Hal_Crawford

Pack: I wonder, do you teach any survey courses. When I was teaching college I found that the incidence of problems with attendance cheating and plagiarism were inversely proportional to the first digit in the course number. The more advanced the course the more dedicated the students. With Intro to Theatre on the other hand I had a lot of students who thought it would be one of the easier of the options for the Humanities requirement. It probably was but it still required attendance, attention, reading and writing. Sorry guys, its college. I did learn a shocking lesson. Even in a class of 50, I could see way more of what the students were doing than I would have thought possible when I was a student. Whispers, notes, doodling that sort of thing. I would think that even the high tech cheater is going to give himself away sooner or later. They just aren't that bright. The original post on this thread is a case in point. Hal

It appears that there is only one solution left. The ONLY things that the student can bring into the exam room are: Two #2 pencils and their underwear. Hal

Brent, Dan: Your both right. http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/mood_of_america/right_direction_or_wrong_track US headed in the right direction: 35%. Data is current. Context: Up 2% from last week. Up 8% since the inauguration. Yep, context is everything. Hal

Just curious. If these incidents were never reported in the press, how do you know about things that happened some three thousand miles from where you live? I am sure that the protester who's sign implied a threat to the Bush received the same investigation that I hope the guy with the gun did. This is not about conservative and liberal, this is about protecting the POTUS no matter who he is. My dad was a lifelong Republican (OK he did vote for Roosevelt once but it was his first election and he regretted it later) and an Army officer. The only time I ever saw him cry was November 22, 1963. My dad had not voted for Kennedy in 60 and would not have voted for him in 64. He didn't like Kennedy but that afternoon when I got home from school I found him crying in the living room. The safety of the leader of our nation transcends politics. Hal

" I'm sure guidance will be given, I just hope they've though that out." I doubt that it will be and I doubt that they have. I think that Scoutmasters will have to sort this out on their own. It's probably going to be an SM's judgment call anyway. I think the paradox wound be to have the requirement say "show evidence that you have left no trace". I tried that one out on a couple our scouts. They all were accepting it until one said "wait a minute! If you've left no trace then there's no evidence". Bingo! I would hope that every SM should put out the word starting here and now that every scout will practice LNT on every camp out. If any of the new scouts don't know what LNT is they should learn it before the next camp out. Truth is that we should all have been doing this already so maybe it's not such a big change. LNT for front-country is not all that high a bar to achieve and I would like to think that scouts were doing it before they knew what LNT was. Anyone doing back-country should already be aware of and practice LNT. Putting it in the requirements is a good way of saying that "LNT is important and you should be thinking about it whenever you are camping or hiking and ultimately you will not advance if you don't". Hal

I am sure that it got the guy a thorough top to bottom investigation of every facet of his life by the Secret Service and/or FBI. They really don't like things that sound even remotely like a threat to the POTUS. As it should be, IMHO.

"Flag flies 24/7 at the White House, on a naval vessel and on the Moon." ...And almost every used car lot in the USA.

Shortridge: For age limit on COPE look at the table of age appropriateness in the Appendix. There is a note in the younger Boy Scout column that says (in typical BSA vague) "A few Low-Course and High-Course Activities". At our council's COPE courses that is interpreted as High elements are for 14 and over but low elements are open to all Boy Scouts. Our troop recently camped at a church camp that operated a (COPE like)Ropes course. There was one high element that consisted of walking on wire rope bridges from a cliff to a platform on a tree. From there it was an awesome zip-line Back down. If it were a COPE course I am sure BSA would have said 14+ but the camp's rule was 11+. When in Rome....

Here's an idea. It would require a partnership with ARC to make it economically feasible Make CPR certification required for First Class and all aquatics merit badges. The course could be offered at summer camp and through the councils or districts. Scout does a challenge re-certification each year at camp or through council/district. Scout must certify in standard First Aid to get First Aid MB (good for three years). Scout must certify in Wilderness First Aid for Eagle (hopefully before SFA expires). Now that is Being Prepared.

"If someone can give me a valid reason and how it would be SOOOOOO much better, then I will be interested in. " I guess its like the health care debate, it depends on your perspective. If you have a great health care plan you might be on one side but if you are uninsured you might be on the other side. (PLEASE-THIS IS NOT A HIJACK-JUST A COMPARISON) I think that Boy Scouts was probably a better experience for my son because it was boys only. Like SctDad I think there are a lot of lads who really thrive in a girl free environment, especially in the first years of scouting. On the other hand I might think differently if I also had a girl who wanted to do the same neat things that her older brother got to do. We all know that the GSUSA just isn't the same. As it is I have mixed feelings. If the BSA did make the change I would urge gradualism. In the UK it was a unit option for the first 15-20 years. They eventually made coed mandatory but by then I am sure it was with eyes wide open as to the benefits and problems. Hal

I just tried to find the Scoutmaster Handbook at Scoutstuff.org and the training section at Scouting.org. It has vanished. Are they coming out with a new edition? I was looking to see if my copy (2002) is the current one. Hal

Our summer camp does a mass CPR check two nights after flags. Each scout taking one or more aquatics badges does one demonstration. Any scout with a current CPR certification is signed off without having demonstration. If I had my druthers every scout would be CPR certified every year and be current on at least standard first aid (prreferably WFA for older scouts). Its an ideal but it would be challenging to implement. There is another thread about a scout who who used CPR to save a six year old drowning victim. Perhaps he had that skill due to the repetition from aquatics merit badges. Hal

Amen.

SSScout mentions the "wow" factor of the one-handed bowline. I have found that some boys who cannot master the rabbit and hole method to save their lives can learn the one-handed version in five minutes. I'm told that it is a difference visual and tactile learners. It might also be the wow factor and bragging rights make the scout actually want to learn the knot. Hal

It goes back further than this generation. I had a older colleague (and this is back in the 80s) tell me that grade inflation traced back to the 2-S draft deferments during the Vietnam war. "Professor, if I don't get a B in this course I'll lose my deferment" was the common plea. Most professors where not particularly in favor of the war in the first place and did not want to feel responsible for that boy coming home in a box. Hence "B" which means "Above Average" became the average grade. As a college student I was fortunate that my parents were not aware of this shift and thought that a C average was just great. How I managed to get into grad school is another story. Hal

"GSBSA" Is that a typo or a Freudian slip? Note: Girls in the UK have been earning Queen's Scout (equivalent of Eagle) for decades. Girl Guides still exist and apparently some girls choose to be members of both organizations. According to Wikipedia, "The first person to hold the Queens Guide award and the Queens Scout Award was Susan Parker of 1st Brantham Panthers VSU in 1978". That's impressive! Also in the UK, Scouts age out at or about 14. To become a Queen's Scout one must belong to Explorers (14-18) or the Scout Network (18-25). Strangely, Explorers in the UK used to be called Venture Scouts (15.5-20). That changed in 2003 with the addition of the Scout Network.

"Certainly CPR as an issue of drowning (boating related accident) is relevant, but "rescue breathing" is no longer officially taught for CPR--it is compressions only now. " I re-certified in May through ARC and they had not gone to compressions only at that point. Has this changed since May? Hal

"Someone even had the guts to complain to the Dean that I had switched the test! What fun!" I love it! I would like to have seen the look on the Dean's face. When I was a grad TA I had a student (I taught a section of an 101 course) who had a real problem coming to class. After about 10 or 12 absences I dropped him with a failing grade (WF). Mommy complained to the Department Head and the Dean of Students. The Department Head later told me that while I had done everything right the grade was changed to a W so there was no impact to the student's GPA. I asked if I could change the grades of the other two students dropped for attendance, the ones whose parents didn't call the Dean and I was told no. I'll bet that kid is a congressman now. Life just ain't fair. Hal

A few weeks ago our SM handed me my son's partial for Waterskiing MB. My son is 22. Admittedly, his only opportunity to waterski was at camp and in two years there was one skill that he just could not master. He had a good time trying though. Hal

It's new along with LNT Trainer.

Great story Eamonn. I would go with the devil on this one as well. This thread leads me to wonder. Why is it that we teach democracy and citizenship to our scouts but as an organization we model banana republics? We have the ruling juntas and the coups being planned in closed door meetings. What a fine example! Hal

"The lack of training of adults is probably reflected in the lower levels of outdoor skills amongst the Scouts. The biggest problem for candidates to meet the "fires" requirement for Wilderness Survival MB is that the candidates simply are not skilled is starting fires - any fire." YES! This is a BFO-a Blinding Flash of the Obvious. Yet for some reason it is missed by those who establish the training continuum. I can't speak for other geographic regions but in our council a huge percentage of scouters work for the government, the military or any of the many government contractors. We have gotten a nearly lethal dose of various management and leadership trainings. They are all well and good. The problem is when we go on a camp out many of us lack the basic outdoor skills to be useful teachers to the scouts. How can we teach scouts to light a fire with one match if we couldn't do it ourselves if our lives depended on it? Just a case in point. When my son was in scouts I thought I knew something about camping. I had camped as a scout. I got the Handbook and for good measure a copy of the Fieldbook as well. I started reading about how to set up a camp. Hey wait a minute, where is the part about ditching your tent? Where is the part about sending two scouts into the woods with a WW2 entrenching tool to dig a huge pit latrine? Does this mean that the things I learned in scouts are wrong? Yeah, pretty much. I had to realize that I had forgotten a lot and most of what I remembered was now considered bad practice. Hey, they even got rid of the Snipe hunts! I was fortunate to have other scouters to learn from and my outdoor skills are now fairly decent. But there are lots of scouters out there who are the SM because no one else would take the job. They lack the skills and probably know it but lack the resources to get the training. That is who BSA is failing to serve and as TAHAWK points out the scouts are getting shortchanged as well. Hal

"Sounds like a topic for committee discussion. " No. They should probably not discuss this. No one is better at making bad policy for youth than a room full of parents. My experience has been that whenever issues like this go to the troop committee they respond by writing a policy. It usually involves everybody signing something. I am not sure how many acres of forest have been cleared for Committee mandated behavior agreements but I bet we could hold the Jamboree there. I am not saying that you should keep them completely out of it. Here is what you do: Have the PLC discuss the issue and decide a course of action. Of course you will work with them to make sure that their solution is reasonable and in keeping with the Oath and Law. Be sure that they are addressing the problem, not the individual. Assuming that the PLC solution is some sort of policy you then take it to the troop committee and say, this has been a problem, this is what the PLC has decided should be the policy, I support the PLC's decision and I expect that the troop committee will as well. It is probably a good idea to give the CC a heads up in advance as the kid's dad may come off the rails at this point. One other point to consider. This kid may not really want to be in scouts and is only there because his dad says he should. If that is the case then you don't have a lot of leverage but maybe they will quit which just might be the best solution for the troop. Hal

"The only way that I think letting CO's determine the gay issue is to allow them to be more stringent as well as less. So that a CO could say no gays and only certain religious views." I don't actually have a problem with that. In fact they probably have that authority now. As far as I know there is nothing from keeping the unit from dropping leaders and scouts without reason and they certainly can limit who they allow to join their unit. I live a few doors from an LDS church and while I am welcome to attend the district RTs in their church I doubt they would want me for a leader. My faith is just too far from theirs. We have at least one Catholic troop that limited their membership to members of the church. This was more to control the size of a large unit than stamping out heresy but as far as I know they weren't breaking any rules. The only downside I see is that it might cause problems in smaller communities where 95% of the town goes to one church. It could be rough on religious minorities where there is only one game in town. In most places I suspect that there will always be churches (or other COs) that will be open to those of other faiths. So Vol, I think you and I have solved this problem. If National will just sign off (a small technicality) we can move on to the next great challenge. Its either universal health care or how to make sure foil dinners are completely cooked before eating. Now that's change you can believe in. ;-) Hal

"I think that if I had the opportunity to share a campfire with you, Dan, pack, and most others, that we would have a great time and be in much harmony as long as we stayed away from these few divisive issues that we do not control. " I agree. Somebody recently posted something that my grandmother used to say, in polite company you don't talk about politics or religion. Taking those two off the table I suspect we would all be more alike than different. One of the reasons I feel the way I do about the membership issues is that I think it has drawn a lot of focus away from the program. It not only attracts the wrong public attention but it also consumes far to much of the energies of those within the scouting community. I am really tired of explaining all the truly wonderful things that we do and then hearing "But..." I suspect we all would be happier if the entire issue would go away. My gut tells me that if the membership issues were left up to chartering organizations that scouting would probably change for the better. I really doubt that the gay bars will empty out as the whole LGBT community scrambles to find scout troops to join. I doubt that you would see a scout color guard at the head of the Pride Parade. I suspect that there would be very few gays who would want to join and most of them would fall into one of two categories: former scouts and/or Eagles whose lives were enriched by scouting and wish to continue with the program and gay or lesbian parents of boys who want to share the scouting experience with their sons. In my mind neither group poses a serious threat. For many it is a moral (or more to the point a religious) issue and I respect that (certainly more than statistics which you and I both know can be twisted to prove anything). That is why leaving it up to the COs makes sense. You can be sure that the LDS, Catholic or the more conservative protestant churches are not going to approve any openly gay leaders. Other churches and organizations would be free to grant membership based on their on values. Along the way the BSA might find some new chartered partners in Unitarian, liberal Jewish and other houses of worship that have differed with the BSA position. Personally I would like to see scouting move away from the politics of left and right, gay and straight etc. Yesterday a scout camp here in Virginia lost a young man in a devastating fire. He hasn't been identified but he was reportedly a 20 year old counselor. There have been a total of five postings about this tragedy on this forum. How many posts have their been on the political threads during the same period? Maybe we should all step back and examine our priorities. Perhaps we should all remind ourselves what brought us to the campfire in the first place. I think I may go have a friendly cup of coffee with myself and reflect. Maybe someday we will all be able to sit around the campfire have a cup of coffee and talk not about gays or Rush or socialism or Bush or Obama but about how scouting changed the lives of young men we knew. How the awkward kid conquered the COPE course or the shy kid who found his voice, became SPL and then Eagle. I look forward to that campfire. YIS, Hal