Its Me

Went there two summers ago and did back country and communitee campground camping. I could go back every year just to see new parts. When you arrive scout out a ranger and check when the best time to see wolves are. When we were there it was early in the morning in the North-East corner of the park in Lamar valley. The hike to the Yellow Stone river along Deer Foot trail(?) was really neat as you started in open countrty and ended at the river in thick forest. The only animal we didn't see was a pronged sheep. All the rest wolves, grizzles, elk, moose, coyote, deer, buffalo we saw.

Bob you appear to have diverging concepts. One is for the BSA to take on more responsibility for traininng and running the units, while leaving the CO with all the liabilty. If our concept is to encourage the CO to get more involved then expect more customiztion of the porgram. If the BSA gets more involve then expect less involvement by the CO.

Here is why I like the Win All You Can game. The game tourments the poor soles behind the card flasher who must decide to whose allegence he will subscribe. What a great parallel to what a youth must go through every day. Unlike adults, a child's identity is not yet solidified. So he/she is torn by things like "do I go with this group or that group? Do I hold strong to my beliefs, or do as my peers/patrol wants? The men and women who play the game are torn. One from my patrol almost walked out and left the program. An argument between the patrols even erupted. Why did I like all this? Because it was essential for me (us) to recognize that a youth is in unchartered waters. I could have read five books and come to the same conclusion that the game taught me in 30 minutes. I know its a tough lesson to learn, but I'll be darned if that leeson wasn't a life changing lesson. So many things in Wood Badge look like one thing when in facty they are another. (This message has been edited by Its Me)

Take your boy's scout book and bring it with you the to the first weekend's meetings. We never had time to return to our camp once the day got started. The book will be needed to look for patrol project ideas and Ticket items and concepts.(This message has been edited by Its Me)

How dare you all say disparaging remarks about the American breakfast icon known as POPTART. Seriously, there is nothing wrong with eating poptarts for breakfast while camping. There is no prep or cleanup and it gets you back on the trail faster. Now don't get me wrong I have my shave of cast iron cookware in my camping bins, but traveling light has some distinct advantages. At woodbadge we were supposed to be pretending to be back packing anyway so food choices could have been geared that way. I will confess that three coolers and a fully loaded 8'x10' trailer brought to our campsite for six woodbadgers indicated otherwise. My kids are young, all three are under the age of 12. So I can't compare directly to the older youths of 16-17. But my kids are far less food snobbish than I am. The cubs I am around could eat cold cereal fro dinner and consider it a treat. So for Poptart lovers everywhere viva-le instant pastry!

Least favorite parts I would have to say I did not see the value in either movie, October Sky or Mr Holland's Opus. I am not sure that movies belong in this course. I liked that concept of forming patrols and seeing the issues as a youth would see them. For this reason, I liked the Win All You Can game. The first weekend had twice the benefit of the second weekend. By the second weekend the project has been completed, the meal plan is done and you either have developed a patrol or not. Our patrol guide was great. Out of the eight patrols, I would say that 7 looked like they were a real asset.

I will second the 12" & Deep, Dutch oven by Lodge. It appears to be the Standard barer(sp) of Dutch Ovens. Nealy all recipes are based on this size. Bigger isn't worth it unless you know exactly what you will cooking. I think you would be better off to get two Dutch Ovens than one giant Dutch Oven. Two dutch oven will cook faster and allow for different meals. I bought mine on-line from Cabelas and even with shipping it was still cheaper than any one else.

My DE saw me at a recent campout and suggested that I write him a letter requesting training at Philmont. I had met him before but to consider myself an insider would be a strecth. A big strecth. I deferred his offer to another summer, as I was taking wood badge this year and my vacation time is limited. So I don't think its that hard.

Ed's logic is right on. The floor becomes lost when one starts saying the government if funding a religion. Its preposterous to consider a tax break for a religious youth group as the direct establishment by the government of a religion. For me that is a giant leap. And once the ACLU wins the direct funding they will argue that the BSA cannot use public lands, parks or roads because the said use of these properties is the establishment of religion. BSA is a legal organization and as such has the right to petition i.e. solicit the government for funding. The government has the right to grant funding to any legal entity based the greatest good and use that this funding will bring. A youth group with few paid staffers thousands of volunteers and millions of youths seems like a good use of public fund.

Tuna fish in the foil complete with crackers and mayonnaise has worked for us. Cheap Manchurian noodle soup. Easy Mac-n-Cheese is another good economical choice. For back packing a stove, a spork and a SS Cup is pretty much your entire kitchen. I like those cheap Wal-mart SS cups over any I have seen at REI and the likes. Back packing food is pretty much just heat water and rehydrate. No cans or even those microwave ready made meal as they add too much weight, but I bet you knew that. I like to add dehydrated S-hitake mushrooms to the Lipton ready-mades and other meals. It just adds some character to the meals. The Mountain House meals are very tasty but a tad on the expensive side for youths. Grits for the southerners and oatmeal for the northerners make for a good breakfast. And of course Folgers pouch coffee packets for the adults. For me the staple in-between meal snacks during hiking are beef jerky and snicker bars. Yummy! REI and Campmor both have huge selections of back packing food. Even dehydrated ice-cream sandwiches. Can I come? (This message has been edited by Its Me)

To my detractors I can say that I run a solid den filled with energy, enthusism and learning without using the program helps. Our pack seems more den focused than others as the CC has little input into the running of our dens. She is a great person and in my opinion does a fantastic job running the pack. To the committee control freaks out there we are both glad we do not share the same pack. 5570xr2, I don't know why your pack is suffering. The program helps and unifying the pack and den meetings will likely not be enough. Scouting should fun with a purpose and the helps just aren't going to be able to stop the slide. The only thing I may recommend is the great outdoors. Get the dens to have more outdoor based activities, have more pack outdoor events. You know everyone seems to likes hiking. And email, email 4 weeks in advance, then a week and maybe even the day before. Its marketing for sure but its effective at getting turn out. Happy trails Its Me

As an adult leader can you wear a patrol batch e.g. Fox, Bobwhite on your everyday leader's shirts?

hehehehe Fotoscout I am sorry about that. I was in a hurry and the edit feature has now timed out. For the record, I agree with Fotoscout's "assessment".

Fotoscout, I agree with your assment. I would take it a little further in the way the campsite is reserved. If I said we are getting a group of campsites at High-N-Dry State Park and you have to see me for a campsite number. That places different families at different sites. Now maybe two families could share a single site but the distance between campsites would prohibit group cooking or certainly restrict it. But if I said we are getting the youth campsite at High-N-Dry and I expect dens to stay together, then the dens should do meals together.

The den follows the program as outlined in the specific rank book. You want to pick and choose the particular elements that a den should be doing? As a den leader I would tell you to take a hike. The parents, the boys and I determine which elements of the program we will complete to meet rank requirements. I beleive it is the den leaders responsibilty to lead the youths through the program. Whether that is setting up a den/requirement or scheduling other parents to take on a den meeting/requirement. Cohesion of the pack will occur through solid and cohesive dens. Not vice-versa.

The thing about wood badge is that although you all see and do the same things everyone walks away with an individual experience and individual ticket.

Some adults have no problem getting the training and accepting the responsibility. Others run from it. Example: If the safe swim course is offered in a ten minute online course, and we have a campout next to a large body of water, why wouldn't the adults (not just guys in tan shirts) take the course. Why won't some of the leaders take the online course? I suspect two reasons 1) Because if they don't know, then they didn't break any rules 2) Because they don't want to be held responsible for kids that are not their own. What say you?

A little off topic. We have our Blue and Gold in mid April and I prefer it then over February. The latter date gives us more time to complete requirements. Allows kids who have missed a den meeting to catch up. And this year we will have a campout in early May and a den party at the end of May. As a den we met at least once a month during the summer always at a park or similar venue. Our pack had summer outings as well but these were not well attended.

For our up comming pack campout we have asked dens to do their own meals. Is this too much to expect from our den leaders? Should we ask den leaders to submit a meal paln prior to the campout? Should we conduct a campout meal planning pakc night?

Just curious. Have you used the patrol method in the business world? How does it fit?

Wood popcicle sticks work very well have some on hand. I excepted any animal carved in soap. The quality of the carving is not as important as the safe handling of the knife.

I will offer this also, besides the small craft advisory and a canoe fits this description the second failure was an emergency action plan. No I did not know that 911 would not work outside your home cell phone area. I am not sure that is true. The report says the wife in Georgia was directed to call 911 and of course she would get her local police. He did not summon rescue until he lost flashlight contact with the wayward canoe. Also only then did the go search for that canoe. In OSHA, the communication system that will be used to call for rescue must be verified prior to entering a hazardous space. Why was the leader only able to make one 20 second phone call? Was he out of range? Battery? Did he wait too long to summon rescue?

[besides bad weather what went wrong?] Stranded teens feared for lives Darlington students tell of their rescue from the Gulf of Mexico at 3 a.m. Sunday morning. 03/02/05 By Matt Tuck, Rome News-Tribune Staff Writer What would you do if you were on a boat, drifting in darkness on the open sea, miles from civilization, cold, wondering about two of your friends who were alone in turbulent waters? Darlington senior Matthew Payne, Rome, said he came to grips with his mortality and focused his attention on helping his friends. I basically had come to the realization that we were all in very real danger and I might not make it back. For some reason, I was OK with that, but I was angry that I wouldnt be going alone, he said. I knew we had to do everything possible to stay together and find Sean and Clay. Those two boys were never seen again alive. Payne and seven other Darlington students, along with guide Steve Hall, an English teacher and girls soccer coach at the school, and Bryan Evans, assistant boys soccer coach and house duty staff member, took a paddling trip this past weekend into the Gulf of Mexico that turned deadly. Freshmen Clay McKemie, 15, Rome, and Sean Wilkinson, 14, Acworth, got separated from the group late Saturday. Their bodies were found Monday morning. Junior Leslie Beninato, senior Adam Moody, senior Sarah Fox, sophomore Jenni Ryan and freshman Christine Hatton also went on the trip. Payne said they put their canoes, kayaks and a motorized catamaran, or cataraft, in the water at the mouth of the Suwannee River on Saturday. It was close to 3 oclock, and the skies were clear, he said. When it had gotten too far to go back, it got dark. So we kept going. ... Then the wind picked up, and we started drifting away from land. I guess Mother Nature had it in for us that night, Payne said. Although the National Weather Service had issued an advisory Saturday morning warning paddlers, Payne said they did not know the weather was going to take such a turn for the worse. Hall, who was affectionately known as Meester, and Evans then started lashing the boats to the catamaran, after its engine had died. The canoes, Payne explained, had been spread apart during the trip to Coon Island, about a mile off the coast. The canoe Clay and Sean were in got separated from the group, Payne said. We waited on them, but they never caught up, he said. As darkness descended, Payne said he and other students flashed lights back and forth between them and the canoe, until the light from the canoe slowly faded away. I wish things had turned out differently. ... This has really shaken me up. Its going to be a long time before I get over this, Payne said. While Evans and five of the students stayed in the raft, Hall and Adam Moody set out to search for the missing boys and try for a cell phone signal. After that, there was nothing to do but wait, Payne said. Some of us started hallucinating. ... I was hearing rap music over the waves. I hallucinated about seeing Jerry Garcia and the Grateful Dead dancing bears, Beninato, a Roman, said. During the night and into early Sunday morning, the catamaran ropes loosened, and water started rushing into the vessel where Payne was sitting, Beninato said. We heard a whiff kind of sound, she said. I kept telling him he had to move and he had to lie on the bottom of the canoe (that was lashed to the catamaran). Although Payne said he knew the water temperature was colder than the air, it still felt warm. Then I realized, My God, Im going into shock, he said. Then all the girls and Mr. Evans kept talking to me to keep me awake. ... I owe everyone in that raft my life. For hours, they sat in the craft, talking to each other and wondering if they would ever make it home. Then, 7 miles from the shore, came what Payne described as the most beautiful sight Id ever seen, as a Coast Guard helicopter spotted them. At first, I wasnt sure if thats what I was hearing. I thought I was hallucinating again. Then hearing those blades and seeing that helicopter, ... it was beautiful, he said. We saw a light in the distance, Beninato said. Wed see it go left and right, then go under the horizon. ... Then we saw it reappear ... and stay in the middle, so I knew it was getting closer. Then the light hits us, and it circled around us for about 10 minutes. They were rescued by the Coast Guard around 3 a.m. Sunday. Hall and Moody were rescued soon afterward. The rescue was made possible by a five-second phone call, when Hall was able to get a signal to his wife, Christina, who was in Rome. Without that call, wed have been stuck, and no one would have known we were in danger, Beninato said. Meester had to make a decision ... and try for a cell phone signal. He made a very good decision. Meanwhile, officials with the Jacksonville, Fla., Medical Examiners Office have still not determined how the boys died. Seans funeral service will be held at 11 a.m. Friday at the Wildwood Baptist Church in Acworth. The family will receive friends from 2 to 4 p.m. and from 6 to 9 p.m. Thursday. Daniels Funeral Home has charge of Clays service. Arrangements were incomplete Tuesday. 911-TRANSCRIPT EXCERPTS The following is a portion of Floyd County 911 recordings of conversations between Christina Hall, dispatchers and Coast Guard officials. Halls husband Steve led the paddling trip into the Gulf of Mexico this past weekend: Saturday, Feb. 26 11:09 p.m. Dispatcher: Floyd County 911 Hall: I called earlier trying to get 911 in Suwannee, Fla. Im here in Rome. Dispatcher: Yes, maam. Hall: And, nobody can help me. I mean, Ive got a group of people floating in canoes. Theyre just out adrift. Ive called 411 a million times. They cant get the sheriffs office, and every time I call the sheriffs office they say, If this is an emergency, call 911, and I cant call 911 in Suwannee, Fla., because Im here. Dispatcher: OK, hold on. Dispatcher: Maam? Hall: Yes? Dispatcher: We have no contact at all with Florida. ... Theyre stuck out in the middle of the ocean in a canoe? Hall: Yes. Dispatcher: Good grief. Hall: And hes got a Rome cell phone, so when he dials 911 nothing happens, ... and Ive tried the Coast Guard. I cant get a number for the Coast Guard. ... Ive tried Dixie County, and the sheriffs office is closed, and they say, If this is an emergency, dial 911. See, I cant get anybody. Its shocking to me that I cant. Ive been trying for 30 minutes to get a policeman in Florida, and I cant. Dispatcher: What are their names, and where are they? Do they know where they are? Do they have coordinates or anything? Hall: They have some basic coordinates, yes, they do. Dispatcher: Can you give them to me? Hall: Their basic coordinates are, they are in between Coon Island and Cat Island and theyre in canoes. They had a motor, but the motor stopped. Dispatcher: And who are they? Hall: Steve Hall is the guide thats with them. ... Theres huge winds, theres big waves, and Im afraid the boats are going to capsize. Weve got to get some kind of help. Saturday, Feb. 26 11:19 p.m. Coast Guard: Can I help you? Dispatcher: Hi, this is Vicki from 911 in Rome, Ga. I have a subject here that has relatives that are stranded out in the Gulf of Mexico between Coon and Cat islands, and this is the only number I could get through the operator that was a working number. Coast Guard: Where did you say they were stranded at? Dispatcher: Near Suwannee, Fla., I think its Dixie County and its between Coon and Cat islands. Theyre stuck out there in rowboats, and the winds and the waves are getting big, ... and the person thats out there is a Steve Hall, ... and if you could pursue that. Youre my last hope I guess. Coast Guard: Are they on the island? Dispatcher: No, theyre out in the water in canoes and a boat. I think maybe two canoes and a boat. Coast Guard: OK, do you have a description of the boat or anything? Dispatcher: No, if you could hold on, Ive got her on the other line. She might have. Coast Guard: Sure. Dispatcher: Hey, Ive got the Coast Guard on the line. Can you give me a description of the boat? Hall: Yeah, theres a cataraft and then canoes. Dispatcher: How many canoes? Hall: Theres probably, I think there were about four canoes, but I think two of them got separated. And theyre hoping that the two that got separated made it to Cat Island. Dispatcher: OK. Hall: But the ones that are adrift are between Coon and Cat islands, but they said its really windy. Dispatcher: Are they drifting out to sea or in? Hall: They must be drifting out or else theyd have hit land somewhere. So they must be drifting out, and he said the swells are getting ... Dispatcher: OK, Ive got them on the other line, hold on for me, OK? Hall: Thank you Dispatcher: Sir? Coast Guard: Hello? Dispatcher: She said they have a cataraft, ... and theres four canoes. Two have gotten separated from them, and they hope they made it to Cat Island. But the waves and all have gotten up. They have no motor, so they are, you know, drifting probably in the wrong direction. Coast Guard: Four canoes and one catamaran? Shes on the other line with you? Dispatcher: Uh-huh. Coast Guard: And shes the one with all the information? ... Tell her Im going to call her on the other line. Dispatcher: All right, Ill hang up. Thank you so much. The Coast Guards going to call you (Hall), OK? Hall: OK, thank you. http://news.mywebpal.com/partners/680/public/news614388.html

I also have a Coleman Exponent stove that uses PowerMax fuel from Coleman. I now have two single burners Coleman Exponets. We use them for pakc packing and car camping. They do a great job heating pots of noddles, coffe pots and skillet cooking. 20lbs of propane would last us from Webelos to Eagle. That just seems like so much weight. Here is the one I have two of. Notice a hose connects the cannister to the stove. This provides more stability than a direct attach. (sorry if this is so obvious) Coleman detached http://store.colemancampingstore.com/coexxpst.html Here is an ultralight back packing stove. It is designed to 1st be very light and 2nd heat a cup of water. It does both well. http://store.colemancampingstore.com/coexouf1ulst.html Also the powermax fuel comes in rycylcable aluminum cannisters. The drawback is that if you are flying no fuel can be transported in a carry-on or as checked luggae. Upon arrival you will find white gas as one of the most common fuels. 3lb propane cylinders next and then all the highbred propane/butane mixes.

SM: . Some boys become so obsessed with them that it distracts from the program. Its Me: We have program time and down time. During program times we agree that no card playing should take place. But after activities for the day have wound down a card game can bring the boys together. SM: Because the cards have value, it can create problems, with trading, loss, damage, and even theft. Its Me: Boys have their own personal equipment now and are free to trade with one another. It has not been an issue in our troop. And of course value is only true for Yu-Gi-Oh card not standard 52 card decks. SM: The cards (arguably) involve the occult. (If your CO is a church, this may be particularly important.) Its Me: Again we are only talking about Yu-Gi-Oh cards not standard cards. Is it rules or magic that says an Ace trumps a Jack. Same with the monster figures on Yu-Gi-Oh. The game is governed but the rules of play. Each character is assigned an attack value and defense value. I give the kids credit keeping track of all the scoring and gamemanship that goes on. SM: Only boys who have the cards can play, as opposed to regular cards. Its Me: I never knew a card game before is was taught to me. Kids love to teach each other games. Heck there are probably two dozen ways to play poker. Consider it a team building activity. And I'll play chess or checkers as soon as someone teaches me those games.