Hal_Crawford

Congrats to your scout; excellent project! BTW, your troop has a great website. Hal

Coming soon: Merit Badge Drive-thru window at Council Service Center... OK, bad idea but I am afraid that it is just taking the MB Camporee, the MB University and the MB week at summer camp to its logical conclusion. I agree with the posters above; it's just plain wrong. I don't have a problem when merit badges are offered as part of a camporee theme. Sometimes a camporee setting can give scouts access to resources/activities that might not be as accessible in day to day life. I am particularly offended by the idea of giving a prize for the most merit badges earned in a weekend. This suggests that quantity is more important than quality. "I'm sorry I wasn't able to save my injured buddy but I earned six other merit badges the day I got First Aid". But I am preaching to the choir hear; it seems we are all pretty much in agreement (be afraid, be very afraid). Hal

I right this with the assumption that the leader and his wife have one or more boys in the pack. I think before anyone erects a public pillory at the pack meeting they should stop to consider the collateral damage that could be inflicted on the leaders' son(s). I have no sympathy for drunk drivers but I suspect things are already rough enough for the boy(s) and wife. Take whatever direction the SE provides, remove the man from the troop leadership if deemed appropriate (and IMHO it should be) but do it quietly for the sake of the boy(s). If mom wants to remain a leader that is great because it will provide some stability for the boy(s). She and her husband may not be on the best of terms right now either so throwing him out of the unit may not bother her at all... she may have the locks changed by the time he gets out anyway. You have my sympathy;I'm glad I have never had to deal with this. Hal

After posting I decided to look for some real numbers and found our council's 2007 annual report (https://boyscouts-ncac.doubleknot.com/openrosters/DocDownload.asp?orgkey=370&id=46027). Indeed the single largest source of income was "camps and activities" at about $3.4 million. That is a lot of scratch but then look down at Expenses. The largest single expense was Program at over $7.6 million. Assuming that most of the "Camps and activities" income were from camps and that most of the program costs were for camps it looks like a serious losing proposition. There were about 7000 campers between Goshen and Camp Snyder and 3600 Cub Scout day campers. I am not sure what (if any) council costs are incurred for contingent units to Philmont. They seem to be pretty much pay to play but I could be wrong. Hal

A couple of things: To my knowledge there is no officially sanctioned class B scout uniform. You are either in uniform (class A) or you're not. The various activity shirts, polo shirts and tee shirts (BSA or troop) are not a uniform. The best term I could come up with for them is logo-wear. Definitely check with your local health department, comply with their license/inspection requirements and figure any permits into the cost of your operation. It is better than being shut down and/or having to pay a fine. In all likelihood they will send someone to make sure that hot food is hot enough and that food requiring refrigeration is cold enough. If you tell them in advance exactly what you want to do they should be able to tell you exactly what you need to do and there will be no surprises. If you are really lucky, the guy at the health department will be an Eagle scout. G'luck, Hal

Shortridge: I agree with you. I have no experience at running a camp but I see significant costs that are sort of buried in your $492k are the portions of other FT council staff that spend some, most or perhaps all their time working on camp issues. Taking a look at our council website I see an "admin assistant-program service" I'm sure she spends most of here time handling registration for the two council camps (and she does a great job at it too). There is a director of support service who's responsibilities include summer camps. Same goes for the council program director and the marketing director/webmaster. How much of the receptionist's and accountant's time is taken with the camps? How much of the SE's time is devoted to the planning operation etc. of the scout camp? I know our SE spent a lot of time fund raising (corporate, not FOS) specifically for capital improvements at the camps. Time very well spent. We are a large council with a scout reservation (5 camps+high adventure and a smaller stand alone cub camp/training center. The scout numbers are of course higher but the camp staff numbers would be higher too. The capital costs are huge. Consider this contingency: There is an e-coli out break at camp and you a) lose at least a week of income, b) incur lots of additional staff costs dealing with the issue and c) are exposed to law suits from the families of scouts who could have long-term problems due to their illness. Some of this might be covered by insurance but lots of it comes out of the general operating costs. BTW, this is not hypothetical, it happened last summer at Goshen Scout Reservation. Cursed foil dinners! This is an unusual occurrence but such unexpected costs should be a part of a sound budget. Finally, compare the cost of scout camp to that of independent "sleep-away camps". Scout camp is dirt cheap. There is an independent boys camp near Goshen Scout reservation. The prices range from over $700/week for the full summer (six weeks) to close to $1k/week for a three week session. I doubt that anyone is getting rich there. In fact, I think that is on the low end of the sleep-away cost scale. Our prices are in the same range that you cite and I know that the council has been losing money on the camps. I suspect that doesn't count much of the hidden costs of the council staffers who devote a large portion of their time to camp administration. It seems pretty clear to me that the council subsidizes the camp, not the other way around. Hal

BadenP is spot on about the differing agendas of the council and the volunteers. It should also be noted that DE is an entry level position. DEs are often in their first job out of college and find themselves squeezed between the SE and the volunteers in ways they never imagined. Some have no scouting experience while others were scouts as youth but they quickly learn that their job bears no resemblance to scouting as they knew it. The council is all about numbers, scouts, units, FOS$. The volunteers are all about the program though sometimes it is all about preserving their image of the program as it existed in the 50's, 60's, 70's or whenever they were scouts. Scouters are generally very dedicated but they can also be stubborn, curmudgeonly, egotistical and not above threatening to reduce their FOS donations if they aren't getting their way. Too often we forget the scout law when we are dealing with district/council pros. (I've observed all of this from the volunteer side, I have never been a pro though I was a UC for long enough to know that I didn't want to be anything but a unit scouter, no grey loops for me). It is tough for the young DE to sort out who he serves and how to serve them. Coupled with the challenges, the young DE quickly learns that the salary doesn't go very far, at least not in the DC area. Sadly, many don't last long. Scouters bemoan the difficulty getting and keeping a good DE but never acknowledge that to some degree the problem is us. If you get a DE that shows even a glimmer of talent for the job, be kind, nurture him/her as he/she might be the best your ever going to get. Just my 2 cents. Hal

Voyageur: Nice picture. From your handle I sort of pictured you paddling the northern lakes and rivers up Canada way. Didn't notice 'til now that you are a fellow Virginian. Hal

Some neat ideas for anchoring hammocks but I would be concerned about any system that wraps rope around a tree. It is going to dig into the bark. Straps (at least 1") are the only way to go. I use the 2" straps (seat belt width) that came with my Hennessy Hammock. The only problem is that I did not have the foresight to order it with longer straps as the trees in our Eastern forests tend to be of a larger circumference than the standard 42" straps. I think I will probably order longer straps before summer. From an LNT perspective hammocks are great. As long as you use straps or something to protect the bark, hammock camping is lower impact than tent camping. If I hang my pack on a tree then the only things that touch the ground are four tent stakes (two guying the hammock and two for the fly) and my boots. Hennessy's anchor system works pretty well once you get used to it. I roll my hammock into a set of "snake-skins" which makes set up and take down really fast. I am usually ready for a comfortable nap by the time my tent using buddies have started to bend (or break) their tent poles. I currently have about 12 nights of hammock camping under my belt and expect to do about as much this year. We don't usually camp in swamps but finding level ground can be a challenge. The trick is to be able to eyeball level when hanging my hammock over a slope. I spent last Saturday night sliding down to the foot of my hammock as I guessed badly. Still better than sliding to the foot of a tent. Hal

Sharpy: Welcome to the campfire. You seem to have your work cut out for you. I don't think you can be chartered without a unit committee or at least names of a CC and two members. Maybe there is some leeway for a new unit but come rechartering time you should have a committee. Sometimes the DE or council will create a phantom committee using names of people who work at council or whoever they can find. A temporary fix at best. Check and see if there are committee members on your roster. There are seven Tigers so I would assume there are at least 6 other parents. Try to get three to commit to being the pack committee. One should be a chair, one should be a treasurer. Better still, get all the parents to register as committee members. Don't ask for monthly meetings, don't put a lot of responsibility on them to start. A couple of meetings a year, maybe one a quarter should work for a cub pack. You may be getting by now but as the troop grows you will really need the help. This is the way our Cubmaster (a scoutaholic if there ever was one) did it. Council told him that they would not re-charter the pack without a committee. At the pack meeting he announced, "I need three volunteers to register as committee members-you won't have to do anything because I don't need a committee". Three of us dads looked at each other and said, "well we can do that". Two years later the CM's youngest crossed over and the CM went with him. At this point the three do nothing committee members became a CM (me), a CC and an active committee member. I said I could only do the job for a year (until my son bridged) and that I could only do it with the help and support of an active committee. A year later when our sons bridged we left the pack in the hands of an established unit committee and a new CM. My suggestion is that you and your wife do not become the our old CM and try to do it all. It isn't good for you and it won't ultimately be good for the pack. If all this works out when your sons become Webelos you will be wanting to form a troop so that they can become Tenderfeet and ultimately Eagles. You can't do it all alone so start creating the organization and partnerships now. BTW, I was briefly a unit commissioner for a pack that was chartered by a VFW post. They had the same concerns that you do about being chartered by a bar, and we are not a small town by any means. We are a close-in DC suburb with over 200k population in 26 square miles. The more different things are the more they are the same. Good luck and stick around the campfire. I for one would like to see how this all turns out. You are doing God's work. Hal

I just got back from a troop meeting so I am wearing my Switchbacks. The ankle zips are 7". I haven't gotten a pair of the new pants yet but some in our troop have. I like the pockets and belt loops on the new ones but I think I will miss the ankle zips. Consensus of our troop parents is that they prefer the more easily altered legs of the new design.

Parents who are registered as MB counselors can counsel their boys but it should be done as an exception rather than standard practice. It begins to smell fishy to others when the parent counsels multiple merit badges for their son. One maybe two might not raise any eyebrows but eventually others begin to wonder. We had a scout whose dad signed up as a counselor for a lot of merit badges. He subsequently signed off on about 7 or 8 merit badges for his son. Few if any of these were done in a class setting. Son would bring completed blue cards to SM for signature. SM was not a confrontational sort so he signed. There were ultimately questions about whether the scout had met all requirements for all the badges and the concerns extended to other scouts counseled by this counselor. The counselor was ultimately dropped from the district counselor list, the district instituted a policy limiting number of merit badges that a counselor could counsel and our SM set a strict policy of assigning counselors to the scouts. SM signature on the blue card before any work done. Parents who want to counsel their boys are urged to do it in a class setting with other scouts. There was a whole lot of ugly along the way. Nasty e-mails, yelling arguments. It was a big mess in the unit and the district. The boy quit scouts at 14 with 21 merit badges and (as I understand it) no one from the DAC that was willing to work with him on an Eagle project. The kid was really a victim of his dad's ambition. This is an extreme example but it illustrates the danger of the slippery slope of parents as merit badge counselors. It is all a matter of degree and of perception. On a related note, it is disturbing (but not really surprising) that some parents lose all interest in counseling a merit badge once their son has earned it.

All the advancement records that an Eagle board could find in the handbook is on the Eagle application. All requirements are signed off there. This EBOR is creating an extra and unnecessary requirement. IMHO they should have held the EBOR and IF (and only if) there was some question that could only be answered through examining the book they could have deferred their decision.

There is a book on the history of the National Capital Area Council. The council website says that it is available online but that does not seem to work so I wonder if it is out of print. There is also a brief history on the website itself. http://www.boyscouts-ncac.org/openrosters/ViewOrgPageLink.asp?LinkKey=16631&orgkey=1988

We do campfires whenever possible. Songs, skits and a story or two. Fire bans and leave no trace rules sometimes get in the way but we have been known to get by with a lantern. At summer camp we will do a one any night that there isn't a camp wide camp fire. When car camping we have sometimes invited other troops or packs that happen to be camping nearby to join us.

bmcdonald: I too am a side/belly sleeper; can rarely sleep on my back. That said, my Hennessey Hammock is the best sleep I have had while outdoors. The asymmetrical design allows side sleeping if you lay on it diagonally. Very comfortable. The biggest adjustment is the matter of space. It is hard to change clothes in a hammock. I really enjoy the weight savings over carrying a tent (or even half a tent) and a sleeping pad. Sets up very fast, even in the rain. I only use it in warmer weather (tomorrow will be the first time this year) but it is drier and more comfortable than a tent.

bmcdonald: I too am a side/belly sleeper; can rarely sleep on my back. That said, my Hennessey Hammock is the best sleep I have had while outdoors. The asymmetrical design allows side sleeping if you lay on it diagonally. Very comfortable. The biggest adjustment is the matter of space. It is hard to change clothes in a hammock. I really enjoy the weight savings over carrying a tent (or even half a tent) and a sleeping pad. Sets up very fast, even in the rain. I only use it in warmer weather (tomorrow will be the first time this year) but it is drier and more comfortable than a tent.

I concur with both Lisabob and EV.

Given the number of discussions about gays and scouting I was a little concerned when I saw the title of this thread. That could be a bit too much information! Back on topic. I do not think I would enjoy scouting if I was working on anything above the unit level. A few years ago I was convinced to serve as a UC for a couple of packs. I did not enjoy it at all and frankly don't think I was very good at it. The experience pretty much convinced me that I will work with my troop until I am not needed or I just can't do it anymore. At that point it will probably be hasta la vista BSA. Retirement? I had thoughts of retiring in 3-6 years. Now it looks like 9 or 10. I will need that to ensure that I have enough for SWMBO and I to enjoy the next 20-30 years (if she doesn't kill me in the first month of retirement). Fortunately I still like my job.

Shortridge and Eamonn: Legally yes; but it sounds like this young man has not been raised with the level of independence to actually consider that. And who would drive him to the DMV? Whose car would he drive once he actually got his license? I wonder what the parents would say if their darling bummed a ride not to the DMV but to the local recruiter's office and enlisted? Might be the only way he will ever get the opportunity to grow up and get out of the house. Hal

1400: During WW2 my father was briefly in command of a African American labor company (black soldiers, white officers). The battalion CO insisted that every meal be preceded with a scripture verse. One of the men in dad's company knew his Bible and knew what the shortest verse was. And so it was that before every meal the men shouted "Jesus wept, Amen".

vol: My religion does not interpret the Bible the same way yours does. It bothers me that you dismiss any "sect" that doesn't agree with Robert Gagnon's reading of the Bible as wrong. Note that Professor Gagnon's own religion (PCUSA) no longer shares his certainty in the wrongness of homosexuality. Homosexuality seems to be an obsession for him as his CV shows that since 2001 all his published books and articles have been on this subject. Forgive me if I take his writings with a grain of salt. I respect your right to believe what you want to believe and I ask the same of you. Hal

I stand corrected. BSA only excludes "avowed" gays. As long as they know their place (in the closet) they are welcome to join. Again, I hope that this position is not the principle reason why people support scouting.

Kathy: I too have noticed that weather is the principal concern in scout theology. Every grace seems to thank God for the good weather or prays for better weather. I sometimes imagine that God knows when scouts are camping because his in-box fills up with weather requests. SSScout: I love the Robbie Burns grace. Hal

I'm with Mn_scout. We use pumps with chemicals as a backup. With one pump for every 4 on trek we seem to be able to keep up with need and can survive a failure. We don't filter anything that we are going to boil anyway (cook water, wash water). We avoid iodine as some people are allergic to it.