Hal_Crawford

According to the president if the Hospital Association of Southern California, illegal immigrants are only a part of the problem and that this maskes the larger issue of the need to insure the uninsured. http://www.hasc.org/lott.cfm?ID=73623 Makes you wonder if those hospitals were really closed by illegal immigrants or by a broken health care system. You know, the one our president says should be fixed. Hal

What an illegal immigrant (or a US citizen without health insurance) gets at an ER hardly constitutes any sort of comprehensive health care. It only applies to life threatening conditions or active labor otherwise it is tough luck and goodbye. Hal

"Sometimes I think that it would be better for me and my family to leave the country, denounce our citizenship, and come back without permission. Then we can go and get lots of free healthcare, free college, free money to sit on our duff. Man that sounds like a good life. Anyone want to join me on that trip". I think you should try that. But you should be ready for a big surprise when you find out that illegal immigrants do not get free health care, free college or free money to sit on their duffs. I'll be looking for you in front of the 7-11. Hal

I found this on the BSA site (http://www.scouting.org/Training/Adult.aspx): "Cub Scout Leader Fast Start Training Prior to running your first den or pack meeting, Cub Scout Leader Fast Start is the initial training course required for you to complete so that you may understand the fundamentals of the Cub Scouting program. There are separate fast start training courses for all Cub Scout leaders, catered to specific leadership roles in the pack. You will learn your specific responsibilities, how to keep your meetings fun and exciting, and what other resources there are to help assist you in planning for your den or pack meetings. This training is offered online or on a DVD. Estimated time to complete: 45 minutes." Apparently it is already required. Same requirement is shown for Boy Scout Fast Start. I guess they are going to start enforcing it now. Hal

Wow, that's going back few years. Hal

I guess it depends on what level of training is required before having contact with scouts. If the requirement is to be fully trained then that would be a serious problem. If what they mean is YPT that is a different story. Even if the requirement were to complete YPT, This is Scouting and the appropriate Fast Start it is still something that could be done online in an evening. Hal

Sad to say but if we drove all who were not trustworthy or brave from the halls of congress then it would be a quiet lonely place. There would be a few left on both sides of the aisle but not many. It would be especially hard to find anyone who is BOTH trustworthy AND brave. Hal

The sound of a scratched record... Kopechne... Kopechne... Kopechne... when there is nothing more to add to the discussion... Kopechne... Kopechne... Kennedy plead guilty to leaving the scene. That was forty years ago. He's dead, give it a rest. Hal

Smithgall: Let me get this straight. The person was denied membership because of a background check. Council has not informed your unit or CO of the details, just that membership was denied. You or someone else has done some independent research and found public records that could be the cause of denial of membership. Good so far? Now, how do you know that you have found the same dirt that BSA's contractor found? Could it be that there was something far worse that you missed? You raise a lot of "what if" questions in your post but what if you don't have the facts? You raise some good questions about what extent the person should be allowed to be involved but you really don't have the information to answer those questions. I would suggest that your CO should ask the council for direction as to what the individual can and cannot do given the denial of membership. They should be able to give you some official direction. As to the non-scout interactions I would be very cautious about what you say to others as you could be on legal thin ice. Hal

Lisa: I am sorry that you have had bad experiences with training. I feel that I have been fortunate to have excellent trainers who presented the material well and only used war stories where they helped make a point and were consistent with the syllabus. When I took SM specific training the trainer made a point with a photo from his first camp out as SM. It was of him standing in front of his scouts and he was clearly holding forth on some important issue. He said that after the campout he saw the photo and it hit him. He was clearly having a great time explaining his agenda to the scouts but you could see from the faces and body language that it was not their agenda. Some were looking at the ground, some were looking away and some were actually looking at him but with blank looks that said "so what?". It was a picture of what adult leadership looks like and I know that for me it drove the point home. Could I have gotten that from an on-line training? Maybe but I doubt it. Sometimes it helps to have the trainer and classmates to point out the errors in the BSA materials. For instance, in one of the courses they showed a video on how to prepare for and conduct a scout meeting. Much of it involved the SM and the SPL. Every time the SM talked to the SPL he put his hand on his shoulder. If this were on-line it might pass unnoticed but in a class several people commented and it lead to a discussion of how YP issues can sneak up on you. BTW, has anyone noticed that in the This is Scouting class there is a slide showing patches from various high adventure programs like Philmont, Sea Base and Tote n' Chip? I doubt that there has ever been a text book or piece of instructional material that didn't have some error in it somewhere. I have also found it difficult to ask my computer to answer questions no matter how loud I yell them. Finally, I don't see how IOLS could be taught outdoors. Some online is fine but I favor a mix. Hal

Apparently this came out in 2006 in a book by Paul Kengor entitled The Crusader: Ronald Reagan and the Fall of Communism. It was written up in the Washington Times (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2006/oct/27/20061027-084248-4386r/) in October of that year. Almost everything I can find is from around that time and from fairly conservative sources. For whatever reason the story did not grow legs; perhaps it was squashed by the liberal media (including Fox News?) or perhaps the story did not have enough proof to be credible. As far as I can see, none of the fact checking sites have ever attempted to confirm or deny. Again, some would say it is because they all lean to the left (I don't agree) while others might posit that the story never rose far enough above the horizon to be analyzed. I am actually surprised that this never became the fodder of viral e-mails. I suspect that if the story could be verified that at least FoxNews would have run with it. It may be true, it may have a grain of truth but be exaggerated or it may be total bull. If the KGB files are anything like the FBI's then the original source may not be reliable. Not having read the book we don't really have any sense of the context. Did the author give this credence or not? That could also be the reason that the story didn't go further. Kennedy is dead but there are still some who won't be happy unless they can dance on his grave. Oh, well. Hal

"Its before my time but ... Is this what happened when they made YPT mandatory? 40% seems a bit high, but did they really lose a lot of units over that?" The difference with YPT is that it can be taken quickly and easily on line. A year ago I filed a tour permit and got a call saying that they did not know if I was current on YPT. I thought about it and realized that it had been more than two years (OK, more like 10). I assured the nice lady that I would take care of it. At lunch I logged on to the training site, took the course, printed the certificate and faxed it to council. In all it took less than an hour of my time and I didn't have to leave my office. Now say for example we get a call saying that we can't process your units charter because because the SM has not taken IOLS (he has, or at least he took BSLT but lets say he hasn't). OK, when it is the training? Next month. OK, sign me up. Sorry that one is full. When is the next one? Six months from now.... And by the way, your unit's charter is on hold until then. This is a seen that could play out in a lot of units. We have at least three trained ASMs in addition to the SM so we will be OK. We have some untrained ASMs but we could drop them and still recharter. Two are college students, Eagles from our troop who probably will not be able to take IOLS as it is only offered two weekends during the school year. But we cans still recharter without them. We would also have issues with our CC and most of our committee but they can and should get trained and can do it on line. I am sure that it will thin the committee a bit since some will just not bother. Can it all be done? Yes. Will it be easy? No. Councils and districts will really have to step up to make sure that training is available for all who need it. Multiple sessions of IOLS, perhaps offering it at summer camp. Constant reminders during the year to get the key people to actually sit down and take the classes. Commissioners are going to need to be busy little beavers to make this happen. DE's are going to be burning a lot of midnight oil and taking a lot of Tylenol. Will it be worth it in the end? Probably, at least I hope so. BTW Curious, welcome to the campfire. Hal

No, no, no! I heard it was Mark Sanford for hiking the Appalachian Trail. Hal

Ed: I disagree. There is too much chance that one or more board members might judge the scout based on his political views. Many years ago my dad answered one of those election eve phone calls. "How are you voting in tomorrow's election?" "By secret ballot as prescribed by the constitution". There is a reason we step into a voting booth; it is so no one will judge us by our political choices. The question was out of line as was the question from the more recent post. There are lots of other more appropriate questions that could be asked to give "insight into the scout". Hal

Discussion keeps getting closer to the UK model. Scouts age out of Scouts about 14 and move into Explorer (14-18) and from there to Scout Network (18-25). Scouts must be in Explorers or Scout Network to earn Queen's Scout. Queen's Scout is considered equivalent to Eagle but requirements are very different. http://www.scouts.org.uk/network/awards/queenscout.html Imagine scouts having to 26th birthday to earn Eagle... Hal

I believe that it is no longer optional in the UK (since 2007). If I understand correctly, units in the UK are not owned by Chartered organizations as they are here. Hal

What this still fails to say is what they mean by requiring training. Do they mean that they will require all leaders (as previously defined) to "be trained" as in eligible to wear the "Trained" patch for their position or is it some lower level. Hal

From the same paragraph, "Top leaders are Cubmasters, Scoutmasters, Varsity Coaches, and Venturing crew Advisors." Hal

Neonmkr: It sounds reasonable to me. I am currently the webmaster for my troop and I am beginning to think about how to transition to a scout as webmaster. None of the scouts have expressed an interest yet but I am sure they will. I am currently hosting the troop site on my own dot mac account and the site is built with mac software so these are some things that may have to change. Make sure that an adult who isn't going away has access to the site. We are on our third website, the first two having been set up by dads who disappeared (one's son quit and the other family moved away). In both case's we were left with a site that could not be edited or updated as we did not have the password. Welcome to the campfire. What part of the Husker state do you hail from? I used to teach at UNK (back in the 80s, when it was still KSC). Though I was happy to return home to Virginia, I still have fond memories of my time in Nebraska. YIS, Hal

It seems like every other week we see a post where someone heard of some big change at a conference or training. Some actually happen and some might still but most are to vague and/or just plain weird to be credible. What kind of training is going to be mandatory? Their are so many types and levels of training and some are already mandatory for some activities. What are we talking about here? Hal

While some parents want their son to join Scouts for the social-interaction, some opt for Scouting because they believe that we only have "Nice little boys"! The hard truth is that we also have our fair share of "Not so nice little boys". `````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` Yes, and they are the first to insist that those "not so nice little boys" be thrown out of the troop. Hal

Eagle 92: I've noticed that this is particularly a challenge with parents who home school their children. For whatever reasons (sometimes good, sometimes not so good)they will not trust a school with their children and they sometimes have trouble trusting their son to the troop. They tend to be active in scouts with their boys but have a problem stepping back and letting the patrol method work. They often tend to be helicopter parents. Over the years that I have been with our troop, two of the dads who were most critical of our SM and the troop were both home schooling their sons. They were also the most likely to intervene in the boy run troop. I should mention that neither had been scouts themselves. We recently camped next to a troop that was all home-schooled scouts. The troop was a couple of years old and had already split from their CO and formed a separate organization (something like friends of Troop XXX) to charter their troop. The leaders were friendly and helpful but I also sensed a real "my way or the highway attitude" that I often see in adult run troops. Eagle92, I gather you home school and I am not criticizing you or your reasons for home schooling. You clearly get it when it comes to scouts. Home schooled kids are usually very intelligent and score well on standardized tests. Scouting is often seen as a way to give them contact with others their own age that they perhaps lack through home schooling. It seems a shame to rob them of leadership opportunities by throwing them into an adult run troop or being a helicopter parent. Give the parents the counsel of your experience both as a scout and a scouter. Tell them what they should expect and not expect their sons to get out of scouts. What should they expect? Their son should have fun Their son should camp and hike and climb and canoe (among other things) and enjoy the outdoors in the fellowship of other boys. Their son should learn how to lead and how to be led; how to be part of a team that works together to achieve goals. Their son to experience failure. Things go wrong when boys are in charge. That's how they learn. What should they not expect? They shouldn't expect things to be as orderly as it would be if only the adults were in charge. Boy leadership is not a pretty sight. They shouldn't expect their son to get Eagle. He may, he may not but it shouldn't be THE expectation. (I have probably missed a number of things in the above lists) If they wish to be scouters, encourage them to get trained right away. Understanding the methods and aims of scouting will help them understand their role. Again, I don't mean to criticize those who home school. They are not all helicopter parents and not all helicopter parents are home schoolers. But the motives that cause parents to home school sometimes bleed over into scouting and can be a challenge to overcome. Hope you can guide them to choose wisely. Hal

Call me anything except late for dinner. In our troop it's Mr. Lastname. Our former scouts who are now ASMs still tend to call me Mr. Crawford but I would not be offended if they called me Hal. In front of scouts they are Mr. Lastname though I think that they find it to be a bit awkard, especially among the scouts who used to be their peers. A quick digression: the new Handbook has instructions for tying a necktie. Some on this forum questioned the necessity of that and I was unsure myself until one of our young ASMs confessed that he never learned how to tie one. I told him that he must learn how and that if I ever heard that he had gone on a job interview or a date wearing a clip-on I would hunt him done and beat him soundly. Here endith the digression. Hal

If we are going to compare the physiques of the presidents lets remember that when BSA was founded, Howard (got stuck in a bathtub) Taft was president. Since then it appears that presidents have gotten thinner (not hard when you start with TAftand scouters have gotten fatter. Maybe it is easier when you've got a bunch of Secret Service agents for jogging buddies. Hal

Mr. Roseman. ASM was Mr. Mims. The CC preferred to be addressed as Colonel Crawford but he usually got called Mister Crawford. I called him Dad. 40 some years later when I became Cubmaster of my old pack (troop had long since folded) I found out that Mr. Mims had just stepped down as Unit Commissioner. All three have left this life but maybe they are sitting around a campfire somewhere. Hal