gwd-scouter

A few years ago, our Troop tried a venture patrol. At that time, the Troop had a bunch of older Scouts and a handful of younger Scouts, nothing in between. The older guys were bored with Boy Scouts, most of them had been in the Troop for 3 or more years. So, the Venture Patrol was formed. Unfortunately, only one Scout in the Patrol was actually eager to plan and carry out events and he burned out early. The others were very used to adults doing everything for them and had no initiative to plan anything for themselves. And, add the fact that the guys now felt even more superior to the younger Scouts and had less enthusiasm for helping or mentoring them. The older guys pretty much hung out in the corner, talking about girls, school, etc. This also started having an effect on the few younger Scouts we had. What a disaster! After about a year, we had almost zero participation from the older Scouts, sporadic participation from younger Scouts, and no recruitment of new Scouts. That's about the time I was asked to step up as SM! You can read through some of my other threads about the past year and a half of pulling this troop out of the abyss. I actually like the idea of a Venture Patrol. I think, for our Troop, by focusing on our younger and new Scouts and seeing them "getting it" about Patrol Method and doing for themselves, that maybe in a couple of years this group could make an excellent Venture Patrol.

Oh yes. Camping in the itty bitty stinging rain, big ol' fat rain, rain that comes in sideways. We've been there! It's not the weather - just improper equipment.

Of course, OGE. How silly of me to forget. And, of course, as I step down from my regal conveyance, I will deign to honor the masses and regale them with my stellar rendition of "I enjoy being a girl..."

During my son's Eagle ceremony, he asked one of his fellow Scouts (Life) to MC. Young man did a great job.

Don't forget, not all our Scouts have the bodies of competitive swimmers. Body by Nintendo anyone?

As a female SM, I'm imposing a new rule for summer camp this year. Every morning, Scouts must bring me from the campsite to the assembly in a sedan chair properly lashed together. Of course, they must avert their eyes to my presence and gently place the chair to the ground so that I may debark with all the grace and ceremony befitting my high rank and authority. So it is written.

No sodas on campouts in our troop. Several good reasons given here already: cans all around, attraction of bugs, cans or bottles make much more litter than a fews packets of lemonade or gatorade. But, the biggest reason is that we are trying to teach budgeting when planning meals and a couple of 12 packs of sodas can eat up a patrol's week-end budget.

Welcome to the Forum AdkPaddler. Since I've never been involved in a Cub Scout recruitment other than the public school roundups each Fall, I can't offer much in the way of advice for your upcoming recruitment. From the way you describe the flyer I think it will be great. Just the right amount of info and hopefully color "action" pictures of Cub Scouts having fun. I am wondering if you already have the den leaders for these new recruits in place? Are you trying to get new Scouts to fill small returning dens for next year? If you are doing an open enrollment for your Pack and folks drop by your table to sign up, how are you going to know how many new den leaders you might need? For example, at the end of the day you find out that 10 boys have signed up that will be entering 3rd grade next fall. That's a brand new Bear Den. Will you now call the parents of each of the boys and ask who will be the DL and ADL? Maybe you already have these things figured out and just didn't post it in your message. In that case, ignore my questions.

We never re-oil our ovens after we use them. Hot water and a plastic scrubbing pad or wadded up aluminum foil to clean and remove food debris. Hot water to rinse. Paper towel dry and then on the coals a bit to make sure it's completely dry. Put away for next time. I've tasted too many cobblers made by other troops at camporee competitions that tasted like rancid oil. Perhaps the troops using those ovens did not clean them properly to begin with. Or maybe coating with oil is OK if you use your oven frequently which would not allow the oil to go rancid. Our ovens have been in use for about 5 years since their initial seasoning. Even without re-oiling each use, our foods don't stick, there is no leftover taste and the ovens are rust free.

Michelle, Bunchiness??? That has had me laughing I can barely type a response! Love it and will remember that term everytime I see someone in a speedo. I don't know if our council camp has any specific rules about it, but females always wear one piece suits and have never seen a male in a speedo bikini type suit. Bunchiness...ha ha ha...I just love that.

Hops and I are chatting. Join us. It's fun!

The Scout mentioned earlier passed his Eagle Board of Review last night! I am very proud of him. Somewhere in one of my earlier posts I mention him and how he wore a complete uniform for the first time when we did his Life SM Conference. I posted jokingly that I wondered if he would have his pants hemmed by the time he went for his Eagle. Yes, his pants were hemmed!

Wow, that is a question I've been asking myself every week for over a year now! I did not actively seek to be a woman scoutmaster. I had served as Advancement Chair for several years when my older son was in the Troop. I was happy in that position. I rarely went on campouts, usually only helping out when extra drivers were needed. I must say I was made to feel very unwelcomed as a female on a camping trip - not by the boys but by the male adult leaders in our Troop. So, after a while I stepped out of the Troop and concentrated my energies on younger son in the Cubscouts. Then, younger son moved up to the Troop. Again I took on the Advancement Chair position. Little did I know at the time that all but one (my husband) of the current ASMs were going to quit within a few weeks and the SM would quit within a year. The only other remaining ASM did not resign completely, but wanted to take a less visible role as Committee Chair. My husband works rotating shifts and would not be able to attend meetings regularly, so he was not going to be SM. The other ASM wanted to be Committee Chair and NO WAY wanted to be SM. Discussions went on for several months until I finally agreed to be SM. I told the Committee that I had serious reservations about my ability to be an effective SM. Like most everyone else, I thought a SM should be a man. Boys needed that male role model, etc. etc. Boys would be uncomfortable with a female SM. In fact, 2 life scouts and 1 of the new scouts transferred immediately to another troop when it was announced that I would be the new SM. I began my journey in December 2004 and now, 15 months later, I can say that I have become much more comfortable in my new role. I am also not seen so much as a curiosity (or even with hostility) by other leaders in my District. Most of the other SMs and ASMs now ask me how the Troop is doing, where we've been camping, offering to have us join them on campouts, and, in general are being helpful and friendly. So, that's why I became SM. I really figured I would do it for a year while we kept the Troop from folding and that the Committee would find a man to take my place within that year. About 3 months into my new job one of our Troop's former SMs moved back to the area and said he wanted to get involved again. I was thrilled. But, he said he didn't want to move into the SM job right away and would like to be ASM for a while. Last summer, however, he up and quit the Troop. Troop Committee felt it was sour grapes because they continued to back me as SM even though I thought the job should have been handed over to him simply because he was a man and a former Scoutmaster. Committee did not agree and cited the fact that he had only been on one campout with the Troop since he came back and was very resistant and unable to work with me in getting the Troop moving forward to boy-run. So, here we are. I have learned so much these past 15 months. I've learned that, while maybe not the best situation, a female SM is not the worst thing that can happen to a Troop. While I am hesitant to give myself any unwarranted kudos, I will repeat what my older son said to me when I told him I wanted to find a man to take my place because I thought it would be better for the Troop. He said, "thinking of the Troop and trying to find someone who will be the best SM rather than yourself, might just make you the best person for the job right now...ever think about that?" So, I will continue working toward the success of our Troop. And, in a few years when it's time for me to step down, I hope I'm able to find the right person for the job.

Yes folks. I'm a girl! Talked with a few Woodbadgers at roundtable last night. Many of them offered the same advice I've read here. Most encouraged me to sign up immediately. But, one Scouter who knows me well over these many Scouting years offered a different perspective - one that is very similar to what Eamonn posted. His concern was that I am devoting so much time and energy to moving our Troop forward, that adding one more time consuming project (two 3-day weekends plus working the ticket, etc.) may just be too much. He expressed concern that I would burn-out and that would be the worst thing for my Troop. And, while my troop is no longer teetering on the brink of oblivion (that was last year), we are having our struggles and growing pains. But improvements are being made, slowly but surely. I just wanted advice on whether this was the right time for me to take woodbadge and I thank you all for your posts. After reading your posts, talking with the good folks at roundtable last night and, most especially, discussing with my husband, I think I'll have to wait and think about taking the course in 2007.

Hi Mr. Mal and Welcome to the Forum. From your experience it sounds like you will be offering us advice and suggestions rather than the other way around (at least for me that is).

Thank you all for your thoughtful responses. You've given me a lot to think about. Our course is set up for two 3-day weekends in October and November this fall. There are still spaces available so I have a bit of time before I have to register. And, OK Emb, I stand corrected - I have NOT been to all levels of training. Part of my reluctance to attend Woodbadge was that I knew it to be advanced training and really didn't think I had the required skill base to attend. The only people in my District that I knew took the course were the old time experienced Scoutmasters. Don't see any woman in my District wearing the beads! So, it has been especially nice to hear from you ladies out there and about your experience with Woodbadge. Thanks again all.

Guys can bring their own CDs and we mix them up on trips. My only criteria is that it isn't rap. My apologies to any of you that are fans, but I just can't listen to that. Husband and I do the driving and we each have our own musical tastes - his more old heavy metal, mine more classic rock. Our older son made us a bunch of mixed CDs from his very extensive collection of digital music and the guys really seem to enjoy them. He did throw in a few surprises. Imagine head banging to Guns and Roses and then moving on to Sonny and Cher! Or cruising along to the Eagles and then suddenly hearing the 1812 Overture played by the Marine Corps Band - cannons and all. I always hold out the threat that if things get too roudy in the car it will be time for a Manilow moment, and I just might sing along.... Oh, Mandy, you came and you gave without taking.....

I had the pleasure of doing an Eagle Scoutmaster Conference yesterday. I have known the young man since Cubs and he is less than 2 weeks from his 18th birthday. He was very inactive in the Troop for a couple of years, but came back a little more than a year ago with renewed spirit and enthusiasm. What a ride this year has been! He goes for his Board of Review tonight and I'll be there to congratulate him when he is finished. I have no doubt he will make it.

SR540Beaver - you didn't get the patch??

I'm am always learning on this forum. I've always been under the assumption that there were rules about the age and rank of the scout leadership positions within a troop. I have found, all over the Internet, written job descriptions for SPL on down, from differerent troops across the United States. They were virtually the same! Since I couldn't find anything in actual National BSA publications, I figured that what I found consistently on so many different sites on the Internet must be the way it is. So, each Troop decides the requirements for leadership positions? Is this because they have had a poor experience with, say, a 1st class Scout as SPL? I am in no way trying to be snotty about the policies of a particular troop in selecting or allowing the election of SPLs and other Jr. troop leadership. But, if it is supposed to be done by the Scouts, then why set arbitrary requirements on the Scouts?

Eamonn, you always seem to post such interesting topics, most of them I do not have enough experience to answer. This is no exception. I think I know what you're asking here, but I will withhold answer until some of the more experienced and verbally fluent among us answer. OGE comes to mind...

Ronvo - who sleeps when my children have friends over??? Ha ha. Now, back to the point. I am not trying to over protect anyone and all the Scouts in our Troop know that Mr. and Mrs. Buchanan are married. But, we have never shared a tent - over all the years we've been involved with Scouts. Maybe it started because many times I was the only woman on site and my husband just tented with one of the other men and I had the tent to myself. Maybe it's because at least for a couple nights I can be a bit removed from his snoring. Whatever the reason, perhaps my wording that it just didn't seem to look right was, well, wrong. We are both just more comfortable on Scout outings to act as Mr. Buchanan (ASM) and Mrs. Buchanan (SM) and not Mr. and Mrs. Buchanan - husband and wife. Our personal choice.

Bob, Welcome to the Forum. Your sure have started out with a thought provoking post! There are numerous threads under Program and Patrol Method about your situtation. I feel a bit presumptuous answering your post since I am in a similar situation and have been grateful to the other more knowledgeable folks on this forum for their advice. But, you asked for advice from anyone in the same situation, so here goes. About 15 months ago I became SM of a Troop in a similar situation to yours. What had once been a somewhat boy-led Troop had become completely adult-run. The troop used to average 18 active Scouts but was down to only 4-6 at meetings and outings. We even got to a point where camping trips were cancelled because no one wanted to go. In the last year before I became SM, the troop only went to summer camp and on 2 other camping trips. DISMAL! Without going into a long story of what happened leading up to me being asked to step up as SM, I will tell you what my experience has been since. After accepting the role of SM, all ASMs resigned and 3 boys left the troop, basically because they felt a woman shouldn't/couldn't be Scoutmaster). In many ways I agree with that and was hurt that the ASMs felt I shouldn't be SM and rather than step up to the job themselves, they simply resigned and/or moved their sons to another Troop. So, had to get all new leadership - an ongoing challenge. The good part of all new leadership, however, is that they tend to get the idea of boy-led and understand when I ask them to back-off being a Dad/Mom and let the boys do it. The loss of 3 Scouts left us with only 4 active Scouts, 2 hit or miss Scouts, and 4 we never saw but had paid their registration (what I call our legacy Scouts). When my son and a couple other new Scouts started a couple of years ago, they were excited about Scouting. But that excitement quickly changed as they followed the example being made by the legacy scouts. The good news is that things are changing. These guys quickly found out that I expected them to be examples to the younger guys - and I meant GOOD examples. For the first time in years they had jobs to do and were expected to do them. They were expected to wear the uniform properly. They were expected to show up on time. Yes, I admit I came on a little hard in the beginning. Partly because I wanted to get their attention. Partly because I was a woman and didn't want them to think I was a pushover. Mostly because I was new and had a lot to learn about being SM. I can say without hesitation that this past 15 months of trying to turn our troop around has been exhausting. Some weeks/months it seems we take one step forward and two steps backward. We only formed two separate patrols a couple of months ago. January saw our first campout where we had 2 patrols doing their own cooking/cleaning etc (up till then we were just a Troop, no patrols at all) and the trip was completely Scout-planned. Backpacking trip a couple of weeks ago went very well. Not as well attended as I would have liked - only 4 out of our now 10 Scouts attended - but again Scout-planned and Scout- run. I am still spoon feeding the monthly plan to the SPL and PLs, but then they plan in more details for each week and the monthly campout. For example, we did backpacking last month. I gave the SPL an outline for the month: 1st week, types of backpacks; 2nd week, backpacking stoves and fuel; 3rd week, food and meal planning; 4th week right before weekend trip, backpack shakedown. It is working. This month we are getting ready for our Council's Exporee and the Scouts are working on planning their gateway. So, lessons on knot tying and lashings. Last week they held a lashing competition between the patrols. And, I had nothing to do with it! Take a moment to read through some of the threads from others with similar Troop problems and you will see that you are not alone. Some of the folks on this forum will describe their Troop in a situation just like yours, but that were able to turn it into a success within a few years. Oh yes, I did say years. From everyone who has answered my posts I've read that it will take 3-6 years to go from adult-led to boy-led. I am 15 months in and I can say we still have a long way to go. But, progress is being made. The most important thing I think I've done so far is share my vision for this Troop with all the adults and boys. I told them what my goal had been last year - just to keep the Troop together. I told them my goal for this year - having regular PLC meetings and better functioning patrols. So, hang in there. This forum is a fantastic place to get ideas and answers to your questions. Talk with your SM about your vision for the Troop. You may find out that he has just been waiting for someone to come up with ideas on how to change things around. Good luck Bob. It will be a challenge, but well worth it! (This message has been edited by gwd-scouter)

My husband and I go on every outing with our Scouts. I always have a tent to myself. We just don't think it looks right for us to share a tent, even though GTSS says we can. During summer camp our Troop is housed in a dormitory style cabin. GTSS says adult leaders can stay with the Scouts in the cabin as long as there are at least 2 and a privacy partition is put up (Leadership Requirements for Trips and Outings, #6). So, while the male adults and the Scouts are in their large cozy cabin with bunk beds, mattresses, and box fans to keep it cool, I am relegated to a tent for the week. Ah, the price I pay for being a female SM!

Good advice from all. I guess my effort to institute some kind of immediate recognition was done the wrong way. Over the years our Troop only held 2 COH a year and that was when ranks and merit badges were given out. One was just before summer camp and the other around Christmas Time. I KNOW that COH should be held more often! The reason I figure we haven't done awarding of the rank badge immediately is that our council office is over an hour's drive away. Not very convenient to be popping up to the office just to pick up one badge. Since our council office does not require the advancement sheet to buy the pins, I thought it would be a nice way to offer immediate recognition (I could buy several of each at a time). But, you guys are making a very good point. I will have this discussion with Troop Committee and start to work toward immediate presentation of rank badges rather than the pins. Then we will present cards/pins and parents' pins at COH. I do have another concern about that. What is your experience with Scouts having already received their badge not showing up for COH?