gwd-scouter

"So for Star and Life (or even First Class), boys get the badge just by checking boxes and doin' the proverbial "How does the troop make you feel?" 10 minute BOR. The boys and parents learn and expect that yeh get awards by checkin' boxes, not by really developin' skills and character." Interestingly, I had a very similar discussion with a few of our scouts about this very thing just a few weeks ago. They were arguing about age and rank and how they are used a measure of a scouts abilities. "I'm better than you because I outrank you" kind of thing. I also talked about our Troop's advancement record when asked by a few of our new parents how many Eagles we had, how soon do our guys 'get' Eagle, how soon to First Class, etc. What it all boiled down to, both in my conversation with the Scouts and with the parents: I used some of Beavah's words, talked about getting checkmarks in a book. That's the easy part. The real test of character comes in how a Scout demonstrates the Oath and Law - THE rules in our Troop. Personal growth also plays a key role. No, I don't expect the same things from a guy advancing to Tenderfoot as I do a Life Scout. But, those expectations do get progressively higher. Maybe a key thing is that I have SM Conferences with the guys all the time, they just don't know it. Anytime I see an opportunity for a teaching moment. The boys and the parents know I have high expectations. Yes, I've had my share of angry parent phone calls, but in the end it all works out. You know, one of my favorite movie lines is from A Few Good Men: "You don't have to have a patch on your sleeve to have honor."

What a fantastic campout! It would take a very long post to describe all the things that went right this weekend, so I'll suffice to say that our junior leaders had everything under control. My husband and I spent time with the new parents. When we arrived the new Scouts all scattered and took off down to the Lake. I could see some concern on the parents' faces, and frustration on our Troop Guides and SPL. One Troop Guide headed down to the lake and rounded 'em all up. Then the work began setting up. I made a comment to the parents that watched the fiasco that ensued while the new guys were learning how to set up camp: What to the untrained eye may look like chaos, is really the boy-led troop in action. They are all learning, next time it will go smoother. My son overheard that and laughed about it on the ride home - "That's one of the best things you've ever said, Mom." One of our new ASMs demonstrated his "Webelos Leader to Boy Scout Leader transition training device" - take right hand out of pocket, peel back the protective cover, place hand over mouth. Hilarious! The thing I noticed the most was that none of those new guys spent any amount of time with his parent. Sure, once in a while a guy would come up to his parent and ask about something. To their credit, every single one of those new parents was heard to say "go ask your Patrol Leader." Everyone was all smiles when we arrived home. So many compliments given by the new adults. They were really impressed with our junior leaders and (displaying an uncharacteristic lack of modesty) my husband and me. They stated they can see that they made the right choice in which troop to join. I am so excited about the upcoming year. I may have two sons, but now I have 20 boys!

Love the origami bowls!

Yikes, what a crowd! In the course of a week, we went from a Troop of 10 boys, 2 ASMs and a few Committee folks to 21 boys, 6 ASMs, 6 Committee Members, and parents that just want to help out. Several have sent me emails about merit badges they'd like to sign up to counsel. A typical campout for us was 2-3 adults and 8-10 boys. We are fortunate that we always have 100% participation or close to it at meetings and campouts. This weekend's trip is no exception. Eighteen boys and 10 adults. Good grief. Thrilled about the number of boys, but the adult roster is just too much. I'm hoping that it is because this is the first campout for the new guys and the parents want to come along to see what happens. I am looking forward to this weekend, though. Since we've been so small, the guys only set up one dining hut. Adults used one end, the scouts the other. This campout, our one mixed age patrol (Dynamite) will make their own dining hut and camp away from the rest of us. Patrol Leader is a bit nervous, but he will do just fine. He called my son yesterday to get some advice on his patrol's menu and plans for Saturday activities. The guys will have a PLC meeting Friday at the campsite after everything is set up to go over the activities for Saturday. Great idea! The new Scouts and their Troop Guides (Swat and Extreme patrols) will use our large existing quonset hut. We had assigned a Patrol Leader and Troop Guide to the 11 new Scouts, but the two older boys decided it would be easier to manage if they split the group into two. They made one menu, but each patrol will cook for itself. That way, they figured, it would be easier for the new guys and all of them would have a turn on the duty roster to cook and clean. This is all just so fantastic! Our guys know what they're doing and that will leave plenty of time for me to sit and chat with the new adults, help them in their transition from Cub Scout Leaders to Boy Scout Leaders - you know, teach them the three pan cleaning technique. I can't wait. Oh yeah, all those new guys signed up for summer camp too. Fortunately, three of our older scouts are doing the high adventure program and won't be camping with us. Great news, since the campsite we reserved is not big enough for our sudden growth.

By the way, John-in-KC, thanks for the video. Wonderful early morning laugh - although I don't much care for cleaning up the coffee I spewed out of my nose!!

Our DE picks up the packet from Council office and brings it to the SMs.

Having seen the cute Cub Scout photos on Facebook, I was wondering who else among the forum folks was a Scout in his/her youth. I was a Girl Scout for a couple of years. Older brother was in Boy Scouts and I was jealous of his adventures. I grew up with three brothers, so I was a tom boy all the way. Man, was I disappointed. Girl Scouts, at least back in the 60s, was nothing like Boy Scouts. Yeah, seriously, how much camping do you think we did wearing dresses??? Good news is, a few decades later I finally got to be a Boy Scout!

Why, thank you gentlemen. SR540Beaver and Packsaddle are lookin' awfully cute as Cub Scouts.

I don't know about the Lodge as a whole, but our Chapter always sends an election team out some time in the late spring, before our Troops start going to summer camp. I am not in the OA so I don't know what happens with the sheet after I sign it verifying those boys that have been elected. When we get to camp I always have to go find a Lodge person and make sure I write down our guys' names for the Call Out on Wednesday. Seems pretty odd to me.

Hopefully, we will all also remember that Eagle isn't the finish line or even the goal/purpose of the program.

The troops in our District have all kinds of practices. Some hold back advancement, retest the scouts on every SM conference and BOR; others are advancement mills; ours does it right - sorry, couldn't resist. One of our new ASMs (just crossed over from Webelos) told me about his visit to one of the other Troops. He said the SM was talking about their attendance policy. Scouts in that troop cannot advance to the next rank unless they have a certain percentage of meetings and outings within one year of advancement. The reason the SM gave for the policy is that in that past they've had older Scouts drift away for a while and then come back to get Eagle. The policy is to force those boys to become active to earn their Eagle. New ASM didn't like that policy much as his son plays baseball and will have to balance that and Scouts. He picked our troop because we have no attendance policy. Scouts advance according to their own commitment. The program to advance is there, a Scout can advance quickly or slowly - it's all up to him. We have another Troop in town that seems to churn out a lot of young Eagles (13 and 14 years old). Sad part is that Troop loses those guys early - get Eagle and get out seems to be the norm. Then we have a Troop that I very much admire. Not a big Troop, but very active. Boy led all the way. They don't have a big trailer of equipment, they backpack for everything. The SM is a laid back kind of guy that's been the SM forever. Older boys and younger boys. Just about every year this Troop produces an Eagle, but always an older Scout. The OA guys in that Troop are very active in the chapter and lodge. I have learned a lot from this SM. Talk to him at roundtables and at camporees. The guys in his Troop enjoy being Boy Scouts and for the most part stay active until 18 - Eagle or not.

It seems for the most part that the threads that go off topic have usually answered the initial question in the first couple of posts. I will have to admit to occasionally going off topic myself. Sorry 'bout that folks. My mind does tend to meander.

Thank to all of you that have invited me to be a friend on Facebook. It's nice to put a face to the screen names.

This is a tough one. For the past couple of years our boy led troop had trouble attracting Webelos. Mostly due to concerns from parents that what they saw as chaos was a boy led troop doing it's thing. Not the neatly organized, overly structured, Den meeting. We basically competed against the big troop (bigger is better) and the adult led troop (those guys really advance fast). There are several other small troops in our District, but the Dens that came to visit us never mentioned visiting those others. I take responsibility for our past struggles because I didn't realize how important it was to make sure the parents understood what we were doing and the big difference between Boy Scouting and Cub Scouting. Gunny has it right about multiple contacts with the Webelos. For the past year or so, we really made a push for ours. We invited dens from three different packs on more than one campout and to several meetings. Day hike coming up, why not ask the Webelos to come? I kept in close touch with the Den Leaders and Cub Masters, always making sure to chat with them at roundtables when I saw them. Most of all, I was honest with the adult visitors. Many asked how fast their son could earn First Class. A common question believe it or not. That gave me the chance to explain that advancement is but one method, we work hard at delivering them all. Our program is not advancement driven, but advancement happens as a result of our program. This year I feel I finally got into the groove of talking about our Troop in a way that Cub parents and leaders can understand. Still, we didn't get all the Webelos that visited us. Some were looking for the quick advancement or more organized adult-led troop, and others still thought bigger had to be better. That's OK. Must have worked. Out of 20 Webelos that visited us over the last year, we had 11 cross over last week (4 from one pack, 6 from another, and 1 that never visited us but heard we were a good troop). I never asked, but the most common reasons I was given as to why these boys/parents picked our troop was that they like how respectful the adults were to the boys and the boys to the adults, how the boys ran things (even when they didn't do a good job), how we encouraged them when they failed, and, most importantly, their Webelos really liked our guys (those guys were fun, I liked those guys). Past Monday was the first meeting for all the new Scouts. Almost all of the parents showed up too. About mid-way through the meeting, we adults were all standing outside talking when from around the back of our Scout hut comes our two Troop Guides followed in line by eleven smiling fifth graders. Older boys in charge of the younger boys. Off to join our mixed-age patrol for a game. Two of our older Scouts wanted to work with the new guys and asked to be Troop Guides. Since we got eleven, they decided to split the group into two to make it a little easier to work with them. We have a campout coming up this weekend and every one of those new Scouts is going. For their very first Scout meeting, they worked on a menu, came up with patrol names and cheers and will be making flags during the campout. All this happened without any adults around - we were all standing on the porch of the Scout Hut. When we circled up to close, the two new scout patrols gave their patrol names and cheer. Oh what a happy bunch. Very cool. I could see the adults were pleased. At the end of the meeting, several parents came up to me and said they could see they made the right choice. Was it something I said, or something the boys did?

We just enrolled 11 new Scouts to our Troop. We had only 9 guys to start with. Three of our guys are in the OA. Four will be eligible for election this year. We are having our elections in May and I'm wondering about all those new guys voting. Being in a new scout patrol that is headed up by two of our OA guys, the new scouts won't really know the four eligible scouts very well. Presumably they don't know anything about the OA either. I'm hopeful that the presentation the election team gives will be helpful, but I wonder... How could the new scouts vote for a guy without knowing him?

KurtB - I can't say if that practice is normal or not. I know some Troops in our area that seem to plan their outings only one month in advance. Others may post a calendar of monthly campouts and activities, but the dates aren't set until a couple of months or a month ahead. For instance, March may show "Backpacking Trip," but no dates. Just a general theme. Our Troop has an annual planning weekend every September. That way, the District and Council calendars are already out so the guys can plan around Camporees, OA weekends, etc. We bring school calendars too so that they are aware of spring break and holiday weekends. They plan for a full year, one campout/outing a month. The dates are set and generally fall every four weeks. The calendar is then posted on our Troop website. Every now and then we post the theme for the outing for the month with the date To Be Announced. A good example of this is snow skiing. The guys pick the month to go, but we've had to move the dates because of lack of snowfall at the resort they picked. A problem here in the South! We do on occasion add to the calendar with events that sort of spring up, for instance if we find out about a service project opportunity. Or, perhaps a couple of our guys are still in need of a five mile compass hike we may plan a day hike just for them. The yearly calendar always includes campout opportunities for Webelos, both in the fall and the spring. Sometimes we have Webelos along, sometimes not. The guys still go camping either way. Maybe your troop plans only six months in advance because of difficulty securing adult leaders?

Kahits, you haven't posted in a while - good to see you're still around and I hope things are going well with your troop. Life BOR is much the same as any other BOR - asking questions about what the candidate did to get to that rank. However, the further a scout goes along the advancement trail, the longer the BOR will be and the more in depth the questions. For instance, a Tenderfoot Scout may be asked what kind of knots he learned. The First Class Scout what kind of knots and lashings he used to build a camp gadget. The Life Scout who may have earned pioneering merit badge about his experiences earning that badge. BOR members will/should ask questions about what the candidate did in his POR, what kind of service projects he did, what merit badges he did to earn Life and what he thought of them. Like any BOR, it shouldn't be a retest of the Scout's skills, but a conversation. I like to think of the BOR as an interview. Like any other BOR, the candidate may be asked about his participation in the Troop. What kind of trips did he go on? What did he like/dislike. Is there anything that could be improved in the Troop? What can he do to make those improvements? Questions should also include the candidate's goals for his next rank. In this case, Eagle. Does he have any ideas yet on a project? Does he have a preference for a POR? What merit badges must he complete and what are his plans to do that? In our Troop, the Life BOR always includes a discussion on the Life to Eagle process. Questions may also be dependent on the age of the Scout. For example, an 11th grader sitting for a Life BOR may be asked if he has a job, how he balances the demands of his job, school, scouts, and other activities. Finally, many questions arise during a BOR based on answers the scouts has given to a previous question. It can, and probably should, be a free flowing conversation. As I said, more of an interview - not an inquisition.

Last Monday, we participated in the crossing of four Webleos Scouts to our Troop. Yesterday afternoon, our guys did the crossing ceremony for six more from a different Pack. Ten new Scouts eager to start - first meeting tonight and campout this weekend. Wonderful! Last Monday's crossing was planned and run by the Pack. Our guys were there only to put on new neckerchiefs. Yesterday's Pack leaders wanted us to plan and conduct the ceremony ourselves. The guys did a great job, using the Scout Law as the theme. I started it out by asking the Webelos and parents to come up. Parents removed Webelos neckerchief and hats, then the parents and I sat down and the boys took over. I was very proud of them. The best part was the compliments our guys got after. Several parents and leaders came up to me and commented on how great it was that the boys did the ceremony. "It's nice to see some troops are still letting the boys be in charge," was one comment I heard from an Eagle Scout/parent/cub leader. He talked about when he was a Scout in one of our District's Troops and how his Scoutmaster meant it when he talked about boy-led. He added that it was sad to see so many troops just don't do that anymore. So, the moment has arrived that our guys have worked toward and trained for. Ten new Scouts for our guys to work with, teach, mentor and train. Ten new Scouts who one day will be conducting a crossover ceremony for "their" new Scouts. Good times.

Lovely and touching story. Thanks for sharing.

slide rule, Pack? What, no abacus? sorry, couldn't resist.

I strongly discourage taking siblings along on an outing. It's really nothing more than babysitting and that is not what Scouting is about. Sure, you can tell parents that they will have to supervise the sibling and not get in the Scouts' way. Really folks, can you actually see that happening? What I envision is younger brother running around, harassing his older brother, wanting to do what the older guys are doing, perhaps causing a safety issue. The only time we allow siblings along on trips is when we go snow skiing. A very popular outing and having parents and sibs along doesn't disrupt anything really. Fun for the whole family and we don't have a problem with that. We have had prospective scouts and brothers who are Webelos come along on other outings, but those have been our more car camping trips where specific preparation and experience isn't necessary (i.e., water trips, backpacking, etc.). I will say we have never had a time when we had to rely on a parent to come on a trip as our second adult, so the prospect of Dad bringing younger brother along because he had to hasn't been an issue.

Our guys had a great weekend backpacking. Saturday morning, our three experienced Scouts were dropped off to begin their 10 mile hike to their campsite. The adults and four less experienced Scouts took a different trail - about 3 miles - to their campsite. The two campsites were about 1/4 mile from each other. About 5:00 pm, the older guys arrived at their campsite and set up. Adults and other scouts joined them for a campfire Saturday night, then headed back to their own site. Sunday morning, older guys packed up, hiked down to the other campsite where everyone had a worship service. Then all hiked the 3 miles out to the parking lot and headed home. Fantastic weekend for all.

I saw our guys off on their backing trip yesterday. One Scout showed up in his brand new centennial uniform. The guys don't wear the official uniform when backpacking, but he was so proud of his. He told me he was going to test out the tech pocket. Had his Ipod in there already. After he said that, he looked at me very seriously and said, "I won't use it while we're hiking, gotta stay alert, just gonna use it in the car." Nice.

Packsaddle - thanks for the offer, but I don't really need to know the content of the posts.

My husband served in the Navy. After he watched "Taking Chance" he told me about standing watch over a deceased naval officer who wished to be buried at sea. He didn't know what took place before, but the casket was never left alone while on board.