imascouter

I like what several have already said.... no bylaws needed - use Cub Scout Leader Handbook; and not bylaws but rather procedures. When I was a CC I would send a group email to pack families with the highlights of committee meeting decisions. This became the reference point for new "rules" without having to publish something.

I echo Dsteele regarding the council and old books. I imagine that even if a council receives the books today that they will wait to sell off most of the old inventory before putting the new books out for sale. If I were a scouter wanting a new copy of one of these books I think I would try to order one through the 1-800 number on the catalog asking first if they have the new edition.

I see you have to order the cloth from these folks for $45? I suppose it is non-profit!? I have been making these out of paper (print flag on 8.5 x 11" paper) for about 5 years now. On the last fold I put a lanyard though it, then coat with Elmers glue. Coat and let dry several times. Put red, white, and blue beads on each end then tie together. Makes a great temporary recogntion to hand on the boys pocket as a reward for ... learning to fold flag, learning other flag related stuff, or participating in a color guard for an important event.

Here's something new I have not seen mentioned around here; Youth Protection Training online! Another Scouter told me about it the other night and I did not believe him. Checked it out myself. Although it does allow you to skim through the material, you do have to pass the test at the end (80%) to get certificate mailed to your council. I also think you may have to access it through a council link for it to work. This will be a good way to get those "I don't have time to go to another meeting" adults trained. http://www.scouting.org/pubs/ypt/ypt.jsp

Thanks for all the responses, I knew I could depend on all of you. In my article, I intend to cite this forum as one of my top three sources of excellent information. (Between actual manuals and networking with leaders at Roundtable.) To respond to a few here: KWC57 Funny you should mention it, I am writing about uniforming and will be looking for one of the annual forum discussions about whether a uniform is required next. FScouter The "travel in class A" was the actual rule I was looking for in my original post. Yes, I think it is accepted as "fact" most everywhere. Eamonn My phrase "district trainers" refers to the "staff" or regular volunteers of the District Training Chairman. I consider anyone who works two or more training events as staff each year as a "trainer." Case in point: I am guilty of having passed along hearsay as fact myself. I have told the YP every two years "rule," and the uniform in travel "rule." There may be one or two I am telling that I don't even know are not rules yet. It has not been a "stick to the syllabus" issue. It is common for new Scouters to ask questions of those whom they perceive as knowledgeable. (snicker) Some of the questions (as many of you know) have nothing to do with the current training at hand. Good up-and-coming leaders try to gain as much knowledge as possible, and they gobble it up from every source available. My intent will echo what several here have said, "if it's not in print, it's not a rule." Thanks for everyones input.

I found the link this morning: http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=23583#id_23608 Thanks for your help. Of course my interest is piqued regarding YPT for 2 years also.

I am currently working on a training document and one point I am trying to make is that not everything you hear from scout leaders, even district trainers, is correct. Much of it is what someone else told them, heresay, and that new leaders should also refer to manuals. To make my point, I would like to point out an example of a common misconception of the rules that is frequently taught by district leadership. A while back there was a discussion about if it was really a rule that you had to wear class A when traveling to and from events. I would like to find that thread again, or information about it. Most everyone knows this rule and would be surprized to see it proved wrong. (I think it is a good IDEA, but not actually a rule.) Where can I find this?

(I submit these for the local district newsletter, so hey, why not share here too!) I wrote this a few years back for a pack newsletter, but it is still valid today. It may be useful to you for encouraging scouting families not to drop out of scouting during the end of the year, or over the summer. Dividends of Scouting You could skip Scouting and do all the same things with your boy and save a little money. But, for many of us, a structured program makes it easier to get things done. As pitiful as it is, I know I would not spend as much time with my son if it were not for this program. Scouting helps me to plan to do purposeful things with my son. What is your son going to have when he finishes Scouting? Well, yes, once he learns to use a bowline knot, or square knot, he will use them even when he is very old. But more importantly, he will learn citizenship, teamwork, and leadership. I wont roll out the amazing statistics about how many presidents were scouts, or how many astronauts, or whatever. Instead, let me tell you about an older gentleman I met recently. He looked to be a retired man working as a grocery store bag boy for something to do. My wife and I were just leaving the cash register when he noticed our uniforms. I was a Scout, and a good one too, he told us. I still know my Scout Oath! Oh great I thought, now I am being cornered into listening to this guy go down memory lane. On my honor I will do my best, he began, To do my duty to God and my country, and obey the Scout Law. Now I was intrigued. He really did know it word for word after all this time. Now I stood in review, interested to hear him say the rest. To help other people at all times; To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight! He was grinning ear to ear with pride. I shook his hand and told him very good, as I imagined his Scoutmaster from many years ago might have and we departed. That kind man had never been president. I am pretty sure he was never an astronaut either. He might not have ever been a leader to anyone but his family, I dont know. But it was clear, Scouting had made an important impression in his life, and I bet he still lives by the Scout Oath. What will Scouting do for your son? One can only guess, but to be sure, it will be positive. We might have a young Mars explorer in our pack. Maybe the architect of world peace. Or just as important, a person respected as a helpful friend and neighbor in our community.

Thanks for your kind comments.

Yes, publications online, available for all to reference. CD would be nice, but online has an advantage. Not all parents would have the CD, but you could easily tell a parent, "yes it is a rule, and you can view it at www.bsapub.org/scoutmasterhandbook/outdoorprogram/safeswim If they go see it or not is another thing, but it gives them no excuse. Kinda like letting all parents come and vote at committee meetings... you can always say, "you had your chance two months ago when we made todays plans to have your say and change plans/policy/etc.

I would just like to add an additional comment to what I said earlier. If the boy can (and does) pass the test without aids, then I see no reason for him not to be able to use them as he pleases during fun swimming. If the boy tries to pass the test without them and can't then it means there is a strong potential for him to drown. (It will happen that these aids will get knocked off, leak, etc, during normal use.) After all, this is the spirit of the rules; to keep a boy out of danger. It is the spirit of a rule that should guide you in your interpretation of the rule. In the case of safety, it is important to be conservative in how this is addressed. As far as, "you'd have a bad scene if you kept one of my guys out on this basis." Uh, no I would not. If I am in charge, I am in charge, period. Responsible and capable adults do not give into parents who try to bully the leaders. I would however be pleased to shutdown completely, for safety reasons, any event I am in charge of until all participants and parents agree fully to my interpretation of the rules, or until those who supervise me find someone else to take over. Making sure a boy does not drown is very important.

Youngblood: Stick to your guns. If a boy can't swim in deep water without aids, then he has no business in the deep water! I believe you have taken the stance of a responsible adult and someone I could trust my son with. I do not know what the Irving, Texas interpretation of the rules is, but I suspect the "no aids" statement from G2SS is a strong clue! I would not argue to much about earning the swimming merit badge with aids while an instructor watched this specific boy ready to rescue him. But I don't think that same boy should be allowed in water over his head with only group supervision. IF, BSA's interpretation truly allows a boy in deep water, if he can only swim there with aids, THEN first, I can't be in charge, or anywhere close to that water as a responsible adult, AND I must WARN parents about that danger their son may choose to enter (w/ BSA's blessing) so they can make an informed decision for their family. I hope the many lurkers (folks who just read here, but do not post) will thoughtfully consider this and investigate this within their own units. I hope this is helpful.(This message has been edited by imascouter)

This from the Red Cross webpage at www.redcross.org: Red Cross and Boy Scouts Sign Historic Training Agreement Millions will be equipped with lifesaving techniques as the Boy Scouts become an authorized provider of Red Cross health and safety programs. An interesting read -- check it out!

FLIP2028 said, " . . . pocket knife on campouts? Any suggestions for one?" I recommend you DON'T choose any knife that is offered by Trails End Popcorn as a reward for sales. My son already owned a knife when he received one of these Trails End knives. He brought the knife to me and said, "I must have got a left-handed knife." I was mystified, "what?!" He said when he tried to cut that the dull side was where the sharp side should be. After inspecting the knife I found that of course it was cheaply made, but it was assembled correctly. The knife was just so dull that my 4th grade boy couldn't imagine that it had a sharp side.

Would one of you fine Scouters please pass the salt, pepper, and perhaps some of that salsa. I am hoping it will improve the taste of the crow being served here. Arrived in the mail today, one copy of the R&R, and one copy of the C&B. Guess all councils, districts, and paid Scouters are not alike. I am big enough to say when I was wrong. Ahem . . . I was wrong. As another follow up, Bob White was correct; nothing too much of interest in there for 99.9% of scouters.