anarchist

These kind of things drive me nuts. I am watching the same situation...with a like scout who is now getting ready for eagle...He dropped out of site for nearly a year(for girls and sports-both highly worthwhile activities. During his disappearing act he did not "complete' his job (in a satisfactory manner) as ASPL and due to a weak SPL the troop could have really used his efforts. I don't think he has been on an outdoor activity in the last twelve months...He is currently acting as Chaplins Aid for his POR requirements...and will be given his eagle... I am hugely glad I will not be on his Eagle board. don't get me wrong, Ilove this kid, have known him and his family for his entire scouting life -tigers on... but in my heart I know he will not deserve his eagle. And in the words of my son, "if he gets his Eagle what are they saying about being active? about showing scout spirit and about fairness?" (and these boys are best buds)! The boy turns 18 in two or three months so there is little time for him to "become" active except for attending meetings and of course working his Eagle project. I am glad I 'sit on the committee side' and not SM or ASM cause I do not think He would have gotten past the SM conference. I do not relish these judgements...I wish you guys all the best but maybe I am just too strict.

first I agree that it (KMno4)has a 'danger" factor, but while we are at it let's get MSDS's for propane, butane, white gas and bleach... lets also review whether we should show 'em how to responsibly use pocket knives, axes, saws, canoes and a few other items. I am not advocating turning them loose with the stuff but with adult supervision (and maybe someone supervising the adults) we can introduce some items during 'instruction classes'that have a "WOW" factor. These things allow for or act as attention grabbers or interest holding devices that create a more acute learning environment and perhaps help scouts think outside the box... ' Been using this stuff for demos for years and you know what,...the boys think it is interesting (and keep in mind this is not as "showy" as the magnesium flakes), want to know where to get it and when I tell them that when they are ready we'll talk more about it...they move on to stuff like wanting to use "girl scout water" (no!) or easier-to-make fire starters...(yes)! But it does get attention...just like a Chem. teacher setting off a "carbon volcano" at the start of a class! (or 9 volt batteries and steel wool). nuff said offer still stands for a couple of tons of rock (COD?) anarchist

red feather brain "_ _ _ _" alert! Look for pot. perm. not Magnesium...my mistake and just so folks don't think this is a 'no-no', REI sells a fire starter kit for a bunch of green backs that is the same stuff...good chem guy can sell you a five year supply for the cost of a micro-sample from REI though!. Offer still stands for a few tons of rock if you pay shipping! anarchist

Cajuncody, this isn't a service project...tell your scouts; THIS IS SCOUTING BROTHERHOOD! We can do this! anarchist

MAGNESIUM PERMANGINATE (not at home, so I might be spelling it wrong) but I love this stuff for demonstrations... (black powdery substance in a jar, You can get from chem. supply house or a neighborhood pharmasict (prob. have to order for you) Don't bother to go to a chain pharmacy...they won't do it) anyway this is an old WWII trick "MAG.PER." was an powered oxidizer in the old first aid kits...put a little powder (size of little finger nail) in a small wad of paper/paper towel add two or three drops of antifreeze (prestone works fine) from an eyedropper bottle, wad loosely and set into your prepared fire 'teepee'/tender-pile and watch the smoke and fire begin...in a few seconds...just as the boys figure its not gonna work! goes well with the battery/steel wool (which is actually the antirust coating on the fine steel that is "burning") and I can send you some quartz also...by the ton if you pay shipping! anarchist

Cajuncody, Have two hats and at least two shirts already. Also have a tan Web II shirt. I have let the two packs that 'feed' our troop know of your needs as well as the parents in our Troop...we can do this! Do your guys use blue pants or do they do the "Blue Jeans" thing? I am hoping by next week to let you know what we have put together. Y.I.S. anarchist

Spiney Norman, screens work but you will lose 20% of your light and in a "blow" lighting and keeping lit can be a problem... some of the coleman two mantle propanes have more than the appropriate 'space' or are lacking the "lense retainer" bracket found in many other colman lanterns. This will result in the screen 'slopping' around which will eat up your mantles...solution is cut a piece of perforated muffler/tail pipe straping and bend in a flat "u", (2 90 degree bends). When turned upside down, if you measured hole spacing right, the top post will fit in a perforated hole, the 'bracket' will slide on and brace the screen 'globe',then the top and nut go on...it works! Wind can be tamed by picking up some of colemans 'light shifters'...er reflectors (that was not hazing!)...only throws light one way but handles wind issues. That the way we did it anyway...Adults still use glass... and the North Start does "rock" if you want to pay for it. (still like my candle lantern!) anarchist

thanks for your help ..all! SR540Beaver, Church has no funds, not even seed money. Not even to pay utilities on a temporary meeting hall situation (or rent). They are no where near ready or able to expand...'growing the church was one of the reasons they started the preschool that brought us to this messy situation. Sewer system hook up is also a major problem (local authorities want everyone to build modern high tech stuff and make permits very difficult). We looked into a modular also, and again... front money is a major issue...and believe it or not our parents will not support fund raisers for "this project. "Real Estate development" is not what they want to raise funds for....(and truely with church, school, scouts and sports team sales efforts, I can understand that part). Still looking for an answer, but the two CO idea is looking better and better as a win-win solution...if I can sell it. Oh and about the 'new' CO starting a new unit... great idea! but due to the area in which they (potential new CO) are located, a new troop hasn't been started in years in that area...older homes, older 'families,...few "kids". Add to that, the old story that the areas (new developments-big houses) providing the 'growth' for our troop seem to have very busy parents with little scouting background, who don't seem ready to step up to the challenge. Because of the rampant housing growth, churches and other community halls have not been coming online as fast as the "Scout" needs are developing.....but our district folks are trying to grow new units anyway...Still... It is safer, easier, and less of a "load", to send your son to a strong, working program rather than having to work incredibly hard to start up a new (your own)unit and drive across county... AND I DO understand that too! again, you guys are great! anarchist

Candle power! I really loved my candle lantrns for "packing", including my 'mother of all candle lanterns'- "3 stick"! (uses three rather than one candle). Don't hike all that much since 'they' chopped out a lung but I still canoe and wouldn't think of leaving home without 'em. Even truck camping I'll fire one up after the day is done to enjoy a last cup of coffee without the "hissssss" of the propane lights... And Eamonn, the folks who make the nifty single candle lantern now have a small attachment for the bottom that turns it into a FLASHLIGHT! anarchist

Cajuncody, any idea how many more cub uniforms you need??? and sizes??? anarchist

Right as rain on the poncho/rain suit combo! I do like the Red Ledge suits pants fit in a very small bag as does the Jacket. I also carry my fairly new coated (pvc or urethane)nylon Poncho. In camp during heavy rain I use the pants-poncho combo cause you don't sweat as much. And I cheat on canoe trips...I take my fly fishing jacket which allows vapor to pass through but best of all has adjustable neoprene cuffs that keep water from running back up your arm when you paddle. For kids, I picked up two coated nylon suits from Walmart ($20.00 on sale) and two strips of Velcro. Legs on the pants are long and wide but I slit the out side seams to lower-calf area and we tack-down the velcro on these 'slits'with a good coat of Barge cement and a few stitches top and bottom of seam(for good measure). The guys can then open this seam and slip the pants on right over their hiking shoes...My SM noted that his son said he had some serious "rain gear envy" after seeing my crew. Next camp saw them suited up 'jes like us'...give it a try... works darn well and if the guys "lose" it or get "spark" burned...dad doesn't break down and cry like he would if it was Gor-tex. Good gear question! anarchist

My heart is streaking towards the sky! While I am not an Eagle, maybe they will suffer me to soar along with them for a little while. I still hope to hear in writing from Council or National before I lay my suggestion on the table (to the committee). I don't want to break any hearts! Thank you all...(right and not so right alike)! Shake enough trees and you can fill your basket. Trouble and all I love this stuff! Y.I.S. (yours in scouting) Anarchist

In a couple of posts (different threads)I have hinted of problems with our charter organization...nice country church that recently started a preschool in the basement. Our Troop has met there for over 16 years. We are now moving kiddie furniture, chairs, bookcases, tables etc. against the walls and holding meetings in what appears to visitors to be a storage room. I have located a group,(a National BSA approved charter organization) down the road a piece, which is wants to do back flips to welcome us to their facilities. They have wanted a Youth oriented group for a long time. Sound great except, we have a large group within the troop that does not want to break ties with our small community. It has been home to our troop for 50+ years. There are no 'town' sites available for a 60-80 boy troop. Schools are booked, other churches have other conflicts.... I have been called everything but "nice guy" by the church folks for even thinking about asking Scout families to move the troop. Our growth is just too much for the space and boys are now not coming to meetings because of the crowded, noisy situation. My Idea is to have a partnership of sorts, with the old C.O. still 'attached' so to speak, and a new partner C.O. supplying a bigger meeting place. After talking to District and Council I am confused...District said "nope, only one C.O."; one council guy (on the phone) said "only one C.O."; but the lady in registration at council(when I went in person) said yep it could be done..."just fill out this new unit application and get a written letter of agreement from the old C.O." and gave me an application!(????)This of course 'made my heart soar', but after coming down to earth; I am hesitant to give people hope if my info is incorrect. A call to National has not been returned, nor has an email to Council. ANY INSIGHT OUT THERE? I would love to keep a 'connection' with the old Charter Organization (our COR was one of the early scouts in the troop- 1952)...and I am sure my 'scalp' would be safer.... Your thoughts and suggestions as always... anarchist

OWL62 is right on w/patch info ...per guide only color offered by BSA is red... red jac is thin compared to "old days" and very much out of line on price...get better goods else where for less! ... had one, @20 years old...thick and warm and new ones have @ half the wool...old one got 'wrecked' don't think I want a new one...

SR540Beaver Wish you both the best...but keep in mind "troubled waters are usually deeper than they appear" And I know what loosing a camping/scouting buddy is like. Maybe with some time he (and his life-mate) can find a path to come back to scouting in a smaller way. Whatever the activity, hobby or even vice is, 'wife and family' are the most important thing he will probably ever 'do' and it (first) needs to be done well...the rest will follow in due course. prayer are sent your way and your friend's and his family's...good people usually can find the way with a little help!

Insurance question...mainly on contents of trailer. CO has no place for troop to securely store equipment so trailer left on farm was a great thing. Troop for last five years has "self insured" contents...ie gambled that loss would simply we replaced over time rather than bare the expense of insurance. Protential new equipment "Guy" wants the contents insured and the troop to have liability insurance for when he tows (even though towing vehicles policy 'expands' to cover towed trailer. Your thoughts and suggestions are appreciated. By the way so far this has been a wonderful asset for the troop. And has led us from looking like a rag-tag bunch of mis-matched vagabonds to a well equiped, proud and sharp looking troop. When you can take care of your gear (store safely, dry and clean) you tend to be less hesitant to invest in what you need to make your program shine.

EagleInKY that's sort of what I was driving at...not being a lawyer and all, I think sibs can really put an unacceptable liability on the C.O. and leadership...I also know that in a jury trial the waivers and permission slips are not worth the paper they are written on (as a diffence), they primarily make everyone feel warm and fuzzy. I once said 'NO' (as trip leader) to a young non-scout sib coming on a canoe trip and caught the 'dickens' for it. anarchist

Camp fire is for watching... Simple rule #1). Web 2's and Den Chiefs "work" the bon fire. Simple rule #2). engineers tape on the ground or on cinder blocks or on fence stakes mark "NO GO ZONE" for cubs and sibs...if you want to be 'nice-nice' give 2 'strikes' and send 'em home...announce policy in advance as one for safety's sake'. Simple rule #3. Follow rule number 2. You then should only need one adult to be safety officer and enforcer. S'mores- if you want them at the bon fire; set up a station on the side of the fire and let the Web 2's make the 'flaming balls of sugar' and cubs can then assemble at a table (therefor no walkin' around with flaming stick! simple rule 1. for small campfires (at campouts)...what goes in fire stays in fire...put a stick in it stays in period. (even our boy scouts are taught this) Bon fires are for watching and sharing fellowship and experiences not for 'playing in', nuff said.

question here...anyone ever look at the insurance coverage for a BSA activity...I am not altogether sure the sib, the Charter Organization or the troop leaders would be covered if something happened... any takers? that said, we allow sibs at a few 'low drag' events and infact have a few family activities...but I am now concerned about the campout issues if you take a non registered boy, a friend or classmate (a possible recruit) is he covered???

MONEY is nearly always a problem! Good programs cost money! Recharter plus insurance plus Boys Life (for 100% unit credit)is about $20.00 none of this is pack money it all flies away to councile etc. This then allows for $115 for patches and activities, various kits (pine wood, rain gutter boats etc.) Blue and gold can get pricy for food and a 'hall' if needed. Depending on activities its hard for a unit to plan and reserve space for 40 kids and have 20 parents decide that their son can't go...the other 20 boys/families get dumped on... Unfortunately fund raising (like life) is not always a fair...our unit is looking at dues/membership fees because it seems the same families support the program every year and the other 'same ol' families' always have something better to do on fund raising efforts (and by that, appear to become freeloaders). This creates hard feelings and the a "sign up, pay up or go home," policy is looking more and more appealing to us. This is not to say a true hard-ship we would not find a way for the boy to participate, we have already set guidelines if we go down this path... but in many instances it seems to a case of $125 per pair sneaker clad boy (and Family) wanting to cut costs while junior seems have money for three different sports teams and the movies and his martial arts class...which is a no go... In the end; $115 boils down to $10.50 to $12.50 dollars per month for a 9-11 month program...a bargain in my book.... I second the sentiment about not letting the boy participate if he "does not deserve it". We sometimes have to do that as parents but the unit should not bear that cost (increase) the parent should...as my daddy used to say..."son this hurts me more than it does you".... maybe just maybe, sometimes, he was right. and finally...pinewood...if you are not a member in good standing you do not participate...period...why would you expect everyone else to 'pay to play' and not your sisters step son?

Reflectors are interesting old beasts...(like lots of folks hanging out here). As B.W. said, needs flame or huge pile of hot coals. One really good trick is to set up a good fire with good bed of coals and prepare good pile of wood 'splits' (no bigger than two fingers square...like kindling... Build a 'rotisserie' type set up about as tall as your reflector (when placed in its baking area). Your splits need to be long enough to standup and lean against the 'spit' on the rotisserie, on the hot coals, like you are building a plank fence 10-12 inches (some times 12-15 depending on temp you need). This arrangement will actually form a wall of flames and you can add splits as needed. A long rock (be careful) or a short log can also be used instead of the "rotisserie" setup. You need to take care and watch your baking much more carefully than with a Dutch Oven and you may want to move the oven as needed to 'add or subtract' heat. The interior 'shine' also helps...keep it clean. tips- dutch oven or welders gloves and one of those old style all metal oven thermometers that sit on the rack will help you get where you want to go! Good luck whip up some sourdough starter today! anarchist

two quick things...if you use chicken bones... fresh bones break differently from frozen bones and cooking doesn't help either...debone a few fresh legs and scrape clean, vise and hammer work well (not your hands)gives you more realistic breaks. halloween make up is good for lightening skin for shock 'appearance' and blood....just if you use the squirters (pumping blood from arteries) be prepared for no so fun clean-up (I wasn't), old drop cloths painters use are good for this... takes a huge amount of time but it is FUN. oh one other thing...with a good "live" dummy you can use a modified whoopie cushion to simulate a sucking chest wound...its great but takes practice in advance...just be sure to work on the cushion enough so that its normal sound is gone...other wise its just very funny and you will never get the scouts or students 'back down' to business. have fun!

you got the lead on the forms...but you need to work them to your equipment levels...(what you usually have on the trailer...in the truck or on your back) All troops need a program with events for each skill/age group. Not necessarily at the same activity. Older scouts need to be challenged and younger scouts need to be allowed time to build skills. We sometimes have two activities the same weekend one for our older guys and one for the main body. We start each 'new scout year' with a shakedown campout for only new scouts, their Guides, a few troop instructors, and couple of ASM's...not the general membership. This gives the young guys a chance to start learning the patrol method, get some serious equipment set up time and even make a few mistakes without feeling the older scouts are looking over their shoulders. They learn to check out equipment, set up the kitchen rain fly, set up their kitchens and lanterns, troop tents, wash stations and start basic cooking lessons. We even work on a few tenderfoot rank check offs. Each activity (campout) has an Adult point of contact. The PoC's job is to help the scout in charge of the activity...(usually a PLC member) to successfully do the scheduling and reservations. The PLC plans the whole year's activities and works on a monthly schdule and activity plan to make it happen! Frequently the adults have to lead/guide the PLC or the SPL through the rough spots so they can succeed, but ussually it is only a gentle prod or email with a couple of hints as to what is expected. AND REMEMBER patrols can campout on their own without the troop so you have ample opportunity to have the new guys work their way through a good camp...a little fishing trip to a local stream, pond or lake can really energize a unch of young scouts. Once a month a half hour of patrol time can be assigned to camp planning and what needs to be done...this is actually done... Finally, allowing the scout to fail at planning or scheduling a troop camping trip...when the whole troop gets 'dumped on'if it doesn't come off, is usually a sign that the adults either don't know what to do or they have given up and are only going through the motions...(been there and bought that tee shirt). Adult leaders must help the guys succeed in this area or the whole program goes down the tubes...you don't do it for them you just set expectations and work with them and it will succeed. good scouting anarchist

Our troop is going through this and it is not pretty. We have gone from 35 to 65 in two years and expect another 20-30 this March. We have been patrol method troop and boy led for at least 15 years...no one now remembers the 'good old days'. We find Patrol assignements are not really a problem. Our new scout patrols stay as a unit when they finish their first year if they wish/and can. If retention is a problem we might merge two new scout patrols to make one (our troop prefers 8-10 scout patrols (works for us). Some years we have had to allow scout led re-groups when older patrols get down to three or four active scouts (age, fumes, sports etc) but the PLC usually handles this quite well. Activities are the tough thing for us...we have a very active outdoor schedule 16-18 events plus summer camp...and finding ways to put 60 scouts into canoes and find sites to camp (both on the river and at camp grounds is tough! and we feel things are slipping...I'll be interested in seeing how you folks do... Parents support is critical but don't beat yourself up with patrol assignments use the PLC to teach each patrol that a SCOUT IS KIND and work on it...we have had several young men come to our troop with 'challenges' and after Briefing the PLC on what we adults expect them to do as human beings (not boys) I am pleasantly surprised how humane our kids can be when you have them stop and think about it...in advance. Give them time to 'figure it out' an by gosh they can do it. Left to their own devices you have many problems...be proactive teach and they will learn (usually) good luck! and keep in touch anarchist

like eamonn's post...but I wonder ( from another thread under service hours) we want to give double credits for service project ie (church and scouts)why don't we give credit so the scout feels good wearing the patch for his tour...(just joking here...sort of) The SM should be working with the "leaders" at each PLC and off and on at the troop meetings and activities, assessing and advising where needed, helping the SPL train, retrain and 'hold' the scouts to their responcibilities. and our SM has in the past noted to the leaders that unless they put their heart into it they would not recieve the necessary sign off...and kept to his word! If you take on a job you do it to the best of your ablities...It is counter-productive to give credit where credit is not due! BUT IT HAS TO BE FAIR AND THE SPL with the SM/ASM's assistance has to work continuously to help these kids succeed...no do their job just try to give them the tools and occaisional ...er...prod to "just do it"! Someone once told me something that the "P.C." crowd will hate but I give to you for thought... Think of a plant that grows...greenhouse vs. open nursery the hothouse plant is thick and beautiful where the field grown plant is maybe not quite as beautiful or fully formed...after all life for it has been tougher... But which plant will do better without you there to watch out for it...to protect it from the hard knocks??? Is there a lesson here??? Be tough, be fair, grow leaders! good scouting! anarchist