gwd-scouter

My 21-year-old son spent the weekend camping in Asheville. He and his friends picked a nice family type camping area and it had planned activities for children and adults during the weekend. Saturday night had a campfire program. After going through several songs and skits, program leader pointed to my son and said, "Hey Mr. Eagle Scout, bet you know a song you could teach us." Son was astounded. He was not wearing anything that would identify him as a Boy Scout, much less an Eagle Scout. He went up and asked her how she knew. She said it was because the only time she sees young men so enthusiastically participating in singing around a campfire with a group of strangers, they are almost always Eagle Scouts. So, son led a song. Afterwards, a young boy came up to him, tugged on his shorts, and asked "Mr., can we do that again?" Pardon the momentary proud Mom moment, but...here's to you son, spreading Scout Spirit wherever you go.

Guess I fit into John-in-KC's training schedule. I was a CM with that entire list of training except Tiger Leader and Den Chief training. That was because I started out as a Tiger Leader (so long ago there wasn't training for it) and continued up through the years with my Den taking the training each year along the way up to CM. Five years as CM for a large 100+ pack was the most fun I've had in Scouting other than running Cub/Webelos Resident Camp. Went to PowWow many times because it was fun. I don't think it's necessary for a CM to take the DL trainings, but because I had been in those jobs it did help me in dealing with our DLs and helping them when they had problems or questions. I've been away from Cub Scouting for a while now, but there are times when I'd like to go back.

I have become hopelessly fascinated with this year's primaries. I have never spent this much time watching TV or paying attention to what is going on. I watch CSPAN a lot. I get a kick out of the call-in segments. I even watch CNN and some of the shows on Fox. Sometimes Sean Hannity gets on my nerves and can be downright mean and Alan Colmes needs to get a backbone. To me, CNN is obviously left-leaning - especially Cafferty. With tongue firmly planted in cheek I say that by watching both I figure I'm getting "fair and balanced" reporting. Today CSPAN will be airing the deliberations about what to do with Florida and Michigan. My day is planned. The suspense is killing me...I hope it never ends.

OGE - thanks for the compliment, but our sons have always been very enthusiastic Scouts from the time they joined in first grade. You know, that fairly rare breed that thinks Scouting is cool. Older son enjoyed camp school. This was actually the second time he's been. First time two years ago when he was the Ecology Director. This year as Camp Commissioner. Both sons are leaving at the end of next week for staff week and away they go for the summer. Very cool thing too is that another of our Troop's Scouts is working for the first time this year. Too bad we can't get more Scouts from our District to work at camp. I have always thought it was one of the best experiences a Scout could have - it has been for my sons.

Hi Lisa. Since I don't know your son I can't speak to whether he would do a good job as SPL. I can only relate my recent experience with our 14 year old SPL. Last December we had elections and I was surprised that we had five guys that wanted to run. The current SPL was running again, and four others. In the end, the current SPL decided not to run so we held elections with four Scouts: one 15 Life Scout, one 15 1st Class, and two just turned 14 1st Class Scouts. I was hesitant about the two younger Scouts mostly because I didn't honestly think they were ready, but I had seen some good signs of growth in them and also knew that if I told them they couldn't run there would be heck to pay with their mothers (I know, definite cowardice on my part). Anyway, one of those 14 year olds won. I have another thread running about all this and how it all turned out so I won't go into great detail here. I will say that these past six months have been hard work and exhausting. He started out well, but it became obvious just a couple of months in that he really didn't want the job and was happy to be unprepared and just let the older Scouts step in to save him. His mother witnessed a few of these saves and berated me about the older Scouts (especially my son) embarrassing him and how I really didn't want him to be SPL and harbored resentment that my son was not elected. A couple of months ago it became very clear to me that this Scout was no longer interested in the job. He stopped arranging PLCs and left it to our other junior leaders to take over. Sure, he'd show up for a meeting and immediately take the front and open up the meeting. But then he'd just stand there waiting for someone to take over and do something. Sadly, in the end, just this week he's decided he is no longer interested in Scouts and dropped out of both NYLT and summer camp. Just called me on the phone and told me last Monday. His mother was upset when I told her that their deposits for both camps could not be refunded by Council at this late date. "Leadership is too hard for him and he's burned out. Scouts just isn't fun anymore," she said. I'm not suggesting any of this would happen in your case, Lisa. Just wanted to share my recent experience.

Wow, have six months gone by already? What an interesting time we've had with our junior leaders. Some good things, some bad experiences. I would say that young SPL tried in the beginning to do a good job. The problem was, none of the other Scouts in the Troop respected him, especially those that he bribed to get the vote in the first place. He was frustrated, his mother called or emailed complaining that she didn't understand why he had to do XXX or YYY, and that I was expecting too much. When young SPL failed to follow through on plans for a meeting or didn't prepare and showed obvious lack of knowledge about something, my younger son would step in. This led to complaints that I was showing favoritism, that I really wanted my son to be SPL and was purposefully encouraging him to take over and embarrass young SPL. Not to mention another youngish Scout (friend of the SPL) that was selected to be our Troop Guide, working with our three new Scouts. He knows his scout skills and was very good at teaching them. Problem was he can be rather mean. He thinks he's being funny, but one of our new Scouts most certainly didn't see it that way. It all came to a head on a camping trip a couple of months ago when the SPL, Troop Guide and another Scout were bullying our newest Scout so badly, calling him names I will not repeat here, that the new Scout pulled out his knife and waved it at them. What a fiasco! The situation was dealt with so I won't go into detail here about the aftermath of that campout, except to say that, of course, the mothers of our two new junior leaders were all up in arms about their sons being threatened by the new Scout and said nothing at all when told about the part their sons played in the whole incident. You know, my son can't do anything wrong kind of thing. It's been six months and I am exhausted dealing with these guys. I've tried to help them. I've tried to teach them. I've tried to come up with different ways to encourage them. I found out just a couple of weeks ago from young SPL that the real reason he ran for the job was because he wanted to show up his friend. Sure wish I'd known that six months ago. So, in the end, after some self-examination, I can say that these past six months have not been any fun. It has been work and I'm disappointed because we had been progressing so well toward our goal of a boy-led Troop. Not saying we can't get back on track and, in fact, I'm grateful for the things I've learned about my own leadership and that of our Scouts. The worst thing to come out of all of this: After these two Scouts actively sought leadership, after their mothers almost demanded it and were very strong advocates for their sons, after going to bat for them and encouraging them, after recommending them for NYLT, they have both just dropped out of NYLT with only one week to go before the beginning of camp. The SPL dropped out because "I don't like leadership, it's too hard, I don't think I want to be in Scouts anymore," and the other because his mother doesn't want him to go by himself. Guess I haven't done a very good job for the past two years with these guys in instilling the value of Trustworthiness and following through on a commitment. Oh well, guess the best I can do is learn from the experience and move on. Summer camp is only four weeks away and it is a week I look forward to all year.

A lot of good advice given here. But, there is one line in the original post that, to me, is very telling and none of the advice given will help. "But he doesn't want a female Scoutmaster. None of the boys do." We only have one side of the story here. But, as a female SM myself, I can say that kind of resentment is clearly felt by your new SM. Maybe she is pushing back hard against it. Maybe that resentment is the reason your troop has gone from boy-led to adult-led in six months. Although, from reading the post, I can't see that your troop was so completely boy-led since because of the former SM absence, campouts decreased and meetings were less organized and the troop became "adrift." Seems that the former SM was very involved in directing the show, perhaps even setting the agenda. Delegated the program to the older boys? If that was really true, his absences should not have had such a negative impact on the Troop in such a short time. "The older boys were in open revolt and the younger boys had little to no guidance from the older scouts since." Looks to me like the problem is not just your new SM. No amount of talking to her, getting her trained, and other advice given here is going to fix the fact that the older Scouts don't want her.

Contracts signed and extra uniform parts purchased - both sons gearing up for a summer at Camp Old Indian. Older son will be this year's Camp Commissioner and is this week attending National Camp School for that. Younger son will return to the Ecology Department - this year as a paid counselor. Except for our week taking the Troop to camp, I'm looking forward to carefree summer with hubby!

My older son was buying a bunch of board games from a store in Greenville, SC called Boardwalk and Parkplace. When he mentioned the games were for Scout Camp this summer, they gave him a 10% discount. Nice.

Speaking from the female point of view - not sure I like those bellows pockets on the front!

Last weekend our Troop hosted a Webelos Den on our campout. The Den Leader, Cubmaster, one Dad, and four Webelos came. Great weekend. The Den Leader's son has autism. These guys are planning to cross over to our Troop in the fall after they earn the Arrow of Light and we are looking forward to it. Talked a long time with Dad about his son. He wants his son to get the most out of the Boy Scout experience, but realizes that it will most likely require his (Dad's) presence on all outings. Dad has already decided to take our Council's SM/ASM trainings in the fall and intends to sign on as an ASM with our Troop when his son crosses over. The autistic Scout is a delightful young man, high functioning, amazingly articulate, pretty good social skills (although he has trouble looking people in the eye when he talks), and seems to have formed a special bond to my younger son and me. During the weekend, he would wander off from time-to-time, but one of our Scouts would follow him and bring him back to the group. What was very cool to me was that Dad didn't hover over this boy, but rather let our Scouts step in and help. Very proud of our Scouts for their patience. jhubb, I think you should talk with the family of the Webelos Scout and find out what they want for their son. Most likely they would want their son to continue with his group from Cubs and will take an active part in your Troop. Beavah makes a good point about discussing with the family their expectations and the program your Troop offers. Your Troop's typical activities may be more than the boy could handle and therefore wouldn't be a good experience for him. Don't sell your Scouts short - I've seen many special needs Scouts in Packs and Troops over the years and have always been impressed with the patience and understanding shown by the other Scouts.

I think many Scouters simply disregard or don't care about the word "everyday" in that requirement. I'll even go so far as to say that I know of Scouters that don't even think much of the "living the Scout Oath and Law" part. For instance, how many Scouters do you guys know that measure success in fulfilling that requirement with only two things: 1) a Scout wears his uniform properly and 2) attends X number percentage of Scout meetings and events. Ditto the sigh...

BrentAllen. I've seen a difference in attendance between those units, large or small, that have an actual percentage requirement for advancement and those that do not. In our District, almost all of our Troops (and all of the large Troops) have some kind of attendance policy. In talking with other SMs, I often hear that they rarely reach 50% attendance at meetings and outings. Like you say in your post, we have a couple of Troops that say they have 50 or 60 Scouts, but go to a camporee and notice that only a dozen or so of their Scouts are there. I am not trying to disparage large troops as I'm sure there are others out there that have a different experience, this is just my observation of the troops in my District. We have a small troop of 11 Scouts. One Scout is almost 18 and finishing his last few requirements for merit badges for Eagle. He his very busy being a HS Sr., involved in many school sports, has a part time job. He still manages to attend at least one meeting a month and has been on a few of our campouts this past year. The other 10 Scouts show up almost 100% for meetings and outings. This wasn't always the case for our Troop, but it is something I've noticed happening for the past year. We do not have an attendance policy - no percentages for rank advancement, etc. We do make it very clear to Scouts and parents that Scouting does take some commitment and Scouts will only get out of the program what they are willing to put into it (like AvidSM says in his post). Almost all of our Scouts are involved in middle school or high school band and/or sports and they are required to make practices, games, and concerts. Perhaps because we do not have hard rules about attendance, I've noticed that if we are camping reasonably locally, guys that may have a game or concert on Friday night or even Saturday morning will come to the campout afterwards. I would say we run an excellent program. Learning and fun going on at meetings. Learning and fun going on at campouts. At least one outing a month. Planning being done by the Scouts. For us at least it seems the guys are enjoying what they're doing and what to keep doing it.

LisaBob, isn't it exciting when we see our sons take on more adventure? Very proud moment for him and for you. I remember not too long ago, my younger son declare he was NEVER going backpacking again - and that was after a short, fairly easy 5 mile hike in good weather. On last month's troop campout, all the guys hiked in a little under two miles to the campsite. Then, younger son, along with three other Scouts (our Troop's four "senior" Scouts), set off on their own backpacking adventure. They picked the most difficult trail in the area. Had a blast, even though the weekend was cold and rainy at times. Just a couple of weeks ago during spring break, younger son, two of those other older Scouts, husband and another ASM, went on a 2 1/2 day trip along the AT - covered 18 miles. Tired and sore, but already making plans for the next trek. And, yes, I concur about hiding the Campmor and REI catalogs!

About a year ago, I was having a SM conference with our then SPL. He mentioned that something he'd do to improve the Troop was to have more service projects. He was correct in that we didn't do very many through the course of a year. Since then, we now usually have some sort of community service opportunity about once a quarter and have close to 100% participation in these projects, whether the guys "need" hours or not. I was recently contacted by a community group asking our Troop to help them out. Unfortunately, we already have a service project for another group during the same month. So, I contacted another Troop in the area and told them about the project request. The response I got from the leader was he was sure there were a couple of guys that "needed" hours and he would let them know. Something about this just smacks me as wrong. Shouldn't we be building a culture in our Troops that community service is something the Scouts ought to do rather than something they have to do for rank - you know, I've done my hours for (insert rank here), so I don't have to do any more?

Since this was spun from my post, I'll try to answer jblake. Since we were so small, we only had one patrol. We had an SPL, although he functioned as a PL but the guys liked the title better. We did have a Troop Guide to help out the new guys that joined most recently. Since we've now formed two patrols, the SPL and Troop Guide are now PLs and we don't actually have an SPL or Troop Guide. So, no, they are not doubling up as SPL and TG. I understand your comment about too many chiefs and I also agree that sometimes Troops fill all kinds of PORs because boys "need" a position, not because the Troop has a real need for someone in a position. In fact, we moved away from that several years ago and have guys in minimal PORs. I most certainly agree that if you have the majority of your Scouts with a patch on their sleeve, a title with no real responsibility, that can lead to a mess.

We have been operating as a single patrol troop for years because we've only had a dozen boys or so and usually had 6-8 at meetings and campouts. We now have 11 Scouts (one about to age out who is not very active) but I've noticed that we have 10 at all our meetings and even had all 11 on our last backpack trip. What we don't have in our troop is a spirit of teamwork, unity, identity. It's becoming the "older guys," and "new guys," and the leaders (those middle guys in new PORs). When talking with Eagle son, who is also one of our ASMs, he said, "so what if we're small, we still could have two patrols. I think he's right. Last week we formed two patrols of five. Scout #1, who is newly elected as our SPL/PL is Patrol Leader for Patrol #1, Scout #2, Troop Guide who has been having great difficulty working with our newer Scouts, is now PL for Patrol #2. Mixed age patrols, each with an even mix of Scouts ranging from Tenderfoot to Life. Last week they came up with Patrol names, began designing flags and a cheer. We have a campout coming up in a few weeks that will be the first in which they have separate patrol sites and must begin to work and rely on the members of their patrols to get things done. Our Troop has enough equipment for two patrols (enough for four or five actually). I admit this set up flies in the face of what some would call the perfect world of Scouting. Eagle son and I actually made up the patrols. The Patrol Leaders were not elected, but had a change in their POR as I stated above. We considered the age, experience and personalities of all the Scouts involved. We both knew, as did the other adult leaders, that we had a situation brewing in our troop, that our current crop of junior leaders were in over their heads (I have several posts about our Troop elections last December and won't go into all that again here), and we needed to do something quickly to help these junior leaders connect with the concept of "servant leadership" and before we lost our new Scouts. It is my hope that by splitting the guys up into these two small patrols, the PLs will have a better chance to grow and learn in their PORs, our new Scouts will feel more welcomed, and our older Scouts will continue to mentor.

Indeed.

Ed, wouldn't make any difference. He's the same guy that tells people Scouts and Scouters have to be in uniform when traveling, the purpose of SM Conference and BOR is to retest Scouts, and that setting attendance requirements is OK for advancement.

Well, that's what I thought. Since the Tour Permit asks for the name of the Baloo Trained leader for a Pack campout, and the G2SS mentions it again for Pack campouts but says nothing in regards to Webelos Dens campouts or camping with a Troop, my take on it was that the Webelos coming camping with us do not need to bring a Baloo person. But, our District Training Chairman tells me otherwise. He said anytime Cubs go camping they must have a Baloo trained person along. He did add, however, that if the Webelos coming with our Troop were 2nd years and no 1st years were in attendance then we wouldn't need the Baloo leader. Amazing! Figuring that he was giving me misguided information (I've heard for many years people making a distinction in approved activities between 1st year Webelos and 2nd year Webelos), I called our Council and spoke to the DE in charge of organizing the Baloo training. He said no one had ever asked about Webelos camping with a Troop so he would check with the guy that actually does the training.

Our Troop is hosting a Boy Scout/Webelos campout in May which will be attended by Webelos Scouts and their leaders/parents from three packs. The question has come up by one of the Den Leaders about whether they need to provide a Baloo trained person. I'm thinking Baloo isn't needed since this is a Boy Scout sponsored activity and not a Cub Scout campout. Anyone have experience with this?

This is a favorite Sunday breakfast for our guys (adults too) because there is no cleanup. Since a Scout can add whatever he wants to his omelet, there is less bickering over the meal "I hate ham," "peppers/onions? yuck," etc. Yes, do use freezer bags since they hold up better. Those usually have a place that can be used to write the Scout's name/initials on the bag. Be sure to squeeze all the air out of the bag before dropping in boiling water. We usually bring along flour tortillas and roll out the omelet into them and then eat. More filling - nothing to clean up.

"Do your Scout Parents really know....everything that is required for their sons to have a program?" - Most of our parents do. There are a couple that seem to think we volunteers have all sorts of leisure time that they do not, but thankfully that's only a couple. "Is your committee fully staffed? Are they trained? Do you have enough Assistant Scoutmasters? Is there enough parental involvement for outings?" Our Committee is fully staffed and trained. We have three fully-trained ASMs and one newly registered who is finishing training this weekend (OLS). We also have three former adult leaders from our Troop on our Committee that help conduct our BORs. So, we have at least enough adult leadership for our needs as we are a small Troop. Because of our Committee and ASMs, I've noticed I have a lot more time for mentoring and training those Scouts in leadership positions. We got our adult leadership fully trained because I kept reminding folks of the training dates and I guess they finally figured out that I expected a lot from the boys, a lot from myself, and a lot from them too. Gotta say, we have a fantastic bunch of leaders now. The other parents in our Troop that are not registered leaders are asked to help out with one or two things a year and, so far, with the exception of the couple I mentioned above, everyone has been willing to help and has followed through. Gunny, I have found it more cumbersome than it's worth to have tag along parents at campouts. They usually do not fully understand the program and could cause disruption if your troop is boy-led, which can come across as chaotic to the untrained eye. The best way to communicate your need for help to your Scout parents is to ask someone directly to help with a specific task. General pleas for help usually go unanswered.

we have one of those Coleman drip machines, but we rarely use it these days. We use the "tea" bag coffee packets most of the time. Sometimes, if I'm in charge of the coffee, I just throw a couple of those pre-made coffee/filter packs into our metal camp coffee pot, fill with water and let it boil for a while. I do tend to make very strong coffee - husband says I should just put a pinch of freeze-dried Folgers between my cheek and gums.

BobWhite - with only 11 Scouts, we only have one mixed-age patrol. We do have a patrol leaders council that meets once a month to make plans for the meetings and campout coming up. This includes the SPL (PL really, but they like the sound of SPL), ASPL/APL, Quartermaster, Scribe and a Troop Guide who works specifically with our two newest Scouts that just joined in November. We've worked for several years to turn our troop around from adult-led and I am very proud of our guys and the enthusiasm and initiative they are showing. We are working with three different packs and their Webelos Dens (currently 1st years) and hope to have a good number of crossovers next year. Then we will be able to form at least two patrols. Gunny, a few years ago our older Scouts were much like yours. Figured they had "been there, done that" and didn't need to do anything, especially working with younger Scouts. The current crop of older guys grew up during the changes in our troop over the past three years and learned to become the leaders, then pass that leadership knowledge down to the group just below them (the middle guys), and now those middle guys are growing in leadership by teaching and guiding the newer guys. It's a wonderful thing to see, but it took time to get there.