gwd-scouter

We had two Eagle Scouts the past two years. The first in 2005, earned it two days before his 18th birthday; the second (2006) earned it one week before his 18th birthday. Neither of these scouts had a COH and probably never will. The first did try to schedule his, but had family conflicts and it just never happened. I have lost touch with both Scouts even though I've repeatedly sent emails, left messages and sent regular letters through the mail. Very sad, but they were so focused on doing what was required to "finish" Eagle that I don't think it really meant all that much to them other than a resume builder. Also, just after finishing, they both graduated High School and moved on to jobs and college. Even though each told me during their Eagle SM Conferences that they wanted to continue to help with the Troop, it never really happened. We currently have three Life Scouts working toward Eagle. One is 16, has finished is project, and is completing one year as SPL. I figure he will get the remaining merit badges done by the end of this year. The other two? One of them I doubt will finish. He has five months left 'till his 18th birthday and has not shown any real commitment to the troop for 3 years. He makes a big show of asking for a POR, gets selected by SPL for one, and then is gone again for six months or more without a word. The other has actually been active, served as our SPL last year and has planned his project. He will also be turning 18 this spring. He only has his project left to do. I really hope that one of these days I'll have the honor of presenting an Eagle Badge to a Scout in our Troop. Maybe this will be the year.

In another thread I mentioned with great enthusiasm how a very large Webelos Den, essentially affiliated with the very large troop in our District, was looking at our troop. I also mentioned how a few folks from the very large Troop were looking for a change and came to one of our meetings. Oh I was so thrilled...but, my excitement was premature (as usual). I know most of the Webelos from that large Den will not be joining our troop. A couple are still undecided, but they are also undecided about whether to move into Boy Scouts at all. Word got out about the Troop folks that came to visit and now their troop is making a big reorganization and turn around (funny, I even noticed on their website that they are now calling the "Class A" the "Official Uniform" like we do. They also have a few trips in the planning stages that mirror our own. I get a weird sort of thrill that the girl Scoutmaster and the boys in her tiny little Troop have somehow influenced that big, long-existing, troop. Anyway...on to the subject. At the end of this school year our troop will be down to eight Scouts. Admittedly, eight very active and enthusiastic Scouts. I see no prospects for recruitment. My younger son is working as a Den Chief for one small Webelos Den. It only has one fifth grader. Another Pack we're trying to work with, and the one from whom we've received a few Webelos last Spring, is very small and has a Webelos Den with one fifth grader. So, if we get these two boys, that will bring our troop to 10. Not too bad, it's around where we've been for years. But, I just keep getting the feeling that I am doing a disservice to these guys by trying to keep this troop together. If part of the perception for people not wanting to join our troop is because bigger is better, would it be better for everyone if we just folded up our tent and worked to find good troops for our boys? Wouldn't it be better for them in the long run to be a part of a larger troop? I have a suspicion that another reason people shy away from us is because of me - you know, a female Scoutmaster. We have very strong male leadership in our troop that work so well with the boys, but I fear that isn't enough. We aren't closing our doors yet and I am about ready to send in our recharter. I just wonder if this year won't be our last.

For as long as I can remember our Scout meetings open with the Pledge, Scout Oath and Law and the Outdoor Code. When a new SPL is elected, there is some discussion about changing the opening of the meetings, but either by tradition or because he can't think of anything different, they continue with the same opening.

Well, all my hopefull thoughts and premature exhuberance seems to be dashed. Yeah, I tend to be a bit too optimistic. Update on our troop. Yep, the Webelos came. Not too many on the campout. Almost a whole den full last week. They came during the meeting when out Scouts had planned to make alcohol stoves. Much fun by all. Now, here's the But... I took the parents out to another room so that I could talk to them separately and answer their questions about our troop. I got the feeling that most of them had already make up their minds about what troop they are going to - and it isn't ours. Two of the moms did say after the meeting that they liked the fact that they felt welcomed in our troop and weren't told outright that they couldn't go on any campouts (all our other troops in the District have strict prohibitions against women on campouts). One of the women is very interested in continuing on in an ASM role in Boy Scouts but, as she said, ours is the only troop where she sees that possibility, but her son wants to go where a couple of his friends are going. I am so frustrated now. I can't help feeling that no matter what we do, no matter how much we show that we are doing it the best way we can as the BSA way, no matter how much our boys have grown and how well they are doing in running "their" program, we will just never be able to compete with the other troops in our District. Meaning, the big troops that "must be good because they have so many boys" or "must be good because everyone advances so quickly." We presented our honest face to those that visited. I guess we will continue to do that and our efforts to recruit word of mouth and one scout at a time. I will spin off another thread eventually about...just when do you decide that it's time to thrown in the towel. I have been priveledged to be the Scoutmaster of this troop for the past two years. I don't want to see this troop fold but without any new recruitment we will be down to 8 scouts by the end of the school year - all but two under 1st class. All you wise folks out there...is there reason to continue to strive to keep this troop together?

While each pack in our district may have its own rules for pinewood derby, the District Derby has a long established set of rules that is posted on the website and talked about many months before the event. Essentially, the car must adhere to the block dimensions of the kit even if you use your own wood, use the wheels and axels (pegs) that come with the kit, and fit into a mold that has been made for measuring the dimensions of the car. Only the powdered graphite is permitted. Even with all the rules posted, there is always someone who shows up with a non-regulation car (most times clearly not made by the Scout) and arguments ensue. Please forgive me that I don't specify the exact regulations, but I believe they are very close to those in the kit and it has been a few years since I've chaired the District event. To go off topic a bit and add some shameless boasts, my older son has been asked to be the emcee and official starter of our District PWD Derby for the past five years. Originally asked when he was a Boy Scout to help out, he's in his 2nd year of college now and was asked and is coming home again just to do this next month (hey Barry...he "loves this scouting stuff"). Younger son is also helping as the pit crew for his 2nd year checking in and handing out the cars during race time. A District Pinewood Derby legacy in the making! Ah, there are many times I reflect and truely miss the Cub Scouts.

Thanks folks for your intersting comments. I admit it never really occurred to me that there may be nefarious reasons why someone would not want to give their DL number. Just never happened before. In this case, Dad has never been active in the troop and this is only the second time he's joining us. His older son has been in the troop for five years and younger son for two. The first time he helped with a campout when we did motor boating (his boat) merit badge and water skiing. He complained then about having to wear lifejackets (G2SS guidelines) and refused to wear one. I tried to explain, but he just wouldn't listen and made a point of being very loud when he stated his objections. Yes, all the Scouts and leaders wore lifejackets, but I was sorry the tension remained. As in the motor boating incident in which I clearly explained the BSA guidelines and the reasons (you know, aren't you glad we follow the guidelines to help ensure the safety of YOUR sons, etc.), I also told him the reasons I was asking for the DL number (safety of all the boys - would you want your son to ride in a car with someone that we did not verify DL and insurance?) etc., but no response. Oh well....

I just got a call from a Dad who will be one of our drivers for our upcoming ski trip. He tells me because of the possibility for identity theft, he will not give me his Drivers License number for the Tour Permit. Am sending it along to Council without the number and haven't heard back from them yet. Anyone ever run into this situation?

Your Webelos Scout may wear a temporary patch sewn on the right pocket AND his compass emblem from his right pocket button - just as Wolf and Bear may wear a temp patch along with the progress towards rank beads.

Hey Hops. Not sure I signed up correctly. Never got to a place to type in the join #scouting. Too bad that Computer Science Degree I have doesn't seem to be holding up very well these days. heh heh

Heh heh. Yeah, scoutingagain, I get it. I guess it just seemed like a great way to do things in our troop because it has never been done before. Meaning...our Troop Guides never did that kind of thing in the past, nor have the PLs, SPLs...well, you get my meaning. Thanks.

Had a parent stop by my office one day. When she entered my office she said "wow, I didn't recognize you with clothes on." Yes, of course, she meant REGULAR clothes!

Wow, thanks Scoutnut, I missed that part in the Project Workbook.

Gotta agree on the bad press being we are the most visible group going into the backwoods. Once a year at roundtable we have a session on leave no trace. Without fail, the instructors have told us that the most offensive users of the outdoors (as seen by the general public) are Boy Scouts. Are we really? Probably not, but that's seems to be the perception.

OK. I may be showing my ignorance here, but where does is the requirement that the Eagle BOR approves the completion of the project? I just had a session with a current Eagle candidate and signed off on the completion of his project. There is no where else that someone from the District Advancement has to sign-off that it has been completed. Now, I know that during an Eagle BOR a lot of questions may have to do with the candidates project. But I can't find any evidence that the BOR has to be satisfied as to the how that project was completed. I bring this up specifically because of the Eagle candidate I just mentioned. He has completed his project, his POR and his "active for 6 months" requirements. But, he has to still finish five Eagle required merit badges. It could be over a year before he does that (or more). Is he going to find out in a year or so that some future BOR is not going to be satisfied about how he completed his project?

Lisabob, my older son lost his handbook when he was getting ready for 1st class. Fortunately, his troop did have troopmaster and had recorded all entries from his handbook. He bought a new handbook and had the Advancement Chair record what he had done. But, this only happened because that troop had a policy that nothing was recorded in Troopmaster if it was not signed off already in the Scout handbook. I liked that. It made the Scouts more responsble for their advancement. Our troop has had a history of putting things in Troopmaster, but not having it recorded in the handbook. This led to Scouts never bringing their handbooks (except for SM Conf and BOR at which time most things were dated and signed) and actually not really knowing when and what they did. Oh, as a note, older son's "lost" handbook did finally show up - when he was getting ready for his BOR for Life! Now it's a dog-eared, treasured keepsake.

LisaBob, yes we have tapped the school and did recruiting in the classroom last year. We did the recruitment for the 6th graders at the beginning of the school year. Result was one scout each year. Our Advancement Chair is a teacher at that school and has been a huge help in getting us in the door to make our pitch. We are planning to target the fifth graders this spring and maybe we'll be lucky and get a couple from that effort. No, the school isn't mostly girls, but class sizes are about 10-15 and evenly split boys-girls. Having thought about it a bit: for two years before I was SM, we had no recruitment at all; two years ago we got two new Scouts from recruiting; last year we got four. OK, so we have increased recruitment. I guess I'm just so anxious for our troop - we've come so far - but, I always feel like we are on the precipice of falling apart (yeah, I know, I post all those threads about the wonderful things that happen - I tend to get a bit overenthusiastic about the good stuff).

Interesting question. I wasn't aware that Council had any say in what was an acceptable Eagle project, but I'm sure there are others on this forum more intelligent than I on that subject. I am a new SM and have for the past two years had to give unit approval for 4 Eagle projects so far. Two were very straight forward construction/conservation type projects and were very easy to see the leadership qualities involved. But the last two were beyond my abilities. I had to go to the District Advancement Chair and ask for guidance. One, completed last summer, involved collecting and organizing medical supplies for a mission trip. The second, still ongoing, is making an historic record, both written and photographed, of our town while our local museum and historic district is undergoing major renovations, cultimating in the making of frames and mountings for the photos to hang in the museum. With such limited experience, I just couldn't personally see how these could be Eagle projects. But, I casually discussed them during a roundtable with our District Advancement Chair. He said, have them write it up, come to me to talk about it, and as long as they will show leadership in the development of the project, gathering volunteers to help, and carrying out said project, then it's a go. I was reminded by the Advancement Chair - the Eagle project is less about the work that is done and more about the leadership shown by the Eagle candidate. I have read on forums such as this and other places about Scouts doing a blood drive and similar things - toy drive, clothing drive, food drive - as Eagle projects and am anxious to read what others post.

The current thread running about BORs got me thinking. I've had several occasions when the head of a BOR has come to me later to mention that X Scout did not know much about first aid or didn't remember ever doing lashings, etc. Just a note - none of these Scouts "failed" the BOR. I was so happy to get this feedback because it shed some light on a problem our troop has had in the past and one that I've being trying hard to correct - a scout being signed off for a requirement that he may not actually have done. A lot of this happens from summer camp when our new Scouts go through the pathfinder program. I don't want SM conferences to become a retest of scout skills, but I do take the time to talk to them about what they've learned. Admittedly, the above examples were oversights on my part because I never actually asked about those specific things during the SM conferences for those two particular scouts. Anyway, since then, we've asked our T-1st class Scouts when they feel they're ready for a SM Conference to sit down with an older Scout first and go over the requirements. This is working very well - giving the young scout a chance to talk about and remember what he's done and giving our older scouts opportunities for mentoring. A tweak in the program? Probably is. Can't see where it's prohibited. The result so far has been our younger Scouts coming for a SM conference better prepared and with less trepidation than before. And, it has also helped us (the adults) to learn about weaknesses in our program offerings and skills instructions for those young scouts so that we can then guide the PLC. Just thought I'd post this to see what others thought.

Hi Paul and Welcome to the Forum. What a pleasure to have your first post as a response to my thread! I agree with you on building a strong relationship with packs. We currently have one Scout serving as a Webelos Den Chief for a small struggling pack. I also have had many conversations with the CM during roundtables and he seems to have good feelings about tying in with our Troop. Sadly, the Webelos Den right now only has one 5th grader and three 4th graders. As I said, very small pack. We also have the pack we traditionally recruit from, but it too is a very small pack chartered by a private Christian school and currenly has one fifth grader and four 4th graders in the Webelos den. I have worked the past two years very closely with the Cubmaster of that pack and am meeting with the Webelos den leader this month to find out what, if anything, we can help with as a Troop. Our campout in December was open to any and all Webelos. I contacted the two packs mentioned above but got no takers. I was contacted by the Webelos den leader from another pack that traditionally crosses its boys over to the Troop with same CO. I told her about the campout and she said she'd tell her den. Only a couple of the boys and parents/leaders came to the campout and have said they had a great time and are probably going to come to our Troop when they crossover. So, recruitment continues to be small but we are trying. I wonder sometimes if folks tend to overlook us because we are small, preferring to go to the larger troops in town simply because they feel that since the troop has so many boys it must be the best.

Thank you guys for such quick responses. Scoutldr: Our District has about 10 Scout Troops: one that used to be our only mega-troop has now dwindled from an average of 60 Scouts to about 30. Another at one time had about 50 scouts and now has in the mid-20s. All the other troops are like mine, somewhere in the neighborhood of 12-20 Scouts, a couple with less than 12. I, too, have often thought that our area just isn't big enough or populous enough to have so many separate troops and that combining a few would be a good idea - but that's a subject for another thread. I gather from you folks that the best thing we could do right now is focus on creating one strong patrol, elect a patrol leader for that one patrol and move forward. Have them make a patrol flag, select a name and a cheer. I understand the suggestions that we would then not really need an SPL, but we have a couple of guys that seem eager to run for that position when we have elections next month. We have for a while had an SPL, an ASPL, PL, Troop Guide, Scribe, and Quartermaster - yep, almost everyone in the troop has a POR, but they have all actually been doing their jobs even if they've been a bit redefined for our particular situation. I realize that's a bit weird to have an SPL, ASPL and PL since we only have one patrol, but I somehow thought that a troop HAD to have a SPL. Learning all the time. As we have it now: SPL runs the meetings and heads-up the PLC, ASPL mostly just fills in when SPL is absent, PL and Troop Guide are in charge of those scouts under 1st class. That leaves a couple of older Scouts, admittedly not very active, that have no real sense of place in the troop. This set up has been working with some success, but it is confusing at times for the younger scouts about just who is in charge. Thanks again folks. I look forward to more suggestions.

As yes, I was also CM for a mega-pack for five years. When I stepped down I was presented with a very nice engraved glass trophy with my years of service. The best thing, though, was the slide show that included pictures of the Cubs I had served for all those years - parades, picnics, den meetings, campouts. Oh yeah, they had some very funny pictures of me in there too, acting every bit the silly Cubmaster. I still cherish the memories of my years in Cub Scouts. Yesterday I received a most wonderful gift and one that I'm sure you will all agree is the best part about being involved in Scouting. One of the den leaders from my days as CM called. Seems his son has earned his Eagle and is having his ceremony next month. Dad called to tell me that his he and his son would very much like to have me take some part in the ceremony. Now, I haven't seen this boy since he crossed over from the pack to a troop five years ago. Whew - that brought a tear to my eye for sure!

Hi forum folks. I've hesitated posting this question because I'm not sure I'll be able to ask it clearly enough. As a reminder: we are a small troop with now 12 registered Scouts. A few of those Scouts are more or less inactive, or at least cannot be counted on to show up regularly for meetings or outings. Recently we've actually had a better than average turn out for meetings and outings (almost 100%), but our usual number is somewhere around 6-8 Scouts. Add to that, it is not ALWAYS the same 6-8 Scouts. We had a bit of excitement last month when we thought several Scouts and Dads from another Troop were going to transfer to ours. Turns out, their Troop got wind of this and has made major adjustments to the way they run the troop. Needless-to-say, I'm amazed that our little troop had so much impact on that once mega troop that they are changing their ways to avoid defections to ours. Anyway, no transfers going to happen now. Also, couple of months ago was contacted by Webelos den leader of 10 who was bringing her den to a meeting. Well, we've only actually had a couple of those Scouts show up and go on last month's campout with the troop. The rest of her den is scheduled to visit one of meetings this month. But, in the end, I know that most of her den is already committed to joining the troop with the same CO, a couple of her scouts are joining another troop, and that just leaves 3 undecided. Hopefully, they will decide on us. Still working with two other very very small packs, each with only one fifth grader this year, planning to cross over to our troop in the Spring. So, very low recruitment once again this year. We will be losing three or four of our current scouts by the summer since three will be turning 18 and one has basically said he just doesn't have time because of sports. That means even if we get 3-4 new Scouts this spring, we will still only have around 12 in the troop, still with a few of those guys that just can't be counted on to show up. We are putting on a great show, the boys are planning fantastic outings, meetings are something less than spectacular but far better than boring, and attendance is up from last year. But, we just can't seem to grab a good bunch of new recruits. It is hard enough to get new Scouts one or two at a time as we continue to do. As I said, we will probably get about four new Scouts this year, but they will come one or two in February, one or two in late April. How, oh how, will we ever get to the Patrol Method? I know in my heart that it is the key area in which we are lacking. I just don't know how to get there, how to implement it, where and/or when to start. We have tried in the past to set up two small patrols. The Scouts themselves organized them and elected patrol leaders. They essentially were one patrol of all the older scouts and one with all younger/new scouts. This wasn't so bad until we went on a couple of campouts and only a few of the younger scout patrol signed up and one or two of the older scout patrol. Most of the time the patrol leaders and SPL were absent. This led to combining the patrols for the campouts, which of course became combining the patrols for meetings, which led to having only one patrol, which led to absolutely no patrol method. I've never had any better reminder of this than at last night's meeting when one of the scouts we had join last summer was asking one of our older scouts to sign him off on some of his Tenderfoot requirements. They came to the "know your patrol yell and describe your patrol flag." Well, guess what? We don't have patrol flags, yells, names because we don't really have any patrols. The Scout did remember the patrol name, flag and yell from the patrol he was in during summer camp! I wouldn't have a problem going with two small patrols again, even if that means that perhaps only 3 guys from a patrol show up for a campout. However, if the same thing happens as before with poor turnout, it will cause the small patrol to have to do so much extra work at meetings and campouts that they'll start to think the whole thing is just too much work and lose interest. Sorry if this post is rambling, but I sure could use your help and advice.

Trevorum's post reminds me of something my father used to say. He had little patience for folks that waxed nostalgic at the "good ol' days." He would talk about his poor childhood in a rough neighborhood in New Jersey. He would talk about his years as a young soldier in WWII. He talked about his stuggles to earn enough money to continue college after the war. He talked about his worries of nuclear war while raising his four young children. In his late 70s, he would look at his four grown children, all well-educated and well-employed, raising children of their own. He would look around his house at all the comforts and conveniences he worked hard for and earned. He would look lovingly at his wife of close to 50 years. A smile would come across his face and he'd say to us, don't look back children. Remember....THESE are the good ol' days.

Not sure what you're asking about props. We use a candle lighting ceremony at the beginning of Courts of Honor. Currently using a stand built with 2x4s, but Scouts want to make one out of a log like ScoutNut mentions. Our ceremony is similar to Local1400's except in ours the Scouts do the whole thing, each in turn saying a point of the law and lighting a candle. Very nice. Older son used something similar for his Eagle Court of Honor, but at that time we had no candle stand so just used one large candle (spirit of Scouting) and 12 votive candles set on a table.

I have a similar situation, or rather "a tale of two Life Scouts." Life Scout #1 - been at this rank for 3 years, will turn 18 in June. Very into multiple varsity sports and quite good I'm told. Hence, always misses meetings and outings. Past year has said he wants to get Eagle, but comes on strong for a week or two and then is gone again. Has been told repeatedly that he must fulfill a POR. Have given this Scout every chance and opportunity to succeed - he just doesn't want to commit. Sadly, parents have now resigned to the fact that he probably will not earn his Eagle. There is, of course, still hope for the next six months. Life Scout #2 - been at this rank for two years. First year he was mostly absent and non-committed to the troop. Same reasons as Scout above - very heavily involved in varsity sports. But, also, he, like the Scout above, just seemed to lose interest in Scouts. This past year something happened and he has suddenly become our most enthusiastic Scout. Was elected to SPL last January and has continued in the job to this date. Finished his Eagle Scout Service Project over the summer. Called me last night to ask if he could come by this weekend. Seems over the Christmas Break he met with the organization for whom he did his project and got final completion signatures. Now he wants to meet with me to get my final approval and begin the process of looking over his application for Eagle. I have mentioned to all of our Life to Eagle Scouts these past years that I'd like them to schedule appointments with me to answer questions, go over advancements and projects, etc., rather than take up Troop meeting time. Life Scout #1 above just doesn't get it. He pops in to a meeting and announces that he needs to talk with me about such and such (most times, the only meetings he shows up for). Life Scout #2 gets it and has made arrangements with me many times, either before or after a meeting, or even coming to my office, to go over his Eagle materials. Such a difference! I wish I knew what sparked enthusiasm back into Scout #2 and what, if anything, could be done to light the fire back into Scout #1.