anarchist

Cajuncody, If the CO has signed your application you are it. Ask for the keys in front of the CO/CC and others... Bank account, you know which bank? Ask for a change of signature card. Usually most Banks accept a change of officers affidavit (usually their form) and the account is done...(hear the swoosh) with out old treasurer. The ask for the last five years account history (expect to have to pay for this) look at the check register and ask the old CM for the gear or 100% repayment...say in 48 hours or you call the local law enforcement folks...a petty theft investigation can really screw up his life...I'll bet he tumbles.... Like it was said above sometimes coups are not bloodless... good luck... Tell me how many door to the church and I'll raise the money to change the locks.... YIS Anarchist

Fire pistons are pretty cool. I saw my first at a Black power get-to-gether about five years ago...Price was about $45.00 and some of the 'custom' made jobs were $100.00 (horn). You can get kits or plans off the web to build you own...I just stuck to spark blasters and chemicals...lot cheaper...

Hey guys, this is kind of interesting isn't it. Excepting sex offenders most violence, theft or arson "perps" are just 'stupid' kids who got caught. They made stupid choices in friends and recreation activities (you know..."come on, it'll be fun" types). Many troops have boys who have 'Juvie' records that are sealed so we don't even know they are with us...and most are OK...During my heck raising days judges told lots of my peers..."GI or Jail - Take your pick" and most did alright. We want to help boys...and for the most part this seems like a way to do it...

Torveaux, Excellent Post! Sometimes change comes one small step at a time, which takes heart and vision. Heart to stand the frustration and pain of slow transition and vision to see beyond your own (son's?) needs. Wisconsin is lucky to have you! Y.I.S. Anarchist

Welcome Why?...ASM and advancement chair?...Why? One job is better...for you and the troop. if you can have the CC find a 'free hand' to do advancement...ASM's need to be 'on the ground' with the boys and it gives someone who doesn't want to 'push the program' something to do! good luck

what airport is your wife flying into (Washington National oopps I mean Reagan National or Dulles???( hopefully not BWI).... She should be able to get on to the base with very little problem (US ID (passport) or Valid drivers license...I would think she will only get as far as the troop drop off area, where you would have to meet her...(Check with Jambo office) If you find need to meet her in Fredericksburg Va. the easiest place would be where Interstate 95 crosses US route 1, She would exit towards 'south bound' Route 1 heading to MASSAPONAX. State Route 17 which passes Fort A.P.Hill 'hits' Route 1 at virtually the same place....there is a McD's and a KFC and a WALMART,a movie theatre and an outlet shopping center and a couple of Gas stations right there also.... PM me if you need more info on this...

Gross out time!!!!- if you are sensitive turn off the computer and read a book... First I agree with OLD WET BLANKET that you don't want to humiliate the boy but it could be a great time to 'bond'. A few years back, on one of our favorite events, a beach campout, a new scout came up to me after lights out (while we adults were solving the worlds problems around a great campfire, and told me he had awoken to an upset stomach and had thrown up a 'bit'...(why he selected me-I'm not the SM...just the bearded old guy I still don't know) As we walked back to his tent to scope things out, I asked the usual questions...had he eaten a lot, did he fell sick before bed.... ("No, No"). His tent mate was still sound asleep... on first inspection...little on a fleece pullover little more on his sleeping bag, I told him to relax we would handle it...He was beginning to shiver a bit so I gave him my jacket and sat him with the adults next to the fire...and when back to straighten things up. I pulled out he fleece and the sleeping bag to whipe them off and ther in the middle of his closed cell pad was the largest pile of steaming barf I had ever seen...for someone who said he didn't eat much dinner he sure produced volumns... I called the SM over to have a peak and then cleaned it up (tentmate still asleep) and after a f couple glasses of water put the lad back down... This boy (a good natured kid) had recently seen his parents split up, was living with mom and was having a little trouble fitting in with the other new scouts... so, after talking it over with his Mom and the SM, at the next troop meeting I awarded him the Best Barf-er award (one of those plastic barfs from the novelty store...he loved it (and brings it to most campouts to try to slip into the adult kitchen) His tentmate got the 'I slept through the barf bomb' certificate also! We then had to discourage talk of trying to barf bigger than nick at the next camp...I told them it was so impressive that I had retire the trophy.... The VAST majority of kids love this kind of stuff...even if you have to be careful how you do it!!!!

We regularly show up along with other troops at certain crossovers... with troop "A" doing their thing and Troop "B" doing their thing...and us doing 'something-or-the-other'. We make a point of trying not to up-stage the 'home troop' but we ask the CM to have the other troops do their ceremony and we do ours...never had a problem yet! Most CMs want the Webelos to have a good night and do their best to make it happen!

oldman, this is a perfect time to rope all the parents who are not on the committee into volunteering! tell them the SOB's (sons of Baden-powell-ha! got you...)at District said you had to have more parents inorder to get their kids advanced! You can also approach the COR and the CO for warm bodies...and indirectly get them involved! look at this as an opportunity not a problem! TGIF anarchist good luck...

SemperParatus As always thanks for the information

Please do get in touch with the Cub Master or the CC of the pack to find out how elaborately they "do it". It should be a 'joint ceremony. Our Pack crosses over the month after B&G so that it can be a big deal for the Webelos II's...the Pack has a bridge and the Troop ( SM, usually, SPL and a whole patrol or more) waits on the other side. The Webelos crossing over are called one by one and at the edge of the bridge, the Cub Master takes off their neckerchief and gives them a Boy Scout Handbook (the packs parting gift to the boy) CM says a few words about the boy (as this is happening one of our boy scouts has quietly crossed the bridge) The boy scout takes off and places His Troop neckerchief around the shoulders of the 'new scout' (actually GIVES- this is our troop gift to new scouts) and leads him over the bridge where he is welcomed by the SPL and the other Boys scouts. We do this with a differnt Boy Scout for every new scout crossing over). After all have crossed, the SPL leads the New scouts (and old) in the SCOUT LAW and Promise the Scout Master says some nice works about looking forward to the exciting times the new boys will have and we thank the Pack for their boys...fini WE Have done this for as many as four different packs each year, for anywhere from 1 to 10 boys at a time...if a boy wants to cross to our troop, we will send a patrol, a stack of new neckerchiefs and an ASM/Sm to welcome him. be prepared...

Instituting change in a 'successful', entrenched operation is NOT a two or three year job...try 5 to 7 years and that is if you can hit the ground running with your 'new idea' group. Nor is it for the faint hearted or the 'I'm gonna take my ball and go home' types...You have to be committed to the TROOP's long term well being...not just your sons 'term' in scouting! And after stiring things up, be willing to stay and help put things back together...for as long as it takes. I am gonna say something here, in defense of the "Twits" running CNYScouter's troop...we do not know what has gone on in the past...Maybe they tried "Boy Led" and failed once...or many times...Maybe the boys just didn't get it...and the leaders just didn't have the knack to put it together...Maybe no disgruntled parents were willing to keep trying or take over and set things straight ...and the program just slid into a comfortable rut where these 'Scouter' types felt they we at least giving boys some scouting experience and that was better than nothing...Maybe... and as I have said before; can anyone here say having a less than perfect scout troop die is better than have no scouting program at all? That said, two things must be done if the current 'program side' (SM, ASM's) of the troop is unwilling to change. First, as in all good fights, infiltration must take place and it must be massively done. YOU NEED MANY LIKE MINDED SCOUTERS. Every suggestion and task undertaken must be manifestly apparent to all, including the 'old guard', as being done for the good of the boys. CNYScouter will need many, many Assistant Scout Masters trained and on board with the system...He will also need a large number of trained and active Committee Members, this will be democracy in action. Then the CO and COR must be educated, slowly, perhaps, but surely with the benefits of 'Boy Led scouting'. ONE OR TWO TRAINED LEADERS WILL NOT GET THE JOB DONE...in this instance. This is usually accomplished by enlisting new scout parents as they come into the troop (or before)...and is supplimented with ouder scout dads who can be brought around to seeing the benefits of Boy Led Troops. Only by stacking the deck can you hope to succeed. On the program side, start with the younger patrols and the NSP's. Educate them and guide them into the patrol method...start (and here is part of the commitment part) doing as many or more patrol activities than you have troop activities...get the boys planing on small scale (hikes and patrol camping, etc.)so they are ready for larger 'fish'...If you can make this work, you may find more of the 'old guard' wanting to give it a try. If you can 'convert' the CO the first part of the action is nearly over, and you can stack both the committee and the ASM with 'believers' When you are 'ready' A meeting of the troop adult leaders, Program and Committee needs to be called (this may be two or three years down the road depending on the numbers you can get on your side)Have the DE and DC on board and on deck. A new program is offered up and the success of the NSP's is used as evidence it works...the meeting will hurt some feeling and may even see some resignations but if you have done the ground work the program will change and the Newer scouts will be ready to go full bore. CNYScouter, are you willing to spend 9 or 10 years with the troop? If not, find your son a new troop. This can work, I took part in a reeducation effort...it hurt a lot of feelings and even drove some families away. But 8 years later we are successful and have doubled in size. We routinely have 75% participation in most weekend activities and take nearly 90% to Summer camp or High Adventure camps each year. Thanks to a large group of 'newer, active scout parents', who saw a lot of good in the original program but wanted the boys to 'do it right', we were able to start seeing real results in two and a half years. Four years out we knew we were winning...but most of the 'old guard' was gone...it was no longer fun or they had 'burned out'. 9/10 years later we still have to be on-guard...Most adults have a strong distaste for the lack of 'perfection' and the appearance of Chaos that sometimes seems evident in Boy Led Activities...and we constantly have to educate well meaning parents who want to help by doing it all for the scouts... good luck, CNYScouter, are you up to the challenge? been there, done that and bought the tee shirt (still paying ten years later). Anarchist

WHy do all four wheels have to touch? why is wheel spacing critical? Why is winning so important...? PWD is about fun and chance and we have seen enough 'box cars' win to know chance has a lot to do with every heat... we spend a lot of time in our pack letting the parents know that WE will know if its little johnnies' car or big john's...and there is less and less each year...we also spend a great deal of time with the boys letting them know it is about working with Mom and or Dad more than winning...and our rules: weight, length, ground clearance (for the track) and BSA wheels and axles...thats it....go have fun... one of my proudest moments with my older son was when he was left out of the final heat at our PWD...about nine years ago... he had qualified for the final(we thought there were two heats being run and it turned out the 'race officials' had put in the wrong car...the race was over and my little 'bear scout' was nearly in tears... the committee was not gonna run a new heat... we spoke quietly for a few minutes about adults making mistakes just like kids and he just sucked it up wiped his eyes and told me that he would run again next year... could I do any less?...I could have raised a stink...but his bravery and attitude put things in a different light...winning was not everything he had a Den best award and won his den heat...that was enough for this year...next year he would just make sure the adults did a better job...(and so would his dad) learn, teach and move on... there is more to scouting than PWD...the regatta is more fun anyway!

Gosh the memories... I feel your pain...and that is not being trite... My best Webelos II scout never crossed over...he showed up for the Arrow of Light but did not want to go into Boy Scouting and it nearly killed me...he (and his Dad)were my best buds on most events. He has ADHD and had many issues with outdoors events but he tried! He was usually the first to earn awards, ranks and pins. He had food issues and a speach problem and was very shy... when his dad told me I was 'down' literally for several weeks...where did I fail this boy???? His dad and I talked; his mom and I talked and then I talked to him... He wanted to try new things, his dirt bike was calling to him...he wanted to race, he was worried about the other boy scouts and his 'issues' and he was worried about the work involved with Boy Scout advancement. I did not try to change his mind (the heck i didn't) I was low keyed and told him my door and the troop would always be open to him...heck, I still work on him when I see him but after five years now its just 'what we do' when we run into each other. His dad supported his decision and help foster his dirt biking...Kid is really good! Just not a scout.... both Semper and foto nailed it, but go with parents first.... good luck and thanks for all your work...with all the boys

Good gosh , KF5WT don't you think your post was a little over the top? why does 251 need to explain anything to you??? A troop is not going to be 'in trouble' for telling scouts 'no' and if the adults are prepared, what is the point of 45 cell phones?? we don't take along 45 comprehensive first aid kits???? OGE and others-(me included) don't like long lists of "DON'TS" but be real have you attended BSA training...half of it seems to be what we can't do... and as for telling someones son what he can and can't take..why not? It's most camps' policy and we say don't frequently...no food in tents, no candles in tents, no sheath knives, no kitchen sinks... First, Our Troop also discourages cell phones...and Games (we allow CD players on long rides but they go in the packs when we hit camp...(and if a boy listens at night with his 'ears' on, no fuss is in order). We generally have 5 to six adults on each activity and our SPL and ASPL carry phones...for 'official' business... Electronic games and entertainment HAVE NO PLACE at summer camp nor on any outdoors scouting event...as to the boys being able to wisely use their 'toys' or the fallacy that an exciting program will trump a gameboy...it is just not true for many many young lads...(its a maturity thing) those games and players etc. seem to feed a 'reinforcement loop' in these guy's brains and tend to trump any new skill that requires work and/or supplies anything less than immediate gratification. My youngest would rather play videos than breathe (or eat)...the only trump card for him is fishing... In our family, I have a house rule that when I am on a Scouting trip and he does not want to attend...it is his choice after all, he is limited to two hours of TV and or Video per day (this is 'Mom enforced' and she is a teacher who hates electronics)...he generally 'tags along' rather than be trapped at home with Mom and without his video 'fix'. Scouting is about outdoors adventure and leadership and character building...there is nothing being 'built' by "grand theft-auto"...nor is leadership being taught by HALO 2 there is no adventure in calling home to be tucked in...or more the case with older scouts to whisper sweet nothings in her ear.... finally, homesickness...my observations: the scouts cell phone feeds home sickness not 'helps' it and that is a two way street...Moms and Dads can get the 'fever' (as can girl friends). In our troop We would rather the Adults or the (SPL and the adults)handle the 'cutting the cord' (no pun intended) issues face to face with the scout....ever wonder about why so many stories circulate about the pay phones at camp being broke??? and PS we don't inspect packs either, after all a scout is trustworthy and obedient right?

If you can't find the game...make up two plaques...One with maybe a large Bandaid or crossed bandage X (duct tape?) over a pink zipper (incision)... and perhaps an plaque with an old sneaker glued to it with a rubber knife glued through a 'slit' ie. the messenger for the stabbing pain! just a thought

Go buy the pin and award it at the next Pack meeting and dare the CM to say anything...there I got that off my chest! Sorry, I'm in a bad mood today. No the CM can't not award a pin...show him the requirement check off...and remind that we can not add nor subtract from the requirements Call the CC...and the COR and the CO if needed to slow the CM down. Remember the CO is the power here, they control who does what in the pack not the CM. CMs job is to lead, to schedule to facilitate, to help, to train,to suggest, but...not to dictate. Asking for Den dues is just plain wrong if those dues are for the supplies the boys use...asking for an accounting is not...my sheet showed that during the arts and crafts phase of my den leading it cost me about $10.00-12.00 per week out of pocket in addition to the 'dues' and it was worth every dollar! But some dens might be having a 'problem', so the accounting issue is proper. BUT I would turn it into the CC not the CM. If I was the Webelos leader, I would quietly ask the 'new' Webelos leader to assist or get the heck out of dodge...period. The CM can not appoint or unappoint a DL without the backing of the committee, the CC...and mostly the CO. And the Webelos Leader should also tell the CM to Back off (HE SHOULD HAVE HIS WEBELOS II parents in his corner...right? My WEB II parents would have neutered the CM if he tried to make a change in my program.) Seems a big committee meeeting is called for and Fast... might want to bring a rail, if the majority feels this guy has gone off the deep end?

Time out here! seems to be some misunderstanding about pack meeting/den meeting purpose.... indnajns writes 'we have yet to do anything badge related'...sorry but that's a den activity not a pack activity...Pack meeting is for awards, skits, games and information delivery...not doing rank sign off activities...so I am confused... Small Packs, new pack often have numbers and attendance problems...and behavior issues Ready to roll up your sleeves? 1). need to clear up the CO issue...without a CO there is no pack. Find better meeting area...on B-ball night 14 boys fit into a class room.... 2). get the parents together...have local troop send some baby sitters....er Boy Scouts over to lead the cubs in activities while you lay out the situation to the parents...if the parents can't dive in...you need to look into diving out (to a new pack) or you can just put on the best Bear DL show you can and two years from not cross over with your son into a Boy Scout unit... In the meantime get a bunch of moms and dads together and start calling the local packs, and council offices in many areas packs/districts or councils will 'rent' a track for the PWD...or get some plans and build a track for 14 boys two or three lanes would be enough... nothing like success to breed more!

Program, Program, program! Some observations- 1). many parents, not understanding the scouting program, are totally freaked out when observing the 'control' chaos of a boy led troop (so when being visited stress to your boys the need to 'tone it down for visitors). I sit hear looking at a photo of 5 Cub scouts (four from my older son's den and my younger son) taken YEARS ago. When they bridged it didn't take six months for the PARENTS of one of those boys to decide that the lack of strong structure was no place for their son. A shame. 2). One open house is just not enough...Your troop needs to; provide den chiefs, invite Webelos to joint camp a few times, offer training classes and drop by to help webelos dens with scouting skills...if your troop becomes family it will be good for your troop. 3. nothing succeeds like success...if most of the Webelos II's are going to Troop "A" the simple monmentum of the situation is difficult to overcome. 4.reputation is hard to overcome...even if it is underserved. But never bad mouth another unit or leader...continue to encourage Webelos parent to 'shop' around to find what is best for their boy...USE THAT FACE TIME TO EXPLAIN BSA Program AND WHAT BOY LED means ...and why we do it this way...Plant the seed that 'boy led scouting, like making sausage is not always pleasant to watch' but the results are worth it! and that brings us back to PROGRAM...you want to be top dog?...ya gotta beat the top dog! You need to objectively look at your program and maybe shake out some dust and truely make it shine! Are you in an activity rut? Same comfortable camp and activities each year? Encourage the SPL and the PLC to reach for the stars and then YOU HAVE TO SUPPORT THEM...find a way to make it happen...they want a three day campout...adults take a day off and give them the ability to make it happen... They want to take a long trip? Help them figure out how to do it rather than saying...no! If you have a good boy led Troop and you offer the BEST program...not just a comparable program...THE BEST PROGRAM...you can, in many cases, win the boy and he will bring the parents along...Our current Scout Master was dragged into our troop by his son! He is a RGG {really good guy) who readily admits 'others' had bad mouthed our troop and he really didn't want his son to join a 'bad troop'! But the cool stuff we did and the friendly craziness of our boys and their 'outreach program' (classes and pack visits) 'won' his son...the boy actually said "dad, don't make me join Troop 'A'"... then RGG 'came along for the ride, figuring after a while 'he could always transfer out'...As he got to know us, he decided we were probably 'ok' (not as strange as he had heard) and we seemed to be headed in a good direction... so he signed on to help out! SO ...TAKE A HARD LOOK AT your total program...ask WEBELOS this year what they are looking for- what they like AND what they don't like in your 'offering' (The Program). They are your customers after all! Then ask your SPL to design it...polish it and make it happen... If Troop 'A' does a program 'something' better than you...copy it, improve it, do it better! STRETCH THE ENVELOPE! This will be an evolving process and will take a few years but in the end you will grow a larger (be careful what you ask for) and stronger troop and program! good luck

Heh, heh, heh... and only one hour a week! welcome back and welcome home!

I don't think I agree with Eamonn this time. I would hand each new Cub family a Cub Scout application and one or two Adult leader applications and a unit resource form (what kind of things the parents do and know that can benefit the unit.) Of course not all parents should be Den Leaders but you can have gobs of committee members and after you have run out of those 'named' positions, you can use other parents as idea guys and gals, phone tree operators, transporters, craft helpers, assistant snack passer-outers, camping site 'reservers'...HELPERS...you almost can never have too many. And if anything we have seen in these forums, it is; the units with the biggest problems usually have the smallest number of interested and active adults. SIGN 'em all up, then find out where you can put them to work! also remember that a nomination committee can sometimes nominate the wrong folks...you never know who is going to surprise you and turn out to be a gem in the rough! good luck and thank you for the work that you do!

Our pack pays for ALL BSA approved awards and pins and patches...(with a string attached). If there are books etc attached to the earning of the award...Mom and Dad pay for materials. We pay for 'multiples' in the case of Webelos (If a boy looses one Mom and Dad pay for replacement) now the string...attached If, the parents and scout participate in our fund raisers (three per year show up for two and you're 'covered') We do not charge dues although we are looking at it! If you do not participate the pack still pays for Rank awards and arrow points but parents are asked to fund 'extras'. New to scouting families are not 'penalized' if they came 'in' after a fund raiser(s) but they are expected to be front and center in the new year! Seems to work... we are looking at Dues 'cause lots of folks are tired. of 'selling' sorry your pack is so tight...but the only way to really change things is to roll up your sleeves and dive into the committee and work for that change...from the inside. Sometimes it can take a few years to make that change.

Mjengels, Have you helped that boy sew his wolf badge on yet? I sure hope so! And I expect him to have done with a few arrow points buy the next Pack Meeting...stay on the advancement person to be sure the pack has or orders what your boy earns in time...so he can get 'em and sew 'em on... Then see what you can do to help some of the other boys get a few beads...maybe 'donate' a Saturday afternoon to the den to help them 'up'. Sometimes we need to remember its not the kids fault that they chose the wrong parets, don't cha know! keep smilin'...it makes them wonder what you're up too! anarchist PS don't make me drive all the way up to CT. just to sew on a patch!

Ed, I totally agree with having guidelines...but it appears that they are not acceptable to the lawyers in Texas...(sorry Texans)... Our troop holds meetings on Monday night to avoid as much as possible conflicts with School and club sports/activities. It seems to work (mostly). We even encourage boys in sports to come as they are after practice, rather than having to go home to change (and some show up in team 'colors')...All, to allow these guys to be 'well rounded' and able to participate in many different activities...and I think our program is better for it! Heck, our guidelines only ask for participation in 50% of meetings and Activities (with a Scout Master wiggle room clause for other contingencies) and still we are not PC it seems. I am sitting on a Eagle Board tonight and it is a typical 'boy is a great scout for a few years...screwed up his PoR, disappeared for a year (girls, cars, job) and came back (after he recked said car)to 'get his Eagle' story. Sort of a shame that Nationals can say we 'belong to the CO' when it is convenient for them, but then can hammer us if we try to define 'Active'. I am not a 100%er or even a 75%er, but it does seem resonable to ask a boy to show up to 20-22 meetings (ends up being two a month) and attend 7 or 8 weekend activities in a years time... National is ducking and weaving again..."go on, take the money and run!' to quote the song.

Next year use your co-ordinator, but put attendance on the Dl's... Email and fliers are good but have the DL's hand around a signup sheet at every Den Meeting before the 'hit the pavement' day...then have the DL's assign your routes to each parent or team of parents...have hi-lited maps ready for hand out the week before and the morning of the pick-up (many will misplace). Then quick call by DL the night before as a reminder will lock them in...out troop uses this 'system' and it works! Some times you just have to hit them between the eyes to get them to pay attention...