gwd-scouter

I always get a bit choked up when one of my former Cub Scouts earns his Eagle. My older son to help with an Eagle BOR. It was for a Scout that was in the Pack for five years while I was CM. I remember presenting him with his Arrow of Light. Older son was Den Chief for the Scout's Webelos Den for two years. After the BOR, Eagle Candidate and his father told me that they were both very proud to have older son's signature on the Eagle Application.

Oh my - how could I have forgotten about the shrubbery? OGE - haven't forgotten about the sedan chair idea you posted - was it last summer or the summer before? Maybe this year...

I've been away from Cub Scouts for a while now and many times I think I'd like to go back. I really enjoyed those little guys. Another thread is running right now about how hard it is to keep a Tiger Den together for lack of leadership. I think it would be wonderful if you offered your help to a Pack in town as a Tiger Den Leader. Go forth and re-energize!

We are heading off to Camp Old Indian (Blue Ridge Council, SC) this Sunday. Something is different with our Scouts this year. I was filling out the activity sheet for check-in and noticed that the guys have really changed direction on what they pick for merit badges to do. In the past, our Scouts almost always picked Eagle required badges which to me seemed like turning camp into a merit badge factory. I just couldn't understand why the guys chose to sit in a classroom and take, for instance, the Citizenship badges (I really wish camp would discontinue teaching those). For the past few years I've tried to encourage the Scouts to choose fun and challenging activities. It's been a hard sell for a while, especially with some parents who see advancement opportunities, but this summer is different. While they were picking what to do, I overheard a few older Scouts talking to younger Scouts saying, "oh, you don't want to do that one, we can do that here, why don't you do this one, it's really fun." They also came up with a few theme days for lunch assembly. One day is Hawaiian day when they will all wear Hawaiian shirts and flower leis. Indiana Jones day is planned complete with a boulder and a golden artifact. The third day is based on Monty Python and one Scout will gallop into assembly riding a stick horse while the others clap coconut halves behind him. I just love summer camp!

We had one Scout attend NYLT last week. At our Scout meeting on Monday, he was telling me about the camp and what he did. At one point, he commented, "there sure are a lot of lame troops out there." He went on to explain that he couldn't believe there was Life Scout in his patrol that had never been backpacking. He said he had to stop another Scout from throwing a knife into a tree. A Star Scout in his patrol had no idea how to cook. Before I could say anything he said, "guess we have a really good troop." Talking further with him, I noticed he was somehow different. He had moments of difficulty in the past wearing is uniform properly and he he was perfectly uniformed right down to the socks. We had a Court of Honor on Monday and many of our Scouts were absent because of vacations or working at summer camp. Without preparation, he just stepped in to run the COH. Did a nice job too. After COH we talked a bit more and he said he had a lot of new games he'd like to play at the end of meetings. "I'd like to talk to you Mrs. B. about that and some other cool ideas I have." Superb! He was telling a story about something unfortunate that happened to him at camp. In the past, he would have either not told the story or fixed it up so that he didn't come off looking bad. This time, he told the story and at the end said, "boy, I was really dumb to do that." Self-deprecating? An ability to reflect on one's actions? Fantastic! I have described this Scout (and his mother) in other posts as being somewhat difficult to deal with. At the end of our meeting, his mother came up to me and thanked me for sticking with him and for recommending him for NYLT. I think she finally gets it. I know her son does.

Eamonn, "just being around to witness them having fun and enjoying being boys while maybe learning the odd little something or other" is the best part of summer camp for me. No sexism taken.

Our troop leaves for summer camp in a week. Husband and another ASM signed up for two-deep leadership. I am also signed up, but because of an ongoing health condition which right now is under control, I can't be counted on if I get a flare-up and have to leave. Just found out that 2nd ASM may not be able to go, or at least not for the full week, because of a work situation. Have been working on securing another adult, but without success. Husband mentioned our situation to a co-worker - a SM in another district whose troop is going to camp the same week. That Scouter said they had room in their campsite for our troop and we could just join in with them and share leadership if needed. Aren't Scouters wonderful!

A terrible event to be sure and our prayers are with the Scouts, Scouters and their families. It's heartening to know that something good came out of this tragedy - the news is full of the wonderful performance of those Scouts and Scouters taking care of each other and rendering first aid to the injured. Nationally televised and printed good news about Boy Scouts for a change.

You didn't mention the rank of your son, but our Cub Resident Camp requires one adult per Cub Scout (Wolf and Bear) and one adult per three Webelos Scouts. Whatever the rank of your son, I think it's incredibly presumptuous of your Cubmaster to sign up a boy assuming you would be in charge of him. Perhaps your Cubmaster does not know the Scout needs an adult partner? You also mention that this is a local district camp. I always thought Resident Camp was a Council event. Also that you do not want a week of it. Our Resident Camp is only four days. You don't mean day camp, do you? If day camp, then a Scout may register without an adult.

I know my feelings about cell phones are unpopular, but I just don't understand the need for a 13-year-old (or younger!) to carry a cell phone. But, back to the thread... We do not impose an outright ban on electronics, rather we try to convey why they are not necessary. When we have our parents meeting before summer camp to go over all the last minute details, I always mention to them that their sons should really leave the cell phones at home. For one reason, there are only a couple of places in the parking lot of camp where a phone will get a signal, and a weak one at that, and the boys aren't supposed to be hanging out in the parking lot anyway (camp rules). Another reason is it is too easy a lifeline for those boys that may be feeling a bit of homesickness. You know, boy is tired, hot, feeling a bit homesick - quick call home to Mom and/or Dad, Mom/Dad says how much (s)he misses the boy. Or, boy mentions something negative that happened to him and Mom/Dad suddenly want to rush to his aid and bring him home. Regarding other electronics. No problem with MP3s at night when the guys are settling down for sleep - actually helps keep them relax and get quiet. For daytime though, I do emphasize the reason we are going to camp. The boys get to experience a week in nature, taking time to enjoy hanging out with each other and other Scouts. Watch a bird, stalk a frog, splash in the creek, play frisbee in the meadow, play a game of cards, chess, checkers in the campsite - all kinds of things to do WITH someone else. Plugging their ears with an IPod or isolating themselves with a video game takes away from the camp experience. Most parents nod in agreement at the "wise" old Scoutmaster.

You know you're getting old when your son asks with complete astonishment..."you were born in the 50s?"

Thanks for the advice so far, I will print them and give to my son. - OA meetings are now held an hour before the monthly district roundtable. This change in schedule has been widely publicized in newsletters, emails, websites, etc. - Agree the chapter needs a Chief that is actually there and doing something, rather than Advisor picking up the slack. As it has been for the past three months, older son Advisor, younger son, and one other Scout have been the only participants at meetings. All three are working all summer at Scout Camp, but plan to get serious about building up meetings in the fall even if no one has the official title of Chapter Chief. - Those three have already discussed and it has already been announced at roundtable that the Chapter will help plan and staff this year's fall camporee and be in charge of setting up campfire program. A large task for what is now only a 3-man Chapter, but these three are VERY enthusiastic Scouts/Scouter.

Thank you for your very thoughtful answers to my questions jblake. It has certainly given me a better view of your Troop than some of your other posts. One thing you wrote caught my eye: "The very first taining my PL's got when they took over the three NSP's this year was: "These are your boys, I expect you to take care of them. " I read that to mean that the three PLs were not elected by the members of their patrol, but selected by you?

Well, my son the OA Advisor does go to roundtable every month and does have time on the agenda to talk about the OA. Chapter Chief is not at all involved so getting him to talk to the Lodge is not going to happen. Older son has been told at roundtables by a few SMs that they would get their OA Troop Representative to contact him, but so far none have.

jblake writes: "My boys have fun, lots of it, but they take their scouting seriously. They take their responsibilities to their fellow scouts seriously. They take their word seriously." ... Maybe as adults we need to take scouting seriously too." and "As far as the scout that doesn't care? Well, caring can be taught as well, it may take a little longer than the boy who cares naturally, but it can be taught, especially if the SM cares enough to give it a try. Lead by example." I enjoy reading your posts, but must admit I'm am overwhelmed by your seemingly perfect troop of boys. I marvel at your post that all your boys are caring and committed and take Scouting seriously. Knowing that you may take this next bit as sarcasm, it is not intended to be. You asked if anyone had a specific question to post it. Here are mine. What specifically have you done as far as training and mentoring in your Troop to achieve such success? If you have ever had difficulty with a Scout getting him to care and take responsibility seriously, what did you do to turn that around? All your boys take Scouting seriously - how did you manage that? Also, are you really implying if a SM has less than stellar success in turning around a boy who doesn't care or isn't up to the challenges of leadership, or if we have Scouts that don't take their word or responsibilities seriously, that we somehow don't care and aren't taking Scouting seriously ourselves?

Good day all. I appreciate the comments and I've enjoyed reading them, although at times they've been a bit confusing. I don't think I've ever posted anything that prompted so much debate. It is difficult for me, at times, in my postings to paint a really clear picture of what goes on in our Troop. This thread for instance caused confusion because I referred to our SPL when, in fact, we are a small Troop operating as one patrol, so his title really should be PL. I don't know if this will help alleviate the spirited debate that's going on, but the Scout we've had these past six months as PL was indeed a poor choice made by the boys. He and another younger Scout in our Troop announcing they wanted to run for PL was what prompted my initial post. I knew if either of them was elected, it would be difficult for them. But, we have worked very hard to become boy-led and I couldn't step in an make a command decision about their elections. They would just have to learn from and live with the consequences of a poor choice - which is exactly what we've done for the past six months. Last year was a marvelous year and a point at which I thought we had arrived at what we had worked so hard toward. In my original post I wrote: "The current SPL and the two 14-year-olds are the Scouts that I give full credit to for the successes our troop has had this past year and for raising the expectation of boy leadership. This past year they alone have been our PLC, planning and carrying out our meetings and outings." So, with apologies again for using the wrong terminology, I do think we've been using the methods effectively for our unit size. Last year the boys elected a PL who was terrific. This year they didn't. BobWhite: I am interested in your post about letting the Scouts separate into two patrols, even with only 10 guys in our Troop. That is, in fact, something they did about two months ago. Both mixed age, each with five Scouts. The fellow I've been referring to as SPL is the PL for the "no name" patrol. The other younger Scout that ran for "SPL" is the PL for the "lightening" patrol. They came up with patrol names, yells and flags. This division was prompted mostly because they wanted fair teams for the weekly end of meeting ultimate frisbee. What I've been noticing though is a real bonding and patrol spirit in the lightening patrol. Not quite so much with the no-names, but that, I think, is due in large part to the lack of enthusiasm and spirit in their PL (the SPL I've been referring to in this thread). This fall/winter we are expecting four Webelos Scouts to cross over to our Troop. They went camping with us last May and had a wonderful time. So with four more Scouts we look forward to enhancing the use of the patrol method in our Troop. Because of our size, we take quite a hit in the summer months - we have two guys working all summer at Scout Camp, one guy spending the summer in Texas with his father, another going on a month long mission trip with his church. We go to summer camp in two weeks. After that, the guys pretty much have games and fun each week for whomever shows up. They do have a spelunking trip planned for July, then a pool party and campout in early August. End of August when school is back in session and all our Scouts are back, we hold our annual planning weekend. The Scouts also want to hold elections then for a new PL (or PLs if they decide they want to continue with their two small patrols). I believe they have learned from the past six months that their choice of PL can make a big difference. This time perhaps, they will choose more wisely.

We have a Scoutreach unit in our District, started about a year ago, that serves troubled youth in a particularly poor part of our town. It is not run exactly like a traditional Scout Troop, but from what I've heard, it is doing very well.

I have to agree with John-in-KC here. I have never known a Pack to hold a Blue and Gold Banquet any time other than in February to celebrate the anniversary of Scouting. Since you say it has been your pack's tradition to hold it in June, I imagine you've run into the same problem every year with vacations, baseball, etc. Since you are considering scheduling your B&G earlier, why not move it to February? Boys still work on advancement through the remainder of the school year. Then, you can have an end-of-school pack meeting. We always did that with a celebration of the beginning of summer as our theme. We always had a big turnout for our last pack meeting - perhaps because we had ice cream sundaes at the end!

In another thread BobWhite posts about three of his sailors about to earn Eagle and two their Girl Scout Gold Awards. I know that male Venturing Scouts do not have to be dual registered with a Troop in order to continue working on Eagle. Do Girl Scouts have to be dual registered? If not, how does it work for them continuing on their way toward the Gold Award by only being in a Venturing Crew? What do they do in the Crew that supports the requirements for their award? Just curious.

--"Would the size of the troop keep you from being able to use the methods of the Scouting program. By not following the program could you negatively effect the growth of the troop?" No, I don't think our small size has kept us from following the methods of program. In the course of the past few years I will admit that some methods have at times been more of our focus than others, but that was because of our efforts to change the culture of the Troop from adult-led (mandated) to boy-led. --"With such a small troop, setting restrictions for offices could severely hamstring the unit program. Scouts will possibly be in the same leadership position for YEARS until other scouts become eligible let alone interested in the jobs." I agree. The legacy of our Troop that I stepped into was that of age and rank restrictions for PORs, but those PORs were merely a patch on the sleeve with no real expectations for the job. Again, all activities, meetings, etc. were mandates from the SM. This was by far the most difficult culture to change in our Troop, but one in which I am pleased to see our progress. Yes, we had less success these past six months with our young PL than we had last year with our older Scout doing the job, but that is all a part of giving the boys the responsibility and consequences of their decisions. --"It would seem that just because other units set restrictions that does not mean it should be a priority in the troop you serve. Do the other troops have more than one patrol?" I don't think I ever said that restrictions were a priority in our Troop. I was asking the question to find out how other Troops handle PORs and about their experiences with younger Scouts in those PORs. We have various size ranges of Troops in our District. A couple that are quite large and have several patrols. Only judging by watching them at camporees and talking to the leaders at roundtable, I would say that neither of the large troops implements the patrol method in a way that you and others on this forum would find ideal. We have quite a few small troops that have nothing close to a patrol method - mostly the adults running the show.

I agree to a point with BobWhite about availability of technology at summer camp for adult leaders. Not as a lure for adults so that they can have all the comforts of home, but for those troops that find themselves with adults willing to spend a week at camp but cannot be completely out of touch with their jobs. Personally, I look forward to that week away from the world. A week to get away from ringing cell phones, clacking keyboards, and the glare of computer screens and watch the glare of the sun coming up. I look forward to a week of listening to bird songs in the morning and sounds of boys having a good time during the day, the lapping of water in the creeks, streams and lakes, and the ever-present tree frogs at night. --------------- Of course, if the leaders use their laptops and time in the lounge to post messages on Scouter....

BobWhite asks: "What exactly do the scouts in that troop think the role of an SPL is, and where did that get that idea from? How does an SPL "make" anyone do somthing? and What sort of things in that troop does he make them do?" Since our troop is very small we have been operating with only one patrol. In reality, what I have been referring to as SPL is really a PL, but the guys like the title SPL so that is what they call it. I can't read the boy's mind, but I imagine "make them do" refers to tasks on a campout duty roster. He has always been the kind of guy that finds a way to get out of work and was quite a challenge for former PL. So, since he wasn't the type to ever just pitch in and help and always had to be asked/told to do something, I figure he thought he was being bossed around and when it was his turn he'd do the same. I don't see this kind of attitude among the other Scouts in our Troop, so I don't think it is any kind of atmosphere or attitude we are fostering, just the personality of this Scout at this time. "As far as the topic of THIS thread goes...Do you agree that according to the BSA program...The PLC determines the qualifications for being an SPL and that the youth elect him, and the SPL slects all other youth ledership posions at the troop level. And that the Patrol determoines the PL requirements and elects the patrol leader, then the patrol leader selects all other patrol positions. And if you do agree then would you recommend to gwd-scouter to use that method?" I suppose you could find something I posted somewhere and argue that our Troop does not use that method, but I would disagree. My wording wasn't clear because I use the term SPL rather than PL which more clearly reflects the composition of our small one-patrol Troop. The purpose of my original post was to ask other members of the forum about the practice of setting age and/or rank requirements for PORs because, at least in my District, all the Troops set some sort of minimum standard.

Older son was asked a few months ago to be Chapter Advisor for the remainder of this year since the former advisor wasn't doing anything. Our Chapter Chief also hasn't been doing anything this year. At this week's chapter meeting, only members present were older son, younger son and another Scout. Very sad. Older son is trying to revive this Chapter, but it seems it will be quite a struggle. For years, our Chapter was very active with a large membership. The problem though was that the advisor, officers, and most of the membership all came from the mega-troop in town. Advisor was the SM, other adults were ASMs, and the youth officers were their sons. They ran the OA like an extension of their own troop which drove away boys from other Troops. I watch at summer camp year after year as a great number of boys from our District are called out for the OA. They do the ordeal, they get their pocket flap, and then are never seen except a few that attend the lodge fellowship campouts. Now, that Troop is not involved at all and there are lingering negative feelings about the Chapter among the other Troops in town. My sons and the other Scout at the meeting this week did go to one of the Troops in town to help them have their very first OA election ever. Seems the SM of that Troop had hard feelings about OA and actively discouraged it in his Troop. I guess older son helped change his mind. Have any of you experienced this in your OA chapters? If so, what was done to help turn it around?

Thanks all for your comments: Some good news. The two boys I mentioned that at the last minute dropped out of NYLT: the one boy whose mother didn't want him to go by himself is going after all. Talked to him and his mother last Monday and she confided in me that while she was nervous for him to be going by himself, she realized that pulling him out at the last minute would not help him learn to follow through on his commitments. So, he leaves today for NYLT. I think he will enjoy it and get a lot out of it. Got a call from the other Scout's mom. Said that he is still not going to NYLT or summer camp, but he has reconsidered dropping out of Scouts. Maybe both of those Scouts (and their moms) have been influenced by Scouting, maybe even by me. Don't know, but I have gotten over the idea that I have to "fall on my sword" every time something negative happens in our Troop. Well, at least for now. sst3rd writes: "I've finally realized that the word "committment" is not in a teenager's vocabulary." I'm not ready to give in to that yet. I've seen quite a few teenagers over the years that follow through on their commitments. In our case with this young SPL and our struggles these past six months, he did try early on. Unfortunately, he just wasn't mature enough to see beyond his own interests. EagleDad: "After several years, we figured out boys 13 and under do not like leadership because it takes them out of their comfort zone by taking them away from their friends (gang). We also learned that boys 13 and under learn the most about leadership and character by watching boys 14 and older lead. Scouting is a game and that translates to fun. Why make a boy do something that isn't fun when it fails in performance anyways?" We(I) sure learned that this past six months. It seems our small troop will always be going through growing pains. Haven't given up on the vision though - we get a bit closer, take a step backwards, move forward again. Even though we only have 10 Scouts and even though we went through a difficult past six months, all of our Scouts continue to show up each week for meetings, almost all of them are going to summer camp, and one guy just brought a couple of inactive Scouts from another Troop to our meeting last week to check us out. Did an Eagle Scout SM Conference last week. Young man is about to turn 18 and has been in our Troop since he crossed over from Webelos. He talked about why he became inactive for a couple of years because Scouts became boring, but then got excited again when he saw how the Troop was changing and the adults were stepping back to let the boys run the show. It never ceases to amaze me that just when I begin to despair over something happening in our Troop, something comes along to revive my spirits.

Just had an Eagle SM Conference last week. As BobWhite posted, by the time a Scout in our Troop is ready for Eagle Conference, I know the Scout very well and the things he has done along the way. I do ask questions, but ours is more of a friendly conversation. A lot depends on the Scout on how the direction of the conversation goes. Some have been more focused on the Scout's future plans. Some have reflected heavily on his Scouting years. During last week's conference, the Scout talked a lot about his time as SPL during a time that I was a relatively new SM and so we were both learning how to help our Troop move toward boy-led. He was SPL for a full year and had a lot to say about both the good and bad experiences. A few specific questions: I asked him about his early years in Scouting and about the middle years when he seemed to lose interest. That led him to talk about his school and sports activities in High School and how Scouts had become boring - doing the same thing all the time. So, then I asked him what it was that made him come back and run for SPL. That led to a discussion about the changes that were happening at that time in our Troop and the new crop of young Scouts. He said he felt a little uncomfortable being the oldest Scout in our Troop and was sorry that his friends didn't stick with it. He said he thought it was cool that we "let" them plan what they wanted to do and "let" them add more adventurous activities that Scouts became fun again. At the end of the conversation, I always ask our Eagle Scout candidates: if an 11-year-old boy knocked on your door and said he was thinking about joining Scouts, what would you tell him? The answers that have followed have very closely reflected the Scout's own experience in his journey to Eagle. Edit to add: I've yet to do a SM conference for a Scout that is not about to turn 18, so my experience is probably different than others.(This message has been edited by gwd-scouter)