gwd-scouter

Until this year, our Council camp staff always wore the Venturing green shirt with the Boy Scout green shorts, socks, belt, etc. I never knew that was incorrect until reading posts on this forum and then checking out the insignia guide. Interestingly, this year my younger son will be working at camp and when he got his staff packet, it very clearly stated that the activity uniform to be worn during the day is Boy Scout "Class B" - Boy Scout T-shirt, shorts, belt, socks. But for dinner, chapel, flags, campfires and OA ceremonies, the official Venturing uniform is to be worn, including the Venturing shorts and socks. I think it's appropriate that our council camp staff actually wear the correct uniform, but, drat, here I thought we'd get off not having to buy anything new since younger son could wear older son's uniforms from when he was a staffer. Why are those Venturing socks so much more expensive than Boy Scout socks?

BrentAllen, lovely town Dunwoody. My mother lives there and we've visited during the July 4th parade. Very cool thing and it does give that small town feel to a very populated area. My take on the decline of numbers in community organizations is the overwhelming number of single parent families, at least in our town. It is hard for a single parent to work all day and take care of their children, and then have to cart them off to various evening activities. They generally are less financially able to pay for the activities as well. Speaking merely from my Scouting experience, the single parents almost never volunteer to do anything with the Scouts, many times because they have younger children at home and don't have the time. On the other hand, I have always wondered why there seems to be a decline in parents, especially Dads, volunteering for Scouts with their sons. It seems that lots of parents are willing to give their time during Cub Scouts, but once their son reaches Boy Scouts, they're gone. Maybe it's just our Troop, but we have only one father that has stepped up to help out.

Reverent I think is the toughest for me personally. Mostly because my beliefs do not fit well into the predominantly southern baptist area in which I live. Also, equally difficult to explain to the Scouts in our troop as, while many of them are from fairly mainline southern baptist families and go to Christian school, quite a few others are of no particular faith at all, and we have one who self-professes as Wiccan. The one point that I think is most difficult for the guys to really get behind is Trustworthy. Older guys seem to get what it's all about, but the younger guys seem to think it merely means telling the truth. My take on it is that you will do what you say you're going to do. You are the kind of person that others can count on. For Example, tough for me to explain to a Scout whose Dad volunteers to go on a trip and then backs out at the last minute - time and time again. Tough one to explain to Scouts who tells his parent(s), oh Mrs. B. said we should do this and then the parent says, Well, what Mrs. B. doesn't know..... For me, cheerful seems to be the most important, but probably the most difficult to pull off at all times. If one goes through life with a positive attitude it seems that all other things fall into place - at least for me.

Cave trip this weekend. I actually have been feeling very well for two weeks, but husband put his foot down and said if you have any pains at all before we leave - you're not going. Figured the 5 hour car ride would do me in anyway, so I hadn't actually planned to go. Oh well, as it turns out, I woke up this morning in less than perfect shape and was reminded again of my limitations. So, I bid my boys and leaders farewell this morning as they went off on their cave adventure. Oh how I wish I could be there to see these boys and share in their first time experience under ground! I'll have to settle for waiting for their return tomorrow and hear all about it then. Next month is Stone Mountain and Six Flags. Even if I'm unable to ride the coasters (boo hoo), I'll at least be there.

ASM915 - Wow, thanks for the information. If I remember correctly back a LONG time ago as a teenager I went to Laurel Caverns with my science club. Lived in Maryland at the time so not such a long trip as we would have now. I have thought about the Troop taking an extended trip somewhere next summer (other than summer camp) if the boys are interested and if we have enough fundraising and adult support. Currently, we certainly have very interested boys, but sadly not much interest in fundraising and poor participation from other parents. Definately something to throw into the pot when our annual planning weekend comes up in August.

Older son went to what was then called JLT in 2000. Worked as staff for two years after that. Also worked on summer camp staff for three years after doing JLT staff. He highly regarded the JLT program and recommended to others in his troop. Back then, though, only one other Scout in the Troop ever attended and the families had to pay the cost. While his Scoutmaster at the time suggested it to Scouts, it was never really given much effort in promotion. Our Council's JLT/NYLT has always been held the same week as ourCamp Staff training week, although in different locations. This has caused a problem with my younger son as he has been hired to work camp staff this summer AFTER he had been signed up of NYLT. In our case, summer camp program director told him he had no problem with younger son missing staff week because of NYLT. In fact, he was glad to hear he was going. I don't know much about the differences in the curriculum from JLT and NYLT. I have two Scouts going from our troop, my younger son (a month away from 14) and another older Scout (age 15) currently serving as SPL - really, the two oldest most experienced Scouts in our Troop of nine. Our Troop Committee decided that if we thought this training was important for our boys, then the Troop ought to at least pay for half of the cost ($180 this year), especially since we're asking these boys to go for the benefit of their troop.

Speaking from the Troop side of things, I've had my share of parents like this. Notices are sent to every family via email and regular mail about recharter. Fees due, date due, etc. A few weeks ahead of the final due date a reminder is sent that if the money is not paid for reregistration, the Scout will be dropped from the charter. Yep, had my share of Scouts that show up months after the charter and I have to talk to the parents and say that their son is no longer registered with the Troop, but if they pay XX dollars, we'll reregister him. It's harsh, I know. But we had years of a few folks that were just not very good at paying up when they needed to. Or, it was scouts that had poor attendance through the year and parents/Scout never responded to emails about campout fees, etc. Usually, the boy is involved in other stuff, scouting is secondary to everything else, and the boy will drop in from time to time. Interestingly, those same parents will be the ones that suddenly get interested in Scouts if their son continues sporadically through the program but somehow manages to be close to "making" Eagle. Got an email just a few days ago from that same type of parent. Suddenly, after years of nonresponsiveness to my correspondence, she emails me wondering about her older son and what he needs to do to "finish" Eagle. He will be 18 in a little less than 2 months. Hmmm. David.Self posts: "It's just so frustrating. Especially in contrast to the thanks and apprciation I received from the other parents and boys in the den. I feel your pain there. Some of the parents in our troop are very free with their compliments and thanks. Others treat our leaders as babysitters. Our roles as leaders with Scouting sometimes gets very few thanks and appreciation from the parents of the boys we serve. It can be frustrating. But, remember why you're doing what you're doing and don't let those folks get you down. As you've moved into a Troop and this Dad seems as though he's moved his son in as well, it is no longer your job to look after that boy individually as you felt you needed to do as his Den Leader. Let it go, move on, and enjoy Boy Scouting with your son. (This message has been edited by gwd-scouter)

I agree that once a boy signs a Boy Scout application and joins a troop, he is no longer a Cub Scout and cannot earn any more Cub Scout awards. But, in the case I posted earlier in this thread, the Scout in question was the only 5th grader in his Den and shortly after Christmas the Den stopped meeting regularly and was doing nothing to support his efforts to earn the Arrow of Light. He only had a couple of requirements left, finish the Outdoorsman and Readyman pins, then the Arrow of Light requirements to talk with a Scoutmaster and attend a Troop meeting. So, presented with this information by his Cubmaster, what should I have done? Tell the boy to just do nothing for two months until he turns eleven and then he can join our troop? Or, work with him to help him finish his AOL requirements thus continuing his Scouting experience for the couple of months he had until he either finished AOL or turned 11 (he earned AOL one week before he turned 11). Since our Troop was planning to do some first aid skills at our meetings in February, it was a perfect opportunity for our Scouts to help this Scout finish his remaining requirements for Readyman. Since he also had the requirements left of attending a Troop meeting, going on a campout to finish Outdoorsman, doing another outdoor activity with the Troop and talk with a Scoutmaster for AOL, I thought it was perfectly reasonable to help this boy out. I not saying I would want to make a permanent practice of this, nor do I think it a good idea to consider dual enrollment for a boy in both the Pack and Troop. I just considered this an opportunity to help a guy out, keep him interested, and keep him in Scouting which he so obviously wants to do. He completed his AOL requirements in mid-March and one week later he turned in his Boy Scout application. (This message has been edited by gwd-scouter)

Wow, a bit testy eh? True there is no such official term as Webs II, just as the word is Boy Scouts (not BS), helpful abbreviations though.

Our DE has suggested something like this before. Allowing Webs II boys to go to troop meetings for a couple of months before they turn 11. In those cases, these were a couple of boys that signed up on school night and the Pack had only one Webs Den of 4th and 5th graders. Also, in those cases, the Packs were struggling and the Webs Dens were folding so rather than lose the boys outright, he asked if they could go to troop meetings while still registered as Webs and then officially join the troop after they turn 11. We did not receive any of these guys so I don't know how it all turned out. This past few months, a Webs II Scout from a struggling Pack our troop is working with has been coming to our Troop meetings. We have worked with him to finish up his few remaining requirements for AOL. In his case, he was the only 5th grader in a Webs Den that was having problems with consistent meetings and activities. He remained, however, registered with the Pack and did not officially register with our Troop as a Boy Scout until he completed his AOL requirements and, in fact, had turned 11 years old in the process. He joined our Troop back in March, but the troop participated in his AOL and crossover ceremony last night. We held off on his ceremony because his Dad was in training getting ready to be deployed to Afghanistan. Dad was home briefly this past two weeks and is leaving this Thursday.

Though he's not at Virginia Tech, I feel an urgent need to drive up to Clemson today and hug my son. Thoughts and prayers for the families, friends and everyone in Blacksburg.

Older son attended Jambo in 2001. Council cost for the trip was $1500. In addition to that, he was required to purchase four complete uniforms with all the patches, extra socks, T-shirts, shorts, customized fanny pack, troop hat, etc. I can't remember exactly what the extras added up to but I think we paid somewhere in the neighborhood of $2,000 for the whole thing. Quite a lot of money for us at the time, but older son's experience at Jambo was worth it. Our council buys all new equipment for the contingents: tents, stoves, cooking gear, etc. and passes that expense on to the participants. Council then sells all that new equipment at a reduced rate back to anyone interested in buying it for their Troop or for personal use. Younger son is eager to attend JAMBO in 2010. He did not go in 2005 since he knew there was no way we could afford to send him twice.

Great responses folks and pretty much along the lines of how I responded to the WDL asking me questions about their choice in the Troop they joined. I did not disparage any troop in our district when asked pointed questions about them - the WDL had her den visit several other troops and then sought my opinion of them. It was to say the least an uncomfortable position to be put in and, yes, I was a bit put off by being so helpful to these folks and then having them chose another troop over ours. Oh well. I have certainly learned that I must do a better job of explaining to our visitors the methods of Boy Scouting and the oftentimes chaotic functioning of the boy-led troop. Now, as I said, these folks are revisting our troop and going to summer camp with us. There are three Scouts involved, one Dad, one Mom and the Mom/WDL. The Moms have stated they don't necessarily like the way things are run in their troop, but it was their son's decision and they'll stick by it. Don't know Dad's feelings. I certainly hope their sons get a great experience in their troop and I'll do nothing to paint a negative picture of that choice.

Agreeing with what others have said, you can be a Committee person for both a Cub Pack and a Scout Troop. Training is important especially to help you see the differences in your role as a Committee member for two different programs. Be careful about wearing too many hats though: I was at one time and for several years a Cubmaster, Troop Advancement Chair, and District Training Chair (along with Cub Resident Camp Director and Day Camp helper). Whew, burnout for sure!

Did you guys notice the adds on this page changed to stories about Big Foot and the Loch Ness Monster? Ever been to the Lodge Outlet Store? They have huge dutch ovens - may have to chop Big Foot up first before cooking, though. I've heard it's a little greasy but tastes like chicken.

Yes, temporary patches may be worn on the back of the merit badge sash.

Thought I'd get back to everyone and let you know what the Scouts decided. Since this is their first cave trip, we're going to Lost Sea then, assuming they have a good time, they want to put another more ambitious trip on the calendar for next year. The guys have looked forward to this trip since they put it on the calendar last fall - we're leaving next weekend for Tennessee.

Since the BSA recognizes as a square knot some of the different religeous awards that can be done by scouts, I've seen the presentations made in many different venues. Some Packs/Troops give out the knots in a Pack meeting or Court of Honor, some do not prefering for the boy to receive the award during their own church recognition and not even mentioning it within the Pack/Troop. Our district honors those Scouts and adults that have earned the emblem during the past year at our District Awards Banquet. How are these emblems recognized in your Packs/Troops/District. And, on a probably more divisive note, should these emblems that currently are not available to all religeons or beliefs even be celebrated during Pack meetings or Courts of Honor? (This message has been edited by gwd-scouter)

Being a female, I suppose most people expect me to be a bit more circumspect in things I say, but I'm afraid I'm a product of my parent's very stoic and formadibly honest upbringing. Most people (especially here in the South) are a bit put off by my blunt manner. That being said, one of the greatest compliments I've ever received was from one of my best friends and most ardent oponents in almost every area of debate - "at least with Karen, she's honest. You may not like what she says, but at least she gives you the opportunity and has the forbearance to hear your side. Most of all with Karen, what you see is what you get." My husband says he'd like that put on my tombstone.

If this is what actually happened "More recently, one of my Assistant Scoutmasters, an Eagle Scout who never participates in our winter camping or canoe trips, came up with the idea of having his son's Patrol pack a bagged lunch in empty backpacks and take a day hike to satisfy the Camping Merit Badge optional backpacking requirement" then that didn't satisfy the camping merit badge requirement at all since it says that the backpacking must be done while on a campout. Hmmm, very interesting. Back to the topic: I've read Kudo's posts and jblake's post and while I agree with some of what they've said and have learned quite a bit of perspective on how I'm trying to guide our Troop, I have to say that I think we all in the trenches do what we can to adhere to the current BSA methods of scouting and try to deliver it the best way we can given our own local constraints. For instance, our troop only has nine active guys so we have one patrol and must make accommodations to fit into the model given what we're working with. Also, since we've essentially started over in our troop teaching the boy-led concept, we still have a bit more adult-led going on than some on this forum would feel appropriate. We certainly do not fit into some of the more ardent adherents of various interpretations of the Boy Scout Program and I concede that. But, we're doing what we can to deliver the Scouting Progam the best way we can.

Local - real women have no problem revealing their age! I will be turning 49 in May.

Fgoodwin: Actually left Potomac (parents' house) and moved to my own place in Germantown, MD in 1978. I remember Montgomery Village well. Left Maryland and headed to South Carolina in 1988. While in Maryland, family attended St. Raphael Catholic Church.

I have seen some Scouters in my district with 3-4 rows of knots and admit it does look a bit overdone. But, if they earned them and they want to display them, that's their prerogative. I have six knots and wear them all: Den Leader, Webelos Den Leader, and Cubmaster Training Awards, District Award of Merit, Silver Beaver, and most recently received Scoutmaster Training Award.

Hi David, I am originally from Potomac, MD. Welcome to the forum.

Kahits, your troop is so much like mine. We have 11 on our roster, but only 9 I consider to be active. Of the 2 that are not active, one is almost 18 and has only his project to finish for Eagle. He does pop in to meetings about every other week to stay in touch and has attended a couple of campouts this past year. Another inactive is 13, great kid but heavily involved in sports throughout the year. We may see him again this summer. Of the nine active Scouts, five are present 100% of the time. In this past year, they have attended every campout and can be counted on to come to every meeting. They are the heart of our troop. The other four I would consider active as well, but probably only 80% of the time. Still fantastic. Because of our small number, we only have one patrol - the Kung Foo Falcons! Sure, they made a flag and have a cheer. The patrol leader is called the SPL because the boys like the sound of that better. The APL is called the ASPL for the same reason. Of course, with only one patrol we don't need SPL/ASPL, but if they like the sound of the title better, that's fine. We have two guys serving as Den Chiefs to two different packs that meet on the same night as our Troop, so they are not present at every meeting. One of those Den Chiefs also helps out as Instructor to our newer Scouts. We have one guy serving as Quartermaster, another as Scribe. Even though we only have one patrol, the boys do call their monthly planning meeting the PLC even though it only is made up of the SPL, ASPL, and the Den Chief/Instructor. About two and a half years ago I stepped up to the SM position and began the long hard journey of changing the troop around from adult led. It has been a struggle, but what we have now are active, enthusiastic boys that are planning their meetings and outings and doing what they want to do. Yes, like you, we are a very small troop. But hand them the reins and train your boys to function as one great patrol. Hopefully, in time, those boys you have now will be the terrific leaders you'll need when your troop does grow large enough to have more than one patrol.