gwd-scouter

OFS must be setting in because I don't have a clue what some of those mean: CRS, LSMFT, EVOO, SSDD??? I feel so sad for not knowing, can't even get up enough strength to ROF to LMAO.....

Wasn't Kirk the only person to ever beat the Kobayashi Maru? Sorry, couldn't resist.

Beavah wrote "Personally, I think our unwillingness to talk openly and frankly about religion impoverishes kids, and perpetuates sectarian strife and prejudices." I agree with you Beavah, unfortunately I have personal experience that open discussions of religion, at least in my neck of the woods, can lead to serious fallout. First, I will admit to being brought up Catholic, but I do not attend any particular church or subscribe to a particular brand of religion. This doesn't sit well here in the South! I don't profess to not believe in God, just don't believe in the God being described by the organized religions. I will also admit that this is the feeling of most of the adult leaders in our Troop and many of the Scouts. On the other hand, we have a fairly vocal group of Scouts and Parents that are fully behind the "Jesus is your personal savior, and if you aren't saved you're going to Hell" crowd. Nothing wrong with that if it's your belief. But, that kind of announcement at a campfire among a bunch of youthful Scouts can lead to an uproar. So, on a campout about a year ago, the Scouts began discussing religion. I saw nothing wrong in their free exchange of ideas and actually was impressed at their level of ideas at such young ages. Most guys were in the middle somewhere in their beliefs but we had two on the very fundamentalist side, one bordering on atheism and one self-proclaimed Wiccan. Heated debate to be sure and eventually I changed the subject. Cut to the following Monday after our Scout meeting. Dad of one of the fundamentalist Scouts came to our meeting, waited until it was over, and then blasted away at me in the parking lot in view of his sons. He said the BSA was a Christian Organization and I had no right to allow any discussion of religion other than Christianity. He said that he knew for sure that some of the ideas being espoused during the campfire were not those of our Chartered Organization. True I said, but our Chartered Organization has never said our Troop had to fall in with their teachings and beliefs. I mentioned that while Scouting had a component of faith it was not solely a Christian Organization and that I was planning to continue to support the idea that the Boys in our Troop could follow their own (family's) beliefs - even talk about them if they wanted to. He then said he wanted me to make a statement to the Troop (Scouts and Parents) acknowledging that we (mostly meaning I) was not representative of the Christian philosophy behind both the BSA and our Chartered Organization. I agreed to make a statement about the campfire and that the beliefs expressed by some were not consistent with our CO. But, I also told him that I was not going to say that those were inconsistent with the BSA. The meeting came. His wife was there and both of his sons, along with most of our other Scouts. In my SM Minute I mentioned that I had been requested by a parent to talk about the campfire, the debate over religion and the beliefs of our CO (I did not mention who that parent was). Basically it came down to me saying that while our CO may be a Baptist Church, it has not made it a requirement that the adults or Scouts must be members. I also said that while the BSA does have "Duty to God" it very clearly states that the BSA will not define how a Scout must believe in God or which God. Lastly, I reminded the Scouts and adults present that no one in our troop would be prohibited from speaking his mind or following his own beliefs. On a side note: While that Dad was blasting away at me in the parking lot, I must admit to feeling very proud that I kept my cool. It made him seem more unreasonable the more he talked. When he said, "I'm sure you think this is all very trivial since you don't believe in God," I admit I almost lost it. His statement isn't actually true, but I felt I would not get anywhere with him if I proceeded to defend myself. I simply said that no, I did not think it was trivial at all and that while I appreciated him bringing his concerns to me, I would follow my own conscience and the requirements of the BSA. In the end, I asked if he felt so strongly about this if he thought perhaps I was not the kind of SM he wanted for his boys. Both his sons looked rather stricken when I said that. To his credit, his sons remain in our troop.

Learn something on this forum every day. I had no idea that there were different set ups for Eagle BOR. Our District Advancement Chair presides over Eagle BORs and he selects a couple of others to help. I don't know how he picks them, but it seems sometimes it's just whoever happens to be available. Eagle BORs as well as project approvals are done after District Roundtable. Sadly, that means the Eagle candidate is usually sitting around during for him what is a boring adult meeting - sometimes for well over an hour. The reason I mention that our District Adv. Chair sometimes just picks whoever is available is because of my Eagle candidate last Spring. For his BOR, our Adv. Chair was present along with a Committee person from another troop and another scouter that same troop I didn't know very well. Only the Adv. Chair was in uniform (besides the Eagle Scout). While I've know him for many years and like and highly regard our District Adv. Chair, I really wasn't at all impressed with these Eagle BORs and have seen similar situations for the past year.

It's funny, but as we were coming home from the District PWD, my younger son who was helping out asked me why the Boy Scouts don't do PWD derby. He then asked if the other guys liked the idea, could we do a derby in our Troop. Why not? Sounds like fun. Probably could tie the making of the cars into woodcarving merit badge eh?

That's interesting about 50% "active" members present. We did not have elections last year because we didn't have any eligible Scouts. But the year before, we had two Scouts eligible. I remember being asked by the Scout in charge of the elections how many boys we had on our roster - not how many were active. At that time, we had quite a few registered only Scouts and our Troop was still in a transition stage with very sporadic attendance. It was really just a stroke of luck that we had enough Scouts show up on election night to make 50% of our registered Scouts. We will have at least two Scouts eligible of election this Spring. Fortunately for us, we are now consistently having meetings with well over 50% of our Scouts in attendance.

Our Council has a Gold Star Unit award that among other things has a requirement that a unit recharter with at least one more member than the previous year. This led, in our troop at least, for years of recharters with absent Scouts. The troop actually paid the dues each year for these absent fellows just to get free rank patches. Being a small troop, those free rank patches probably didn't equal the registrations paid. Couple of years ago as SM, I deleted all those non-active Scouts and only rechartered with those that paid dues. Wow - Troop Committee at the time was somewhat outraged and DE questionned how our Troop went from 20 registered Scouts to 14. Over the past two years we dropped again to 12 and have kept that same number for two years. This year, we rechartered with only 11. We have had some recruitment, but we have also had a bulk of our Scouts age out. In essence, we've cleaned house over the last couple of years and are now at a place where we have a nice range of Scouts and plan to add a couple of new guys this Spring. The new Centennial Quality Unit award is something else entirely. I do feel that it will encourage padding and inflation of numbers since we have to make a kind of "pledge" about what we will do in advancement, retention and recruiting. At our Roundtable, we were encouraged to put low numbers on the form for the coming year. Our troop has come a long way these past couple of years in improving program and attendance. While recruiting is still slow, I think we're doing things right in our Troop. Boys are having fun and advancing along the way. Others in our area have come to take a look at our Troop and while they may have decided to join others, at least we're being considered. I will do what I can to work toward earning the Centennial Quality Unit award, but I will not inflate numbers nor will I do anything at the expense of my boys, their program, or our Troop.

Ah, so many fond(?) memories of running pwd derby. From the very first race with my then 1st grade son and a boy-made car that only made it halfway down the track until it stopped dead, to watching that now 20 year old son emcee the District race with his 13 year old brother as pit crew, I have seen so many rules added to the Pwd derby that it seems to have sucked all the fun out of the event. Our District rules now number close to two pages. Check-in and weigh-in was an elaborate time consuming process, truly an inspection. I can attest that some if not most of those rules were added as a result of some parent complaining about an "illegal" car. This year I watched part of our District event. I stood by and watched the Dads carry in their son's car. I watched the Dads weigh and tweak the car until entering it for final inspection. Unless those Scouts were gifted in woodworking, I didn't see any cars that looked boy-made among the 90 or so entries. Then the races. No cheering, no fun. Boys put their cars at the top of the track. They weren't even allowed time to go down to the end of the track to cheer on their car. Adult at the top started the cars - my younger son as pit crew picked them up and brought them back to the pit area. Electronic timers and computers calculated the winners. The crowd paid little attention until their boy's name appeared on the screen that it was their turn to race. Trophies and medals are quickly forgotten and put away in a drawer somewhere. We can create all the rules we want to make the races fair. There will always be those parents who want their boy to win at all costs. They will build their son's car rather than share in the experience of working together. They will complain if their "son's" car doesnt win. But, my experience has been that the boys just want to watch their car run down the track.

Happy Birthday Hops!

Prairie, you mentioned cancelling a trip because you didn't have enough Scouts. How many is enough? I ask because our Troop had several years of cancelled trips because of poor attendance numbers. This led, in my opinion, to apathy among the Scouts. A couple of years ago when my husband and I became the only "active" adults, we made a decision that we would not cancel any trips except for extreme circumstances. Ours is a very small troop and many times we took a trip with only 3 Scouts. But, we went somewhere every month. Over the past two years this has led to increased attendance not only at meetings but on the trips. Still, we have recruiting problems. We had 3 Webelos crossovers last year and plan to receive 2 this year. We have lost a few boys over the years - dropping out for a number of reasons - but a couple of them have indicated they might be coming back. Our program is the draw - word of mouth from the Scouts in the Troop. Our guys have worked hard these past two years to come up with fun and adventurous monthly outings-campouts and have planned them well. A couple of our Scouts were recruited back after having disappointing experiences in another Troop. I agree with others here that there was more difficulty in convincing the parents to give Scouting another try. Both of those boys came back with a bit of trepidation, but one has been with the Troop for almost two years, the other joined last summer. The first is working on his Star rank, the second is almost finished with 1st class. The first was just elected as our SPL, the second would like to be our Troop bugler. Both are among the most active of our Scouts and have participated in every outing we've had since they joined. Fathers of these guys have signed on as ASMs and they and their sons are wonderful additions to our Troop. I will note that the parents of both of these boys had very negative views of Scouting and it did take some persuasion to get their sons signed back up. Mom of one of the Scouts said she would let her son do it for six months, but he could drop after that if he wasn't having a good time. Well, his six months are up and he has no plans for leaving and Mom and Dad are both excited about their younger son joining the troop in a year when he's old enough. Keep at it prairie and good luck. Recruiting is important no matter the size of the Troop. Its Me - absolutely try to contact your Webelos that dropped. I found many times that boys got bored in Webelos and then never even thought about joining a Troop. Or, perhaps they just don't know how to contact a Troop. Maybe they don't know about the differences between Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts. I would make a phone call though and talk to the parents rather than sending an email. The personal touch usually works better.

A related question - have always been told that we can't have elections in our troop unless we have more than 50% of our scouts present. Is this true?

What a pleasure Saturday was. About a month ago, I received an invitation to attend Eagle Court of Honor for one of my former Cubscouts. It's been five years since he crossed over and joined the Troop (not the Troop I am currently serving) and I haven't seen him much except occasionally at Camporees. It was wonderful to see him and his parents again on Saturday. I was Cubmaster for many years and a lot of those former Cubs have had Eagle COH, but he is only the second Scout that seemed to remember my comment each year to the Webelos crossing over "don't forget to send me an invitation to your Court of Honor when you earn Eagle."

The Den Chief position is near and dear to me. Older son served for 3 years as a Webelos Den Chief and younger son is just starting his 1st year as a Webelos Den Chief after serving one year as Den Chief to a Wolf Den. Perhaps because I truly know the value of the Den Chief position, ours is the only Troop in town that will provide one if asked. Other SM in our District will not supply Den Chiefs because almost all of the packs and troops in our District meet on the same night. Those SMs feel that their scouts need to be at their meetings and will not allow them to miss in order to go to Den meetings. Very sad indeed. The result - I have three packs asking me for Den Chiefs from our Troop. I know of two Scouts in our troop that would serve very well in that position (other than my son who is already helping a Pack) and have asked them to consider the job. The problem I'm facing is that while I would love to supply the Den Chiefs to these packs, our troop is so small that with the repeated absence of up to three of our Scouts, we'd have very small meetings. The Cubmasters in these packs certainly understand and came up with an idea that the Den Chiefs only come to half of the den meetings and then half of our troop meetings - kinda of an every other week thing. At the very least, two of the Cubmasters have asked if our troop could provide a few Boy Scouts for assistance at a couple of their Pack functions (pinewood derby, campouts, etc.). Again, they've asked other Troops and other troops are not interested. Another positive side to supplying Den Chiefs to Packs is that it gets your troop's name out there to folks who may otherwise not even know you exist and help in the long run in recruiting efforts.

Our Council Camp has 3-sided Adirondacks and I fairly sure that all the Troops in our District at least count one week of summer camp in those adirondacks toward camping merit badge. Having said that, I know that the Scouts in our troop usually complete camping merit badge late in their career and have well over 20 nights in tents and really don't need to count any of their summer camps.

In my early years, listening to our Priest conjured up images of playing a fun game while eating a snack Dominos Nabisco!

John-in-KC. No, in our troop if a fella is working as a Den Chief he gets full credit and all my support for having served in a POR even though he misses our Troop meetings. He is kept in the loop by the SPL. We have worked it out with Den Leaders now and in the past that our Den Chiefs should attend our Troop meeting held the week before one of our campouts in order to help in the planning. So, our Den Chiefs work 3 out of four weeks with the Packs. This was actually met with much surprise by the two Packs that we're working with right now. Both Cubmasters were told by other Troops they contacted that because their Den Meetings were held on the same night as the Troop's meetings, they couldn't provide Den Chiefs. When I offered up our guys and said of course they can miss Troop meetings, they are serving their troop by providing service to you...well, jaws dropped, stunned looks and thanks all around. Now, if we can just work to build those two packs up so that they have more than just one fifth grader next year...

I wrote in my other thread that when I was a Webelos Den Leader, I just figured we naturally would crossover to the Troop that met at the same place we did. I had a good relationship with the Scoutmaster there, thought a lot of him (and he of me), and at the time really didn't know anything about any other troops in the District. As Webelos Den Leader I crossed over 8 boys to that Troop. After two years, only one - my son - remained, and he was ready to quit too. He joined a smaller troop in town, didn't know anyone in the troop, but boy did he thrive! Since those early days I've learned a lot about Troops and Packs and have always thought that our District needed someone to be a Webelos to Scout Transition Coordinator. You know, someone that could go to the Troops and Packs and talk to them about recruiting. Maybe that's a good job for me in a few years when I step down as SM. I would really like to see some real involvement from the troops in opening their doors to the Webelos. Most of our Troops just sit back and wait for their "feeder" packs to send Scouts to them. It was quite a shock to the aforementioned Troop that "their" Webelos Den came to visit us. I think they may be realizing that they need to do more than just sit back. They need to welcome those Webelos on a campout or two, they need to help with their Pinewood Derbies, they need to help with providing Den Chiefs. Our little troop has done and is doing all those things and will still probably not get any recruits this year. But as many of you have suggested - we're getting our name out there, eventually (hopefully) they will come.

Yes, in speaking of that large Webelos Den that came to visit, I have talked with some of the parents that chose another troop. A bit of background, this den was formed as Tigers during my last year as Cubmaster for that Pack, so these folks actually know me and may be a reason why they came to visit in the first place. I have talked with the Den Leader to find out where all her Webelos were going. The Asst. Den Leader, whose son came on the campout with us, stopped by our meeting last week and handed me a note from her son saying that he thanked me for letting him visit, but he chose to go with the troop (meaning the one with the same CO). Oh my, she seemed almost embarrased. She said, she left the choice up to him, but if it were her choice he (they) would have joined our troop. The Den Leader, whose son also came on our campout is still undecided but tells me she will leave it up to her son. She says she loves our website, our calendar, and our communications and mostly our receptiveness to their visits and requests - she has not had such experience with the other troops in town. One of the Dads that visited our troop meeting with his son said he enjoyed the meeting, his son interacted very well with our Scouts, but will probably go with the larger troop because, again, that's where some of the other guys are going. Not the whole 10-member den is joining that , one is headed to the Catholic group, and a couple are going to the "easy" troop - you know, the one where the adults do everything including the cooking, and a couple the den leader tells me don't think they'll even continue into Boy Scouts. So, the boys will choose to go where their friends are going, or where their parents decide, or quit at Cubs. None are the best choices I agree. Back in the day when I was a Webelos Den Leader with the aforementioned Pack affiliated with the same mega-troop, I knew no better than to have the entire Den, including my son, cross over to that Troop. A bit less than two years later, my son wanted to quit Boy Scouts altogether. That's the time we found the small troop for whom I am now the SM - a troop in which he thrived while he was still a Scout (he's 20 now). So, yes, I think a couple of the parents in the den are familiar with me, what our Troop has to offer, and the differences in the Troops in our District. Our door is always open...and I left it at that. Hey LisaBob - hijack away, you always have such great insight and most times are able to take my posts and reword them more toward the way I wished I had typed in the first place.

Thanks for your comments folks. I re-read my post and my gosh I didn't mean to sound so gloomy. All is not lost after all, maybe I just have the winter doldrums. As I've said many times in my posts, I really like the boys in this troop and am enormously proud of how hard they have worked to "own" it. We may only have 10 guys active right now, but then again we've had at least 50% turnout at every campout for the past year and these past couple of months we've topped 80%. That's fantastic by anyone's reckoning. So, the program is there. The enthusiastic, teachable youth are there. We have one Scout currently serving as a Den Chief and another pack that has asked for one. This I find very interesting actually - we seem to be the ONLY troop in town that will provide a Den Chief. All of the Troops and Packs in our District meet on Monday nights (except for maybe one or two). So, the Troops say they cannot provide a Den Chief because their Scouts have to be at Troop meetings. I say, let them work as a Den Chief - that is also service to the Troop by providing a "look" at the future for the Cubs, and they can find out what they've missed from regular meetings from their PL/SPL. LisaBob says something interesting that I just couldn't quite put into words - it seems unfair that some of the other troops in our District don't even have to try to recruit and they get Scouts anyway. Very true here. In fact, some of the folks that came to visit our Troop did so only to satisfy the AOL requirement. They came to our meeting because they could not attend the scheduled night to visit with the troop they ultimately joined. That troop also would not allow them to go on a campout with them and only allows Webs to join them in Scouting for Food as a Troop activity. Why then did they not choose us? We will continue offering our services to Packs in our District. We will continue to provide Den Chiefs. My sons have both been asked to help MC the District Pinewoody Derby, so that puts our face out there. Younger son and another Scout in our Troop have been asked if they'd help with Day Camp - another opportunity for our Troop to have contact with Cubs. Many of you have said that I've only been at this for two years and you're right. It will take several more years of folks seeing who we are and what we're doing, before the tide hopefully starts to turn in our direction. I can work at it for a few more years I think.

Oh good grief, I obviously need more coffee this morning. Please disregard my question about merit badge requirement. I read the thing again and had a "Duh" moment.

Hey Pack, Wow "ruff" time for your daughter. Hope she'll be OK. No merit badges on this trip. We did cover safety, hypothermia, and skiing etiquette rules, etc. during scout meetings leading up to the trip. But, the boys were not at all interested in setting aside time on the trip to cover other points of the snow sports merit badge. They just wanted to shred some snow and have a good time. And...they did! I do have a question about the merit badge: requirement #5 says to complete all of the requirement for ONE of the following and then lists a bunch of options a, b, c, etc. Does that mean that if a Scout does for instance option d under Downhill Skiing (name the major ski organizations in the US), that he will have completed that requirement?

scoutldr, I'd like to see that too. T-1st Class have some kind of active requirement (attend 5 outings, 10 outings, etc.), but S-E do not. As we all read in these forums, time and again someone will post a question about just what "active" means. Interestingly enough, and I don't agree with it, but we have one troop in our District that actually added the requirement you speak of for advancement - i.e., no one in their troop advances to the next rank (any rank) unless they have 60% attendance for outings and meetings for the 12 months preceding their request for a SM conference and BOR for rank.

Boys and adults had a GREAT time! North Carolina was fortunate to get some snow that past few weeks and Wolf Ridge was blowing snow every night with freezing temps, so the skiing was OK (at least by East Coast standards). From what I've heard, our guys are most assuredly going to have skiing on the calendar again.

TheScout: There is no one else to take over as Scoutmaster, at least not at this time, and I am surely not staying on as SM simply because of some misguided notion that I'm the best there is.

Hunt: our program, even with a small Troop, is one thing in my opinion that sets us apart from other troops. With the exception of Oct. 2005 when my husband was in a serious car wreck, we have not once canceled a monthly outing for lack of adults or boys. Can't say the same for other Troops in our District that regularly cancel outings for one reason or another, yet seem to be able to attract new Scouts.