IM_Kathy

ok here's question... Held elections - SPL elected and he has boys come talk to them about if they want a position. Mother tells SPL that her kids need a position for their rank - he correctly tells her that the boys need to ask. So she tells boys to ask and they do. More boys asked than are needed for position. So SPL asks those wanting QM - will you be able to attend the upcoming campouts? To those wanting Librarian - will you be able to attend troop meetings? SPL took their answers and each scouts past history with doing their jobs when they had positions. Her boys did not get a position. How many of you out there will give a position because "a boy needs it for rank" even though they are only 14 and working on Eagle so has plenty of time? How many of you would support the SPL decision and let them know that they need to show that they are willing to work on improving their behavior and maybe they will get a position next time? Right now I think the mom will be pulling boys from the troop to a troop where they can be given a position. I told her I don't know if a troop would just take a boy and hand them a position. The boys do have attitude, behavior, and bullying issues so if they do go else where it does help me to not have to worry about signing their eagle papers. But I'm just curious how others would handle this situation.

our fundraisers boys get 60% troop gets 40% key to staying in the black is having treasurerer that keeps good records. when balances given it's $x in boys accounts and $x in troop account... troop only spends what is troop money. if something important is needing bought and there is not enough money in troop account then boys will do a special fundraiser where all the money goes toward that purchase.

as a survivor I'll give some advice... treat him same as any other scout... but be watchful! watch for change in moods they can change quickly - if parent/guardian is not present let them know how it changed and what was going on when the change happened as those are things that therapist and parents need to know as these can help with learning what triggers the boy. also be mindful of him developing inappropriate behavior - depending on the abuse he could now enjoy sexual behavior. while the majority of abused people actually do NOT become abusers themselves the introduction to sex at an early age can make them more curious and experimental than what is normal for their age. and as another person mentioned - if doing a pack/troop activity on recognizing abuse and such I would give a heads up to the parents. Even with me years after the abuse and many years of therapy I get triggered every time I go through Youth Protection Training! But I know most of my triggers and know what to do when I am - this boy may not yet.

dutch oven big meals... roast with veggies pork chops with green beans and carrots mexican lazagna quick meals... grilled bratwurst with baked beans and chips makes a nice lunch my favorite breakfast is scrambled aumlet if you want any recipes let me know

normally I would say don't judge just by 1 campout especially if it's a camporee, but WOW!!! the reason I say don't judge off a camporee is that it's not always the troops fault things get disorganized. For example we didn't get a schedule for our fall camporee until the SM SPL meeting that friday night. While I wasn't able to be there the leaders that were said that there was so much going on that the boys were constantly on the move as there were patrol games, troop games, and merit badges offered. Our area has been over filling camporees for a while now which is why our troop has gone to adults doing the cooking and boys help with clean up as much as they can - so there is no real duty roster. now a troop campout - patrols tent together, have their own cooking/eating area, have a duty roster which includes a patrol only activity and a skit or song for saturday night campfire for the patrol to do. The boys have planned ahead of time what and when the troop activity will be so they adjust their patrol stuff around that. Only thing that really gets interesting is when 1 patrol gets done with their activity before another and wants to join in - but patrol activity is JUST for those in THAT patrol sometimes that makes the one speed up sometimes the patrol that gets done first starts doing something constructive which is nice.

we teach both - we only award totin chip card because there are some merit badges at summer camp that require the scout to show their totin chip card. if boy has lost his card then he needs to buy a replacement at the trading post (not expensive) and we will sign it. If a boy has not earned it before his first summer camp (most have) it is taught by our older scouts on first day of summer camp.

we only cover cost for vehicle pulling trailer (if we are using trailer) since pulling the weight takes more gas. typically cost per boy is $20 that covers the site, their food budget, and adult food budget. Only time adults pay for anything is when it is for something special like skiing and such.

here they get mailed to Scout Master, which I'm currently in that position. I then bring the unopened letters to the boys eagle board for the members of the board to read. and to make sure I do not open them the boys address it to them C/O me or put down eagle letter on bottom corner of envelope.

with my sons first troop we had to really work hard to get them to transfer his account money to his new troop. their belief was that most who switched troops dropped shortly after and then the money would end up with that troop rather than them. Our final agreement was that once the boys (a few of his friends switched too) paid first summer camp payment they would transfer over the money. with my sons troop now (only the 1 troop change) we will transfer to another troop. the only time someone can get money out of account is when the family has paid for say philmont trip and there is over payment and a refund is given - treasurer puts it into their accounts and lets them know to come see them for refund check. Our fundraisers are 60% family account (we use family so it's easier with siblings and parents who are active) 40% troop account. When we have money left in a scout account we do it backwards - 60% goes in troop account and 40% goes in support family account (basically a scout account that we use to support those who need it) we have some uniforms to pass along and we've never been asked by anyone if they can use their money for buying uniform or equipment - though I think if someone did we would gather a committee meeting and decide on that.

troop uses tool box for 1st aid case keeps things organized and easy to get to very easy - kept right inside the trailer door. troop also has smaller kits to be taken on hikes and such. me personally I have my own 1st aid kit in my wilderness survival kit as well as a full kit in my vehicle.

wow - all my boys above 1st class have earned that paul bunyan award and didn't even know of such an award. just what are boys are expected to do as part of their learning: learn, teach, and use. I personally HATE the SM/ASM training that I was forced to take. For 1 thing the only thing I really learned was how NOT to teach anyone anything. You can't just stand their and talk. Use a powerpoint or hold up ropes and have people watch. My patrol had quite a few that were very experienced - it was a waste or our time. We had a few that were clueless. Yes it was those of us that were very experienced that took what we already knew and sat down with the clueless until they had it learned. But even then, have they gone home and kept practicing until it became natural for them? can they now just do without looking it up? and can they now teach it? And really all they were out for was for us to learn it - it didn't make sure we had it down well enough to teach. And knowing and ablity to teach can be totally different. And being able to teach can still vary depending on who you are teaching. A typical boy, no learning disabilities, enjoys scouts and outdoors, listens, and wants to learn isn't very hard to teach much to. But change any of those factors and you have to change way you go about it. and lets not even go into how trainers deal with leaders who themselves have special needs!!! Lets just say it was a miserable time for me, and am very thankful that a couple people from my patrol who did do their best to help out. to me the training is too much like how they are negatively changing scouting in total - to much of the sit and "learn" - one and done style... and not the learn, do, teach to really learn

what is the reason for the label of female leaders??? my cubbies over the year made bird houses, tool boxes (boys still have them and even see them carry their tools when helping at eagle projects), catapults, displays for their pinewood derby cars, mail holders, recipe holders, and my memory is forgetting a bunch of others I'm sure... and probably the most "female" was actually one of their favorites to do - they made stuff bags/laundry bags using sewing machine. they thought it was really cool. got to pick out their own fabric and did all their own sewing - was just watched over for safety

I have had a scout where I wasn't going to be signing his scout spirit section... I sat down with him and had him read the section that the requirement sends them too - it talks about how scout spirit is something that can be measured by the scout and by others and how it's something that's lived not just in uniform but outside of scouts too. Then I had him read the scout law with the explainations from his handbook and that when he got to one that he's not doing very good with to let me know. I had already picked out 3 that he wasn't following at all recently - he found 2. I told him my 3rd. I asked him if he felt he was following the scout law. I asked him if he felt I should sign that requirement. I asked him how he could improve. I told him that I would watch his behavior and when I was ready to sign that requirement off I would let him know. If he does not show improvement I will pull him aside again and talk again about how he is going to improve. if the scout was working on tenderfoot or possibly 2nd class I would've signed off but in doing so I would also comment that as he goes through to higher ranks he is expected to be a better example and that I would like to see improvement in this area.

ok I can see this with swimming, lifesaving, climbing, shotgun, and rifle. Where as a specific setting and training is required and a location has this and offers such a thing. for example - around here only place the boys can do shotgun or rifle is currently at summer camp. I go to a local shooting range myself and I asked the guys there what they are certified in and they meet BSA requirements so I asked them if I brought buy merit badge books would they read through them and see if they would be interested. And guess what - they are! Boy can contact and set up times - arrive with their gun, ammo, and parent (can buy ammo there too) and the range officer will work with them. They will have to pay the normal range hourly rate. We have loads of hunters that prefer to use their own guns, but are not allowed to bring to summer camp so this is great thing for them. As a swimming MBC myself - I will work with boys - in the winter we will go to indoor public pool. I will pay my own way in, but boy needs to pay his way in... I have had parents offer to pay my way too - it's not that big of a deal unless it's a full teach to swim that will take many, many trips - then I will let them especially if I know they can afford it. I guess I just don't understand needing to offer every single badge through this place. Is it that hard to find MBC in that area? and if so how did they find so many to work through this place?

to me it's unacceptable as a parent and as a SM. now given that - son's previous troop had hike and campout planned: boys were told to treat it like a backpacking trip - to carry the items that they needed. parents were told that it was a test to see how well the boys would do with this - to see if they would pack and carry what they needed. that their safety would be met so if they threw their sleeping bag into trailer they would be given that, or if they some how got wet and threw dry clothes in trailer they would be given them, but otherwise nothing was coming out of the trailer. Boys were given plastic sheeting and taught how to make their own shelter. parents were also told not to spill the beans... that not to worry boys would be taken care of. of all the scouts the ones that listened the best and did as told were the youngest scouts. They were exhausted after the 10 mile hike because of carrying their gear, but they were rewarded by having all that they needed when they arrived. BTW this troop hadn't backpacked before was a plop camping troop. we are no longer with this troop but this campout wasn't the reason. Parents knew - and actually boys knew they just didn't care to listen to the "carry all your items" as SM we have had to do some "plan B" changes - key in my mind is to not increase the risks, make sure safety comes first, making sure it meets the abilities of those there, and that all scout rules are followed.

our patrol boxes only hold plates, cups, silverware, mixing bowl, cutting board, and the like. stoves are kept out of any storage container and have own place on trailer shelving. lanterns have own box that is padded and safely holds all our lanters. we do have 1 lantern that is kept in single carry case for when we are not plopping and just need 1 lantern we have seperate totes that each hold: utensils, pots/pans, food items, etc... when we are not plop camping with trailer then patrols and their cook have list of what is needed and they go in and pull out what is needed from the totes and splits up for transporting. upon return from outing they put those items back where they belong. all totes are labled as well as the shelve as to which tote goes where. works very well for us

we've had similar issues in past... we've been working on building patrol bonds. patrol meetings - seperate them in room enough that they aren't distracted by other patrols at campouts - make sure each patrol has their own work station, each patrol does a patrol activity that people not in that patrol are not to participate in (can be a game, a hike, pioneering project, etc), each patrol puts on a skit or song at evening campfire. now when they have general free time they are still able to hang with who ever - we were quite surprised that this past campout they decided to all play football and the boys immediately said the teams were by patrol. So it is working!!!

one that stands out was a night I brought my son to the church to load up and head off for a campout... my son goes up to one of his buddies and his dad and asks if he could ride with them and I hear his buddy say "what your mom isn't coming? It's more fun when she's there." and he comes up to me and gives me a hug and is asking me to change my mind and come along. I couldn't go on that one as I had a conflict with girl scouts... plus at that time I wasn't SM so I wouldn't go on every campout just so my son could go on some without a parent.

>>> This kind of thing is obviously a goal set by adults, not boys

I remember when my son was a new crossover - troop was going to do a coffee can campout. as in all that they could have for cooking their own meals would have to fit and be stored in a coffee can (nothing to keep things cool and everything cooked over a cook fire with own mess kit). My son being new and not having cooked over fire but once before got home and figured out different things he would be able to take without needing kept cold and would fit - he then went to store with me and bought the different things he would need. Then each night he pulled out his mess kit and tried cooking one of his ideas each night over the grill (while he didn't use a wood fire it was best he could do at our place) and he learned a lot. He learned he better not do spaghetti because he kept spilling water when moving pan and that would put out fire, he learned what kind of foods he could haul without needing to keep cold, he learned what foods he could freeze and have thaw just in time. that began his love of cooking. every campout he would go around to the other patrols - ask what they cooked, how they cooked it, spices, and get a taste. I can't begin to count the things he tried at camp that he reproduced here at home or the things he first tried at home and then cooked on a campout. His patrol LOVES it when he was cook. And he's always watching ads and will plan his menu based on what's on sale and how he could stretch the food budget. How many patrols have BBQ ribs for supper??? and yep now at 16 he will cook full course meals for our family... he spent a day this summer cooking pork loin for our daughter's graduation party and all our neighbors were quite excited when we had left overs and went around delivering them all some extras.

Beavah - my comment on the cooking requirements taking 3 campouts was inreference to can it be done in 5 months. I'm assuming if doing it in 5 months they are doing the 1 and done. in my son's troop it can be done in 3 months though... first campout they are given a helping position in the meal - as they do this they are taught how to use the stoves and how to build a fire. they see what is cooked - told how they can use different methods to cook different styles (dutch over, foil packs, on the stove) the young scout is told to practice cooking at home - help out mom/dad and then do a couple of meals all on their own. And when they can cook at home they can cook on a campout. If the boy does this then next campout he's assistant and is showing that he's learned his stuff - older boys recommend a few things to try and recomment trying a few other things at home before next campout and that he can be cook then... and poof - 3 campouts, working at home in between and he's got it. do you expect your boys to do all their learning and working at scouts??? nope - teach something - they do it correctly - practice it at home - show me without needing any help. We've had a couple boys teaching lashings the last couple meetings - if the boys learning it just learn it at the meeting and don't keep practicing the skill at home they will not really learn it. Next campout they are making useful gadgets - so we will see how well they all have done... can't do it without looking at the book or getting older boys to help then they don't have it down and don't get it signed off.

we had this issue the first time our pack had blue and gold catered - after that we gave tickets to those that paid and they turned in their ticket when they came up for food. No tickets sold the day of - den leaders got numbers sold from their cubs and turned that over to the pack leader in charge. We also had a time stated for dinner and a time stated for awards and entertainment so that those that did not want to eat (or pay) could show up after the dinner for the awards and skits. Doing that with tickets and stated times made 100% difference and we kept doing it that way when we catered.

find out what the girls want - is easy answer, but if none of them have camped as a troop before then they have no real way to know if they would enjoy it or not. my girls didn't want to camp until we went and camped. we tented twice a year and cabined once - summer camp was totally up to them. the summer before our next year of camping in south dakota we camped 4 times as a troop that summer - we wanted to try out different tent arrangements for comfort and packing. And that was even as high schoolers. many have only family camped where they have to find their own fun to do while parents sit around play cards and have their drinks and many of those they have a tv dragged out of the trailer - so tenting and having everything dedicated to girls having fun can be a nice change for them.

actually I think the 10 activities would be easier to get done in the 5 months than doing all the other requirements. Only 3 need to be an overnight camping. what takes our scouts the longest is the cooking requirements. 1st class they are patrol cook, 2nd class they are patrol assistant cook, and tenderfoot they are used as a helper by their patrol. so that right there is 3 different campouts. if you have a patrol full of new scouts this could take some time - if you have a few patrols all with a couple of new scouts it goes smoother and will take about 3 campouts for each scout. it's the other requirements - even with a troop that builds a calendar to cover all those activities in 1 year it would get boring repeating those things over and over again. so a good mix is needed and even then it's up to the boy -- for instance we had a campout where boys could do their 5 mile hike or they could go fishing. was 50/50 - and at that time we weren't for certain when our next 5 miler would be though granted a boy could arrange to do it with some patrol buddies at any time, but boys that new don't usually jump up and do such things. our average is 20 months - just before their 2nd summer camp, but we have had some take 3 years due to their own choices in activities.

we had some crossovers whose parents used this for reason to have some MB during meetings. we tried a few. For me it was a few too many. biggest issue was the fact that they were doing badge A in which 5 boys needed and the rest had nothing to do - many just quit coming. we have now gone back to the way we've always done things and attendence has picked back up and the excitment has returned. As SM I show up 30 mins early every week and expect to stay 30 mins late - this allows any working on a badge to know that the room will be unlocked and they can get with their MBC then. The only thing we are still struggling with is a particular MBC that is giving the answers rather than having boys learn and tell the MBC.