Hillis

I agree completely. Quality Lodge is something set up to measure how well you're doing--but it is not perfect. If Quality Lodge doesn't meet your needs as a lodge, it is really more of a suggestion than anything else. Keep up our "quality" system instead of the "quantity" system--eventually, that quality system will get you to Quality Lodge (makes enough sense, right?). In the mean time, just know that what you're doing is better for the people of the lodge, council, and community, and that's what's important.

Yes, this is true--in the OA, individuals are considered Youth until 21, meaning that a 20-year-old and a 16-year-old can share a tent at OA functions, but not troop functions. This is NOT something your Chapter is doing wrong, it is National Policy. The reasoning, I believe, is that troops tend to have younger scouts, starting around 11 years old. The OA, however, tends to have older scouts, starting around 14 years old. An 11-year-old and a 20-year-old in a tent is a big age gap, but a 16-year-old and a 20-year-old is not such a big gap. Don't complain to your Chapter, they are doing it right.

Kudu, I assume by your name that you run the site you posted about. I think it is irresponsible for you to refer to these Woodcraft Scout ceremonies as (Ordeal) and (Vigil) on the site, because it goes against the symbolic progression of the OA. While these scripts are not the OA scripts, they are suggestive and not protected.

John-in-KC, thanks for the suggestions, but I think you misinterpreted my post. I have been organizing this thing for some time...most everything is set, but I was just looking for any additional last minute attendance boosters. I don't want this to just be a Banquet, I want it to be something that will get kids there and really make them want to get back involved in the OA. Any other suggestions form people out there?

I am planning for my lodge banquet in January--usually about 250 in attendance, but I'm from a 1500 person lodge. How can I boost these numbers for the banquet? What fun activities can I offer for OA aged kids? What will draw them in?

I have looked for information on starting a Venture Crew, and have found very little. The national site gives an outline for how to start a crew, but it mkaes no mention on paperwork or an application to be recognized. I have already organized the group and we are set to go--now how do I go about making my crew "official"?

This is not from my lodge, but I support it. Some may scoff at the illegitimacy of this, but... http://curryfam.com/curryfam/devin/files/mowogo-LEC-patch2.gif I've never been much of a stickler for following insignia rules--aren't there more important issues to deal with? If a Lodge wants to make patches, they should go for it (or use the fakes from eBay). There of five versions of rank patches in the lodge, each one commissioned by the lodge and including their totem: Lodge Chief Lodge Vice-Chief Lodge Secretary Chapter Chief Lodge Executive Committee Seems reasonable to me. As for the shoulder loops, I just may have to get myself a pair of silver ones.(This message has been edited by Hillis)

I second the use of Crocs as camp shoes. Unbelievably lightweight and comfortable. Really, I don''t use Crocs, I use a knock-off brand called Nothinz--I have found them to be cheaper, MUCH more comfortable, and more compressible than Crocs. At Philmont, they actually sell Nothinz instead of Crocs for those reasons. As for my worst gear...my old, old Kelty external frame--which I just recently replaced with an amazing Osprey Atmos 65 that I used for the Rayado program at Philmont.

acco40--I couldn't agree more. You obviously understand how the Order should function and the correct role of adults. That is what makes the Order so special. Because of the slightly older and more mature group, the OA can do what Troops have been trying to do for years: Youth Led Program, in the fullest sense of the word. That's why I got involved in the OA, it gave me a place that put forth something my troop couldn't offer, a real chance to lead, plan, and take responsibility--without adults taking over, but with adults on the sidelines offering advice and support. A Troop has a ScoutMASTER, an OA lodge has a Lodge ADVISOR. And that makes all the difference.

I must disagree with CalicoPen. The rule regarding eagle feathers was created to stop illegal activities. While the rule may be written poorly to not include legal feathers, like yours, this is a rule that should be taken at face-value. Because they are legal feathers, I think you can feel free to use them. Go ahead, enrich the OA experience in your lodge with your legal native feathers, but if someone in a position of power asks you to stop, listen. I doubt anyone that would tell you to stop can even tell the difference, and most people are totally understanding when you are obviously following the rule de facto, if not de jure. On the other hand, the gun might be too much. I think it is fine, and I think you should plead your case to use it, but this one may not have the same positive results as I would expect from using legal native feathers. As for making a new set of regalia for the OA, I don't think it is absolutely necessary, but I would recommend it. Because of the rough-housing nature of many boys and not-always-outstanding conditions in which the lodge powwows are held, dance regalia (and ceremony regalia for that matter) used in the OA has a shorter lifespan than what you may be used to. Ruining your nice set would be a shame. If you cannot dedicate the time or money to making a new set, and you are OK with the risk of damage, using the real set is fine. I think the lodge would be more than happy to have someone dancing in real native regalia, regardless of the style!

Also, I'm still looking for class ideas! And if you have anyone in your troop interested in ceremonies that is in the Hill Country area (Tonkawa Lodge or otherwise) come out! Just pre-register anyone that wants to come so that they can have a spot reserved.

Everything is finalized, the date had to be moved due other problems, details are: March 30th-April 1st Lost Pines Scout Reservation Registration starts at 7pm on Friday night

I am running a ceremony workshop for my lodge in late March over the course of a weekend. If you have any good ideas for ceremony related classes that I could teach at this workshop to help new ceremonialists as well as experienced ones, please share. Thanks, Hillis

We do a tapout at the campfire, but the actual ordeal is at a later date and time. We also have a Brotherhood ceremony on one of the nights to promote converting to Brotherhood. There is always an icecream social for all arrowmen after the Brotherhood ceremony. For lodges that do ordeals at Camp--how do you keep them seperate from other campers as to not ruin the suprise factor of the ordeal, and more importantly, doesnt doing an ordeal during camp mess up the kids' merit badge class schedule?

Yes, I am going to NOAC, and I will be competing in Lodge Drum, PreOrdeal, and Brotherhood ceremonies for Tonkawa Lodge 99. I'll also be taking classes, including many AIA classes. I'll be sure to ask many questions and get lots of help while I'm there. I don't live in the Southeast, but as the new ceremony chairman for my lodge, I'm trying to start a seminar in my area. Thanks, Hillis