jambo

To Scouter 'KAHITS " Yours is not a unique problem in the annals of Scouting, Many on this site, had a lot of wisdom how to solve your dilemma, and who knows it may work for you ? Let me tell you in a nutshell how I was able to get 45 boys in 2 month. Here is what I did: A...our parish priest, who was an ex scout, asked all parish organizations to assist me in recruiting scout age boys. B...From old troop rosters I was able to get 12( out of 60 ) alumni to assist me in running recruiting tables at supermarkets. C...Went to the council for assistance. at first they were reluctant, and tried to shove this off to the district and etc. I told them I will go the press, and explain the whole situation. In 3 weeks they went to a few public schools, with a recruiting teams ( with my senior scouts ) and we received ( 30 )return interest slips. D...Went to our local OA chapter to assist in distributing flyers at bus Stations, corner streets, and etc. C...We used bribery techniques as ( pocket knives, free overnight hike, picca party with a slide presentation, and motivational speeches to the Scouts and parents. All this worked in our favor, We pulled in 70 boys at first, we lost some who did not care in joining. But the rest really wanted the Scout program. If some of my ideas will work for you ...that is great...otherwise brainstorm some of your own. " Keep it simple , make it fun " three cheers to Scouting, jambo

EAGLE69...I agree with you that today's OA has been watered down , and the interest in it has dwindled. We have to analyze to see why this happened, and why is it still continuing ? The way I see it, it is the meddling of our National council fearing that OA chapters would become to powerful, and would usurp the Boy Scout philosophy, which basically is discouraging growth of renegade organization. An example : ( An OA chapter which was very successful. It had the best Indian dance team,had a large membership of Scouts and adults. Had their own bus,their own quartermaster with tents, cooking equipment and et. ( They would lend this equipment to underprivileged troops,or provide bus transportation , so the scouts could experience camping ) They had 5 acre of land , with a hunting type cabin, where they had their meetings and socials, and would rent out to troops. Every boy and adult was looking to join this OA Chapter.They had donations of money coming to the chapter and not to the council ..... Guess what ?.... The Boy Scouts of America, Inc. Decided to to disband this, confiscated their property and the bus...claiming that ,it does not conform to the " by laws of the BSA, Inc. ", all troop property technically belongs to the BSA, Inc. At first there was a lot of fight by the adult members to keep it together , parents and Scouts. But, in order not to ruin the reputation of Scouting, Every one left..and this chapter became a mediocre , " do nothing " OA chapter. This is a sad commentary...and I am sorry I had to bring this up. Keep that Scouting spirit, Jambo

Beaver,it is great that this subject is stimulating...otherwise we would all be 'couch patotoes " ? ,..... wathing our violent TV shows (ha,ha,)..One of the things, our present leaders should consider,if we want a midiocre unit, or "an active,interesting, progressive, adventureous ... etc. Troop ? What use is having 40 boys in your scouting group, and withing 3 month you lose 50% ? Your boy run program is not working ! That is where preferably experienced adult leadership should step in and safe the situation. Other wise the boys might be joining a baseball team. where it is run by the coaches, and not by the boys. " Keep it simple and make it fun " jambo

Thanks for inviting me, " Scoutnut " ,to the council fire. I must have attended 100 of them , in this country, and many internationally. The topic for discussion is " Softening of Scouting " ? No , I am not bitter...but it hurts that we don't have unity or cooperation between the proffesionals and the vulenteers. It seems that all the " by-laws " writen not by the volunteers but by the " technicrots "...administrative beurocrats, who some times know very little of scout principals, nor the spirit .The main subject of our organization , we are dealing with.is " the boy/youth of America ". Have they ever polled the the active scoutleaders who are in the trenches . of their opinion ? The National council has to recruit scout minded people, in order to serve this movement properly. Is this a dictoship/autocracy ? or should it not be run on democratic principals, the way we try to teach our PLC/Troop. Here is to our FORUM !...may it live for a long time. jambo

...I don't want to rehash this over and over. You have read the other comments on this site, as it is prescribed by the National Council, who in my opinion is very much out of touch in Scouting philosophy ! But, adminstratively they are real proffesionals. I believe Scouting in the unit ,should be run by the dedicated Scoutmaster/ scout leaders in betterement of the program ...and leave the politics out of Scouting. I think, Paden Powell, the founder of Scouting would not like what he sees, if he woould be alive today. It is for the boy that we as adults are in Scouting.... "It's a game for the boy, but a job for the adult leaders". Good and happy Scouting. jambo

In respond to 'jip': Your point of view is appreciated, but in reality one should observe that about 80 % of PLC, so called " boy run " troopa are a dismal failure. The other ones are successful is becouse they have experienced, motivated, resourcefull,imginative adult leadership who know how to guide/suggest and to SPL, how to organize and execute the Scouting program. It seems you have to learn a lot.Just experimenting , sometimes does not work, becouse boys will ussualy leave the unit, when they see that PLC/troop is not ineresting nor active. This could be the way you lose new boys if you hold on to much to the principal of " boy run troops "...I could go on for ever on this subject...but, you will learn , like I did...the hard way. Good Scouting to you. jambo

I sympethize with your concern. Welcome to the politics of Scouting. Some where in your training, you were told that the Chairman has the power to remove the SM,? Therfore, you assumes you were in charge?? The way I see it, you had no right to command the Scoutmaster,while he was in an active role with his Scouts.. The scoutmaster is in charge of his SPL. And the SPL is in charge of his PLs . The CC has control at his commitee meetings, and may then question the troop leadership, at that time,.. If this was in at the summer camp.?Then this could have been the camp directors job to inform SM of the infraction of the camp rules. I think the Scoutmaster is the one who trains and runs the program in the unit. The boys have to respect the adult leaders. If you have a personality conflict, then my suggestion is to leave the unit, and let the SM run the unit, the way he was trained. ( Do they have this now, ,in the adult training courses ?) Jambo

I see that 'Kbjra', was most likely trained by our latest national guide lines, "How to run a Troop ", which seems not to be very successful, the way I have observed it ..It seems to me that most of the old time scoutmasters , would not agree with our latest training methodology. One of the biggest role of a Scoutmaster is not to be just a consultant to a SPL, but to be able to guide and lead this boy leader, and be able to train PL's on on their functions. National has set up this " so called boy run units " as to curtail some of entusiasm and success of the program. I remember my days as a SM, we had a very loud and boisterious PLC meetings. Where I motivated my boys ,that "nothing is immposible",if they only try . On occasion, I had to step in ,to calm the whole situation down. And I , as a SM had the last word !. We were the only troop in the council that traveled Internationaly.( we grew in membership ),even to the objection of our district/council. All because our PLC members wanted to do that. Remember, you as a SPLs , that your Scoutmaster is not a log sitting in the corner just observing you ,?He is the spark that will ignite your program, so listen to his guidence/sugestions ...or other wise you will become just a mediocre " boys club " and not an adventures Scouting unit. I got ago...good Scouting to you all...jambo

Dan, I respect your opinion on not agreeing with me,!!! but I am guessing,I am much older then you. I am only now active with the Troop on consulting basis. And,I try to give suggestions, but mostly , I stay out of the way. I do occasionaly conduct First Aid Merit badge course, Electronis and etc. But, having the experience of running a very successful troop, it hurts me to see the softening,and twindelling of Scouting in USA. Until , my good Lord will permit to live a bid longer ? I will try to contribute some of my elderly wisdom to this Scouter Forum. Keep on Scouting. Jambo

Dear Lisa, I certainly liked your commentary, and I am glad that we have people like you, who still try to get Scouting program a bit better. My beef is with the National,Regional and the Local council. It seems they are not assisting people like you in recruitment, advancement , realistic training of new leaders...I think you know what I am saying. Just speak to most the volunteer Scout Leaders at a round table, and you get similar concerns from them. Sorry ,I have to run, and I am glad you are still in the trenches trying your best. Jambo

Very interesting topic, EAMOM. AS USUAL ! One wonders why USA, which has the largest Scout orginization in the world , has a difficulty even to meet the minimum quata for the American contingent at the World Jamboree ? Is it poor planing on the proffesional level, no motivation or adverising,no enthusiasm created , to expensive for an average boy in Scouting ?( $ 4000 plus $1000 for spending money ),or is it that Scouting is dying a slow death ? I think it is all of them. I received a 'RUMOR', from a friend who is high in profesional executive level ( can not disclose his name, for he will be fired ! He has a family to support ! ) He told me there are large donations coming into BSA inc, in support of scouts and leaders who have difficulty in raising money to attend the World Jamboree. Where is this money ? Why is this money not allocated to the needy Scout/Leaders ? There should be no dificulty for a qualified Scout to attend this worth while trip. When I was at Kandersteg, Switzerland lasr year, I was told by the (Russian, Polish, swedish, Austrian Scout leaders, and etc, ) how they are financing their trip from donations received from Churches, Mc Donald company of Europe, Mercdes Benc and etc. Where and why is our National Council hiding these donations. Let me stop, before I go to far. Good Scouting ...jambo

That is great., Dan ! That is what Scouting is all about. We need your type of leadership in Scouting of today, but unfortunately 80% are not having this, and that is the reason ?. it seems to me Scouting in USA, is not flurishing, sorry to say. It seems to me, there are only a few of you left...a dying out generation. The National, Regional and the local councils have not even realized this problem. They have set this ( business adminstrative instuctional agenda ) at (Fast track/basic training/ woodbadge ) training courses wich is outdated and mostly useless .( Who, cares about sex abuse ? every one knows it, and it did not stop it ) Therefore new inexperienced leaders are not able to run their units successfuly,or properly . Let me get the heck out, and run ,,,I am going to write a book soon ! (ha,ha) jambo

I assume you are a SPL, who is running this PLC meeting.? I am glad that you are searhing for the answers, in order to better your unit . I read here many suggestions that are realy good and very constructive, and others are just stupid ...I am not going to repeat them. But, the fault here is with the out dated training agenda,and not you !( which the adults get at their basic/woodbage courses ). The problem, the way I see it , is the lack of proper experienced SM guidence, and etc. You, " its me ' are learning the hard way. I have comented on this, in the other previous forums sites. SPL leader seem's to run the Troop ? , but he must have the proper guidence from an ' EXPERIENCED IN SCOUTING ' Scoutmaster , who can educate, teach and let you run the unit properly. You never know, some times in the future you also might be a Scoutmaster, like 'Paden Powell ', ha,ha,...I got to go...good Scouting to you !...jambo.

Dear Lisa, I hope that is your name? And , congratulations...having your son receiving the Eagle rank. Respectfully , I feel you are not in the trenches of Scouting, as I was and still am . It seems you don't see the entire picture. You site only a small success story, but the reality is, that todays Scouting is slowely diminishing. Let me sight you some examples ( I was trying to recruit boys in our neighborhood school ! I was told that this can not be done, since we had to give the same privilage to the basketball, chess club, and etc. When I confronted the issue, I was told that Scouting is the same as any other youth orginization ) ( When I wanted some cub scouts who left their units, to join the Troop , I was told by the boys ,that they had all the scouting they wanted or needed !They said : "We went on hikes, summer camp, we played games...we don't need to join a troop...we had all the scouting we need !" ) It is good to be optimistic ! But, I want this trend to reverse ....I have to go...you can read some of the other oppinions on this forum, later...Thanks for your comments. Jambo

I agree that Eagle rank, is not what Scouting is all about ! I have seen Troops that basialy manufacture Eagle Scouts. Their entire program is set to make as many as possible, and then they brag at the round table, what a great troop they have. But, the down fall is their boys would not stay more then three years or so. While in my unit, we had the majority remain practically to 17 years of age,and enjoying it. We formed explorer posts, and Senior Scout patrols, JASMS, and some became ASM's. The troop eventualy was run by one of mine Assistant Scoutmaster, copying my methodology of Scouting, and they today are a success, even with our controversial attitutes in Scouting. Let me stop, see ya leter. Jambo ( PS, I had 21 Eagle scouts, within 21 years )

Great to get, to know a lot of you old timers in Scouting. It is very sad that the old generation of "Paden Powell" boys are taking that trail into the sky, and their wisdom will be only read in past historical libraries. The new leaders of this great movement, should listen and learn .There is nothing that 70 years of experience can be replaced by books, or traning courses. I hope my fellow SCOUTERS, you don't mind if I contribute my five cents to this Internet of ideas. I remain, Yours still in Scouting, jambo

Yes, Scouting will be dying out, in the near future. Scouting to an average " joe shmo " is just a silly youth organization, as bowling, ping pong, and etc. The National Council is not doing anything worth while to advertise Scouting , what it realy should be, portrait as. You would think they would have some sort influence in holywood or TV media, to produce " SCOUTING IN ACTION ". This TV program or a movie ,would motivate our youth and our parents. and maybe the Scout movment would gain some respect. During so called 'Scout week ' in February did you notice TV coverage of that event ? I have not even seen one ! or why is there no coverage of the World Jamboree, but our local crime get's the spot light all the time ? Let me stop now, before I write a book. Follow my user name for more of my oppinions. Jambo

Scouter Gunny,...No there is no road map ,per say. You have to find some college kids,or ex military persons, or an enthusiastic alumni of Scouting. Then you inform them not to take the theory of Scouting portion of the training ,but, the "show and do " Let them get books from the library on Baden Powell's Scouting for boys. Use your own initiative , resources, and imaginative skills. Visit a few successful units, to get ideas how best to run a well organized outfit. You must like boys , motivate them all the time., and be able to get to their level. Guide them along, and don't tell them all the time that is a " boy run troop " Be adventures in Monthly themes, and don't always use the one in 'Scouting magazine ", they are very dull. Sorry I have to run. Read my other concerns. Jambo

Sorry to see that you have problems running your Troop. It is not your fault ....but the BSA inc. The council should get recruiting done in your local school, instead of running financial campaign for themselves. Get some alumni of your unit to come back to help you organize and lead the unit. Good Scouting to you. Watch my other inputs, you might get ideas how to improve. Sorry...I have to run. Jambo

I am glad that you are still in Scouting. I was in the same delama as you...but I was able to solve the problems, no thanks to all the commisioners, and training courses. You have to be creative ! Use only the method of Scouting that will work for you...chuck the rest of it. Make sure you choose the commitee, and not the commitee governs your troop. Keep the committee at the prescribed minimum, And choose the parents, or men you can get along with and support your program,.... and not the one's who will only question your motives. I learned one principal...KEEP IT SIMPLE AND MAKE IT FUN...What use is scouting, if the boy does not stay with your unit. I was able to build my unit from 10 boys to over 40 boys. I evetuely had twenty eagle scouts, and some say the best run Troop in the council. Becouse, I used Paden Powel theory and methodology, and not this nonesense which they promote in our basic training course and , sorry to say even in our woodbadge. Be critical,and open minded and keep the commisioners at a distance. Most of them are ussualy a waist . Sorry, I could write a book...must run and run ! (ha,ha). Good luck and keep on Scouting. Jambo