anarchist

Welcome moxieman, pull up a stump, put a log on the fire and pour yourself a cup of joe...I hope to be able to send our older boys off on Trek somewhere in Maine before long...it's been 10 years since the troop did a Maine H.A. trip...'bout time (overdue) I think! anarchist

Gosh...don't you know "work kills"! Parents are just too soft... they avoid, at all costs, being the "bad guys", doing the less fun things. Perhaps trying to buy affection and assuage (sp?) guilt at not "being there for "X" or missing "Y"? Out-sourcing? bull hockey, cow pies and horse apples! Chores according to talent or interest? Better world? Current projections and statistics show that this coming generation may be the first in this nations history that doesn't have an automatic 'expectation' of exceeding their parents standard of living! Please, Beavah! No mas! Both my boys hate work...both have done chores since they were tykes...starting with gathering sticks and picking up black walnuts in the yard (only those of you who have had a bunch of walnut trees in your yard know what I am talking about). And I really mean they started when they were VERY YOUNG...Both know that it (work) is a family obligation...and both are in heavy demand with friends and neighbors 'cause they know these boys can work! And no, these guys are not saints, and getting them to 'get started' is always a "fight" but it is one that we parents must "win" if we are to instill the knowledge and character they need for the future. They all will not be able to simply "whip out" the checkbook when they have work that needs being done...many may have to make choices on what to do and what to pay for...some may have no choice but to do it themselves... Sometimes I have been known to lay a rather large hammer on top of the X-Box with a note like; "clean the barn" or "trim the yard with the weed wacker" -"failure is not an option"...dad." They generally get/got the message. Interestingly, enough...oldest, now nearly 19 and doing the college thing and living with his "buds", offered to move back home to help me with the chores that a recent major medical event has forced me to "avoid"...(guess I didn't do so bad with him after all...) Youngest, now 17, and I spend part of our Sunday afternoon "renovating" a toilet...changing out the "gutz" and clearing lime buildup in the porcelain siphon 'jet' and flush holes...not the prettiest of jobs! As he read instuctions and did most of the work (with dad offering humorous suggestions)...he would leave something out of his "translation"...when I would bring it up, he would re-read the instructions and say..."What?, Thats right!, if you have the instructions memorized" -"Why don't you just do it???" ...And dear old dad would simply remind him ...if I 'did it'... he would never learn how to do it and one day he'd have to pay a plumber $200 bucks to replace his toilet with a $300 new toilet...and you can buy a lot of video games with $500!" point, match, set! Male bonding over the porcelain! Almost as fine as a morning canoe trip...(well maybe that's a bit of a stretch...) but it was still good. $0.02 worth Anarchist

Interesting topic... Personal feelings - On district camps or "highly programed activities" -Sibs should stay home...period...This is a Boy Scout Troop and NOT day care...sorry, if that bends some noses out of line...but it is my personal feeling. On troop 'family activities' ....even campouts...sibs are great...(another personal feeling) In Reality...?!..."stuff happens" and if you are so blasted unhappy with this (one time?) "slip up" - are you willing to take over as SM and do as good a job? IF not, give it a rest and see if a trend develops...if so then raise a fuss...with the CC. my two cents Anarchist(This message has been edited by anarchist)

Den/ patrol...what the heck difference does it make, really? The boys don't care...My webelos II den called themselves the Sharks...I don't believe I ever heard them once call themselves a patrol...though the SM occaisionally made that slip...does it really make a difference and if they do say patrol rather than den??? And what damage does it do? What kind of "Harm" can it possibly do??? Gosh, you know I always thought part of the webelos program was to transition them in to BOY SCOUTS...Transition (by definition) implies a transformation from "A" to "B" over some period of time. It seems wrong headed to insist that Webelos II dens/patrols are and can only act like cub scouts up until the last moment of cross-over then.. "TA DAH"... they are Boy Scouts? (even that conceppt would be incorrect...After all ...they aren't really Boy Scouts until they sign up, pay and are accepted by the CO and registered with Council) Gosh no wonder units have Webelos to Boy Scout retention problems...culture shock and confusion. The guys need to start thinking about patrol methods and becoming boy scouts(IMHO) from at least their first day of Webelos II (if not even earlier). Thinking is not necessarily the same thing as being or doing...Thinking is the "starting" place... My den functioned as a patrol, albeit with a lot more (as in constant) attention. I did not want them to hit Boy Scouts and wander around in a daze asking Mr.____ what should they do...wondering why the adults didn't "love them any more". I wanted them to start understanding that older boys would be "there" for them on most matters; not necessarily adults. And they would be expected to take a bigger bite out of life as Boy Scouts...and were not just going along for the ride... They learned to cook as a patrol, learned to clean-up as a patrol, and learned to start thinking more like boy scouts than like cubs. Rather than me doing everything for them...I guided them along...It was my master plan but they rotated "leadership roles" and got to practice running meetings, openings, planning meals and shopping. We camped a bit more than most cub groups... I had a wonderful group of parents who were supportive and active in all phases of the webelos transition year...It was a great year in my scouting tenure...And most of my guys were still very active in scouting programs...six years later...so what really is the problem? Besides "words" that is? Anarchist

shortad, interesting...just came from the local scout shop and in digging through the bins...many of the cub badges are two different sizes...it looks like the margins of about hallf the badges are not trimmed to the edge of the embrooidered edge...that could be creating part of the problem...but the guides show some over lap so do not loose any sleep over it... BUT..._ _ _ _ _ the patch holder. Geejz, teach your son to sew...It is a life long useful skill! Heck, I hand sew better than my wife. Start with a piece of felt and large needles with twine or knitting yarn...and after two or three attempts he will start to 'get it', then switch to real cloth and then to his shirt...If you must- get the "patch magic" and "glue" them in place... then have him sew the corners to start..and move down the patch as it loosens (and it will)...lets not start off looking for the easy way out so soon... When I was a cub...Mom sewed my troop patches on and my numbers...then she sat me down and led me through it...when I was done she let me know that it was my uniform not hers...when I was a boy scout I even graduated to washing my own stuff...she really liked the "be prepared" mantra and made me "be prepared" for the non-domestic, school teacher I eventually married... gotta love that woman! Anarchist

welcome aboard, squid....;>) hope you enjoy the ride...just buckle up and keep the "fowl" weather gear handy! Lots of good people here...and then there is my kind! Anarchist

Bill_Draving, Mike F is right on the beam! Relax a bit an sniff out the lay of the land. More important than the PoRs (positions of responsiblity) right now is your son settling in to scouting, getting to summer camp for his "brown sea program" and beginning to work on skills and rank advancement...learning the ropes so to speak... In many cases, his hard work in scouting areas and being a team member (remember to have a chief you need a bunch of indians)will go a long way to his rising to the top of the leadership pool. Boys are not supid...they see the guys who learn and then turn around and teach others-as leaders, sometimes before we even pick up on it. good scouting TRA anarchist

flmomscoutw3 Assateague is one of our favorite spots also...I suggested this trip to the PLC 10 years ago and it has grown to be the most heavily attended events on our calendar. We don't feed the ponies or the deer and we do take lockable food bins...'course we have to keep the older boys in check -the campfire stories of the blood-thirsty vampire ponies of Assateague have a way of unsettling the younger scouts... back to the thread... One thing I see chronically missing from many of these threads about cost of _______(whatever) -is a real discussion of the scouts earning their own way...more and more it seems to come out of the family budget and I think our children are missing out on something here. A scout is thrifty...scouting used to encourage boys to pay their own way... My boys got the first exposure to any "weird" activity "on dads dollar...first summer camp, first ski trip, first caving trip, first whitewater rafting trip, etc...If they liked it-the next time they had to work out a plan to earn the fees involved...cleaning the barn, helping the widow lady down the lane, extra "duty" at church...taking care of neighbor's animals, cutting grass, hauling firewood etc. Sometimes the chores cost me more than they are worth but the lesson in earning ones own way is important... If they "earn" it- "it" seems to mean more and they are much more careful of "waste"...if its dad's dollar..."heck, lets have rib eye steak instead of pot roast!" food for thought... anarchist

Bill, forgive the long post... the troop you are in has its own ideas about boy scouting that folks in this forum will have trouble with but it is a very old style of scouting...I am not taking a side in this methodology or style of scouting but I am familiar with it (I was in such a troop 40 some years ago...)Today I am a believer in the New Scout Patrol system...but still I understand the old style of scouting... Some realities have to be faced and accomodated or addressed or your tenure with the troop may be rocky... The patrol style you mention has been called by some- "eternal patrols" (never dying) because in theory as older boys quit or age out (18 yrs old) -new blood is pumped into the patrol...ie. new young scouts. So the patrol is always renewed. In these patrols, theoretically, the older scouts take charge of, mentor, and yes sometimes boss the younger scouts ...as they train them to become skilled and vauable members of the patrol. The current fashion -is the new scout patrol where 6 to 12 boys roughly the same age, are formed into a new scout patrol and these boys may stay together for the rest of their scouting career or may as the troop customs hold... breakup from time to time and reform as the mood strikes, forming and reforming different 'cliques' of friends as they grow up and change themselves...In the best of cases these patrols "die out" every five to eight years as the boys quit or age out. "Being assigned to tent with someone"...is not unusual...probably closer to the norm...the patrol leader or maybe even the SPL will frequently assign scouts to bunk together...first to help boys get to know each other, second to prevent boys from becoming 'herd bound' with say "just" one friend, maybe to prevent a particular boy from being "left out" because of some difference and sometime to spread the pain...say you have an "all night talker"...patrol leaders spread the pain across the patrol weekend to weekend so one poor kid does not loose sleep at every camp... Green bar meetings (another old scouting term for leadership council- currently the Patrol leaders council) is a closed meeting in many troops. Sometimes (many times in fact) limited to one adult observer -the scout master. While in our troop all are welcome who have business or would like to place business before the council most troops have the scouts give their concerns or ideas to their representative (patrol leaders) for the Green Bars meeting. "Older scouts took all the positions" in most mixed age patrols "took" generally means a defacto election where the newer scouts are either too timid and/or way out numbered by older scouts who are not going to vote for a "newbie" in the first place..."democracy" is not pretty. In troops using the new scout patrol methodology many new scouts get a first taste of leadership quickly with a rotating patrol leader situation under a troop Guide (older scout mentor)until every one has a chance to lead...unfortunately, after the initial taste of "power", some boys never again get a real chance at the Patrol leader job because other boys will not (for whatever reasons) vote for a particular boy again...its that democracy thing. ...but there are other leadership jobs that are appointed and the ASPL and the ASMs can help there...These job give boys a chance to take a more active role in the operations of the troop without having to curry favor of a fickle electorate. Troop guide, historian, chaplains aid, scribe, quarter master, ASPL, OA representative,etc. finally, As to your comment about 14 year olds telling your son with whom he will tent with and your comment about raising your own son...{AND PLEASE TAKE THIS AS IT IS MEANT AND NOT AS AN ATTACK}...Try to remember this is a boy scout troop not your private family camping. After such a confrontation at one of our events...the SPL would request a meeting with you, he and the Scout master. At this meeting I have no doubt our young Eagle (SPL) would explain unit bonding...and his program for the troop. He would then request you either butt out of his troop operation (note the description His troop...cause it is His troop while he is SPL) He would do this in a very diplomatic way...kid is smooth as silk handling adults...gonna make a great lawyer some day...but in the end the decision would be his -not yours...and I have no doubt that if you made an issue of it your registration and that of your son would be returned to you buy the troop committee and the CO who believes in our program whole heartedly. The notation that "we are a very new scout troop and I think we need more conversation about some of these things"...is another area you may find some heartburn in...for BSA units on some things there is little room for discussion ...there is a thing called methods and aims of scouting as well as program requirements that for many troops and Scouters is etched in stone and nothing you or I say will make a difference...and you learn to live with it or leave the troop-(FScouter aren't you proud of me)...right or wrong its the way things are...in Boy Scouting...some time you have to take the good with the bad. I hope scouting works for you...warts and all it is a good thing for boys... anarchist

shortad, welcome, buckle up! it's a heck of a ride! Don't let the turkeys get you down during the trip (some here will tell you I am one of the turkeys...gobble!) Now back to the regularly scheduled program...being the troop and pack awards and equipment guy, I went and pulled out several awards and one of my sons old shirts... I am not sure what the problem you are having is- but the cub rank patches (tiger, wolf, bear, and bobcat are all the same - 1 1/2 inch squares and a 'micron' or two short of 2 inches on the diagonal (diamond shape -point to point). The basic shirt pocket is about 4 inches from the bottom of the flap "point" to the mid-line point at the bottom of the pocket. The area immediately below the pocket seam and right up against the the pocket seam is for the AOL patch...eventually...but by then your in a tan shirt... Unless you have a radically smaller pocket -two rank patches point to point equals 4 inches and should fit. Four patches tightly 'ranked' together should form a "diamond" roughly 3 inches per side with diagonals (both directional dimentions) of 4 inches... now all that said... on some small shirts the tiger patch will over lap the shirt pocket lower seam...check out Cub Scout roundtable web sites (google them) The uniform insignia sections show an over lap...(just leave yourself 2 inches between the top of the tiger patch and the bottom of the pocket flap and you should be fine...) Have a wonderful scouting adventure with your son! and again welcome to the forums anarchist(This message has been edited by anarchist)

SR540Beaver, didn't miss a thing...but for the discussion sake I just wanted to remind the "lurkers" that as they say in the service "the plan is simply the 'where' you start from when everything goes to _____"(fill in the blank). Some here seem to be surprised that units ask for gas money... for long trips...so I try to point out that plans are not sacred tablets...changes happen and that's life... thats all. In a perfect world it would be nice to set and follow plans -perfectly...but you know, in 15 years of Cubs and B. Scouting I have yet to see any scout plan that didn't have at least one "hitch" in it, besides you plan for a year to trek out to the Boundary Waters...Gas goes to $3.25 do you really scrub the trip for another $40.-$50 per scout? Do you ask the Scouters to absorb it??? No you give it to the scouts and let them figure it out- boy led ... and still fun- Good Scouting... And remember gas dollars go for a good cause... Wall Street along with Opec thanks you for them! Heck we'd just waste it on more coffee and cobbler, right? TRA Anarchist(This message has been edited by anarchist)

cubbymaster, There we go son (or daughter?)...by saying what was on your mind all kind of stuff starts flowing! Lisabob has some good words for you ...(man, saying that didn't hurt near as much as I thought it would ;>) !) Many units are (or seem to be) "afraid" of the CO and try to "fly" way below the radar and in the process become strangers... Sit down with these men...regularly, tell them of your unit's hopes, needs and aspirations...Help them get excited about the work you're doing. Develop a close relationship with the COR. Invite him (if he is not a scout parent) to come to your activities (especially the Blue and Gold and the PWD). As Lisabob says, find ways of "paying back" -a nice way to say thank you is to ask for time each year during some church event to officially present the charter to the CO (with lots of folks in attendance...). We do it during a Sunday service complete with a flag ceremony...seems to go over big! Find out what good works they do and see if your boys can help in some small (big!) ways... Remember (taking a lesson from our kids)...if you ask for something -the worst that can happen is sometimes the answer will be NO! on the other hand...If you don't ask the result is always the same as NO... come back often Anarchist

SR540Beaver IMHO FScouter is "spot on" -let the boys deal with the cost. Plans are plans and are not set in stone...if some outside factor changes- the plan changes! If not you are only planning to fail...If gas goes up the price goes up, if food goes up the price goes up, if airfare goes up...you take the train (sorry). Why should your drivers have to 'eat' the difference? (these folks are very important) Let the scouts deal with it...in otherwords you play you pay... There is a lot to be said for camping close (like living within your means) but some treks simply cost money to do... and everyone should share the pain.... Kittle- many units build cost of fuel (at least in part) into the cost of the event. Now days it is more important that ever...In our unit we decided years ago that any trip over 100 miles deserved a gas fee built into it...the same folks driving to every event carrying 3 to 6 scouts while other parents stayed home and watched the grass grow...can make for bad feelings... For example- Next month for our Assateague Island trek- why should I 'carry' five scouts (none are my sons), and pull the scout trailer over 450 miles, pay a bridge toll and a vehicle park entrance fee ($10.00) my food fee and a camp fee, while another family "stays home" and "gets off scott-free" by paying a $10.00 camping fee and $15.00 for a weekend of food? Just because I am a scouter and have a big truck? keep doing this and before long no one wants to drive...heck, one year (long time ago)we had a driver simply stop coming, without saying anything. It ended up he was 'mad' that all the driving was costing him and his family hard earned cash while others were "free loading" and he was too embarrassed to bring it up.... In our troop we charge all campers (adults included) a gas fee, camping fee, food costs (etc.) and then return as much as possible to the drivers for driving...it is so much more "fair" than giving a driver a free camp out ($25.00 value) for $100-200 worth of gas or Diesel! Does it pay for 100% of the vehicle usage? No, but it helps more than a free camp site... just my two cents Anarchist

OGE HA!...are we really ready to tell them how old we ...are...er remember...er saw in a news reel...er, what was I saying...where am I? Anarchist Guy Rodgers -NBA free throw record holder (does it still stand?) Did it underhanded...one...two....three... four...you had to be there! died a few years back, played about 12 years in NBA was Wilt "the stilt's" sidekick for awhile...had over 900 assists at one point....was the cincinnatti Bucks first real "hero"....(This message has been edited by anarchist)

gwd-scouter, Our adults set up and operate as a patrol. We have duty rosters, shopping trips (usually the same nights as the younger patrols) and our own camping area away from the older scouts (closer to the NSP). The SPL checks and approves the menus (in advance) for all patrols...both to make sure the patrols are meeting the cooking objectives of the troop as well as those of the scouts in that patrol but also to be sure that the "cooking chores" do not interfer with the program (example- district camporees are usually "heavy" with timed/ rigid schedule program events where a large involved meal might result in a patrol missing "program"- so the SPL helps guard against the boys missing out because they didn't understand the time constraints. Patrols get to see and smell adult cooking and on very rare occaisions even taste but the general rule is "Make 'em drool" and before long the patrols are asking to borrow my extra smoker or for copies of our recipies...or some of my sour dough starter... The SPL and ASPL are pampered in our troop...they eat with the adults and they do not do K.P. nor do they pay for their meals. It's literally "on the adults" ...All of our SPLs admit that the worst thing about stepping down from being SPL is having to go back to eating with a scout patrol...(and kitchen duties). All this encourages patrols to cook good food and demonstrates what team work during clean up "looks like". Adults generally have many more pots to clean (prep and numerous steps) but we are almost always cleaned and ready for inspection before the boys are halfway through dinner clean-up. Patrols may invite the SM or an ASM to dinner (or even the SPL)accepting is up to the poor brave souls invited (;>)....) more likely to happen, however, is the patrols bringing samples by for all adults to try...that is... when what they are cooking 'turns out'....I recall a young man who brought a piece of dump cobbler over for his dad to try...unfortunately, he had gotten the directions a bit wrong and dumped the cake in first with the fruit on top...fruit was great! cake was like concrete!... Dad had a spoon of fruit...ummm good! Then went for a piece of the "crust"...young scout while holding the plate for his dad to sample from - deftly 'locked down the crust with his right thumb and said.."you don't want that" just a seriously and "as matter of factly" as can be imagined. Aint this scouting stuff grand?! Hope it helps... Anarchist

cubbymaster, don't mind FSouter...he didn't have his bran this morning! come out with it son...WHAT DO YOU WANT TO ASK OF YOUR CHARTER ORGANIZATION? Lets not beat around the proverbial shrub. What do you want? Its much easier to "opine" if we know what is really on your mind...so out with it! ANARCHIST P.S. Some COs provide money without being asked...and asking is not a sin!

briantshore, It's actually called a "throw bag" (or weight bag) some arborists use the technique with a weighted leather bag to toss small lines up into the trees in order to pull larger lines for 'directing' direction of the fall when they cut the tree down or for hauling up larger lines to allow them to climb up for tree topping and trimming. They usually use an under-hand throw -like girls used to use in the 'dark ages' for basketball free throws....(it's a very effective method by the way for line tossing and for free throws) Anarchist

Ha, thank you for putting me in my place! rest assured i will refrain from offering information in the future. TRA anarchist

JerseyJohn, first, are you looking only for 'canned' -served on a platter activities??? Second, why are your older scouts and the PLC not doing this? I am not busting your chops, but high adventure includes deciding upon/Selecting the trek, planning the trek and executing...not just going along for the ride... The "I HAVE PUT TOGETHER A THREE RING BINDER" line, simply makes me hang my head...How can boys learn to lead if we do most of the work for them?... IMHO, your line should read..."I have given them a binder and I want a few ideas to start the juices flowing"...perhaps I just misread your line...(?) May I suggest, you assign a small trek committee (15-16-17yr olds) to do this investigation...perhaps with some guidance and encouragement from you or the ASM in charge of H.A. But if you do the work; Where is boy led? And how will they ever learn to "own" the program? Your BSA scout shop should have several High Adventure manuals and books to start them out (the field manual is also a good place to start)but it should be their start... Yes, it is/will be more painful and will result in more work on your part "inspiring them" to keep looking; to find more; heck, even to get started! But, if you do not "let" them do it for themselves...your High Adventure program is just an extention of cub scouts...older boys having "program" handed to them on a platter...they are just along for the preprogramed ride... working motto..."If boys can do it, Adults DON'T"...and what in planning and researching can't they do??? A scout could have even posted the same question here that you posted! (in fact, I checked your profile just in the hope that it was an older scout :>( my two cents.... Anarchist (This message has been edited by anarchist)

drmicrowave72, ditto n the cold steel notation... BSA equipment vendors very based on production price quotes sometimes year to year... What are you looking for just that shovel ? a particular use? alternatives? anarchist

Raybz, First I am posting based on very little info but here is my read....Units are human indeavors...like all things we do they are filled with all of our foibles...and it seems like a full moon is always rising.... Let's see...first let's get to the "rules"*** "CC" is not an elected position...Technically it is appointed- by- the CO (IH)...sometimes regardless of what the "unit" desires...and then we trickle down....to the chief cook and bottle washer...The committee does not appoint the CC...(by the rules anyway) Then - the committee is not democractically elected nor is is formed by committee consensus...It is recruited by the CC and approved by the CO (IH)...if we follow the rules... In the "real world" we find these positions (CC, CM, SM, etc) generally filled by either power hungry twits (at least according to many posters here) or by twits to dumb to say NO!...(again by statistical evidence found in these forums...). I guess, occaisionally, the positions are accidentially filled by folks who want to help out but hard evidence on this phenomena is mainly anecdotal, and undocumented. With the plesantries over...I hate to say it,(but, I will)...Stay the heck out of the 'prime' positions...you are unfit for duty...(did I really say that?) Seriously, if you have a temper that is even slightly, or occaisionally or even rarely able to slip out of its leash...you are not suited for a "political" position. Find another way to help the unit! There are lots of jobs that "help" where your unvarnished opinion or even small outbursts do little or no damage...but as they say...don't lose your temper...cause no one else wants to find it... In ten years of troop work and 15 years of pack work I have seen too many instances of lost tempers hurting the units...the CC,CM,SM positions need to be filled (when ever possible, with unit "builders" who can smooth the waters, not stir them up...These folks need to be able to listen to twits 'for hours' without letting on to the twits what they think or telling the twits to stuff it... And Raybz...some of us just are not cut out for "politics"...I for one can not "handle" a political job...I freely admit to loving to pick fights (did I say that FScouter?) I also have a devil of a time "suffering fools". Still my CC's continually remind me that I am one of their greatest assets (nice huh)...usually as they ask me to "sit down and shut the heck up". From your post it appears you seriously "ticked" some folks off and perhaps because of your outburst, they are fearful of your being in a position of "leadership"...Suggestions: if you simply must be the "BOSS" (yes, I use the negative term from the old BSA tapes)...have a bunch of "one-on-ones" with the folks you "scared". If you can not apologize enough to smooth "those waters" you will just have to get over it...unless it is so important that you are willing to tear the unit apart for your own needs? (was I too tough?) my two dollars and ninty-nine cents worth... anarchist

I carry two sheath Knives depending on what I am doing and my tackle box generally has at least two more filet knives (4&6/7inches). For Most campouts I carry a small kabar or Buck knife either are no longer than 7 inches with three inch blades...they are wonderful. On river trip I carry on my PFD a Kershaw river rescue knife lashed to my PFD- 71/2inch total length with 3 1/2 inch double edged blade,one side serated for cutting straps and ropes. Both the Buck and the Kershaw are in "plastic composite sheaths...the old tiny Kbar is my "favorite" and doubles as my 'deer' dressing knife every fall. Last fall we camp along side a troop where every scout (at the the ones we kept meeting) carried large USMC Kabar combat knives...even when they were hosting their families in the camp shelters...they were having a cook out and the scouts were all decked out in the finest cutlery...sort of looked humorous...those suckers looked to be 14 inches long... sheath knives have a place in camping thats for sure and are very worthwhile for white water canoeing... in my book anyway anarchist

nldscout, bull or not... suggest you obtain the insurance policy certificate that the registration dollar gets you...and read it...if you are in a car accident...for a scouting event...YOUR insurance is in line first....then the BSA policy (IF you have covered all the 'bases' (CYA so to speak)...Many camp grounds and assembly places want much more assurance (insurance?) that what is "BSA" typical...and so should you... hence my 'subtle' suggestion we all should look at an "unbrella" for our own coverage... sad but true Anarchist

Gags, Welcome to the wonderful world of "off the top scout accounting".... Your Council sounds pretty normal...our District Camporees general "charge" the scouts between $11 and $14.00 per head...usually depending on where it is held. The policy you "hear" about is for an event rider not the coverage the scouts get at recharter...Each event has specific "loss" potential for the campground, Council, District and you...that "potential" is spread out by having the per scout charge...sort of like having an umbrella policy over and above you home owners and your car policy (you do have one right?) I am not an insurance salesman nor do I play one on TV...but if some one can sue they probably will...its worth a buck or two...then there are patches, campground/site overhead, cracker barrel and supplies, and other expenses...(your District didn't really think you were gonna make any money on these things did it?) Anarchist

cajuncody, truly sorry the turkeys got you down...Having followed your posts from the beginning I know how much work you put into the program...I can't help but to agree with FScouter (got to work on that...it could be habit forming ;>)...If you leave...the turkeys win...and It'll be the boys who lose...I will not say - stay...but if the opportunity presents...you might reconsider...for the boys...(?) As to crap in the (school) work place...my wife is an elementary teacher (32 years) and has had it all thrown at her...incuding being "cursed out" by a preachers daughter...just continue to follow the set proceedures for handling "maturity challenged" individuals and you can't go wrong...in any event good luck to you. And thank you for what you have done for scouting. Anarchist