gwd-scouter

In another thread, there is discussion about a new Eagle Scout not being mentioned at a Troop COH. A couple of posts in that thread reminded me of how hard it is at times to be a SM, how we make mistakes, and how our actions are sometimes misunderstood. We recently had elections for SPL. Five guys were running: the current SPL, three 1st class Scouts (one age 14, two age 13), and my son (age 14, just turned Life). On the night of elections, the current SPL decided not to run. After the elections I was surprised to find out that one of those 1st class guys (and, he has JUST made first class) won. My son was greatly disappointed. He had been a Den Chief, Troop Guide, ASPL, been to NYLT and worked on staff at summer camp this past summer. I was disappointed for him too, as his mother and as SM since I felt he really had the most qualifications. But, it wasn't my election. After the elections I got a very unpleasant ear-full from Mom of one of the other 1st class guys running. On and on about how it wasn't fair, on and on about how he heard he wasn't even considered by the other Scouts because he hadn't been on any outings since summer camp, on and on about how that wasn't his fault because of family issues that she told me about and I should have made clear to the other guys that his absence was not his fault, more on and on about how unfair this all was to her son. Yeah, I talked to her, calmed her down, and all of that, but during her tirade I was getting downright angry. HER son felt slighted? She thought it was unfair? How about MY son? The guy who has been in the Troop for almost four years. The guy that never missed an outing or meeting. The guy that went to Council training? Rant over. I feel better.

Yes, indeed, the youth run COHs make me smile, sometimes our audience laughs out loud. For the past two years, all of our COHs are run by the Scouts. Whether or not anyone needs the merit badge requirement, a Scout is selected (by the PLC) to prepare a script for the COH. Then, hopefully, they have a practice to make sure everyone knows his part. This does not always happen and makes for some funny moments. At our most recent COH, my son was in charge of preparing the ceremony. Pulled some things off the Internet and put together a nice ceremony involving participation from all the Scouts. As SM, I was to stand unseen and recite lines that then prompted the Scouts to recite the Scout Oath, pausing in sections to light candles. Unfortunately, my son got them to only practice once at the last minute before the start of the COH and, yes, they messed up. The presentation of rank awards is done by the Scouts. SPL presents the first to the highest rank earned, then that Scout presents to the next rank, and so on. The Troop Guide usually presents any Tenderfoot ranks, Totin or Fireman awards. I've always been asked to present any merit badges earned as the last part of the COH and then give a SM minute. Our most recent COH was our last of the year and the one when our DE comes and does the Friends of Scouting presentation. The first thing he said before his pitch was that he always enjoyed coming to our Troop's COHs because our ceremonies were always different, got all the Scouts involved, and made him smile. The parents all seem to like them, too. After a COH which doesn't go perfectly, I wait for the guys to ask me to take over the COHs because they are embarrassed when they mess up or it's too hard to plan themselves. Hasn't happened yet. Sure, I overhear them say afterwards that they need to plan better and practice for the next time, but that doesn't always happen. We've worked hard to get our guys to take ownership of their Troop. I like to think that by making mistakes and seeing that the adults are not going to come charging in to take control, our Scouts really believe it's their Troop and have pride in their accomplishments.

Based only on my older son's experience, I would say that the boys you are talking about may be too young to enjoy National Jamboree. He was 14 when he went in 2001 and on return told me stories about some younger guys in his contingent that were miserable. Homesickness was a major issue especially for those that hadn't been away from home much. The Scouts making up the Jamboree Troop will be put into patrols of eight and will have to set up their patrol campsite, do their own cooking and cleaning, and really take care of themselves and each other. For young Scouts, especially those that may have just turned 1st class and haven't had much experience being led by other Scouts or taking care of themselves without adults telling them what to do, this can be hard. Add to that the miserably hot weather and the long walking distances between events and activities, the young guys just may not be prepared for that. In our Council, the local contingents are made up of 32 Scouts (4 patrols), one SM, and two ASMs. The Scouts came from all the Troops in two Districts so the patrols are made up of Scouts that don't necessarily know each other. From older son's descriptions of his 2001 Jamboree experience, the young Scouts and those from Troops that were more adult-led had a harder time than those used to following leadership from Scouts like themselves. Almost all of the Scouts in his Jambo troop and all of those that were given leadership responsibilities (SPL, PL, etc.) were from our District's (then) mega-troop as well as the SM and one of the ASMs. That troop had a culture of bullying new guys and younger Scouts. Even though older son was 14, he got his share of bullying. Our younger son was eligible to go to the last Jambo - he was 12 and 1st class. Since he will be 17 in 2010 and we could only afford to send him to one Jamboree, we/he decided to wait. After talking with older his brother he decided he'd probably have much more fun as an older Scout attending Jamboree. As far as leaders for the Troops/contingents, in our Council the SM and ASMs are current SMs and ASMs with several years' experience running a Troop. I think it would be unusual for a newly crossed-over Cub Leaders to head up a Jamboree Troop, but your Council may differ. I don't know if any fundraising was done for past Jamborees by our Council, but I know that the Troop comprised of Scouts from our district did not do any fundraising. I wouldn't count on the Troop your Scouts join to do any fundraising for Jamboree either, since most likely some or most of the Scouts won't be going and would rather focus on fundraising for something that benefits everyone. Something else to keep in mind, during the year leading up to the Jamboree your contingent probably will have several shake down campouts. These often times will conflict with your Troop's schedule and the boys will not have a choice - they must go to the Jamboree shake downs. Even if they do not conflict with your Troop campouts, the Scouts/families may decide that they don't want to go camping with the Troop AND with the Jambo Troop in the same month and attendance at Troop functions will drop. At least, this is what I've seen with younger Scouts, not as much with older Scouts. In the end, it will be up to the Scout and his parents to decide if he is ready to go to Jamboree 2010.

We've had a Sunday service, Scout's Own if you like, on our campouts for as long as I can remember. Varying degrees of success. Several years ago, our Scoutmaster was an Evangelical Christian and put together the services to his liking. Since he led the prayers and none of the Scouts helped prepare the services, when I stepped in as SM we had nothing. So, we pulled together some things off the Internet, some stuff from summer camp, and other bits and pieces. We went to a Council-wide camporee in 2005 and the Sunday service that included prayers for many different religions including Muslim, Hindu and Wiccan. I really liked that, but for at least a couple of families in our Troop, we could not possibly even try to have a single prayer at any time that wasn't Christian or didn't invoke Jesus. Heck, one of the parents from one of the families got very upset and yelled in my face because I allowed the Scouts to just TALK about different religions during a campout a couple of years ago. You know, the "Scouting is a Christian organization and you had no right allowing the other Scouts to suggest other religious views" etc. etc. The past year our SPL has picked a different Scout each week to say a prayer at the beginning of our meetings. This was in response to a couple of Scouts (families) that were uncomfortable with the heavy Jesus references used by the one Scout that always volunteered to do an opening prayer.

OGE: interesting that you bring that up. Was listening to some of the call ins to CSPAN last night. One guy, I don't remember what state he lives in, called in to say "I don't mean to be disrespectful, but why should a bunch of sod-busters get to decide who the next President will be." I'd hate to hear what he has to say when he IS being disrespectful!

This is the first time during an election cycle that I spent time watching (or even paying attention to) the Iowa Caucus. Watched both Republican and Democrat candidates' speeches, even watched the "lesser known" candidate debate. I took vacation from work from Christmas to New Year's and got hooked on politics. What fun! Since I live in South Carolina, guess I'll be paying attention during the primaries here. I am still undecided on a candidate, but I'm not surprised at the results from Iowa, although I really didn't think Ron Paul would do better than Guiliani, except of course that Guiliani didn't do much (any?) campaigning in Iowa.

I've known only a few Scoutmasters/ASMs (parents) that have imposed the no DL until earning Eagle on their sons. In only one case do I remember the Scout earning Eagle by the time he was 15. In the other cases, by the time the Scouts turned 16, then 17, and still had not earned Eagle, the parents gave in to the DL because they got tired of driving their sons around. An empty threat in those cases. None of those guys ever earned Eagle.

Hmmm, just saw my older son off with his friends to go to play a many-houred board game. He asked me if it was OK if younger brother, age 14, goes with them. It is older son's 21st birthday today. New Year's Day. And, as he has done since his 13th birthday, he had friends over for the night. Tonight was a bit different in that his college team, Clemson, was playing in a bowl game, and everyone was gathered to watch the game. Sadly, Clemson lost in overtime. But tonight is different. He is an adult. His friends are adults. This is the first year he has included his younger brother in the festivities. They have become friends, even though they are seven years apart. It was difficult for me to let younger son go with them tonight. I never let older son stay out so late. But, younger son is with his brother-I just couldn't say no. Besides, older son isn't taking his brother someplace unseemly, they are off to play a board game and I know the folks they are with, yeah, no harm at all. Younger son came in the house as I was sweeping up the debris from the minutes before New Year's celebration to ask if it was OK to go. He asked if I knew really that they may not be home until 3 or 4. Yes, I said. It's OK. Remember though that the real world hits again on January 3rd (back to school). I look back on 2007 and see that my sons have become friends - that is something I wasn't sure would ever happen because of their seven year age difference. For me, the increasing bond that is forming between my sons is what I look forward to in 2008. .

Happy New Year All! Best wishes for 2008

Jwall, Thanks for your responses to my questions. It does seem you have quite a mess on your hands and based on what you've posted I would agree with others that it is probably time to move on to another Troop. On the other hand, you mention that you've been on a number of campouts with the troop over the past nine months. If the SM is not there, what prevents you and other like-minded ASMs from eliminating the anarchy and producing a campout that meets your expectations? From what you've posted, the older Scouts are not interested and the younger guys have never had any guidance, so you will probably have to do a lot of hand-holding in the beginning to get the Scouts motivated. You will also probably have to resign yourself to the fact that the older Scouts are used to the way things have been done and are not likely to change. Good news is that with proper attention to the younger guys and good training and mentoring in developing their leadership, eventually those older guys will age out and the (now) younger guys will be the older Scouts leading the troop. It takes time, but it can happen. Since I do not know all the details of what is going on in your Troop and only reading one side of the issues, I will say that it is unfortunate that within nine months of joining the troop you and others tried to oust the SM. That, in itself, will probably cause the current SM to dig in his heels and impede and progress you try to make in helping the Troop. Sad, but human nature is what it is and sometimes we adults don't exactly behave nicely. So, in the end, with bad feelings flowing around in your Troop, it may be best to move on.

Jwall, I've read your post but it seems a bit vague to me. You say the Scoutmaster runs the Troop like a dictatorship - his way or no way - so I ask for a bit more information about your troop. What exactly is 'his way'? You've been with the troop for nine months. Did you and your son, and some of the other upset parents, cross-over from Webelos? What is the outdoor program like? How many times in that nine months have you gone camping? What other activities have occurred in that time? Did you go to summer camp? Fifteen Scouts have left in nine months? Wow, in our area that would completely knock out several troops. Were the boys that left new cross-overs (perhaps with your son) or Scouts that had been in the Troop for a while? How many boys are left now? What is the age range of the Scouts? How old is your Troop? How long has the SM been in the job? Is he trained? How about the Committee people and ASMs? Are they trained? Your post says there is no boy leadership. What are the Scouts in PORs required to do? What are the meetings like? Who runs them? Any skills sessions going on? Games? Does your troop have a PLC and, if so, when do they meet and what do they do during the meetings? You post that you "have gathered from a few trusty sources" that your Troop is way off course. That indicates to me that you haven't made the observations yourself, perhaps because you have not yet been to ASM training and do not know the methods of Scouting and how they should be implemented in a Troop? No uniform code in your Troop. What does that mean? Does anyone wear the uniform? Does the SM? Do you? Adults and parents want to do things for the boys. Can you give me some examples of what you mean? You post you will stick it out for a few more months to see if any changes are made that supposedly have been in the works for two years. What, specifically, are the changes you're expecting? I ask all these questions to get a clearer picture of your Troop. From your original post, all I can gather is that you dislike the way the SM is running things and have already tried to oust him. I can say that from a parent's point of view a few years ago when I stepped up as SM, it may have appeared that I was a dictator. I was trying to revive a failing troop and had to take a pretty hard line in the beginning to jump start the program. As far as the SM not going on any campouts: I am a SM who does not go on every campout. I did in the first couple of years, but sadly a health issue has caused me to back out on the more strenuous or cold adventures. If things can't be worked out in your Troop, are there others you can join? If you crossed-over from Webelos, did you visit these other troops? If so, what made you choose the Troop you are in now? In the end, whether you decide to step up as SM or start a new troop with some of the other parents and boys, keep in mind that it will not be easy. Sure, as Gold Winger posted, the mechanics and paperwork of starting a troop is easy. But, the operation of that new Troop or the resuscitation of the old will take enormous effort and commitment - for several years. I've seen my share of disgruntled parents starting a troop, only to have it fold in a few years when their boys quit, aged out, Eagled, or whatever. This is the situation I stepped into when my younger son joined the Troop. It was started by a few upset parents and struggled for years. To run a successful troop, among many other things, you have to be there for ALL the boys.

Interesting point Eamonn. An example of high expectations for first aid. At our fall camporee, one of the competitions was on first aid. The SM in charge told everyone at the Friday night's leader meeting that along with the activity he planned for the patrols - different scenarios such as a broken leg, head wound, etc. - he had a written test. He said he didn't expect anyone to get 100 on the test. He was right. He is a Red Cross First Aid/CPR instructor and the test he prepared was exhaustive. It was certainly more than the average 1st class Scout could handle and only a little easier for those guys with 1st aid merit badge. He did a good job going over it with the patrols and explaining the correct answers for what they got wrong, but I think what the guys came away with from the activity was to avoid it at next year's fall camporee. It took so much time they missed some of the other events in which they may have scored better. To use your words as far as the first aid activity is concerned, the Scouts may remember and say to themselves for next year "this is NOT doable and I won't do it."

"Dow Jones quarterly report syndrome" - that's an interesting way to put how some parents view Scouting advancement. I recently received an email from a Mom of a new Scout. He's a guy that visited our troop last February, but ultimately joined another troop. Seems he wasn't able to complete the 1st class orienteering requirement at his troop's campout a couple of months ago. She's asking me if I know of any place that has a one mile orienteering course set up where she can take her son so he can finish his 1st class requirements by this February - FCFY.

In another thread, Beavah asks at what level of proficiency our Scouts are signed off for rank requirements. In responding to his post, I thought about our Scouts and their rather dismal level of skill in first aid. What do your troops do for first aid demonstrations during meetings or on campouts. Is this an area where you rely on your older Scouts' skill level to be good enough to teach the younger Scouts? Do you count on patrol leaders to make sure all their members learn the skills needed, or the Troop Guide to make sure the new guys get it? Do the adults do the teaching to make sure it's correct? Do you bring in doctors/nurses/EMTs, etc. to a few meetings? Do any of your guys work on first aid merit badge outside of summer camp offerings? I've heard of some units putting together an emergency prep type weekend full of fake injuries to be treated and emergencies to be worked. Anyone here who has done this type of weekend, how did it go? Did the boys like it? Did they learn from it? Do they want to do it again? Do you think it gave them the knowledge and skills needed to handle themselves or others in an emergency or rendering first aid for an injury?

Beavah, I think we're approaching #2 but not quite there yet for many of the other requirements. Swimming is one that we look for actual proficiency (your #3), not just dog paddling and struggling. Some of our guys take a while to get there, but we want to make sure they are actually comfortable in the water, before we take them out somewhere. So many times a guy or his parents say he's a great swimmer, but that is only in a backyard swimming pool where he can easily reach the sides in just a few strokes and touch bottom without going under. Make him jump in a lake where most likely he can't touch the bottom much less see it and he can't take the first stroke. On safe swim/safety afloat, I would say that none of our 1st class Scouts could plan and carry out a float trip on their own or know the Safety Afloat/Safe Swim requirements from memory. Not even sure most of our older guys could. First aid is probably the worst area for our guys. Program plans are made for several meetings a year to go over and practice first aid because our older Scouts have recognized the poor level of skill in this area. But this kind of practice just doesn't lead to proficiency in my opinion. On any campout some guy gets a bee sting, burnt finger, or a cut and never rely on themselves or another Scout to help. Simple stuff that they are not comfortable handling on their own. [side Note: Of course, this may be because sadly our adults tend to step into these situations more quickly than we do others and perhaps we just haven't given the guys the space they need to build confidence in themselves to handle the siutation.]. Several times our guys have said they'd like to have more focus on first aid, but never follow through. Older Scouts that have earned 1st Aid merit badge have skills, but the T-1st class experience so far is pretty lacking. Better this year than last and we continue to increase our expectations, just slow getting there. Plant and animal identification requirements are more at your level #1. Guys are able to make the identifications, but ask them a few months later and they can remember what poison ivy looks like but little else. They can most often identify deer or raccoon tracks, maybe a type of bird's nest or a beaver dam, but that's about it. Knots? At last month's campout our very eager new Scout was trying to learn more knots. He came to the taught line. Asked me to help him. I said, please go ask another Scout. He came back to me a while later and said no one knew how to do it. Finally, our Troop Guide came back from setting up their orienteering course and got the guys together to learn "again" the taught line. It is a knot we actually use on campouts, but almost without fail the guys can't remember how to tie it. Later that afternoon I watched as eager New Scout tied a square knot over and over and got the Troop Guide to sign him off. The next morning we were sitting by the fire and I asked new Scout to tie a square knot. It took three tries until he got it. I practice the knots every so often and admit I don't always get them right on the first try either.

"In Tenderfoot he helped cook one meal. In Second Class he cooked one meal. Is that really enough to be ready to supervise others in the kitchen? Does cookin' one meal successfully really give yeh da skill to cook different meals successfully?" Short answer, no. We began changing the cooking expectations on campouts about three years ago. Back then, typical meals were - breakfast: scrambled eggs and bacon/sausage or poptarts. Lunch: cold cut sandwiches and chips. Dinner: hamburgers/hotdogs, maybe some chili heated up. The adults, of course, ate like kings but never demonstrated what they were doing or expected the guys to try harder with their meals. Also, the 1st class requirement of serving as patrol cook and supervising assistants was never done. Guys got their first class cooking signed off if they had just cooked three meals, didn't have to be on the same campout. That's not how I read the requirement so we made changes. Unfortunately, our older Scouts having had no real experience with cooking were pretty awful in helping the younger guys plan good menus. So, for a while the adults had to step in and make suggestions. We gave them challenges such as one of your meals must be cooked in a dutch oven, or look at this list of ingredients and a small recipe book and figure out what you can make for dinner. On every campout the adults cooked their own meals making something new or using a new method of cooking in order for the guys to see, smell, and taste different options. One weekend the adults demonstrated making all their meals with little or no cleanup. I think this demonstration was eye-opening for the guys because a lot of times they didn't want to cook much because they didn't want to clean up. Now, our guys working on first class have had experience on the way up helping to plan menus, prepare food and cook it, and can successfully supervise others in cooking their campout meals. While they may fall back on recipes they've used and liked in the past, they try at least one new thing on each campout. The biggest change I've seen is during the actual menu planning. What used to be a free for all that took up an entire meeting with everyone yelling and saying I won't eat that, yuck that's gross, now is at least becoming more focused and less time consuming. Perhaps it is because we took a better look at the advancement requirements. For a long time, one guy (usually an older Scout who was getting fed up with the bickering), wrote down the food items and someone else bought the food, usually in response to "who still needs to buy food for 1st class." Duty rosters were last minute affairs and no one supervised the cooking of the meals, so a lot of time whoever was cooking had no idea that there was bacon to go with the pancakes, or orange juice to drink, etc. Now, one guy writes down the food list, buys the food, and supervises. I believe that this was what is intended for 1st class cooking. On our last campout, our Scouts cooked two breakfasts, one lunch and one dinner: breakfasts were pancakes and bacon on day 1 and biscuits and gravy on day 2; for lunch they made dutch oven pizza; for dinner they found a recipe using Kraft mac and cheese, canned chicken, and corn. The Scout working on his 1st class cooking requirement did not know how to make the gravy for the biscuits and neither did any of the other Scouts. So, he came to me during their menu planning and asked if I would teach him. I guess some may think that this wasn't a proficiency level necessary for sign-off on 1st class, but the fact that he asked BEFORE they finished the menu plan was a big leap from a guy asking after they got to the campsite. From Beavah's original question, I think our troop fits #2: "planned a reasonable weekend's meals with little help, mostly copies previous month's plans," but with the addition of a new thing or two. Not quite to #3 - a complete healthy meal plan with zero help, but we can certainly encourage the guys to get there.

Am thinking about three Scouts that joined our Troop in Spring 2006. One completed his first class requirements last summer (just a little over a year), another just finished (about a year and a half), the third is still struggling to complete 2nd class requirements. The first Scout mentioned was a real go-getter in the beginning. Showed up for all meetings and went on all campouts. He carried his handbook everywhere and knew the requirements needed. Sadly, this guy is now going through divorcing parents and is having trouble making it to campouts and meetings (it's my weekend and I want him home, etc.). On his journey to First Class this Scout knew the skills, I'm only hoping he has retained them. Second Scout that just finished 1st class requirements took a bit longer to get there but in the past few months has really gotten into Scouting and has worked hard to learn his skills. Had a brief chat with him at our campout a couple of weeks ago as he was finishing up his 1st class cooking requirements. Yes, he wants his SM Conference when we return to meetings in January but admits he doesn't remember a lot of the earlier rank skills, especially knots. Third Scout just doesn't seem interested in advancement. Comes and goes whenever it suits him or his family. His mother made a comment about 2nd Scout (above) getting to first class and why hasn't her son gotten past 2nd since they both joined at the same time. She didn't like the answer I gave that her son missed out on many of the campouts we had that would have given him the opportunity to work on his requirements. Now we do have a fourth Scout that joined in the summer, a bit after the three mentioned above. He finished his 1st class requirements in about nine months. He was older to begin with, joining when he was 13 and very motivated to catch up to the younger guys, but especially to his friend (my son) who was Star Rank at the time. On campouts, this was the Scout that would be holding a length of rope, book open in his lap, practicing tying knots. This Scout went on everything we did. This Scout volunteered to run skills sessions for the younger guys so he could practice his own skills. He was the Scout that would seek out someone to demonstrate a skill so he could have it signed off. I would like to mention my son, now a Life Scout, who earned 1st class within his first year under our Troop's former advancement method. I would say that he DID NOT posses the skills necessary to earn the rank at the time, at least not to the expectations we now have in our Troop. He was 10 1/2 when he joined the Troop, 11 1/2 at First Class. He did not have the skills nor the maturity to be a leader in his Troop, but he did work well and had fun as a Den Chief. Like mtm's Troop, we have a yearly schedule with the opportunity for a new Scout to advance to first class if he's motivated to do so, but our experience is that it takes on average 18 months. A note about leadership for the FCFY guys. Like my son mentioned above, I haven't yet found an 11-12 year old that works well as a patrol leader, SPL/ASPL. They do reasonably well in Scribe, Quartermaster, etc. and perhaps that's OK for them to have while they are young. But, at least in my experience so far (admittedly not a lot), merely being first class is not an indication of a Scout's readiness or success as he works a POR for Star.

I like the idea of JASM, but I've had little success in the past with former SPLs transitioning to that job. I admit I didn't handle them very well. In the past, our former SPLs were 17 years old, at the threshold of Eagle, completed their PORs, and were not at all interested in doing anything with the troop other than show up from time-to-time to find out what they still needed to do to "make" Eagle. We currently have a guy in the JASM position, also 17, also needing only to finish a few merit badge requirements for Eagle, who has been absent these past few months due to sports conflicts. Good news is, he has kept in touch with me and has made efforts to attend a few campouts, even if only for a day, to help out. So, at least he is making an effort to live up to my expectations. Our most recent SPL, stepping down now to make way for the guy just elected, has talked to me about his future role in the Troop. He understands that our new SPL will need a LOT of guidance and mentoring and I think the job of JASM would be perfect for him. My son was picked as ASPL. He and the former SPL were really the only two Scouts that I considered ready for the SPL job. Both have had troop level JLT and Council NYLT. Son worked on staff this past year of summer camp, has been a Den Chief and Troop Guide for the past two years. So, though not perfect by any means, he's had experience with leadership. He has also said he would help new SPL in his job. I have learned a great deal from this experience. I was thrilled to see so many of our Scouts interested in leadership, albeit some of them for the wrong reasons. I think my glee over all the marvelous changes and growth that have been made in our Troop blinded me a bit to my responsibility to make sure boy-led doesn't turn into boy-led-into-the-ground. New SPL, for instance, will find out very quickly that he may have gotten more than he bargained for. I have very high expectations for these guys-something I communicate clearly and often-I just don't think he fully believes it. Former SPL made the job look easy because he had experience and maturity. So, we move forward into 2008. New youth leaders, new dynamics, new challenges. I've often reflected on the fact that a troop is not a fixed thing that operates smoothly year after year. Training and mentoring methods that may have worked with one group of Scouts, may not work at all with the next group. A troop and it's Scouts need constant and consistent attention - guess that's why I get paid the BIG BUCKS! Thank you folks for all your suggestions. Wish us luck in 2008.

Had elections last night. Did NOT turn out as I thought it would. Current SPL decided not to run to give the other guys a chance, so we had four running. Only seven Scouts showed up last night for the elections so that left 3 votes assuming each of the four would vote for himself. Newly minted 1st class Scout, age 13, was elected. Aside from the fact that I really would have preferred the Scouts vote for one of either of the two older Scouts that have experience in leadership, I find out now that the guy elected bribed the two younger Scouts present to vote for him. He told them if he was elected he wouldn't make them do anything and we would make all the older Scouts do everything. Now what do I do? Let it go? Address it somehow?

FScouter - I'll agree with you to a point. Scouting will never be an attractive enough activity for one of the boys I mentioned. The guy that has missed the past five campouts, ALWAYS has something much more attractive and thrilling to do with his family than camp in the woods: let's see, there was the Clemson Homecoming football game one weekend, a weekend in the Bahamas, a long weekend at Disney World are the three most recent. No, we don't schedule anything over school holiday long weekends because we know family may like to go out of town - his mother just pulls him out of school for a few days. I don't know what the family plan is for this coming weekend, but I'll bet it's spectacular. The fellow who's Mom wants him to stay with her this weekend generally attends about half of our activities, if he remembers. He is the one (actually only) Scout in our Troop that always says "no one told me about that, I didn't get the email, etc. etc." His Mom even admitted to me that she doesn't always read or even open emails about Scout stuff. She said to me "oh, if I see it's an email about Scouts I just put it aside to read later." Sure is a good way to miss out on important info. The plans the guys made for the year last August and the weekly meeting plans put together by our PLC each month are certainly attractive enough for the other eight boys in the Troop that come to the meetings and the campouts (for instance, regarding the aforementioned Clemson Homecoming Game: two of our Scouts had the opportunity to go but declined because they wanted to go on the backpacking trip). So, as I said I will agree with you in part. But, poor program isn't always the reason for poor attendance.

"If a boy was really excited about going, he would not change his mind and choose another activity, or forget." Unfortunately, that is not always the case. One of our Scouts just canceled for this weekend's trip because it is his Mom's weekend with him and she doesn't want him to go. Another of our Scouts has missed the last five months of camping trips because of family obligations. Edit to add: all families receive a copy of our yearly calendar and know well in advance the dates of all our campouts and activities.(This message has been edited by gwd-scouter)

Sorry OGE. Here ya go - mar ours?? ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ROTFL!!!! Back to the topic, I don't think we need worry about LNT on other planets. I figure we can just pay them back for their discourteous ignorance of LNT ethics: crop circles, cattle mutilations (of course, that may be the chubacabra), and, of course, leaving those pesky unidentified metal objections in their abductees.

For the past three years our Troop has had 3 guys earn Eagle, one for each year, all three just before their 18th Birthday. The first two did not want a Court of Honor and I just heard from the 3rd guy that he is home from college and wants to come by and pick up his award. Doesn't want a Court of Honor either. Is this normal for guys that earn Eagle at 18? We have another who needs to finish up a couple of merit badge requirements and he, too, will be turning 18 in the Summer and then going off to college. Will he also decline to have a Court of Honor? I hope not.

Hmmm, according to the historical document, Independence Day, the aliens are in Area 51 along with a working space ship. As for grabbing the roll of Reynolds, here's a bit of useful information: An Aluminum Foil Deflector Beanie (AFDB) is a type of headwear that can shield your brain from most electromagnetic psychotronic mind control carriers. AFDBs are inexpensive (even free if you don't mind scrounging for thrown-out aluminium foil) and can be constructed by anyone with at least the dexterity of a chimp (maybe bonobo). This cheap and unobtrusive form of mind control protection offers real security to the masses. Not only do they protect against incoming signals, but they also block most forms of brain scanning and mind reading, keeping the secrets in your head truly secret. AFDBs are safe and operate automatically. All you do is make it and wear it and you're good to go! Plus, AFDBs are stylish and comfortable. What are you waiting for? Make one today!

Though not human, would the newly discovered (at least new in 1947) alien remains in Roswell count as a separate class?