Horizon

SeattlePoineer stated "He still thinks his bad behavior was justified. Of course that's common among those convinced that they are morally righteous. It is used to justify a lot of bad behavior. " That sentence describes the issue with this debate, regardless of the side.

I don't perceive any significant value in the Charter that we receive. If there WAS to be larger schism in Scouting, here our my top 3 things: - Eagle Scout. Lose this, and we lose a LOT. The Eagle is our brand, and serves to bring in a lot of parents (though sometimes with a price that we have all discussed). - Be Prepared. This too is unique to us. - Shared ownership of resources such as Council camps, Philmont, etc. Other aspects of our program are easily copied (and have been by other groups): Uniforms - easily duplicated Citizenship - no monopoly on that Outdoors, Patrol System, Org Chart - great system, but nothing trademarked

Our roundtables are HELD at an LDS Stake (please correct if my terminology is wrong). They also host many of our District meetings as well. The only conflict we have ever had was when my unit was kicked out of our week at summer camp because the LDS units wanted a 100% LDS unit summer camp week. I don't blame LDS for that - my issue is with how the Council dealt with our reservation.

False moral equivalence has been part of this debate for awhile. The usual is comparing being gay to being a murderer or a drug dealer. THAT is the false equivalence. DADT for smoking works for the Swift patrol, but obesity and other forms of physical weakness can not be hidden from the impressionable Scouts. Car Camping plus Ben & Jerry's in the cooler are the sign of an immoral unit!

The Explorer Cops and Firefighters were both there for Scout Night at the MLS Galaxy game I went to a few weeks ago.

It took 19 years from when the first State (California) ended their anti-miscengenation laws to the Loving Decision by the Supreme Court in 1967 ended those laws in all 50 states. For private organizations, Bob Jones University was still prohibiting inter-racial relationships as late as the year 2000. That would mean 52 years from the first change in state laws until one of the last private groups renounced their policies. So if we draw a parallel, Gay marriage started in Massachusetts in 2004. 19 years from that takes us to 2023 for all 50 states to accept, and 52 years from that takes to 2059 before one of the last institutions stops forbidding it. I expect Local Control in the next 10 years. The Marines were marching in the San Diego Gay Pride Parade this weekend after all.

AZMIke - parent is driving this, but the boy was there for the discussion.

All - please forgive my last post. I took many of the extremely offensive statements, and on top of that spent 2 hours last night trying to keep a parent and Scout in my unit. I think I lost the fight - they aren't willing to stay in the BSA due to the recent announcements. Some of you might not think that this is having an impact, but I am already dealing with it.

Really - "pro-sodomite"? "Next you will let in the pedophiles?" "Through out Morally Straight?" "Oddball churches" I guess I can respond in kind: "I do so love it when the Klan patrol gets together to post. No doubt Scouting was better when it was just white Christians from approved churches, before the BSA accepted the blacks, the Jews and other undesireables. It must be tough for you boys to get your white robes cleaned up after a campout. No doubt your Biblically submissive wives take care of that for you." Do you really think that is the attitude of those of us who want Local Control? That we want to abandon Morally Straight and bring in the child molesters? On the contrary - we want to UPHOLD Morally Straight and even more embrace Reverent to respect the many faiths out there.

Careful - that looks like an oversized sheath knife...

Twitter is a communication tool where you post a message with a total of 140 characters. You can "follow" people on Twitter, and their "tweets" will roll up your screen. For example, I follow Scouting Magazine (on Twitter they are @Scouting). Their tweets today: Scouting magazine ‏@scouting Headed to camp next week? Read how Scouters can make the most of their time at summer camp: http://bit.ly/M8o3Ft Expand Reply Retweet Favorite 12 Jul Scouting magazine ‏@scouting Can your Scouts start a fire in the rain? Brush up on this excellent survival skill using this instruction guide: http://bit.ly/swzxBZ Expand Reply Retweet Favorite 12 Jul Scouting magazine ‏@scouting Have you entered to win one of 10 hammocks today? Winners will also receive the book, @TheUltimateHang! http://bit.ly/N3vop6 Expand Reply Retweet Favorite Now, you can put a hashtag on any tweet (#listentobeavah), and then see if it picks up steam. I use hashtags for technical issues in the software industry - like #cloud. Someone posted up a joke on rejected badges, the humor at best is juvenile. Lots of people started re-tweeting the jokes and reusing the hashtag. I did like the one with Scout Leader Husbandry though.

As a youth, I had a District EBOR. Met over at a church I think, and there were a bunch of candidates in the waiting room. I entered the room, gave the Oath and Law, sat down and was grilled. It was awesome - all of these adult men asking me questions about my project, my merit badges and my troop. In the group were a couple of dads from my unit, but the rest were complete strangers to me. It was a great experience for this 13 year old Eagle candidate. My son's EBOR had one District person with silver tabs, our Troop's Eagle Advisor who also serves the District, and another member of our Troop's committee. It was only those 3 - so I guess it was a Unit EBOR with participation from one non-unit person. It was held at an office building as well in a conference room and it seemed to go fine.

When my son did his project, his advisor required him to do two things: 1) His project plan had to be written so that if he died, another Scout could pick it up and complete it. 2) He had to have a wingman on his project - his XO. My son chose a friend Scout to be his XO, as training for when HE would do HIS project. I started encouraging all of our Eagle candidates to have an XO on their project, and encouraged them to choose someone who was close to thinking about their project - thereby passing on the experience. This has worked out pretty well so far - each Eagle candidate gets to help train another one on the project. They also learn a little more leadership this way (better delegation training). As for Personal Management - that would be a great one to require for Life. Instead, I know that many MBCs accept the Eagle Project Plan as the project for that requirement.

When I was at camp with the boys: 1) Mandatory showers on Wednesday before dinner, with a sniff check of the hair for soap and dampness proof. 2) Same again on Friday before dinner. We attached one boys shoes to the bumper rather than have them in the car after a week.

Engineer61 - to my knowledge they have not published any reimbursement rates. How would they know what they will make? Now - if every service was paid at the Medicaid rate - that WOULD hit a lot of doctor's offices. Tricare usually pays the best, followed by Medicare, then Medicaid. Medicaid patients rarely pay for themselves in a traditional practice.

We got what we deserve. I spend half a day a month dealing with insurance company paperwork due to a special needs member of my family. There is nothing simple, and there is no way to predict what will be covered, partially covered, or fully funded. I am on an excellent plan, but it is still a nightmate. I try to get appointments with specialists, and it takes me MONTHS to get on a calendar. Now, I lived in the UK and was covered by their system. It was fine. I was in the military and covered there. It was fine. The private hospitals, the private physicians, and the insurance companies of America have slowly allowed our system to become such a problem through either their sins of omission or commission that they have no right (in a general sense, not Constitutional sense) to complain. The current system does not work. The Republicans could have done a few things to help, like making health insurance and all health costs fully deductible regardless of income or level of deductions - thereby breaking the stranglehold of the company provided insurance racket. Someone could have proposed combining Medicare, Medicaid, Tricare and the Federal Employee health program into one system - and then put a price on buying into it. But instead everyone screamed and moaned, until enough lobbyists got together and created this stew of a solutions that most people still do not understand.

I think that the NET effect is positive. Yes, we have situations where we get someone too strict to their interpretation of the terms that Scouting is hurt (the thread with multiple boys not earning Tenderfoot after 3 years). We also get those situations where we might have an Eagle who can't tie his shoes. Those, however, are problems at the extreme. Leaving room in the writing for local interpretation makes it possible for adult leaders to make Scouting possible in different areas. For examples - If I told a boy to go chop 6 branches to make tent pegs - the Ranger would have me arrested and cited. In most of the forests around Southern California you can not gather wood, you can not burn anything on the ground, fire rings themselves are only available at group camp sites, and you certainly can not use your hatchet to remove branches. If someone were to write that up as a requirement (and it SOUNDS good), then I would be forced to either never advance my Scouts or ignore the advancement requirements. So keep the guidelines a little vague, with some wiggle room. Train your leaders (Scout and Scouter) on the Original Intent. Give examples of how to achieve teach certain skills in your area, e.g. we had a rack built onto the top of our Troop trailer to haul gardening poles so that we could have pioneering projects.

I check this blog for updates regularly: http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/ I was at a presentation by Gallup, and someone in the audience asked about the election. The speaker when through some of the numbers regarding jobs, economy, etc. Obama is at risk, but it is still pretty hard to knock out an incumbent. Another political consultant that I talked to said that no prediction is worth anything until September. At that time, look at the jobs and consumer confidence numbers in the key swing states. If bad, then you might see Romney take it.

George Takei isn't white, he is Japanese. He also has a good understanding of discrimination and its effects. He was sent to an internment camp as a boy during World War II. This is part of why he is one of the backers of the musical Allegiance: http://www.allegiancemusical.com/post/creators His quote profile on Facebook states this: "Growing up in California, it was illegal for Asians to marry whites. How times have changed. I married a white DUDE." I also would not call him a "non-supporter" of the BSA either. He asks that the discrimination against Gays and Lesbians end, and he says that as a former Scout and Scouter.

Around me we have Little League, Pony League (they claim "real baseball"), and travel teams. Each has its own rules (typically around pitching, stealing and time in infield and outfield for players). Little League is where you play if you want you kid to play. Travel teams are when you think your kid wants to play in high school. Our local high school coaches, during tryouts, will first ask each kid to tell them which travel team (for baseball) or club team (for soccer) the boy plays for. Those kids make the first cut. Other kids have to prove themselves if they are lucky. Then, in the off season from high school ball, a lot of high school coaches will have a club/travel team that every high school starter just "seems" to join.

I should have led with this: http://www.volunteeringinamerica.gov/special/Generation-X-(born-1965-1981) The actual data does not seem to show a significant difference between the generations, especially if we control for age (parents with kids have less spare time).

The book Bowling Along discussed this issue - http://bowlingalone.com/ "Putnam draws on evidence including nearly 500,000 interviews over the last quarter century to show that we sign fewer petitions, belong to fewer organizations that meet, know our neighbors less, meet with friends less frequently, and even socialize with our families less often. Were even bowling alone. More Americans are bowling than ever before, but they are not bowling in leagues. Putnam shows how changes in work, family structure, age, suburban life, television, computers, womens roles and other factors have contributed to this decline." My father was active in Kiwanis, and it was a great organization for a businessman as well. When I checked out the local club, it was a combination of poker players and retirees. I don't have time to join a group like Kiwanis. My time is spent as a soccer coach, a Scout Leader in two units (Pack and Troop), and a volunteer for a swim team. When I had extra time on my hands, I served on the Board of our local soccer league and was the Scoutmaster of the Troop. A good friend of mine has put more time into the soccer league, even though his boys no longer play. That is his service - not joining a club. My father did NONE of that. His contribution to my Troop was dropping me off and picking me up from meetings and campouts, for which I DO thank him. He WAS, however, very active in Kiwanis. Why would I join a service organization? I already contribute my time directly to Scouting and youth sports. I don't need another club to convince me to serve - I will serve directly instead of through an intermediary. This is the same reason I don't give to the United Way - if I want to help a charity, I will help them directly. I don't need a larger organization with its own agenda standing between me and my time/cash. Generation Rant, Don't Take Seriously or Personally: I am pure GenX. I graduated into a recession watching companies layoff long-term employees, and show them zero loyalty. My generation had to take the first of the McJobs (See Doug Coupland's book), assumed that we would be dumped at the first opportunity, and we moved around the country chasing work. We didn't have time for the service organizations, nor did we see the value in them. If we wanted to hang out with friends, we would do it. If we wanted to help out, we would. But we did not want to join some club run by Boomers who would tell us how to serve others. This is the same reason that many of us started tech companies - we could do it with minimal need for some Boomer telling us what to do (except when we raised money, admittedly).

A few years ago my older son called me. "Scoutmaster dad, X & Y want to come on our ski trip and then our shooting campout." Me, "You want me to open up two of our really fun trips? Tell them to join the Troop, and they can come. I am not taking someone shooting who is not a Scout." Picked up those two, plus two more. These were 8th graders who had no interest in Scouting, whose parents did not care either. It was going shooting and going skiing that got their attention. The Sea Scouts had a great "What did you do last weekend" thing going last year. Individual ships put them together with music, dropped the videos on YouTube. They sold the adventure of Sea Scouting.

Some parts of the market are lost to us. Top academic kids: The competition for college acceptance has driven a lot of the top kids into weekend classwork, and the need for check-offs for application. While Eagle Plus SPL is worth points on the application, there are activities with less time commitment that will get the same points. Top athletes: Coaches will not play a kid who misses practice. One of my Eagle's never made Philmont because he coach would not excuse him for the first week of practice, and that is when our lottery pull hit two years in a row. Coaches (and I am one of them) can demand 100% dedicated players, and they get them. Cultural barriers: This is both the dork / nerd issue (which was true even in the 80s. Add in that patriotism, other than a brief resurgence after 9/11, is not as strong as it once was. Being an "all American" boy is not always celebrated sadly. Demographics: For many of us, we are multi-national ethnic mix. I have great success with Korean expats in my area. The Persian community is not as strong though. Indians show up a lot though. Each grouping requires a different approach as you bring them into the unit. God & Gays: We beat this horse regularly around here already. There are more people with no religion, and young people who are accepting of gays and lesbians. The "Bigoted Scouts of America" costs us a few percentage points as well. We are perceived as a white, Christian youth group. So, with all of that - how do we get "cool" - or at least "cooler?" Hard core outdoors. Hard core search and rescue. Hard core hunting, stalking, wilderness survival. Backcountry parkour courses alongside COPE. Recover our reputation as the guys you want with you in the woods, because we are the experts at finding food, starting a fire by rubbing two cliches together, making a shelter and having a good time doing it all. The kings of self-sufficiency. We will turn your boys into men. Give us a summer, and your son will be able to handle it all on his own. I sometimes tell parents that we don't give boys credit for what they can already do. The teenager did not exist until the 50s. Admiral Nelson had 13-year old Midshipmen on his warships. Powell wanted young Scouts for the wars. What if the BSA had a campaign telling parents to stop molly-coddling their boys, and instead get more out of them? What if the BSA started running ads promising adventure again? Now - this is all just marketing (which is what I do for a living). The next challenge would be getting it to happen. That means that instead of banning "oversized sheath knives," we issue a BSA Bowie knife instead. That means that we have a new patch for adults who are certified backwoodsmen (some variation on the HAT stuff). That means that wilderness survival gets real again (when I took it, the final test was when I was handed a live chicken and told to come back to the instructor's shelter once I had finished cooking it.) We turn our uniform into one of rip-stop fabric pants and a wicking shirt with a necker only. Ranks would be on a leather vest, worn only for formal ceremonies. The uniform would be based on something you would want to be wearing if we dropped you into the woods in an emergency.

If the BSA has competent attorneys, repressed memory can be countered in the courtroom. Elizabeth Loftus is one of the biggest names in showing how false memories can be implanted, and she spends a fair amount of time on the witness stand. So lets not worry about repressed memories (that was more of an issue in the 80s and 90s). We should be worried about accusations that were not properly managed with either follow-up, removal from status, and notification of the police. Once again, we should have already started this review ourselves, looking for any landmines we laid for ourselves through inaction or ignorance.