gwd-scouter

Thank you folks for your words of advice and encouragement. I've always had a nagging feeling that our Troop was somehow being done a disservice because 1) we have a girl Scoutmaster (yeah, me, you guessed it) and 2) I thought every troop is supposed to have an abundance of highly skilled, highly trained adult leaders. You know - superscoutmaster - able to leap tall buildings in a single bound! Our Scouts had their planning campout last weekend and have added a few new ideas for campouts such as snow skiing/snow boarding (my husband and I are actually quite proficient at skiing, never tried boarding) and spelunking (already got some great advice and ideas for this from another thread). They have also planned a wilderness campout/canoe trek at Lake Jocassee. Water activities are also within the realm of our experience and training. But, they also want to do some rock climbing/rapelling or some kind of high-adventure ropes course. Our adult leadership is in no way able to handle this on our own so we will seek an outfitter. Of course, when the time gets a bit closer for this event I'll probably seek the advice of the forum members. Once again, thanks for your help.

Thanks guys for all your help. I checked out and printed out information for the websites you posted. This past weekend the Scouts did their annual planning. Spelunking was high on their list of new things to do and they were very excited about the web site information I gave out. Now, if they can just decided which place to visit...

Our troop only has one large patrol. We've tried several times to break the group into 2 patrols, but we only have 12 scouts on our roster, a couple of the older guys are not very active, and we usually only have about 6 on any outing. So, we have our PLC and one patrol. To begin with, all of our troop's equipment is stored in our troop trailer. We used to haul that thing everywhere we went, but the price of gas has caused us to rethink. Also, the boys never really had to do much equipment planning for campouts since we brought everything with us and they could just go to the trailer and forage around for what they needed. So, we have a smaller trailer and just recently the guys have had to plan what they need to bring and take it out of the big trailer. This includes tents, tarps, quonset hut stuff or dining fly, tables, stoves, propane tanks, coolers, lanterns - you get the idea. Over the years we have had scouts with in the QM position, but they didn't actually have to do anything. So, by using the smaller trailer and requiring the guys to plan for what they need, our QM will now has a real job to do. We have two patrols boxes - one for the boys and one for the adults. They contain plates, utensils for eating and cooking, cooking pots, cups, bowls, juice pitchers, strainers, can opener, etc. If the scouts want to use a dutch oven, they must remember to take one out of the trailer. This method has resulted in a few disasters along the way: for instance, dutch oven cooking but they didn't put charcoal on the list. It has certainly be a learning experience for the guys. Our scouts do prepare their own menu and shop for their own food. About 2 weeks out from a trip, those guys that are going get together and start planning their menu. The PL makes a duty roster so everyone knows who will be cooking and cleaning and when. The next week, last meeting right before the trip, the guys make sure the shopping list is completed and approved and a scout is assigned to do the shopping. This is usually a scout that still needs that requirement, but not always. Scout is given cash to cover $10 per scout and the shopping list. We also have a short note to that scout's parents letting them know that he needs to do the shopping and pay careful attention to his budget. This works well but sometimes we do have parents do the shopping themselves. Adults plan our own menu. We always include something new and have the scouts try it. This has helped them develop more varied menus and to think beyond spaghetti and poptarts and to think about ways to cook using only one pot or with little or no cleanup (that's how they learned about baggie omelets). Scouts have made some interesting mistakes along the way: Baggie omelets for breakfast, but they forget the baggies. Pancake mix is purchased that requires eggs and milk, not just water and they forget the eggs and milk. Spaghetti is great, but they would have preferred it with meat sauce, not just plain jar sauce. The spaghetti meal was also interesting in that they scouts in charge of cooking it did not read the label for the noodles. They had purchased a LARGE box of noodles and dumped the whole box into the boiling water - a fairly small pot of boiling water. What a gummy, sticky mess for them to clean - but, they have not forgotten the lesson learned! Sowing the seeds of success is not easy. Letting the scouts plan and carry out their plans on their own will often result in some interesting weekends. It is much easier for us as adults to do everything and do it on time and perfectly. But, what would be the fun in that? And, what would the scouts learn? When I stepped up as SM almost 2 years ago, the biggest challenge I saw in our troop was for the adults to learn to allow the scouts to fail and for those scouts to learn to do things on their own. We step in for health and safety reasons, but we haven't had a scout starve to death yet over the weekend because the patrol forgot to bring the (insert menu item here). Oh, yes, we've witnessed some spectacular failures. Interesting how the scouts remember and talk about those more than the flawless weekends. Good luck to you and your troop.

There are a lot of different troops out there. I've read posts here about troops that have a very active high-adventure program. My question, is how can a troop accomplish a decent high adventure program, or at least a more challenging program for the older scouts, when the adult leaders do not have the skills and training (or equipment for that matter) for such. For instance, I've recently posted a question about cave exploration in the Southeast. Boys have asked if they could do it. I've read the G2SS and know that our adult leadership is not prepared for the kind of cave diving these guys were asking about - as I've learned just from that post, I think these guys are looking for more vertical caves. Rock climbing and rapelling are also areas in which we do not have the equipment. Myself and my husband have taken climb of safely and I have taken a class at the local rock climbing facility, but we are still obviously not prepared to take our troop rock climbing. About the best high adventure we can do in our troop are water activities and backpacking. Both husband and I are avid white water enthusiasts and very strong swimmers, take safe swim/safety afloat every year and CPR every year. He and I, along with another ASM, are into backpacking and consider ourselves competent to handle a weekend in the wilderness - the other ASM is an AVID backpacker, working his way to finishing the AT. He has been a huge bonus to our troop since he joined us last year. So, this past year we have been able to offer the guys more than they've had in the past. But, I really want us to have a program that offers more fun and challenge to the older guys in our troop, I just don't know how skilled or trained we have to be to provide it. How do you guys manage?

Thanks for the info so far guys. Yes, EagleinKY, please send you feedback after your trip. We are leaving for our troop's annual planning campout in a few hours and I wanted to find out something about caving for the guys since they asked about it last week. Unfortunately, as I said before, our troop leadership is not trained or experienced in this kind of thing so we're looking for something that will fit within the G2SS (yep, I read the rules) and our abilities. Which brings to mind a thread I'm going to spin off - just how trained/prepared/skilled should a Scoutmaster be before taking the job?

I also wonder why the troop leaders would not let someone else chaperone the boy since his father was not able to go to camp. But, this article confuses me in so many ways. "Upon turning 10 years old, Casey graduated from the Cub Scouts to the Boy Scouts." - Either he earned the arrow of light or finished 5th grade very young, or there is something wrong here. "Casey's parents searched for ways to reconcile his illness to the social and physical demands of being a Scout. Jane Dubovy, his mother and a Palisades-based disability lawyer, hired a children's development specialist to attend Scout meetings and suggest ways of accommodating the Scout curriculum to his individual needs. Casey's father, Mike Reilly, volunteered as an assistant Scoutmaster and attended meetings and hikes." - This makes it sound like they knew nothing about the Scout program before enrolling Casey, but the article later states that they have an older Eagle Scout son and Dad has been a scout leader for 10 years (Casey has only been in for 4). I don't understand the bit about "prerequisite for advancing from the first to second year of the Boy Scouts." Guess that means something like First Class/First Year. But, where does the idea in the article come from that a Scout has to start over from the beginning if they miss summer camp or are dismissed for a while? And finally, the sentence with "...in the past 50 years with Lanning as leader..." - that is ONE OLD Scoutmaster! No offense to any of you 70+ year-old Scoutmasters out there. :-)

Anyone know of good locations for caving in the Southeast? None of our current troop leadership has the training or equipment for rapelling and that sort of thing, so we would need to find a place that perhaps did this kind of thing for scout troops or other organizations. Or, do you usually just go to the more commercial type locations (i.e., Ruby Falls in Chattanooga) that have a program for scouts?

I've always liked this quote. "There are only two creatures of value on the face of the Earth - those with a commitment, and those that require the commitment of others." - John Adams to his wife, Abigail

Guess you can add my name to the list for the class action. Can't get an email newsletter, but I get three copies of Scouter magazine mailed to my house! So, as others have asked, what's the big news in the E-news?

My youner son's Wolf Den Leader had the boys first come up with a name for their den besides just a den number. They decided on "Wolferines." Then the boys spent a den meeting each drawing up a small picture that they would like to paint on the den flag. Den Leader came in the next week with a flag sized piece of materials on which he had block printed their den number and their name, Wolferines. Then, each boy painted his own drawing with his name underneath.

I have watched for years as my sons prepared for OA Fellowship campouts. They've put together costumes and props to go with whatever the theme for the weekend was. They've been pirates, 50s greasers, knights of the roundtable, and had a blast doing it. They would return home and tell me about what the other chapters did and the fun, often times goofy, competitions they had. Our District Camporee is coming up in October and the theme is Highland Games. This just opens up so many opportunities for our Scouts to use their imaginations. Anyone thinking Braveheart? But, I fear that peer-pressure and the "it's just not cool" attitude among some of the scouts in our troop will overcome their willigness to be silly and they just won't get into the spirit of it. I've heard that one troop in our district is actually going full kilt! Our family name (Buchanan) is Scottish and has its own Tartan, which coincidentially is predominantly red and green. After a bit of research, I found out that a few other guys in our Troop have family Tartans as well, also predominantly red and green. Coincidence?? Any ideas out there on how I can help these guys. The PLC is meeting next Monday to begin plans for the Camporee. While I want to leave all the planning up to them, I am fully prepared to be the role model of silliness (while still maintaining my dignity of course) if it would help. "...they may take our lives, but they'll never take... OUR FREEDOM" - William Wallace, Braveheart.

Linuxhack - welcome to the forum. Excellent place here to share ideas. Just recently, we've had posts for a couple of new Tiger Leaders. Remember to share the load with the other parents and, most importantly, have fun!

Hey Joe. Others so far have given you good advice and shared the wisdom gained from their experiences. I, too, took over for a "much beloved" SM about two years ago. At that time, the troop operated a lot like the way you describe yours. Take your time during the transition. Just as pargolf mentioned, making a statement such as "this troop is now boy-led" probably won't yield the results you hope for. It is a long slow process making big changes in a troop. Go on as many outings as you can with the scouts during the transition and get to know them. More importantly, let them get to know you. As Eamonn posts "enjoy spending time with the Scouts, they know and can see how much you care." They will feel more at ease when you step up as SM if they feel you are not some stranger coming in to turn things upside down. After I struggled along during my first year as SM, I found this forum. What a tremendous help the folks here have been. The best advice I received (and also the most discouraging) was that changing a troop from adult-led to boy-led can take 3-5 years. I was told that many times the older scouts in the troop just won't buy into change. As they are aging out and your troop has a couple of years of new recruits that learn and operate from the start as boy-run, that's when you will start to see a big difference. I was told to take things in stride. Nothing happens overnight. If, as your troop slowly progress, you suddenly take a giant step backwards, it is not your fault - just growing and adjustment pains. It is not easy, it is a slow process, but it can and will work if you keep yourself focused on your vision for the troop. Over the past two years I certainly have had moments of despair - moments when I just wanted to give up. "Why should I care so much?" I would ask, "no one else does." But then, there would be one small wonderful moment during a campout or meeting when I could see the guys were beginning to understand what a Boy Scout Troop was all about. With renewed spirit I'd charge ahead toward the next small change. And, like orennoah posted "A boy-led troop never quite operates as the Scoutmaster would hope, but it gets close enough often enough to make us elated." I can certainly agree with that. A few days ago I posted a happy little thread praising my guys for having a PLC and making an agenda for this weekend's campout. I'm sure some who read that post are thinking to themselves "big deal, we do that all the time." But, it's a first for our troop and a huge step forward for our guys. Good luck to you, Joe. Remember, small steps. Take enormous pleasure when your scouts do well, but don't take it personally when they do not.

WVCubDad. Tiger Cubs was one of my favorite times in Scouts. Keep in mind that just because you're the Den Leader you don't have to do it all. You stated you have a great group of Tiger Teams - get the help of those parents during your meetings. Think about using a calendar and asking the parents to volunteer to split up the den meetings and each week one of those parents helps. Ask a parent to help you with the paperwork. Ask another to help get permission slips for outings such as your pack overnighter and parade. Share the load! Good luck and welcome to Scouting. Have a great time.

Apologies in advance for the long post. Whatever you call it, Boy-Run, Boy-Led, Scout-Led, etc., our little troop made one more step toward that goal. Without rehashing my posts from the past two years, I will state that we are a young troop and have always been a small troop. I have been SM for almost two years and am the 5th SM in about nine years. Troop began well, all young guys aged 11-12, eager SM, ASMs and Troop Committee. But, aside from setting up a couple of patrols and having SPLs, PLs and other leaders (in name only) that's about as close as our troop ever came to running like a Boy Scout Troop. By the time I came along, SM was doing all the planning and pretty much every adult leader position. He even bought and most of the time cooked meals for campouts. Boys just came along for the ride. Very few outings per year since almost everyone had lost interest. For the past two years I've been writing on the forum about the ups and downs of our progress of changing our troop to follow the Boy Scout methods. The first year was our "hold it together" year. Didn't give the boys much responsibility. Mostly tried to revive our nonexistent recruiting efforts, work toward getting at least three guys to commit to an outing each month, and spoon feed program content to the SPL and the few other youth leaders we had. Also worked endlessly on the adults - trying to get them to see "the vision." (Funny, but getting the adults to change around has actually been harder than the boys). This past year, the spoon feeding continued, but they are beginning to get the idea. Lost a couple of older scouts (Eagled or aged out), but managed to recruit four new Scouts at the end of Spring. Had our first ever planning campout (August 2005) and as of our White Water Trip last month, have done every outing the guys put on the calendar. Now, they still didn't do all of the planning for all of those outings, but they did do the majority of them with a lot of helpful hints from the adults. Last week, new leaders were elected/selected. Last night they had a PLC to plan the agenda for this weekend's annual planning campout. This is the first REAL PLC this troop has had in years. Meeting was originally schedule for Tuesday night. Our regular meetings are on Monday, but since it was Labor Day, the guys figured it would be better to schedule it for Tuesday. I was impressed when the SPL later called to ask if it was OK to have the meeting on Monday instead since he and one of the other scouts had a soccer game on Tuesday. I know, it isn't much, but it's communication, it's compromise, it's taking control of their troop, it's a great big step. So, meeting was held Labor Day evening. After an introduction (by me) to what it is they were expected to do, the 2 ASMs and myself went upstairs and had our own planning meeting and left the scouts to themselves. We heard a lot of discussion. Guys talking over each other. But, about an hour later, I went back downstairs to see about their progress. They said they were just wrapping up and began to tell me the plans. I have to say, I could have done it better myself, but not by much. The schedule they came up with was fairly close to what I would have done. They did include a few more blocks of free time, but explained that those times were for when disasters happen. And, as the SPL said to me, "you know Mrs. B, there are ALWAYS disasters." Their reasoning was that if any of the work/planning time gets out of control and/or the scouts begin to lose interest or focus, they will just eat into the free/fun time. Before we left, I explained to the PLC that they must plan to have such a meeting once a month, a few weeks out from an upcoming campout, at which time they will plan the campout and the weekly meetings leading up to it. So, before leaving last night, the PLC already decided that they will have their meetings on the Monday following a campout. This means, of course, that their very next PLC is next week (following this weekend's campout) and they will work on plans for the fall camporee scheduled for October 13-15. I left last night's PLC with high spirits. I left with the feeling that these guys finally get what I've been trying to do these past two years. In many ways, their level of commitment is beginning to match my own. But, I also left with a little bit of fear. Of all the changes we've made over the past two years, this is the scariest point we've faced. Am I truly ready to give and are the boys truly ready to receive the reigns of this troop? I think so. It won't be easy, but it is the right thing to do. They are ready. They will make mistakes, but they will learn more from those mistakes than any training I have given them. Yep, we're ready for that next big step. Can't wait to see what happens! :-)

In our district, there is much competition between troops. This is probably true across the US. What a wonderful surprise I received last week at our District Popcorn Kickoff. Was talking with an ASM of another troop and mentioned that a new business has started in our community. This new business rents kayaks. They will even transport them and pick them up if you are camping near the lake. I also told him our troop was having its annual planning campout at the lake and was thinking about renting a few kayaks for the scouts to paddle around for some fun. He said his troop had several canoes and a couple of kayaks and he would be glad to lend them to us for the weekend. One troop helping another. FANTASTIC!

Lisabob, I know your sentiments exactly. First Aid merit badge is always taught at our summer camp. This year, 3 of our scouts took the badge, my son included. Over the years I've known the counselors for this badge and have always heard good reports from the scouts about the sessions and felt they earned it. Not this year. All 3 scouts reported at the end of the week that the class was boring, they didn't do anything, and really didn't learn much. No hands on experience, just sit and listen. But, they all received a signed, completed merit badge form (our camp does not use blue cards). So, as the SM, I asked them if they felt they really earned the badge. They all admitted that, no, they had not really earned it. I mentioned to them that because it was signed off, I could not take it away. But, I also asked them how they felt about that. Like most 12-13 year olds, they were conflicted about it. Didn't want to have to do the badge over again, but readily admitted that they didn't learn anything. So, their solution: plan for an opportunity some time in the next year, either during troop meetings or on a campout, to go over first aid. After all, they agreed, everyone in the troop should know first aid.

Our troop pays for adults to go to summer camp. After all, they are taking vacation time from work to volunteer to take the boys to camp. Adults that go on other campouts and drive are not usually reimbursed for gas so this is offset by the troop paying their fee for the campout. All adults pay their share of food costs.

Just got mine yesterday. Over the years I've ordered a man's size for pants since the woman's sizes just didn't fit right. I took a chance and ordered woman's size in the new pants. Perfect fit. Light and comfortable. Can't wait to break 'em in.

Scoutmaster Ron. Your troop's requirement for any female on an outing to essentially have a chaperone along offends me on so many levels. I read your post a couple of days ago and even now can't articulate clearly on this forum how disrespectful and demeaning such a policy is.

Hi folks. Perhaps it is just my computer, but in the last week I've not been able to use the back button on any of the forum topics. I have to reclick the Scout Forums folder at the top left in order to get out of a page I'm reading. Also, I see several messages at the top and on the right side that say "You are not authorized to view this page." Anyone have any suggestions?

I guess I didn't think about question enough - if Dad can't go on an outing, the Scout can't advance to the next level. Didn't think about requirements such as attend five/ten outings, camp a total of 20 nights, etc. If scout can't do this because Dad can't/won't go, then scout would not advance. Anyone know how things have developed in this case?

Hah, I've enjoyed reading others in a similar predicament! To Venividi: what wise words! Last night, our scouts elected new leaders. The quartermaster job was explained as being a job done outside of scout meetings - at our house since that's where the trailer is for a while. One of our newest scouts asked if he could do it. He thought it was really cool that he'd get to go to Mr. and Mrs. B's house and work with Mr. B (our ASM in charge of equipment - and also my husband). One of our older scouts who has recently become active again and wants to have an opportunity for a POR for Eagle, said he would help the young scout. This fits in very well with older scout since he is heavily involved in sports and misses most weekly meetings during his sports seasons, but is managing to attend a few campouts a year. FScouter - unfortunately, as SM, I can't help but be in some ways involved with equipment since my husband is the ASM in charge of it. With the the help of these two scout quartermaster, it will be much easier.

Well said, Ed! Had several parents calling me before we left on our white water trip. It was pouring the night before and hadn't stopped by the time we were leaving. "Are you still going?" they asked. "Of course, I said, "we'll get wet in the river anyway." Even though a few looked mighty skeptical and obviously nervous, no one backed out of the trip. Scouts had a marvelous time. By the way, it did stop raining about 1/2 hour before we took to the river. Still cold and misty in the air, but certainly warmer than the river!

Here is a link. scroll to the bottom and you will find links to all the adult leader awards and requirements. http://www.scouting.org/forms/