to the editor to the local newspaper again letting the community know who we were and what we were trying to do. I also gave "recruiter" strips to any Scouts who recruited a new boy.

We do a lock-in (We call it a "CampIN") during the winter months. This year's is scheduled for next month. The county gives us FREE use of the local Farmer's Market (heated,enclosed facility) since there isn't much going on in the winter there. You can also check other city/state owned facilities in you area. We pitch tents and set up "campsites" just like we were outdoors. Once set up, we do activities with Dens then bring the Pack together for a big activity. This year we're building forts and doing "sock wars". After that we're going to do a small carpentry project followed by a late night movie and popcorn. Can't wait!

We do spring recruitment in June around here and we start our program in August...or so. I was at a loss as to what to do with the new guys who are anxious to get started as opposed to the existing boys who are ready for a bit of a break. I like the idea...I'll be the oddball. LOL You can sign them up in June, do an introductory meeting or two and then put them in Dens in late July/early August. I may try this. Thanks!

Thinking of trying Sock Wars for the first time during our indoor "camp" next month. Can anyone give me some ideas about rules and methods of playing. I'm going to bring cardboard and let the boys make "forts" while the adults roll up the socks and place rubber bands on them. Do you have them "sit out" when they are hit, or do you just let them whack each other until they get tired of it? Do you keep score, award prizes, mark off areas or "safe" areas? Any info would be appreciated.