anarchist

I have PMed you for more details... alot depends on numbers the kitchen equipment you have and the skill set you Webs have...I's or II's...lots of outdoor work or little??? but here goes.... Friday night is bring a bag! or eat at home and bring a snack or instant soup (cup of soup is great!)....allows set up and prep for Saturday morning... The best camp I think my Webelos II's had was the last camp of their last year...we had been camping since Web I (wolf year really )...three or four per year and they could cook... so we had them plan two patrol menus just like Boy Scouts and broke the den into two patrols ( eight boys plus eight dads/moms= 16... too big for one patrol...)This was important, each boy got to cook a lot! Why important? Because the theme was "Thank You" for the parents hauling them around for the last several years in Cubs...AND MY BOYS WAITED HAND AND FOOT ON THEIR PARENTS FOR THE ENTIRE WEEKEND! We set up the tents (after setting up parents chairs so they could watch) and got ready for Saturday morning... Parents were encouraged to "sleep-in" and the boys made (with some help from our boy scout-my older son and the DL) breakfast, lunch, dinner and dessert Saturday and another big breakfast Sunday, after a sunrise service (non denominational of course),...set up cooking cleaning and break down all by the Web II's it was AWESOME! and aside from having to drag a couple of parents out of the prep-area in the kitchens it went off real well! ASK Parents for food 'problems', accomodate if needed, help the boys plan the meals, do the shopping (figure $12-15 -in advance) per person for the weekend...bags friday help keep this part 'fair' also. remember to pack a loaf of bread and PB&J for someone who decides not to trust to 'luck' and go for it. If you watch (direct)what is planned, (meals) even non-cooks can pull this (cooking) off, with your constant 'hovering'... but, my guys loved doing for the adults! YIS anarchist

cheffy, Have I got a suggestion for you!...I mean besides let 'em burn them! I am not a pro...but I love cooking...do most of it at home...would love to be a pro but I hate your hours! the suggestion? Give troop cooking lessons away from campouts or at a special campout. I started this when I was a Webelos leader (after going head to head with nearly all the dads/moms who still wanted the boys to eat well...and I carried it Boy Scouts. We now have a shakedown campout for new boys ONLY (SPL, Guides and a few older instructors are brought along) every fall. A major part of this is to break the boys down into smaller cooking units and have them cook four meals (sometimes five) over that first weekend. No quickies, every thing from scratch and because it is a NSP thing... no deadlines or activities to interfere. "Other" scout stuff is worked in around the cooking...knots, camp set-up, equipment use are worked in along with a few games and a small bit of down time...and new scout parents are kept out of NSP shakedown camp by the Scoutmaster who spends the weekend leading them through a complete patrol planning and execution process so they can see what it is like. Give it some thought...give it a try... Final note: NSPs start in March for us, Shakedown is late March-early April...we have a cooking contest (with nice prizes) worked into the June-August period (when our CO decides to hold its communittee picnic)...about half the New Scouts sign up! Its great! YIS anarchist

Shucks, look at it this way ...you join so you can spend more money, be more frustrated, deal with more hardheaded folks like yourself...and help boys become men we can be proud of! seriously, SP and foto gave you the basics...though fotoscout gets a little tence near the end...and troops/packs handle costs in different ways, for example: Our Troop requires leaders to pay their own fees, ( for me beats on more fund raiser)...the pack (I am an ACM, too) pays for leaders...a duel registration...ie after a first costs 1 yankee dollar, so...I pay the $20.00+ for my troop membership and the pack pays a dollar...see I told you it gives you a chance to spend more money... In our troop we actively encourage all families to provide one active registered leader...ASM or CM, and with 60 boys we have about 18-20 REALLY active SM corp/CM corp types, another 10 registered fairly active CM types and 5 or 6 others we can drag into the wood if we really need them... NOTE that as a troop, we let the 'potential' parents know before cross-over what we hope for (expect?)from them...(BSA... is not Baby Sitters of America) And we do it rather strongly, (in talks, presentations and handouts) We also let them know we train...so they can get 'inhouse' outdoor leader skills training (we have 6 eagles and 5 life for life types in the 18 I noted above) that we can get them equipment to use AND WE LET THE NON SCOUT-NON OUTDOORS TYPES KNOW THERE ARE JOBS THEY CAN HELP WITH in other areas...you don't need scouting experience...just a desire to help kids! AND IT WORKS! now heck don't you think now that a little frustration is worth $20.00 a year??? YIS anarchist!

Regarding 'remembering'...and I am gonna ruffle some feathers on this one... ...'dan' and others keep repeating, in this and other threads, that 'once a requirement is signed off it is over'...done...'the BSA doesn't say they have to remember it'....and frankly I think that is a bag of natural fertilizer... Let's use some first class requirements for this discussion: It is incomprehensible that BSA after telling the boys about 1st class... "when you have earned the right to wear it, you will have completed the training you need to take part in most of Scouting's activities and adventures" (page 111, handbook)...come on folks...'trained' implys an ability to carry it with you to take part in our activities...it expressly does not say go through the motions...and you earn the right...(go play kiddie soccer if you want a free trophy) When a boy wears the first class badge he should be expected to be able to demostrate those skills sets appropriate to his rank. Perhaps he is entitled to stumble a little here and there (I guess) but no one in this forum can tell me that a boy standing for 1st class who can't tie a square knot or a bowline or identify the primary poisonous plant in his area is worthy of wearing the rank ...because he talked his way through it once...sorry, but that dog won't hunt. old B-P would spin in his grave at that thought! To buttress this a bit further I quote the last few lines of the first class section, page 165 "AS A FIRST CLASS SCOUT, you'll be surprised to discover...and how effectively you can TEACH...the scouting skills you have MASTERED" Think its kind of hard to teach what you don't know...don't you??? and yes dan we have several more things in policy than the scout oath and law ...to avoid misunderstandings and scouts or parents who think they are Philadephia lawyers....most of them could be boiled down to the 12 points but we avoid word games by spelling out simple rules...most by the way, are suggested by the scouts in our first meeting each year when patrols meet to talk about how they want to do things in the coming year...and most of our scout policies revolve around how the boys wish to be treated and how they expect others to treat the property of our CO...respect, safety,etc. don't cha love this stuff!

Isn't PETA 'people eating tasty animals'? gotta go now, have to find where I put that dynamite so I can trot on down to the fishing hole...bye (just a joke ATF/Homeland defense!)

We no longer do a newsletter...died a long slow death...no one read it...we now have a parent handout and calendar given out the first of the 'scout/school year' and a great web site updated weekly! Better, everyone knows it is there...and no one has an excuse now...except being lazy....

HI SP "but I thank God scouting is not a business..." Sorry but Summercamp is a business otherwise Council would not be pressuring units to support it. Seems I was unclear...the out-council-camps in our experience almost always seem to try harder to please than the in-Council camp...the assistant camp director I quoted was at my council camp...and that is the rub...my unit should be part of their bread and butter...but they seem to miss that part of the equation. Virtually every part of the transaction seems to be better out of council...from registration to camp check-out...and while some camp experiences have been less than we hoped for the universal response from my unit leaders to this 'thread/question' has been 'even the youngest staff' at out of council camps seem to treat us as valued friends...not bothers...several of our older scouts end up 'staffing' the following summer at the camps we visit...but never show this interest at "council camp" ...just wondering...

Just one caution here...guys...was it a true PACK BSA event??? I ask that simply because I remember way back when...several of my 'Pack' friends and I used to get together on NON BSA river trips...Family adventures I guess you would call them..you know BSA and moving water concerns with cub scouts. Anyway after the day was done there were 'spirits' of various sorts visiting our river side camp as we fished or chatted the evening away...over the years this tended to grow...last time I did it there were 22 canoes on the float...all scout families some from different units but it was not a SCOUTING event....some like minded families doing things together but it may not in this case be 'scouting'... sometimes new comers hear about these things and join in without knowing the situation...just speaking up cause we do tend to jump on the 'wagon' with out all the facts... sometimes...'course maybe he is right and it was a scheduled event (bad)...'nuff said.

gar92 don't know what area of the country you 'hail' from but here in the Old Dominion, we can find poison ivy, sumac and the vines of poison oak by just looking around...year round...we encourage our guys to take samples (from private not public lands ) bag them in zips and display to SPL etc...all without 'catching' the rash... (forceps -wash afterwards and gallon size zips work well for this)...depending on your area a short patrol hike can furnish what you need... good scouting

SR540... thought I'd give you another two cents... several years ago We started a policy manual, nothing big, just how we expected scouts to act, what was expected of Scouters, scouts and parents and what BSA 'things' parents needed to know...I recommend highly that as you grow (as a troop) in corporate each new 'challenge' into good sensible policy. One of those policies we now have is for our New Scout Patrols; only the SPL, SM, ASM's assigned to NSP's and the troop guides can sign off for any requirement through first class... period. We were finding in the SM conferences that many (most?) of the new scouts had few of the skills required for either the new rank or their current ranks...ie. ask a second class first aid question of a first class 'candidate'...get a dump look and "I forget"...ask for a knot ...same answer...so we decided to make the effort to limit (by 'official' policy, the folks who can sign off. To make it more 'important' for both parties in the 'transaction'...NOW SM knows who to come see if a scout is not really 'learning his stuff'! If you sign it... the boy better know it! (sounds tough...not really, but it lets all participants know this is important! Do some internet crawling...many troops have 'policy' papers on line...makes for lots of really heavy, sleep inducing reading but from time to time you will find something your troop can use! YIS anarchist

spun off from another thread.... COUNCIL and SUMMER CAMP DIRECTORS... LISTEN UP! 'Scouter wrote "when a leader tells me a neighboring council's camp is great and our Council's camp suck's", and that troop will never go back to councils camp....' I wonder why we keep hearing this? I wonder, because my troop feels that way towards our Council's camp...which is generally 'praised by all', at least, if you listen to 'Council' anyway... When a unit has a bad time at summer camp, why do the Councils just blow it off? I have heard the same complaints year in, year out, from other units...many who go back to the Council camp year after year (because its easier to say they support council and its easier to plan and execute locally). We may offer our boys one in-Council camp during their entire scout experience... Our primary reason? We seem to find that we are treated as valued customers not poor relations who have overstayed their welcome, when we visit 'out of Council'camps. Do the Councils/summer camps ever listen to complaints? (One year, when I was mistaken as 'camp friendly', an assistant camp director remarked that "all some units could do was complain" and "scouts should expect to stand in line for popular activities (pool/firearms/archery) at a popular and successful camp"... like his. In the hotel industry (as in most service sectors the -real world of business) mistakes or problems are usually 'handled' with the idea of making and retaining customer/clients...Summer camps appear to feel that they can do no wrong and 'oops!' is an acceptable way of 'making nice' with a client who feels his scouts are getting less than a good experience. Well folks...it doesn't and shouldn't work that way...and it appears that more and more units are catching on! I encourage troops to look at other camps and test the water... Please note that we are not really looking at 'program offerings' as the product, unless of course something (Eagle Base) is 'offered and then not delivered. Rather, service, staff training and attitude are the main topic here (we can all anticipate that 'camp X' will be a modern state of the art operation and 'Camp Z' is an old run down basket case) What we want to talk about here is the program that seem to have a good offering but still seems to screw it up and why they don't seem to want to improve. I hope to hear from both sides on this...and has anyone had a camp make good on a bad situation???

hi ho fellow misfits and the rest of you do gooders! I am trying to make this one of my shortest posts. Our district Has a little list (about 25 pages) through round table and SM/CM fundimentals, woodbadge connections and District merit badge "days"... we have developed our own list of 'out-side' the troop M-B 'good guys'(girls?) These are folks we know/think make the 'process' a worth while experience and not an 'auto sign-off or on the other side a 'grind' (have I got a Citizen/nation S(on)o(f)B(adguy) for you)...THIS IS THE LIST WE POST! We also have 'in troop' folks but we would rather not use them unless we have no good choice... We would rather other troops use ours...what the boys don't know does not seem to hurt them...and after the 'brownsea' year we encourage summer camp for unusual activities rather that merit badge mills for their camp experiences (one -two are enough)...do things you like! learn to live!

Happy NEW! does your troop have a 'policy' ? Ours does...NO PARENT SIGNS OFF FOR OWN CHILD...ON ANYTHING...period, end of question! And for 8 or nine years it has been observed...I can think of small units way out in the "outback' that might have a problem but in general parents can be down right stupid when it comes to there own kids...in some cases HARDER just as often as easier... I would ask the scout to 're-acquire' 9a which has numerous 'points' to 'discuss'. It, (the requirement) does not say "earn your canoeing merit badge" (which is, in many cases, a bonifide joke at summer camps...Both of my sons at different camps 'did' this badge. One earned it a learned something the other spent some time, played in a canoe on the waterfront and was 'given' it...(his words...but dad is an avid canoe jocky..who knows and requires good basic technique). Advise the SM, if you have the standing, to allow the scout to earn his rank not be given it... AND IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE POLICY...GET CRACKING!

dluders, Forgive this long post! You have gotten some good advice in this thread. But, I think there is more than just frustration here. I know you will not like most of my post...but here goes.... In the real world the CC is not necessary at troop meetings...at all, period...meeting time is 100% program time... if you need up dates pick up the phone...If you have 'needs or NOW issues...pick up the phone! I can not see where many (90%) of your 'problems' can not be handled without a CC...even the BoR's or CoH's...if you have Advancement Chair(?) and/ or an Eagle coordinator, the Boards for Eagle can be done without the CC 'being around'... CC can be or is frequently a figure-head who 'runs meetings' and with enough strong 'can do' leaders on the committee, is not really needed. Outdoor coordinator should handle many 'trip' related activities...not CC. Breakage on activities (particularly 'who did it') is program problem not the CC's...replacement cost is treasurer/Troop policy/committee business not just the "CC". Your presence at the monthly meeting should give you updates on any issues you have and a troop wide email followed by a call to the "CC" to be sure your questions are on the agenda should do it. A suggestion... Our troop uses what we call a 'point of contact' (PoC) system, for each activity. Shortly after and sometimes during the 'annual troop plan' approval process a committee member, ASM, parent and sometimes the SM are 'assigned' or 'asked' to 'volunteer' to be the adult PoC's for each activity on our calendar INCLUDING SUMMER CAMP. That person (PoC) then helps the SPL with the planning, scheduling transport and if necessary the reservations for the activity. That person (PoC)supplies details to the Outdoor Coordinator who obtains the Tour permits and helps out as needed, The treasurer collects any camping fees! Our CC has nothing to do with the process after the annual calendar is set...this stuff is NOT HIS JOB... but he is to hold the monthly meetings and see that committee members update the troop...and if a PoC needs proding he can step in but usually the monthly meeting solve the proding problem. The basic monthly meeting agenda has a 'reports' (outdoors, treasurer, SM, advancement etc) list that calls for each person to update the committee and SM/ASM's as to the status of the activities coming up. With a strong committee and good parent help the "CC" can be tolerated for taking up space...It's nice to have a gung ho person there but it can be handled... so the SM doesn't burn out... I would start with the Committee and just tell them what you need...LAY IT OUT IN BLACK AND WHITE at the next committee meeting ... or before, by letter to the whole troop if you want to push the issue to the boiling point... In the end, that's their (the committee's) Job! Seeing as how you can't 'see' a new 'CC' out there...(finding someone good to take that job is tough...and sometimes nearly impossible and the old proverb of being careful what you wish for applies here!)...a far better approach would be to ask the troop committee to step up to the bar and do their jobs...or do yours... If they do their jobs... the CC is a 'signature on the dotted line'....position get them all to accept "CC's" delegation of responcibility and move on. good luck with it...like my daddy used to say, 'it is rarely easy... if it is important!' anarchist ps. have the treasurer give the secretary some money for stamps and copying...the minutes can be 'long hand' and mailed..if her computer is down...THIS IS TRUELY NOT YOUR JOB!

Happy new years all.... meamemg...Now that the issue is 'past history' the "BESTEST" thing you can do is sit all your green bars and troop guides down and let them hear up 'lose and personal'....PARENTS DO NOT DO SCOUTS TASK FOR THEM! RULE NUMBER ONE for all ACTIVITIES should be "IF a boy can do 'it'... the adults don't!... Then have a meeting of your new scouts and explain it to them...so no one mis understands...they should be encouraged to speak to their own parents about 'letting them learn' during campouts...and perhaps suggestion that dad (or mom) stay with the adults... Then it is time to have the TROOP ADULTS get the word out to ALL parents that no scout ever starved to death on a campout, and if they want to cook...cook for the adult kitchen! (nicely, of course...but remember the troop 'belongs' to the SPL...it is his job to make it work and in this case, I think, the boys can be 'trained' to handle this matter well enough next time. If a similar opportunity presents it's self in the future do not be concerned about interacting with an adult...start with the same respect and courtesy you would want exhibited toward yourself and ask the patrol leader (for this example) to stand ready to 'take over for Mr. X' when you ask for his 'help'...take the adult to the side and explain what 'we' are trying to accomplish with the 'program' and in 99 out of 100 instances, I'll wager the dad will 'stand down'. But if the boys know the 'rule' they should be expected to say 'Dad, thanks but thats my job". Then YOU have no problem...so talk to your guys!

dluders, "as Scoutmaster I'm expected to go on all campouts" expected by whom??? Get a life and get some help! While it is nice to have the Scoutmaster around (ours is an RGG {Really Great Guy}), ASM's can 'fill the bill' nicely and in our troop do so regularly! We generally plan two outdoor activities each month except July Summercamp and Seabase/Philmont etc. and August usually 'off' except for planning...even a saint could not be expected to give up 26-28 weekends and summercamp and seabase... Our Troop assigns a different adult 'point of contact' to help with the planning and transport and then attend each campout...We routinely have an ASM (one of about 7 ASMs) running the program side of each event. Our troop committee is filled with folks who like camping and can help in many areas...don't like to winter camp? find an ASM who will tolerate it better or flip a coin for 'cold duty' and swap-off the second cold camp. Keeping busy? Friday night after set up and a small 'cocoa and campfire' activity we hit the sack. Saturdays are filled with hiking, scout craft, if snow...snowball fights and snow shelter fabrication...sledding, though 'good' snow in Virginia is rare...more likely its lashings, bridge/lean-to building, capture the flag and cooking big meals... dinner is usually late...well after dark! Coupled with making camp gadgets for competitions, then a couple of large camp fires (adult and some times two scout fires)more cocoa and coffee and most are ready after a few fireside games, joke/skits, 'scary story'- time etc. to hit the sack... Afraid of scouts not being prepared....use your last meeting before the campout to do a pack/equipment inspection. Require 'camper' attendance with gear! (If the program is good they will come) Use a good check off list for each scout... not the Patrol Leader's or SPL's memory. Your SPL can make a list of everything the scouts missed the first time and do a 'show-me' inspection Friday night before leaving 'home'. Need more blankets? Our Troop trailer has four large emergency blankets (disaster-relief style) in sealed plastic bags...SPL is given chemical heater packs to distribute to 'cold' scouts during his evening 'rounds'. Layering, good planning and follow through make 'cold scouts' at least a rarity (and we have had camps with four inches of new snow and/or over an inch of ice/freezing rain deposited over night... and most of the kids have to be dug out of their warm snugglily bags in the morning. In reality its usually a marginally prepared adult (newer parent(?)) who is cold on our winter camps...and the extra troop blankets... are used if someone is still cold.(funny no?) the chills and thrills of winter camping! anarchist

cajuncody, glad you got it! merry late Christmas! delayed a couple of days 'cause the 'promised' ladies leader shirt never did arrive...(finally got it yesterday...need a tiny yellow den leader style shirt?...most scouters are now wearing BSA tans) left old awards on the pockets (saw your other post...thought maybe you could use them) Do you need more if I run into them? YIS anarchist

some good stuff here...hope it is read! Webelos open house night- we don't do it! we would rather the Webelos II cubs visit 'on their own' (after a call to the SM of course). We usually seat the Webs with a New Scout Patrol from the previous year and just go about our business. Nor do we want to give an impression that the troop just sits around and has "fun" stuff going on at all times....we would rather the new boys see us with all our warts...and know what our average Boy Scouting night looks like... We do have a Webelos 'day' however at a very 'close-in' campout in November each year and invite several Webelos II dens from several Packs to visit us. (They are encouraged to camp in adjacient campsites if they would like...but separate from our unit.) At this Webelos visitation each of our patrols has chosen a skill to teach, designed a 30-40 minute lesson plan (for SPL approval) and we 'cycle' 5 or 6 webelos (at a time) through these skill classes, feed them a hotdog lunch and plays several scout games. The packs that campout are invited to play a round of night-time capture the flag which our boys seam to love more than any other game. Better than an open house? The Webelos and parents get to see a typical 'full troop' camp, our equipment investment and by way of example our uniform requirements and our adults get to answer questions from parents while plying them with camp coffee and hot cocoa. We also visit several different Pack's meetings during the year with a patrol that sets up equipment for a small 'exhibit' camp and anwsers questions throughout the that meeting from all cubs and parents. BUT IN THE END, if your boy is not happy in scouting the best program from the parents view may not be what best for the boy...tread softly...talk it out and remember in most cases these boys are bunches smarter than we adults like to give them credit! They can change troops if they make a bad choice...so be careful about bad mouthing different programs (burning bridges before they are crossed)

Yes they work! And in many different ways! Yes they are heavy but if you have two boys and the box has built-in handles it... is NEVER a real problem (usually have to stop small boys from trying to lug it by themselves...instead of teamwork/buddy). Many of our boxes are OLD -12 to 15 years old and still holding up! Most fit in a car trunk or SUV or pickup bed so trailers while nice are not required...(although we have two real dinosaurs from when the troop did 'troop cooking'...they are now 'adult kitchens'. I am at a loose for the need to be waterproof or weather proof...a little water here abd there doesnot hurt wood that is painted...if allowed to dry...unless we are the only troop in this thread that 'sets' a rain fly upon reaching camp which we always do! Even when backpacking!...Our boxes rarely GET wet???? QM should not do clean up-patrols do that...each year the patrols also have a oportunity to redecorate their boxes along side the NEW SCOUT PATROLS, patrol logos, even names of the scouts...fresh colors, paint, clear coat; it can be fun! OUR Patrol Boxes contain a few non-perishable staples,and in compartments hold cook set, utensils, stove, hose, trash bags, 3 small wash pans, box of zip locks and a zip-lock with matches, salt, pepper etc. our Dutch Ovens are stored separately in the trailer. Like most 'posts' here, our car-camp food travels in 'patrol' rubbermaid boxes, with snap down tight lids and coolers...and consumed. NOte that cardboard boxes do not pass muster at many National Parks now days. Many require all foods stuff to be stored in fairly weather/small animal-tight containers...or your unit may be asked to leave ..or worse...ticketed! Our Patrols keep their 'tuff tainers' (or whatever) at the grubmaster/patrol leaders house. Each Patrol cooks for itself in it's own Patrol area under a rainfly. At many camps we have 5 to 7 distinct campsites 'set' (including the separate 'adult' kitchen'. The patrols, not QM, keep everything organized and clean with just a little oversight from the SPL and Quartermaster. ps. utensils are patrol responsibility. Each New Scout Patrol, as part of it's first "shakedown campout" purchases staples and the utensils that it will use for the next year (at least)...Lose them and the patrol replaces...not the troop. hope this helps... anarchist

9Muckraker7, It only takes a couple of leaders to have a campout! (and that is for transport!) Ya wanna do it?... make it happen. Try some of your senior scouts...ask the SPL to 'float' it at the PLC...if that does not 'fly', help organize a Patrol level campout...'less drag' anyway... AND HELP THE BOYS MAKE IT HAPPEN... monitor their planning, do some behind the scenes 'worst case' planning and let 'er rip! It can be (almost) the best camp of the year! (I am partial to our canoe camps...guess, I'm getting old) anarchist

Hi ho and a merry season to all verbal warriors! Having done the Webelos 2 thing... years ago (twice) and now serving as a Troop Committee Member and still Assistant Cub Master...(can't find enough willing cub parents)I can say from both sides...in the end it should be up to the boys. Dads can look for 'red flags' but the boys have to want to be 'with' the troop...any thing else is asking for a bad outcome...MOST boys WILL go to a home troop...where their 'buds' go... That said... As a Committee Member I generally 'sit boards' for most of our new scout's first few ranks. One of the questions I pose during this interview is 'what made you want to join this troop'? To paraphrase a game show host...'The number one answer is.... "the older scouts made me feel welcome!". Low down on the list is "my dad said this was a good troop!" Looking at a few of our 'failures'(boys who left scouting) most of them were in the troop because "dad wanted them in our troop" or 'even in scouts', while most of their webelos buddys went to a 'closer' (home?) troop. If the boy picks unwisely...he can be usually 'encouraged' to make a change a 'do over'... but from what I have seen, if dad is the true 'selector' the boy will not give a second troop a try...no science, just seven years of observation. But, the reason I jumped 'into' this thread is for the 'Webelos I' leaders and other parents looking this subject over, as well as a few troop leaders who might be interested in recruitment and retention. VISITING MULTIPLE TROOPS ONCE IS NOT ENOUGH! 'Love' is not necessarily something that 'happens' at first sight! Troops should offer 'get togethers' and 'outdoor events', inviting local WebII dens to visit. Troops should also offer joint training activities (little classes in scout skills) and make annual pack visitations by the troop or at least a patrol. Just having a webelos den visiting a troop once is really 'rolling the dice'...it might be a good night for the troop or it might be a big disaster (we all have them from time to time). Your boys may be spending the next six or seven years with the Boy Scout Troop...it is important! Web leaders... contact local troops and see if they have outdoor activities planned for webelos visitations ...even if they don't, perhaps they would like to have you visit for a few minutes at one of their local campouts. Make the extra effort to take your boys (and parents) to visit a couple of District BSA camporees, watch a few troops in action, visit them at their camp sites...see what is really going on...what does camp look like? How are the boys handling clean up and the district activities? Start off by asking the District for a list of the troops/SM's and where they meet to get an idea on what may be available to you. Then ask the troop if they are going to the camporees...ask the SM if you can make a quick visit...I doubt if anyone would say "NO"...(remember that they may have a time-table to keep to so expect to spend time with a 'left over ASM' or even better; a parent(!), if the SM is busy). THEN make the troop meeting visit(s) (or two)...anything less is a dis-service to the boys. good scouting

soory to hear about another 'on life support OA lodge(?)...or just the district chapter (I hope). I'm thinking that like some scouting programs it's usually a district or unit problem. Here I am sure it is mostly a district 'thing' with a 'blind eye' from council (folks around here always say council looks at our district as a poor cousin)! But district politics being what they are we just keep our heads low...blow out the competition at District camporees and try to build a Troop program that in the words of a new Eagle has gone from being a 'care-less camping for older scouts' troop to truely AWESOME adventure (almost gives me tingles) Back to OA...Councils/Lodges need to take stock...particularly of the 'out of the way districts' there seems to be a terrible waste going on...At Courts of Honor I see lots and lots of Arrow sashes...but few Arrowmen.

Gosh, we camp at least once a month, rain/shine/snow...trouble is in Virginia sometimes we have late January days with brutal 73 degree afternoons! and fifty degree nights...such abuse is hard take...Seriously though, we love winter camps and many of us pray for snow! ( My wife says I am simply training to be homeless after she tosses me out!) COLD weather is good to reinforce the need for planning and good execution. (And if it snows the guys have a tradition of making a hugh snow ball (or two)and blocking the Scout Masters easy escape from his tent the next morning)! The older boys still talk about the winter trip, long ago, when the water bladders froze so hard it took three days to thaw them out! we usually tie one of them into a ten/fifteen mile hike or a cave crawl so its not all just building fires and drinking cocoa (though that can be fun, too). I agree that newer scout parents can be the biggest challenge. Even though their sons have had oportunity to camp 14 to 20 nights by December they still feel 'Junior'is too young...(these are the same parents who remind adult troop leaders that there are poisonous snakes in the woods of Virginia)...Many boys do not like the cold temps, and while my #2 son does not like 'cold without snow', the 'now annual' Klondike has seemingly captured his imagination! Keep the coffee and coca flowing! anarchist

ouch...OA...sore point in my return to scouting. our district (our council/our lodge?) has a weak OA program...may or may not show up for troop OA elections...tap outs are a joke and ordeal is not anything to brag about eather but the real downside is our OA seems to do nothing... Oldest son, (very good scout, great skills if i do say so myself) did his ordeal and 'we' (him going me driving) went so far as to become the troop OA rep(s)...district meetings were 'on again off again, sit around and do nothings' After seeing nothing and getting nothing...and four months after paying the non prorated membership dues he gets a bill for the new years dues... Oldest son has a typical teens over developed sense of right and wrong and that really burned him up...after emails, calls to district and a visit to council he recieved no good explaination..."pay your dues and wear the sash...that's the way ist is..." so he didn't pay and tossed the sash in the trash... In the late spring our 'district minister of education and OA leader cornered #1 son and asked why he wasn't 'participating' and while I did not witness it our SM recounted that #1 son was honest, respectful and determined with his negative response. Later when our troop 'elected' the 'ol'trouble maker' (me) for a tap out as an adult OA...I had to follow my son's principled example and decline... As a young scout I ALWAYS looked up to our troop arrowmen but over the course of the last forty years the OA around here has seemed to fall on hard times... but permit me a last little dig...when 'oldest son' was about to cross over to Boy Scouting we had a District webelos weekend. Complete with what was to have been a dramatic campfire with an OA dance team.... two OA boys showed up, one who could not dance and one who couldn't keep a beat (and both who could not get their bonfire lit)...remembering back to my scouting days I explained (to oldest son) that 'things some times go wrong'(stuff happens) and the OA lodge probably didn't have enough time to get a 'back up group' together...Then, Sunday afternoon, as we are pulling out of the campground we discovered that the Council OA Lodge had an 'OA weekend' (not an ordeal) right across the road with literally dozens of 'arrowmen' available to lend the District a hand...but they just couldn't seemingly get it right...go figure so to answer the opening question... My son wasn't and I could not...

SemperParatus, Let's see (not to beat a dead horse).... #1. Annually we provide waiters and bus-boys, dish washers and cleanup staff for the CO's big church fund raising supper. We build and maintain trails for devotional walks in the 'wood behind the church', built and rebuilt the play ground.... #2. never miss Scout Sunday (even though it is usually a different day than BSA schedules, also do the Vets. day presentation for them each year ( and only three of sixty scouts are members). #3. CO/IH and COR are on our invite list for everything. #4. provide info for church handouts and local news articles...that usually when we see the COR (after a news article appears in a local paper) #5. COR is very old ex-scout who was a new scout in out troop 53 years ago (when troop was new and had a different CO) #6. See #1. #7. Do an annual Sunday Charter presentation #8.Unit report - Part of Quality unit package at semi annual church business meeting. #9...not sure on this one ( #10...caving instructor from church as well as aviation #11 yes, and each year we set up an exhibit campsite on the church grounds for their annual community picnic...how easy can it get (no one camps with us...we even hold a scout cooking contest and let CO supply judges... gosh and this fall the CO moved an outside preschool operator into the rooms we had been sharing with sunday school classes for 19 years...Go figure! And now they wonder why we are looking for a new CO.... Roll on!