gwd-scouter

New Scouts in our area are encouraged to take the Pathfinder Program at our Council's summer camp. This program is designed to expose the new Scouts to the advancement requirements for Tenderfoot through 1st Class. I say "expose" because the requirements, while covered and talked about, are not signed off at camp. That is up to the Troop when it gets back home to assess whether the Scout actually did any of those requirements. While it is a good program and some of our guys over the years have learned a lot, I have noticed that most of our Scouts don't retain anything from the week. Also, a lot of our guys in the past have said they miss having the chance to work on merit badges - doing the Pathfinder Program does not allow time for merit badge work. So, ASMs and I have been talking about doing our own version of the Pathfinder Program just within our Troop while at camp. Scouts could do merit badges in the morning (or afternoon) if they want to, then meet in our campsite for an hour or two every day to work on basic Scout skills toward 1st class. We've been very fortunate this past year in that our PLC has made plans that encompass working on Scout skills so most of our boys are close to finishing the first class requirements within a year anyway. Have any of you done this in your own Troop? If so, do you have any advice, suggestions, outlines, plans for what you did?

So many people on this forum have helped me. I don't want to name anyone specifically because I'm afraid I'd leave someone out. I have learned much from all the postings and debates. Many times I've read a post that is contrary to my way of thinking. These have been especially helpful to me as I broaden my perspective of Scouting and try to assess situations and difficulties from many angles - not just from my own limited experience and sometimes myopic viewpoint. Posts that describe personal experiences (been there, this is what we did) are always helpful, even if sometimes what was done was not "by the book." The statement "feedback is a gift" is used a lot here and I have learned to put on a thicker skin when someone writes something I perceive as scathing and/or questioning my abilities as a SM (hasn't happened very often, but it has happened). I will also admit I have at times been discourteous and will keep Scouter-Terry's #2 item in mind. On a personal level, I have always been grateful for the kind words and encouragement I've received from so many forum members.

This has probably been answered before, but just exactly how do you moderators monitor the forum. Do you log on daily, weekly? Do you actually review the members' posts as they come in? Do you know each and every moment a member logs on? I have no complaints, just curious.

We have a big troop trailer too, loaded with folding tables, camp chairs, patrol boxes, tents, tarps, quonset hut materials, 2-burner cook stoves, dutch ovens and more. We bring the trailer when we're going on a District or Council events since we also haul along the materials to make gateways, and in our area anyway I've noticed it's kind of a bragging item to show off what your troop has when other troops are around. In the past our Troop never went anywhere without the trailer whether we needed everything in it or not. These past couple of years we've started lightening our load. Other than the District and Council events, I don't think we pulled the trailer for anything else last year. The guys planned for backpacking trips or at least lightened the load to bring only what is absolutely necessary and could fit in the small open trailer my husband has. Sure does making camp set up and break down A LOT easier and quicker.

Hey Gonzo - it took a long while for the fine Southern Folk I live around now to get used to my "you guys" Yankee speech. I have just not caught on to the y'all thing yet.

Hi folks. Thanks for the posts. Guess I'm just going through one of those "malaise" periods. Have 'em once in a while and it will pass. I do think it's funny in a way that the Troop I mentioned that had an emergency meeting and is changing their ways, is a troop led by a few "old guard" Scouters that have never been particularly cordial to me - in fact out right told me to my face that women have no business being Scoutmasters. Heh heh. I did get a little bit of self-satisfaction that our little Troop somehow was influencing their very large troop. OK, I know, it's not about me. I re-read my post and I'm embarrassed that it came across as a bit whiny. Sorry! As my husband reminded me, at least folks are coming to take a look at our troop if not, in fact, joining it. That has NEVER happened before. We'll keep plugging away, doing the Scouting thing.

Several months ago we had a visit by a couple of Scouts and parents from another Troop. Seems they were unhappy about how things were run and were looking to make a change. Immediately after their meeting, I was told by one Dad (a good friend from our Cub Days) that his troop found out about this and called an emergency meeting of the leadership. Changes are being made in that troop and he said he felt he should at least try to work things out, so they are staying with the other Troop. I will say I've noticed the changes that Troop is trying to make and it's a good thing (in some ways, the plans they've made for outings mirror our own). But, it did leave an impression with me that his visit to our troop was a mechanism to force change in his. Opened our doors for meetings and outings to several Webelos Dens. One Den Leader in particular told me that they were not invited on any outings with any other troop. They used our outing to satisfy the requirement for AOL and then went to other troops. That same Den Leader, not happy with goings on in the Troop they and a few others joined, has asked about our plans for summer camp. The troop they joined is going out of Council this summer at a much higher cost and her son along with a few others are disappointed in that choice. She, her son, and two other boys want to come with our Troop to summer camp. OK, I said, it's just for a week and I'm not trying to take these boys away from the other troop. I did mention that we were having a parents night in April to which she replied that she feels she is has already upset their Troop by coming to summer camp with us so she doesn't want to miss one of their Troop meetings as well. Should I have told her that we had no room and they've made their choice with the other troop and should live with it? Not my way of doing things. I want ALL the Scouts to have a good time, to get something out of the program, to learn and grow regardless of where they are. Am I just being too altruistic, opening our doors to others just so they can satisfy their desire without any thought to our program? This week I found out that a new troop is being chartered at one of our private Christian Schools. This school has a Cub Scout Pack that our troop has helped for the past few years - supplying Den Chiefs, working their AOL ceremonies and Crossovers, in essence being the Sister Troop to the Pack. We've held recruiting events for the 5th and 6th grades, but without much success. Now they're going to start a Troop while ours is struggling year after year with recruitment and could be on the brink of folding next year if we don't get any new guys? I really do love this Scouting Stuff, as Barry would say, but it is beginning to take its toll.

Went to District Commissioners meeting a few nights ago in the hopes of meeting our Troop's new Unit Commissioner. Sadly he was not there. But, while I was there the District Camporee was discussed. Turns out we are not the only troop not attending. Two others had conflicting schedules and their boys also decided not to change their plans. Our DE was pretty upset by this. District Committee is now asking Troops in other Districts to the camporee in hopes of having enough there to make it worthwhile. Another problem was brought up that the Saturday night of the camporee is also one of our High School's prom night. We currently do not have an activities chair for our District, so I feel badly for the DE trying to pull this off at the last minute and having so many problems. But, maybe it would just have been better to forgo having a Spring Camporee this year.

We had to cancel the trip. My son has the flu which meant I needed to stay home with him. Since my husband was the only other leader available to go, we had to cancel. Very sad that no one would step up to go, but it was at the last minute. What's worse? We invited two Webelos dens for the trip. Nine Webelos between them. Asked them all to show up the Monday before the trip for final planning. None showed up. No phone calls/emails either. Two days before we were to leave, one parent with a Webelos son said they would like to go. Our guys were very disappointed as they had planned the weekend with the Webelos especially in mind. Do we try again for the fall or next spring? I'm not sure our guys will be all that willing to do that.

We have a very small troop so it really is just one patrol. Menu plans and shopping list are finalized Monday night before the weekend campout. The Grubmaster is rotated for each trip. This is usually someone who needs the requirement for rank advancement, but not always. Scouts budget $10 per Scout for food which is also paid on Monday before we go. I always take the time to talk to the parent of the Scout responsible for the shopping making it clear that it is the Scout's responsibility to do the shopping and what he is trying to accomplish: learn to read labels for serving quantities, stay within his budget, etc.

Boy Scout Found! http://www.cnn.com/

Well, here's the decision made by the boys - we're going on the spelunking trip and miss the camporee. All came to a unanimous decision on that one. I think they were afraid that if we rescheduled the cave trip to May that something else may come up and we'd never do the trip at all. Tough decision, but theirs. The did ask since the Camporee is planned as a shooteree if we could just go as a Troop to do some shotgun shooting as a day trip later on in the year. Of course we can do that. Haven't done that for a while so it'll be put on the calendar soon. Regarding concerns about the cave trip only being open to 14 year olds. G2SS does say that: "All caving, other than simple novice activities, should be limited to adults and young people 14 and oldermembers of Venturing crews and older Scouts in troops, and teams. "Simple novice activities" means commercially operated cave excursions and easy caves." I did of course check this out before plans got made for the trip. As we are going to commercial outfitters, this is not going to be a problem taking our 12-13 year old Scouts. It's a good thing too because we only have two Scouts 14 or over right now! Note to ASM: I am not going on the spelunking trip, but we have our 2 ASMs going and at least one other adult. The long drive alone would aggravate my condition, so sadly I must stay behind. I really hate that because as a younger person, I went "real" cave diving in the mountains of Pennsylvania looking for fossils and cool stuff like that. One thing I'm considering. Since the camporee is now planned as a shooteree, thus meaning the Cubs/Webelos can't come (our Spring camporee has always been planned to include both Boys and Cubs), one of our Cubmasters is trying to put together a Cuboree for that weekend. Maybe I could help out with that.

Here's our scenario. Boys made the calendar last September for the year. The spelunking trip, much anticipated, is coming up in April. So far, we have not deviated in any way from their calendar. At roundtable last week the Spring District Camporee was finally announced for the same weekend our Troop is planning to go caving. Usually the spring and fall camporee dates are announced at the fall annual district roundtable, but no one would step up to plan or schedule the one for spring - so this was very last minute. SPL at last Monday's meeting told everyone about the Camporee - a shooteree sponsored by a local gun club. Fun for everyone right? But, it's scheduled for when we've already planned to go on this cave trip that the boys have been looking forward to since they put it on the calendar last September. Most of the boys said why can't we do both? The problem is the adults having to give up more time to do both within just a couple of weeks. Just wondering what you forum folks would do?

Hey TheScout - no worries - we are fully aware of the frugle nature of our Council. Older son reported after his first year working at camp that he actually made 79 cents an hour. It cost us more in gas money to pick him up on Saturdays and return him on Sundays than he made. Money is not why he worked there and not why he went back for three more years. Younger son knows full well that even if he was paid it would be a pittance. It's not why he feels so thrilled to have been chosen to work there. The experience that older son got and younger son will now have an opportunity for is priceless.

Wow TheScout, way to throw a wet blanket on a great moment! Sure our Council camp is probably looking at the best fiscal outcome, but I sure wouldn't dimish my son's happiness by something so negative. Yes, I will miss the lad Eamonn, he certainly does a good job cutting the grass. But, if my older son is any guideline, younger son will gain so much from working at camp this summer and hopefully summers to come. He is so excited about it. For all the same reasons - a summer away from home, a summer with the Scouts, a summer at his favorite camp, and of course becoming part of the "camp staff." Our Council Camp dining hall has a display of tooled leathers for each year all around the hall with the names stamped in of all the staff members through the years. Younger son will have his name on this year's leather. THAT is a COOL thing in our Council. I know that because older son pointed out that while his name is stamped on many leathers, last year's leather has his name with a Fleur-de-lis next to it - indicating he was a Director. He is very proud of that.

1 SM 2 ASMs 5 Committee Members - one Treasurer, one Chair, one Advancement Coordinator, and two that help with Boards of Review 12 Scouts: 2 signed up under Scoutreach that we haven't seen since sign up 1 close to to Eagle and age out 1 15-year old SPL/PL 7 12-14 years old VERY active Scouts 1 new crossover What do the SM/ASMs do specifically? Well, for now I (SM) take care of the training, mentoring and conferences for the guys and our ASMs are in charge of the outdoor activities. Husband is working with our Eagle candidate, and our other ASM monitors the younger Scouts. Obviously, we do not fit in with those troops that have multiple patrols and an abundance of leadership, but I thought it important to post how we with a very small troop are doing things. (This message has been edited by gwd-scouter)

RMcCown: our troop was in the same position a couple of years ago. Always adult run. PORs for the sake of advancement. No real boy leadership or responsibility at all. Further examples? When my younger son joined this troop and was preparing for his first campout with them. He came home saying he didn't need a mess kit. The troop used paper plates, plastic utensils and cups. SM did all the food shopping. Husband and I were soon to find out that our questioning of these and other methods was met with displeasure from the "old guard" in charge of the Troop. Gads, what a mess. Within the year SM was stepping down. No one willing to take his place. Troop Committee asked my husband, but his work schedule would not permit it. So, it by default fell to me - the girl. Upon announcing that I was taking the SM position, all the other ASMs quit and a couple of the older Scouts left for another troop. Oh well, some of the dead weight off our shoulders and time to start turning the ship around. With all honesty I will say the first year was terrible. Like you, I was met with much resistance from the few remaining older Scouts who did not like the idea of having to actually DO something. Looking back I would say that I did not enjoy that first year one bit. It was simply a struggle to stay afloat, but then that was my main objective. Second year was better. New recruits and the handful of 12-13 year old Scouts we had remaining started to learn how a Boy Scout Troop should really operate. Now into our third year, we are still a very small troop but our guys are active, contributing members of THEIR troop and it has been a remarkable transformation. We still have work to do, but no longer taking two steps backward for every step forward. "They never said the job would be easy" - you are so right. It's the difficult tasks that are the most rewarding in the end. Good luck to you and your troop.

DH - Dear Hubby, of course. I am fortunate in that my husband, one of our ASMs, is very happy to assume the role of SM in the field. In fact, it was his idea and a position for which he is very comfortable. It is a relief to know the boys are in good hands on our more adventurous outings with husband and our other ASM along. Both trained, both experienced, both very enthusiastic scouters, and both fully behind "letting the boys do it."

The tradition continues. Younger son just received his employment packet to work at summer camp. He had sent in his application to work as a CIT as he will only be 14. Camp Director called and spoke to him on the phone for a while and told him the date for the staff interviews. Unfortunately, my son told him, he is doing Scouting for Food that day and couldn't make the interviews. Camp Director said that would probably be OK since my son was going to be a CIT and probably only work a couple of weeks (standard for CITs at our camp). Well, imagine his surprise when he opened the packet and saw his contract state that while he will not be paid, he is asked to work the entire summer as a Trading Post Clerk. Oh he called his older brother immediately. Older brother has worked at camp for four years working his way up to Nature Director last year. He will not be at camp this summer since he's working his co-op job for college. Older son told his brother how proud he was of him and how amazing it is to be selected to work the whole summer when he's only 14 - especially since he didn't even go on the interview. Younger son just beemed from older brother's compliment. Bet they're having a good time this weekend together. They are both attending OA Spring Fellowship. Older son is the Lodge VCA, younger son very active with our Chapter and thinking of running for an office next year. I am very proud of my sons.

Thanks folks for the support. I have in fact shared my "disability" with the boys and parents. It is very obvious when I'm having my bad days as I can't stand up quite straight, walk with a limp and usually cannot raise one or both of my arms. We always do the Scout Oath at the beginning of our meetings and the guys certainly get a laugh when Mrs. B, the "drill sergeant" when it comes to doing the Scout Sign properly, can't even raise her own arm! My illness became most clearly known last August on our white water trip. Long drives seem to aggrivate the condition and I was in considerable pain by the time we arrived and finished setting up camp. The whole troop including many parents were in attendance. As we were going over the boat assignments I explained that I was not going to go down the river with them. Puzzled faces for sure as I made no attempt to hide my extreme pleasure at doing white water. But, I explained to them, one of the things we had talked about during safety instruction was how everyone must paddle. How paddling helps keep you in the boat as you go through the rapids. At that stage of the day, my shoulders were barely moveable and my right hand had closed into a fist. Besides being incredibly uncomfortable, I would have been a safety risk on the boat. If I fell out, I could not have helped to get myself back in the boat. Dead weight. Everyone had a great time and I did enjoy standing on the bridge and watching as each of our boats made it down the last most extreme rapids. We've had lots of activities since then and I have faired better in some than in others. I am fortunate to have very understanding boys in my Troop, but I try hard not to let the pain show because I don't want the boys to begin thinking they have to help me do everything - then what kind of SM would I be? As I said, I don't do the high adventure stuff myself for now, but I do go along on the trips and camp if possible. If I can't go on the trip at all, I always see them off when they leave and meet them when they return. John-in-KC - what is a DH? As to my gender - well in the beginning there was a lot of concern about "the girl," but that has passed for the most part, at least among the members and families in our Troop. Still a few fellow Scouters out there are probably waiting to see me fail, but that's their problem. I've done a lot with these guys and plan to continue as much as I can.

Local - our boys also always forget their handbooks. Something that came back a bit a couple of them a few months ago. It seems two of our newer Scouts wanted to know what they had left to do to finish Tenderfoot. Since our troop is very small, I am aware of the where everyone is regarding advancement and knew both these boys needed only to finish their Fitness requirement. I remembered some time back when they went outside to do the first part of the requirement, so I figured it had certainly been more than 30 days. Turns out, neither had their handbooks when they did the requirements the first time so nothing was written in their books. The Scout that had worked with them on the requirements can't find the paper on which he wrote down what they did. He also said that one of the Scouts didn't in fact do the running part - this of course led to the Scout in question saying he most certainly did do the running. So, what to do? No evidence that the requirements were done. In fact, many things were not signed off in their books even though I knew they had done them. It took several weeks, but the boys worked with a couple of the older Scouts and went through item by item in their handbooks as the younger Scouts demonstrated what they knew (I posted a thread about this a while back). It's been my observation that most guys bring their handbooks when they are new Scouts as it is all very exciting. But after a while they stop bringing the book. If it is never really used, why bother? As leaders we can tell them to bring it all we want but if they don't see any evidence of its use, it's just one more thing to remember. Our troop was in a terrible habit of entering things in TroopMaster without having it signed off in the book first. So, a boy could be ready for a SM conference for Tenderfoot and not have a thing signed in his book. Very sad scenario and one which we have since corrected. All of our boys know very clearly now that nothing gets recorded in TroopMaster until it is signed in their handbook. This has resulted in the boys at least remembering to bring their books on campouts so they can get signed off when they cook, build fires, etc. Another thing that our SPL has started doing is during weekly meetings we always have some sort of instruction leading up to the month's activity. He ties it in to some part of the Scout handbook and asks one or two Scouts to read parts out loud. He says, "OK who brought their handbook? Who knows where it talks about making a first aid kit? Oh, good for you Johnny Scout, please tell everyone where to find that in their handbook." About that fitness requirement - well it seems those two boys just had to do it again. To ease their pain a bit, the Scout that lost the record of when they did it the first time did it with them. He felt responsbile. I know, many of you out there will say that's not fair to the two young Scouts and I agree. Then again, the two boys in question have not forgotten their handbooks since.

Our District has had 6 DEs since I've been involved in Scouting (14 years). A couple were good, a couple were terrible and a couple were excellent. While I never fully knew what their job entailed, I certainly could tell the difference between the good and the bad. It always bothered me in the past when our DE didn't immediately return my phone calls or email. As I became more involved at the District level I found out why he couldn't return my calls immediately. I was more often than not many calls down the line from the 50 plus other units that were having a crisis that day. And let's not forget the meetings, meetings, and more meetings that our DEs must attend daily whether trying to recruit volunteers, start new units, helping with plans for district events, smoothing ruffled feathers of some disgruntled scouter. If our District is any example, our DEs always struggle with the additional burden of doing the jobs that are supposed to be done by volunteers - because we can't get enough volunteers. My hat is off to you de4bsa - it's a tough job without a lot of thanks from those you serve.

For nearly a year now, I have been suffering from an as yet undiagnosed form of rheumatism/arthritis. Having said that, I'm not trying to garner any sympathy here but my post is prompted by a serious concern. Because of this condition, which comes and goes very sporadically, I've not been able to attend many of our Troop's outings. I'm OK if it's a car camping type of thing where I know I won't be required to do much of any physical activity if the pains flare up. Or, if we're camping locally where I could actually go home if it becomes crippling. Our two ASMs are wonderful fellows who really have taken charge of all outdoor activities, but neither is comfortable or available to take the SM job. My husband is one of the ASMs and states he cannot become the SM since his work schedule requires him to miss every other Scout meeting. Other ASM simply does not want the responsibility being new to the Troop (maybe next year, huh?). Before we get into a debate on how SMs are chosen, our CO is not involved and our Troop Committee is in yet another transition. So, as it has always been in our Troop, a new SM will be whoever steps up to the job. I really don't want to quit the position as we have all worked so hard these past two years turning this troop around and I wouldn't want to mess with the momentum we've built. And, as my husband tells me often, we wouldn't be where we are today if you didn't have the vision of what this troop should be. But, then again, I worry that I may lose respect of the boys if I am not fully active in the outdoor program. So, my question: Is it OK for the SM to take care more of the indoor part of the program (leadership training, mentoring, conferences, etc.) and leave the outdoor part to the other adults? (This message has been edited by gwd-scouter)

We have only had an annual program planning weekend for the past two years. Something new and the first was a disaster. Our guys had never done it before, had never been given the opportunity, and were all used to the adults planning everything. It took a lot of my input that first time to get them thinking. The next year (last September) the guys did much better. Talked about things they had done the year before that they liked, used the themes from the program features books, and came up with ideas for the next 12 months. So far, we have done everything they put on the calendar. I say put on the calendar rather than planned because they are still very much in the learning stages for making the detailed outing and meeting plans. But, PLC does meet once a month now and works out the details of the next month's outing. They use the program features books to get ideas and then write down each week's activities to lead up to the campout. Recently, the PLC decided that all the Scouts in the Troop should have a turn at running something. So, the SPL/PL assigns duties to the other Scouts for each week such as instructions on first aid (an older Scout) or coming up with the game (a younger Scout). This particular idea is working out very well as the SPL/PL is no longer the guy up front through the whole meeting and each week a different Scout is put in charge of something. The younger guys really like having that responsibility and I've been amazed at how prepared they are when it is their turn. A week before the campout is menu and duty roster planning night, which still is a disorganized mess. I have noticed that I am becoming less involved in the activities planning for meetings, which is a good thing. We adults do set the dates for the campouts at the annual planning weekend - four weeks apart - because of work schedules. The guys are already starting to ask about this year's planning weekend at the end of summer, asking if they could do some of the same outings and ideas about new things they'd like to do next year. Interestingly, the things I'm hearing are moving away from car camping and more toward adventurous backpacking type campouts. I think this stems from the campout we have coming up in the end of summer, which the guys are already excited about. We are camping at a mountain lake which can only be reached by boat or canoe. Yes, guys are already thinking about canoeing merit badge at summer camp.

Our Troop does not have any attendance requirements, at least not any tied to advancement (i.e., must attend XX percent of outings). We used to for years, but I threw them out along with all the other by-laws two years ago. One thing I feel very strongly about is that you cannot motivate people through punishment or coercion (or at least that's not my method). These days: We expect Scouts going on an outing to be present at the Monday meeting just prior to the trip to finalize plans. If a Scout is not going to be there, we expect him to call his PL and explain his reason for the absence. We have not yet had to think of any kind of consequences for repeated absences, as it hasn't been a problem for a couple of years now. For T-1st class, why would a Troop need additional attendance requirements? 2nd and 1st class each have an attendance requirement built in for advancement - going on a certain number of outings with the Troop. If a guy is not going on monthly outings regularly, he will just not advance as quickly as another guy who goes and does everything offered. So what? It doesn't take long for it to become obvious who is just along for the fun and the ride. I have no problem with that, as long as he clearly understands that he WILL work (cook, clean, set up, take down) whenever he shows up for a campout. I do take the time to talk to the Scout and his parents if I see a pattern developing like that. I've only had two guys in the past two years like that and they both eventually dropped out because while they wanted the fun of Boy Scouts, they sure didn't like the work. For Star, Life and Eagle ranks: In our Troop we expect those in a POR to actually DO THE JOB. Obviously, some PORs require more effort and presence than others. This is very clearly explained to anyone wishing a POR and it is then up to them to decide if they can fulfill the parameters of the job. We no longer give out POR titles just so someone can pass of the "serve in a POR..." requirement. We had elections a month ago and one guy was eager to run for SPL. When it was pointed out to him that SPL would take a lot of his time and effort he realized he couldn't do the job since soccer season just started and he would not be available much. Ah, thinking for themselves. The consequence of expecting the guys in a POR to do the job was felt early this year. We had one guy who made Life Rank in 2004. He has been absent since then, showing up once in a while since last summer asking what he needed to do to "make" Eagle. Without going into great detail, this Scout did not recharter with us in February, 4 months short of his 18th birthday and did not earn Eagle. By contrast, we have another Life Scout turning 18 this summer. A couple of years ago he, too, was largely absent. But something different happened to him. He ran for and was elected SPL. When he showed signs of becoming slack in his position we had a talk. No threats, no percentages. Just a chat about what he perceived his responsibility to the Troop to be. He served in that position for about 7 months and only missed one meeting night after our talk. He also started having PLCs (sporadically), something which we hadn't had in years. He is not so active with the Troop now since he's attending dual enrollment classes with High School and college, but he plans to finish his project this Spring and EARN his Eagle. Sorry, it seems I was rambling a bit.