gwd-scouter

Eagle76, At least your troop is almost doing it the way it is supposed to be done. Our District doesn't have a merit badge counselor list. Each troop fends for themselves. Some Troops may have a list with applications on each counselor. However, most (including ours) have the SM, ASMs, Committee members and parents working as merit badge counselors - no applications sent to Council. Before anyone sends in a rant about how our troop is doing it wrong wrong wrong - I agree. Since becoming SM, everything about the way our troop did things had to be changed and the way merit badges were done and signed off is just one item on a long list. We're working on it, but other things like getting adult and youth leaders trained, setting up functioning patrols, increasing participation in meetings and outings, etc., have been a higher priority for the past year.

How about Dogs? Beagle Scout (aka Tenderpaw) comes to mind.

Just curious how folks found this forum. When I became a SM, I had little training in the position and was desperate for any information I could find to help get me started. I had heard so much about chat rooms but could never find any that had anything to do with Scouting, or, if it started out about Scouting, it didn't stay on topic long. So, I did an Internet search for Scouting Forums and eventually found this one. I did find others, and I check them out from time-to-time, but they aren't as active or informative as Scouter (in my opinion). So fellow members, how did you find this forum?

Hi Roguedawg. Sorry it's taken so long to welcome you to the Forum. Things have changed a bit since you've been in Scouts. For instance, you may want to ask your wife if she'd like to be a den 'leader' rather than a den 'mother' - maybe it's the old title that's scaring her away. In the meantime, share your scouting experience and we'll share ours.

A recent posting on the Cub Scout thread has one person taking offense at another quoting a comment they made and then posting...DUH. Poster of the DUH comment writes back and says, sorry it was meant as a joke. As everyone else has said, it is impossible to tell by reading text on a screen whether a person is being rude or perhaps just using humor that is not understood. And, yes, we often go off on a tear because something we read angers us and we imprudently neglet to wait a day or two to cool off. For me, I have found that many times someone else has answered a thread and posted what I wanted to say, but in a much clearer way. Have a great weekend everyone!

Oh this is such a confusing topic. I don't know if this will help, but.... I had an Eagle candidate who did both Lifesaving and Emergency Preparedness during his time working on Life. Both were counted toward the 3 Eagle required badges for Life. So, that actually left him with having to do 6 Eagle requireds for Eagle rank instead of 5, because even though you can do, say, Swimming and Hiking for Star or Life, only one can count as required when filling out your Eagle application (you cross out those that do not count toward your 12 requireds - i.e., count Swimming so cross out Hiking and Cycling; count Emergency Prep so cross out Lifesaving). If you use Troopmaster software, it demonstrates this very effectively when it posts merit badges. If you look at an Eagle rank page, it may say something like 3 of 5 MBs remaining must be Eagle required. But, because above mentioned Scout did both Lifesaving and Emerg Prep, his Eagle page showed 3 of 6 MBs remaining must be Eagle required. So while he actually did 13 of the required merit badges, 12 counted for Eagle and one counted as an elective. Hope this helps.

Cute story. I think we all have both types of scouts in our troops.

Campcrafter. I went back and re-read your posts from April "Son's less than enthusiastic." Obviously, nothing has improved since that post. You spoke of going to a leader's meeting and you and another adult were going to talk about changes needed. Did that meeting ever happen? Were the other adults receptive to ideas and perhaps just don't know how to implement them? I can attest to the difficulty in changing a troop's culture. For almost 2 years now, I've been working on changing many of the same problem you mention. When I brought up what I saw as problems with the Troop, the end result was almost all of the then current leadership quitting. Essentially, "if you don't like the way we're doing it, you do it." I will say that finding a troop that will serve your son better is probably the easiest thing to do, starting a brand new troop the most difficult, especially if it is made up of only inexperienced Scouts, and changing around a troop in trouble is somewhere in the middle. Keep us posted and let us know how things work out.

I found this part of the BSA website and it still includes adult association as one of the Methods. http://www.scouting.org/nav/media/index.html What part of national website only had 7 Methods?

Acco, we have 11 Scouts registered, 8 of which are currently active. We also have had a few more adults sign up with our new Scouts, but they have not yet been to training and are very unsure of actually doing anything. Our District and Council trainings are coming up soon so hopefully these new folks will get trained and then get busy. Ah, ScoutNut, thank you for the gentle chastisement! I do not, in fact, retest Scouts during SM Conferences for rank advancement. I do, however, take opportunities to spot check those things signed off by our Patrol Leaders or other youth leadership. Allowing the youth leadership to sign off on requirements is a new concept in our troop and one that is progressing well, but I do feel I need to keep tabs on it. In the past, our youth leaders have never been given any real responsibility in the Troop, so this is very new to them. These spot-checking SM moments happen on campouts or just by observing activities going on at troop meetings. To clarify my previous post a bit further, when my son came out of his conference and told me the ASM only asked if he'd done everything signed in his book, I was distressed that he was not asked how things are going, what his plans are for next rank, or to talk about campouts or other things he did while working toward his rank. His SM Conference lasted less than 5 minutes. Let me add that the ASM had been the first SM for our troop. He moved away for a few years, then came back as an ASM about a month after I took over as SM. Being brand new to the job of SM and not having been to training yet, I was thrilled to have and learn from his experience. It wasn't until I'd been to training and spent some time researching things for myself (and reading posts from all you knowledgeable forum members) that I found out that most of the SMs I know in our District were not necessarily doing things "by the book." Retesting at SM Conference - always. Retesting at BOR - almost always. As I and a few other new leaders in our Troop learned more and began to question some of his methods, he decided to leave the Troop. Not really the way I had hoped things would turn out. So, in many ways we are trying to do it right in our Troop. In many areas, we are still doing it "wrong" but working toward improving. A very slow process, but we will get there eventually.

Our little troop has been trying for the past year and a half to follow the rules. But, as is probably the case with many small troops, we don't quite hit the mark. On several other sections of this forum, I've seen folks get into rather heated debate on the rights and wrongs of running a Scout Troop. Others with perhaps cooler heads have suggested that if a Troop is trying their best to deliver the program as BSA intended, let's all offer our support and encouragement. So, as far as conflict of interest goes, I guess our Troop is guilty as charged. Yes, as SM, I have initialled my son's handbook. I have not, however, done his SM conferences. But, after his 1st Class SM Conferece, he told me the ASM only asked if he'd done everything in his book. Didn't ask for explanations or demonstrations. Just signed off because the Scout in question was my son. So, in this instance, I feel I could and would have done a much better job at the SM conference. I do not sit on BORs. My husband (the only really active ASM in our Troop) tries to avoid sitting on BORs as well, but our Committee has been in transition that past year and sometimes we can only get two people to show up to do a BOR. They are former ASMs from our Troop that stepped down a couple of years ago when their sons becamse inactive. They really only help out a few times a year to do BORs. Finally, about merit badges. This is where our troop really has a LONG way to go. There has never been in our troop's existence a merit badge list. SM and ASMs always signed off on all merit badges. Fixing this problem is on the list of things to work on next year, but I know it's going to be the most difficult. Our district doesn't even have a merit badge counselor list. I can barely get adults/parents to volunteer to help our troop out once a month or even just a couple of times a year on an outing. How am I going to get them to agree to be a merit badge counselor? Oh well, as I said, that's one of the items on a long list of things to work on.

Oh my, there are those days when I think all this hard work will be in vain and our little troop will eventually fold. But, then the sun comes up the next day... Son invited a friend to come to our Scout meeting last night. Actually, he's been asking him for about a year. Unfortunately, his friend had a bad experience (actually twice) with a poorly organized Cub Scout pack and his Mom was not interested in trying the Scout thing again. Friend had fun at the meeting last night, fit right in with the guys, and is looking forward to going on our trip this coming weekend. Mom has also changed her view of Scouting after she heard about all the work being done in our troop to get it reorganized. She likes the idea of boy run. She especially liked that we actually went on an outing once a month and that almost all the trips were planned by the guys (with exception of Council and District events already scheduled). Even better news is that new Scout has a 10-year-old brother who Mom said could join us next year. Mom did have a concern that new Scout is already 13 and would not have enough time to advance to Eagle. Husband mentioned that new Scout did, in fact, have time, but that he should enjoy the journey and not just focus on the end. She liked that! New Scout has been our son's friend since elementary school (they are both 13 now). So, here we are - growing our troop, one Scout at a time.

With a few exceptions, our week at Camp Old Indian every year is wonderful. Food, typical institutional food. Usually a bit small on portions and imagination, but will keep you going for the week. Calls for seconds at every meal and a salad bar for lunch and dinner. Can't really do anything about the weather, but it is usually quite hot during the day (low 90s) and drooping to high 70s low 80s in the evenings. Sometimes even into the 60s! This year was a bit unusual in that temps were over 100 for a couple of days. Only a few raindrops all week. Most of the staff at COI is over 18 years old and have worked at camp before so they are well trained and knowledgable in their duties. They are also very enthusiastic, terrific with the young Scouts, and (to me at least) exemplify Scouting ideals. We did experience a few bumps in the road during our week. One new Scout (only his 2nd time away from home and the first time for more than a weekend) was afraid to get in the lake. He would not take his swim test when we arrived. But, thanks to the excellent and patient acquatics staff, he managed to pass his beginner's swim test by Wednesday. He was looking forward to telling his parents when they came Wednesday night for family night. That's when we hit our first bump. Young Scout had been having a great week until Mom showed up. Boo Hoos and tears led to him leaving camp that night. I know, I know, many of you out there will say shame on me for letting him leave. I tried to get him to stay, but Mom's tears won out. I did get a very nice note from her after we returned that said she was sorry and her son hoped I was not mad and that he'd be able to go on the next trip with us. Of course I wasn't mad! Just disappointed. At least he hasn't quit altogether. Next bump camp with an outbreak of a 24 hour stomach bug running through camp. Very late Wednesday night, 2nd year camper came running out of the cabin and vomited in the trashcan. When he finished he said he felt better, he didn't feel feverish, so I gave him a cup of water and sent him on his way to brush his teeth. I walked with him on his way back to camp and asked him how he felt. He thought maybe it was all the food he ate since it was family night earlier and we had quite a spread. He said, "sometimes, a guys just gotta barf." I will remember him saying that forever! But, by next morning, he was feeling worse and with temperatures expected to be over 100 degrees, thought it best for him to go home. By the way, I got the dreaded bug on Thursday night. Unfortunately, I had to tough it out since it was not an option for me to leave. Felt much better by Friday night closing campfire. We had another new Scout that tested the limits of everyone's patience, but he seemed to enjoy his first year of camp more than anyone, learned a lot in the pathfinder program, and was the most vocal about how he couldn't wait to come back next year. Our temporary SPL (my son) found out that being SPL is hard and is not altogether sure now if he wants to run for the job this fall. He still has a lot to learn about that level of leadership, but it was a good experience for him. Other odds and ends about camp: We had a staffer that stopped by every night to see how things were going and if we needed anything. We, too, bring and brew our own coffee in our campsite and it always brings other adults from around camp. It's a great way to meet new people and share a story or two before the day starts. We also set up two large water coolers, one with plain water, the other with gatorade mix. Because of the heat, we make sure the guys stay hydrated. Every night we have a snack for the guys, usually healthy to counteract all the candy and sodas they buy in the trading post (apples/pears or other fresh fruit, pudding cups, granola bars, raisins, fruit cups, and, of course, watermelon on Friday). A variety of board games and card games are brought along for free time/rest periods if the guys don't have anything else planned. It always amazes me how much they get into chess! I think the part I like best about camp is the conversation in the campsite. I have always enjoyed the little things I learn about our Scouts while we're just sitting around, playing a game, listening while a Scout talks about what he did that day. I just love those moments "Hey, Mrs. B, look at what I made in handicraft." "Guess what I learned in ________ class?" "Hey, Mrs. B, wanna play _______?" And, of course, the heated discussions and debates among a bunch of 11-13 year olds. My favorite: if you could have one superhero power what would it be, and which superhero would win in an all-out fight? To echo other's on this forum - I just love this Scouting stuff!

Our summer camp "requires" full official uniform for flag ceremonies, evening meal, opening and closing campfire programs, Sunday chapel service. All other times the activity uniform is required. Now, those requirements are followed to the letter by some troops, almost not at all by others. The staff is always in full field or activity uniform right down to the official socks. Our troop tries to abide by the camp requirements and we all (adults and youth) wear the full official uniform when required. However, during the daytime activities, our scouts wear a scout-related T shirt or a plain T shirt and whatever shorts they have. My older son went to National Jamboree in 2001 and we had to buy him 3 official uniforms and a bunch of extra socks and T shirts so that he would be properly dressed at all times. Quite an added expenses on top of the expense for the trip itself! I can't see requiring the same type of expense for a week of summer camp. This summer was the first summer in many years that all the scouts in our troop actually had their full uniforms. They actually laid them aside and changed into them at the proper events during the week. Even had one Scout get very upset when he couldn't find his Scout shorts. He was to do the troop report at the evening assembly and told me "I can't DO the troop report if I don't have my full uniform." Now, I never told him that. Maybe it was a sense of pride the boys had when they looked around and saw that they were one of the few troops that actually were all properly uniformed. Maybe not. Maybe it was just youthful enthusiasm - he is a new Scout. So, Lisabob, I would suggest that your scouts have one official uniform and a bunch of scout-related Ts or plain Ts and that ought to be fine for summer camp.

A television commercial recently airing has me seeing red. Dad, all excited, opens the door to a minivan parked in the driveway. He tells the two young boys inside that he has completed the tree house and it's all ready to go. Boys are in the back seats, playing cards, wearing head phones. One boy asks, "does it have leather seats?" "Does it have a DVD player?" Boys decline to play in the new treehouse and say "we're good." Dad says OK, closes the door to the minivan, and walks away. Amazing! Is this a commentary on our children today? What about the Dad? I know, I know, it's just a commercial. But, it sure doesn't inspire me to buy a minivan!

Laura, My older son's experience as a camp counselor sounds very similar to your son's. At 15, he was asked to work one week because of staff shortage and was assigned to the waterfront. The next year he worked a full summer in the ecology department and taught many merit badges for which I felt he was not qualified (he hadn't actually earned some of them). But, he learned quickly and I was told he was one of the better staff members. His days were exhausting and he, too, was required to leave camp on Saturday at noon and return Sunday noon. We also had to drive about 2 hours each way to pick him up and take him back. And, yes, he worked it out that he was earning somewhere around $.75/hour. A difference in his experience is that he did have a free period every day, usually only an hour, but time to just sit and relax. But, his days began at 6:30 am and ran until 11:00 pm. This is his fourth year working at camp - he is now the Ecology Director. The first week of camp he was under-staffed and had to fill in teaching some of the merit badges and conducting nature hikes. It was certainly a most exhausting week for him since he had no free time at all and his hours were even longer since he's the Director. But, he is now fully staffed and gets a break during the day. Of course, his break is usually spent doing paper work. He does look forward to the daily staff vs. SPL ultimate frisbee game after lunch. He is also the inductions chairman for OA so he is up late Thursday and Friday nights for tap out and cermony. All of the counselors arrive a week ahead of time for staff week, which includes not only learning their duties and outlining lesson plans for merit badges, but cleaning out all the adirondacks and cabins, bathrooms and shower houses and generally cleaning up all around camp. And, all of the counselors also take turns throughout the week in the dining hall serving meals to the campers. On the days they serve, they have very little time to eat themselves. Older son drives home on Saturday afternoon, does his laundry, flops into bed around midnight and is up at 9:00 am to drive back to camp on Sunday. Yes, working at camp is an exhausting and underpaid job. But, at least in his mind, that is outweighed by the experience itself. I often wonder where he gets the energy to do his job day after day, week after week in 90-100 degree weather. Then I remember - oh yeah, he's 19!

Hi folks. Back from our week at summer camp - Camp Old Indian in the Blue Ridge mountains. Great time had by all! Looks like I have a lot of catching up to do on the Forum, though.

Chat room fire is lit. Stop by

Kim, The requirements may be done on two different camping trips.

Husband and I have been reading biographies of our founding fathers. We leave for summer camp on Sunday and I'm taking a bio on Alexander Hamilton; he is reading one on Ben Franklin.

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood: who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is not effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. Excerpt from a speech given in Paris France by President Theodore Roosevelt, April 23, 1910 (This message has been edited by gwd-scouter)

Putting aside whether rapelling down a silo counts or not, the requirement also states that you must do two of the activities from the list "On any of these camping experiences..." So, it seems to me that the indoor rapel activity doesn't count because it was not during a camping trip. And, was the bike trip part of a camping trip?

Anyone care to chat? In the room for a bit if you feel like stopping by.

Does changing troops and conflict among leaders/parents happen as often as it seems in some of the posts I've read? Maybe I just don't see what's happening. I attend roundtables every month in our district, have done so for 14 years. I have worked closely with all the DEs, SMs, CMs and other leaders and I have heard of conflicts between parents and scoutmasters and other adult leaders from time-to-time, but never to the extent that I've read in this forum. In the time I've been in Scouting, we have never had an adult leader removed from his/her position by the CO, District, or Council. Sure, we've had SMs and CMs step down, but to my knowlege it was because their son(s) had moved on and was no longer in their particular end of the program (Cubs/Boys). I've never heard of a Scout in our area appealing a negative decision by his Troop to the District or Council or National. We are in no way perfect in our District or Council, and maybe I'm just living in a fog, but, again, my question is, do these types of disputes happen often?

My post will seem a bit contradictory. In many ways I see the advent of email as one of the best things to happen in the last 20 years. It has helped many people keep in touch who otherwise would never pick up a phone or write a letter. That being said, my biggest fear 20 years from now is that we will become completely disconnected on a personal level. Everyone has cells phones - and mostly the cell phone user discourtasy of thinking they are so important that they must talk on it constantly regardless of where they are or whom they are with. Ah, sorry, personal peeve there. We have an entire generation of folks learning the best way to communicate is impersonally - text messaging, cell phones, chat rooms, email. Yes, I say that with a bit of irony since I am posting a message here "impersonally." Who writes actual pen and paper letters anymore? Who picks up a land-line phone from their home and calls another person in their home on a land-line phone and chats while sipping coffee? Anyone? We are becoming an instant society, 24/7, short clips to hold our ever-decreasing attention span. We receive amazing stories in email messages and read things on the Internet that we "know" are true," because we never take the time to verify the information ourselves. Don't see any of that changing, only getting worse. But then, the younger generation growing up with this will have different expectations and needs than I. As for what could be a beneficial change over the next 20 years? Gas efficiency, less dependence on fossil fuels. I think, someday, we will get there. However, I agree with MarkS in that I just don't see existing houses being retrofitted for solar power, nor do I see a windmill in every yard.