gwd-scouter

John-in-KC - yikes! I posted a thread a while back about our council's camp staff. They wear (or wore I should say - changed this year) Venturing shirt with council strip and Crew #1 numeral, world crest, and whatever rank patch (optional) and OA flap (optional) they have if registered with a Boy Scout troop. OK so far, but they also wore Boy Scout shorts, socks and belt. I never thought anything of it until becoming a member of this forum and learning more about Venturing. I came to expect the camp staff to actually be in correct uniforms, but I wasn't going to be the gal to tell them they were wearing the uniform improperly. I have an entire 5-drawer chest full of Boy Scout shorts, socks, T-shirts, and other Scout clothing since older son went to JAMBO in 2001 and has worked staff at council camp for four years. Younger son is working his first time this year and I was figuring I wouldn't have to buy him anything at all. Guess what? This year our camp has decided to wear the full venturing uniform and I've got to buy a whole bunch of venturing shorts and socks for him! Ah, just more stuff to add to the donation box once our family retires from Scouting some day. Edit to add: PS - what did you mean by "glad handing" to the kids? (This message has been edited by gwd-scouter)(This message has been edited by gwd-scouter)

dropped son off this morning for the first week of summer camp. He said as he got out of the car "see ya, Mom, gotta go check in. I don't even think he heard me say "OK, son, I'll wait for you here." Waited around in the check in building "camp office" talking to other staffers I've known for years, only to look over my should and see that my son has come back to the parking lot, picked up his footlocker, and made is way up the trail to his quarters. Hmmm. Obviously, Mom as transportation to camp was done and no need for him to look back. Hah, cornered him as he made his way to the trading post where he'll be working. Met his boss and gave my son a hug in front of his coworkers as they chanted "oh, give him a kiss Mom, give him a kiss....we let OUR Moms do it." Have a great summer, son!

OK. Here's a situation that came up recently. Scoutmasters in our District were given a listing of Webelos that did not join boy Scout troops this spring and encouraged to call their parents and invite them to come visit their troop. Most are 10-11 years old and just completed 5th grade. A couple of the boys on the list are 12 years old. At roundable one particular Scout's name came up. He is 12 years old and will be going into the 4th grade. His Cubmaster was at roundtable and mentioned the boy in particular from the list as being a Wolf just going into Bears in the Fall. Yes, because he's going into 4th grade he should be going into Webelos, but somewhere along the line he has been progressing since he started the Pack as a Tiger - probably got held back during that time and is continuing in Cubs according to his grade rather than his age. I really don't know the whole situation there. I was told that this particular boy has some emotional as well as developmental problems which has kept him behind in his academic progress (thus, just going into 4th grade at age 12). What do you do with this boy?

Brent, I completely agree which was one reason for my post. Yep, our guys have done very well learning to plan their year and that itself has been a big boost for our troop morale. But, as mentioned in my post, their plans have taken them away from typical patrol type campouts and thus have not offered them many opportunities for patrol cooking. In our troop's case, we are very small and only have one patrol, but they do still operate as a patrol. Our annual planning weekend is coming up in August and I will certainly encourage (nudge) them if they need it to plan a well-rounded year to include campouts with learning/teaching/advancement skill opportunities for our T-1st class Scouts. They did a fairly good job this past year incorporating some skills instruction during meetings leading up to an outing (cold weather, first aid, backpacking, water safety, etc.). We are only in our 3rd year of changing our troop around and the guys have come a long way. Still a lot of work to do though.

Being the SM of a small struggling troop much like the one you describe in your area, I would welcome the assitance.

Over the past several weeks, I've been holding SM Conferences for advancement in rank: one Star, one Tenderfoot, two 2nd Class. I enjoy doing the SM Conferences and learn a lot about the boys. But, it was after this round that I realized I should take the time to do conferences once in a while when not required for rank - just to check in with the guys. I learned during the conferences just how much these guys really do know about Scouting. What they like. What they don't like. What they'd like to do differently. These are very bright boys with a lot of great ideas. What I've seen as being lazy on the part of our Scouts, turns out to be either lack of knowledge or just plain disinterest. Don't our boys learn well and early that if they complain and whine about something long enough, someone else will pitch in and do it for them (ah, usually an adult or older Scout that just wants to get going). The questions I got from the boys during the conferences will, hopefully, make me a better Scoutmaster and trainer for the older Scouts. Examples from the conferences: Why do we have to set up the quonset hut, couldn't we just string a tarp up in the trees? Wouldn't it be faster if everyone cleaned his own dishes? Why do we have to learn knots when we never use them? What's the point in using a compass, can't we just use a GPS? It sure would be better if the guys doing the cooking have to do the cleanup. Then they wouldn't make such a mess for someone else. Why do we wait until Sunday to start putting things away. Couldn't we save time and do some of it on Saturday night? I was the patrol cook on Saturday to get my 1st class requirement and was just supposed to supervise. I kept yelling at the guys to work, but wound up doing it all myself. (Not entirely true, but the yelling part is accurate.) This comment in particular prompted a very nice and long discussion with the Scout on leadership methods. The most delightful part of these conferences was the transformation of a very nervous Scout, unsure of what to say, to free-flowing conversation about himself, his role in the Troop, what he has learned, and his goals. Got a couple of emails from the parents of these Scouts saying that the boys were telling them all about their conferences, reading their handbooks out loud in the car on the ride home, and talking about what they were going to do for their next rank. One boy, the boy that left at mid-week from summer camp last summer, the boy that would barely put a toe in the water, the boy that was nervous about doing anything new, was commenting on how he wanted to earn Star by next year. So, I figure, if the SM Conferences for rank can inspire these boys, I should probably do them throughout the year. I give our boys encouragement during meetings and campouts all the time, but the SM Conference seems to offer more: just a chance to get them talking without interruption, a chance for them to feel they are being heard, give them encouragement one-on-one, a little boost throughout the year. I have read in these and other forums about doing SM conferences at times other than for rank, but have just not implemented them yet. Now, I think I will. Just another turn in the endless learn curve that is being a Scoutmaster.

Remembering a campout we had a last weekend prompted me to go back and read lisabob's post again. This was a "back to basics" campout at our local state park and made me realize that our guys have done few activities this year that allowed them to learn and practice their skills. In fact, the boys changed the theme of this campout specifically because many of them needed a few sign-offs for rank. You see, I gave all the boys a challenge at the beginning of the year to see if they could complete the requirements before we left for summer camp for whatever rank they were working on. I really didn't see it happening because the outings they had planned for the Spring did not fit well into advancement. The challenge was meant to get them thinking, maybe even open their handbooks and at least look at the requirements. On this particular trip four of the Scouts had been in the troop for only one year and one was a recent crossover. The PL had a band concert and didn't arrive until late Friday night. So, it took the younger guys two hours to set up camp. Not like that hadn't done it before, but it sure seemed like it. PL had his hands full that weekend with what seemed like a bunch of brand new Boy Scouts. Breakfast was french toast and sausage and took three hours from set up to clean up. I really just couldn't figure out why until I read Lisabob's post. Our Scouts did a great job of planning their year last August. Lots of fun, adventure, and new activities. But, with the exception of the fall camporee and our winter campout in December, none of the outings included patrol cooking or cleaning, camp set up, fire building (we have a burn ban in South Carolina almost year round so we don't do much fire building anyway). We had skiing (day trip), spelunking (slept in the cave), canoeing (part of our annual planning weekend, slept in a cabin at the lake, used the kitchen for cooking), whitewater (used the outfitter's wall tents, but did do some cooking), and backpacking/hiking trips (personal tents, backpack stoves). After the back to basics campout, several of the Scouts mentioned that they preferred the backpack type campouts - it's just too much trouble and takes too long to set up a car camp. I must say I agree with them. It is far less expensive too for our Troop just just bring along personal gear instead of hauling the huge heavy trailer. The boys are already starting to talk about plans for next year and our annual planning weekend at the lake coming up in August. I figure we will still have a couple of car camping trips a year, at least for the spring and fall camporees. For those outings, I will make suggestions as I've done before on cooking methods for them to learn. I make it a challenge. For instance, last winter I mentioned the adults were cooking cinnamon rolls for breakfast in a dutch oven. Would they like to learn how to do that? Now, that's one of their favorites. Whew long post, sorry. Just one last thing. Others have mentioned the "deer in headlights" look the boys get when asked to plan something. At our first planning meeting, that's just what I saw and it took a lot of adult intervention to get the boys thinking. Last year, a little less. This year, I think they're close to having it figured out. Maybe will still need a nudge here and there to remember to include skills training for advancement opportunities, but it is wonderful to see their enthusiasm these days.

Just recently got a mailing from our Council. Addressed to Scoutmasters, it contained a list of all the Webelos Scouts in our District that completed the fifth grade but did not join a Boy Scout Troop. We, the Scoutmasters, are encouraged to call these families and invite the boys to join our Troop. This, the letter explains, is in an effort to boost our crossover numbers. I like the idea, but am not sure about making a bunch of cold calls to people, especially if those same families may receive phone calls from many Scoutmasters. I am thinking of first sending them a letter, introducing myself and our Troop and including a calendar of our activities and contact information. Then mentioning that I would call on them in a week or so. Any advice?

Uniforming in our troop has come a long way. For years we were a waist up uniform troop. Jeans, athletic shorts, bathing suits(!) were all acceptable alternatives to Scout pants. Very few leaders wore the complete uniform. The uniform method was not the only method in peril or dropped completely. The troop was a mess. Enter the new SM (me). Admittedly, I came on a bit strong in the beginning and turned off a lot of adults and scouts. But, I learned to take it slow and after working with the older Scouts to turn things around, changes began and progress has been made these past couple of years in all areas, but I'll focus on the uniforming here. By wearing the uniform myself and encouraging the other adults to do the same, we set the expectation of proper uniforming for the boys. I show up for SM Conference in my uniform and make no secret to the Scouts that I expect them to do the same. Sure, I've had some guys show up with the "I forgot" excuse, but not often and, so far, not twice. The most difficult change was with the older Scouts - the "legacy" Scouts I like to call them that never wore anything but the shirt for years. All but one of those Scouts are now over 18, three of them earned Eagle, and those three all wore the full uniform in the end and became the role models for the younger boys joining our Troop. Couple of weekends ago we had a campout. PL mentioned to the Scouts that we were going to do flag ceremonies while there and they should all have their uniforms. Saturday morning the boys lined up to raise the flag. Surprise! Uniform inspection - the first ever in our Troop. Not meant to be punative, but as a reminder of how to wear the uniform correctly. Our newest Scout was the only boy in correct uniform, which really isn't a surprise since I've notice the new guys are usually pretty gung ho about it and lose interest only when they see the older guys being lax about theirs. The following Monday I did SM Conferences for three of our Scouts for 2nd Class Rank. Those three guys were not in correct uniform at the campout. But, all three showed up for their SM Conferences with the whole deal - including neckerchief! While it is true that a uniform is not required to be a Boy Scout and I cannot require it as a part of advancement, my post is meant to show that proper uniforming can be done but changing a troop's culture and habits about the uniform or any other method will take a lot of time.

Guess I better read my Scoutmaster handbook again, because I don't remember anything about the patrols having each member wash his own dishes plus a pot or two to speed up the cleaning process. I'm assuming this is referring to car camping type trips and not backpacking trips. It's interesting though, that one of our Scouts on our recent campout asked about that very thing? He thought it would make cleanup go faster if everyone did it, not just the guys that were on the duty roster. Your thoughts? Does anyone here have patrols in which everyone cleans his own dishes after meals?

I was up at our council camp this weekend picking up younger son from staff weekend. While there, the camp range director approached me with a question. I had been the Council Cub/Webelos Resident Camp Director for many years and she thought I could help with a concern she had. Seems this year's resident camp has a cowboy theme. The organizers are planning to have a demonstration of Cowboys on horseback doing trick shooting at targets placed around the meadow (the large field in the middle of camp where we hold assemblies and flag ceremonies). The Cubs will not be doing any shooting themselves at this time, merely observing the demonstration. The Cubs will be doing their BB and archery activities up in the designated range area with all the safety precautions in place. I don't have the shooting sports or G2SS in front of me right now, and it's been several years since I was involved at the Cub level, but aren't they prohibited from activities that involve firearms (other than BB guns). She feels that the whole activity is really not a good idea, especially since apparently the cubs and parents will just be standing around the meadow watching the event. There is no way to rope off the meadow and it is certainly not an approved range area. The cowboys will be firing period style pistols and rifles and using wax bullets. Does anyone know of any specific prohibition against this type of activity, or are she and I just responding to a gut feeling that this is just plain wrong somehow?

Scoutldr. I had a similar experience with two Scouts about a year ago. Neither Scout ever had a Court of Honor. It's as if they dropped off the planet after their EBOR. Both are in town attending college/working, so I know they are still local. I called, I sent emails, but never got a response about setting up a ECOH. So, after waiting for over six months without a word from them, I mailed their Eagle award kit. I did include a nice letter explaining that I didn't feel it was right for me to hold on to their award and if they find a time when they'd like to have a formal presentation, we'd work it out. They're gone, they reached the "finish line" and got their prize. Oh well, I certainly feel sorry for the families and others that helped these boys and were denied the opportunity to share in the moment.

Local - my sons are 20 and 14. There were a few times back in my Cub Scouting days when younger son came along on a Pack campout before he was old enough to actually join as a Tiger. But, when older son got to the Troop, younger son never joined in on any outings. Since others have mentioned camporees - our District very strictly prohibits younger siblings attending, unless the camporee has been planned to include the Cub Scouts with their own camping area and activities.

Agreeing with the previous posts in limiting that type of outing to one a year. We never have parents want to join us on an outing, even when we make it clear that we NEED another adult. All of trips in the past have involved camping in tents until this past year. In January the troop went skiing for the first time. Oh boy, parents and siblings came out for that one! Not a problem since it was a day trip. So, in essence it turned into a family trip rather than a Troop trip.

I've watched varying degrees of disinterest in our Scouts over the years. Seems the new guys are mostly all gung ho about Scouting. The older they get, the more they display an attitude of rather being somewhere else. In our troop now, we have eight active guys. We have a 17 year old, almost Eagle, serving as a Den Chief so we don't see him at meetings, but he does attend campouts about half the time. He lost interest a few years ago when he became a Life Scout, but a year and a half ago decided to run for SPL, served in that position for a year, and got recharged about Scouting. Our 15 year old SPL dropped out of Scouts a couple of years ago from another troop and rejoined in our troop just last year. He is on fire and is doing a great job as our SPL. He actually thinks about Scouts between Monday's - truthfully the only one in our Troop that does, I think. Then we have a 14 year old Star Scout (my son) about to have his BOR for Life, also served as a Den Chief this past year, who loves everything about Scouting, but really doesn't think about it Monday to Monday. Next, 14 year old that just joined our Troop last summer. Having his BOR for 2nd class next week and is almost finished with 1st class requirements - this is the Scout you all know that actually has read his Scout handbook and knows the requirements he's done and what he needs to do next. You know the one, shows up at a meeting or campout, handbook in hand, and says "can I get signed off on this, I just did it on the last campout." We have three Scouts that joined our Troop last May after crossing over from Webelos. Two went to summer camp with us last year, one did not. The Scout that did not go to summer camp is present at every meeting and goes on every campout. Of the two that went to summer camp with us: one is a drop in Scout and the type that always has an excuse about why he doesn't have his handbook, uniform, didn't show up, etc. etc.; the other I just can't quite figure out yet. He is the most lazy kid I've met and just when I think I KNOW he wouldn't sign up for the hiking trip, he shows up! Then we have our newest Scout that just joined in March. Already poking his handbook in someone's face asking, didn't I just do that? Can I get signed off. Of course, these are the Scouts that remain with our Troop right now. We've been larger and smaller - up to 16 Scouts at one point, as few as five at another. The guys that just didn't want to be there, the guys that would rather spend a weekend playing video games than giving an outdoor experience a try, the guys whose parents basically forced them to do Scouting - they come and go.

Well said, jblake. My boys, too, have custom slides they made while they were still in Cubs and wear them once in a while. richwebelosmon: why would your entire pack have to have identical customized slides? As others have said, this a great project to do within den meetings regardless of rank. If a particular den is not interested in making custom slides, so what? Your pack probably has custom T-shirts which would certainly make all the boys stand out as one unit more than identical neckerchief slides would. The Dens could make this a project toward your end of the year pack meeting when all the boys are promoted up to their next year. The Wolf Den could make slides that will reflect either what they did as a Wolf or what they look forward to as a Bear. Then the slide could be presented at your Pack's graduation Pack meeting. Seems to me that would have a lot more meaning to the boys than something generic that's handed out to everyone. Unless you really want to do this yourself for all the boys in your pack, save your energy.

diannasav, Your post indicates you have a very new troop. I can relate. While ours has been around for a while, it was run by the adults for years. A couple of years ago I stepped into the SM role with the intent of turning our troop around to a boy-led, patrol method troop. Sadly, we have also been a very small troop and really only have one patrol. Still, we use the patrol method and have slowly over the years turned the leadership over to the boys. Your post doesn't really give much detail on what is going on with your troop. What is your position in the troop? Stating that the adult leadership wants to turn it all over to the boys and then waits for the boys to do something is a concern. The boys will not learn what it is they are supposed to do without training. In a new troop that training comes from the Scoutmaster. He must train the youth leaders and then monitor and mentor those youth leaders as they train the younger Scouts. Jblake make some interesting and valid points in his post about how the patrol method should work, but from reading your post your troop is not even close to what he proposes. Starting a new troop takes enormous amounts of time from the adult leaders in teaching and training the Scouts to become leaders of their troop. They can't just be told "plan what you want to do and then do it" without guidelines and structure. It actually takes a couple of years of mentoring from the adults (maybe more than a couple), before you get a group of boys that can effectively conduct a PLC and run their troop. In the meantime, the adults must also be trained to learn the methods of Scouting and how to apply them to your Troop. With all due respect to jblake, at your point in your troop's organization I would never suggest, "The discussion on the forum consistantly brings up the subject of adults "helping" too much. I seldom dress down an adult in front of the boys. Instead I go to the PL/APL/SPL or whomever and say, "There's an adult taking away your leadership opportunity." and then leave it up to the boy to correct the problem." I don't know many teenaged boys that would feel comfortable with that kind of responsibility - not even if they feel full ownership of their troop. My personal feeling is that it is the SM responsibility to deal with the other adults.

Such a wonderful moment. Older son drove down from college this afternoon to pick up younger son and off they went for Southern Region AO Fellowship (Dixie) in Savannah, GA. Older son is our lodge VC of Administration this year, so is responsible for our council contingent. Younger son is attending his first Dixie. As they went out the door, older son was giving some advice about what happens at Dixie to younger son. The tradition is passed on.

I guess we don't have an adult line, since the only adults that go on campouts with our troop are me, my ASM husband, and our other ASM. Those two ASMs were a bit difficult at first to turn around to my efforts toward getting our troop boy-led a couple of years ago. Both have been to training and have experienced my "personal conferences," (i.e., let the boys do it), and have since discovered how much more pleasure they have on a campout now that they've "caught the vision." We have on occasion had a few parents along when we've done the more "fun" type of outings - skiing comes to mind, we had a bunch of parents come along for that - but that trip didn't involve camping. Backpacking? Forget about it? Sleeping on the ground - even car camping with a full trailer of all the comforts of home (almost)? Forget about it. I marvel at the posts on this forum about parents that interfere with the troop. I can't even get anyone right now to take over for our treasurer!

Our NYLT is held the same week as staff week. Always has been I think. Younger son had already signed up for NYLT and paid his deposit when he found out he was selected to work staff this summer at camp. Program Director for summer camp is understandably disappointed that younger son will not be at staff week. I don't know how often this conflict comes up, but maybe if it happens more often, Council will try to change when NYLT is offered.

scoutingagain, you're right. I hadn't considered the payment for NYLT he is attending and then, of course, the uniforms we had to buy for him to work at camp. Yep, paying to be a CIT. His first staff weekend is coming up and I think he is more nervous than excited right now.

Regarding how parents are afraid to let their children loose to play unattended: our local paper ran an editorial today in Sunday's paper - "When it comes to your child, an assumption is the wrong choice." The story is about a few days ago when a 7 year old went outside from his house and into the woods behind his house in search of his dog. Mom, missing him for barely 15 minutes and when he did not respond to her calls, called on her family, neighbors and law enforcement to look for her son. You see, she is a victim's aid professional and has seen first hand what can happen to children when they are victimized. The newspaper applauded her reaction to her son being missing for 15 minutes, stating "it's a sad commentary on our society when you cannot be 100 percent sure that your little boy isn't just a few yards away from the front door and quite safe." --which, in fact, he was - they found him within a half and hour from her first call to police. Goes on to say, "most of the time, that would be a correct assumption, but the reality in such an assumption could be the difference between a happy ending, such as (7 year old's name) and yet another sad tale of a child being kidnapped or assaulted, or worse. Paper then states, "this isn't an attempt to scare you, it's an attempt to force you to look at the reality of today's world." Is this really our world today? If so, I guess it's responsible journalism. If not, tabloid press at it's best.

Hey Pack. Pisgah? We haven't been there this year, but we were there last year. Our Troop generally goes there about every other year. Beautiful place. My older son's very first Boy Scout trip was to Pisgah in February. Icecicles hanging from the tree branches. Brrrr. He loved it. I don't know why, but for some reason we always seem to go there in the winter.

No, can't say I'm a redneck yet. Moved here from Wash, DC area just a mere 18 years ago. In the eyes of southerners, I'm still a Yankee and the worst kind of Yankee (I came here to stay, not just visit). :-) OneHour, I read the postings even though sometimes they are harsh. Yes, I've had my share of times when I felt put down for simply asking a question, but more times I've found the discussions in these forums to be helpful or to at least help me think about things in a different way. Hey Pack, oh yeah I'm waiting for those tired dirty puppies to come home. Husband called this morning as they were leaving. Everyone had a great time, best trip ever the boys said, and they want to do it again for sure - but more adventurous - less commercial and more toward climbing and rapelling. And, must admit already hooked on chocolate (what girl isn't?) and peach ice-cream yumm!

It pains me to admit I'm a forum junkie. Is there a 12 step program for me? I come to this realization because I'm home alone this weekend as husband and son are off with the troop on their cave trip. That means I have nothing much to do around here: except laundry, cleaning the bathrooms, washing the floors, dusting, vacuuming, cutting the grass, emptying the dishwasher, washing the dog.... Opened up the forums this morning and only two new posts since yesterday. A wave of disappointment washed over me. My anticipation of reading new topics shattered. Grrr, guess I'll have to get to that housework after all.