gwd-scouter

Three weeks from concept to completion for an Eagle project? Sounds impossible to me. I can only speak for the guys in our Troop, but the shortest time from concept to completion was six weeks. That was years ago and I wasn't directly involved in it, but I do remember the adult leaders and his parents really scrambled and worked hard to get the boy through. A more realistic time frame in our Troop has been 2-3 months. Patrick is meeting this evening with our town's Railroad Museum Director to get completion of project signature. That will make it five months from when Patrick first met with the Director to look at possibilities for projects. Probably could have finished sooner, but about a week after he got his initial approval from the Director and OK from our District Advancement Chair, several members of the museum's Board of Directors wanted to talk to Patrick as well, and then wanted him to change his project to one they thought was in more urgent need. In Patrick's case, I am very glad he wasn't only weeks away from turning 18.

"...to require them to actually make a flag in order to meet the requirements would only lead to frustration." Why? We have two new scout patrols. A couple of weeks ago they designed their flags - each guy wrote out on paper what he thought was a good idea and the Scouts picked which they liked best. Last week they were given cloth, markers, and paint and made their flags. Sure looked like they were having a good time. Along the way they learned a bit about sharing ideas and teamwork. Plus, what a bonus, they'll have an actual flag to bring to the upcoming Council Exporee. I think we do a great disservice to our Scouts when we read the requirements like lawyers.

fgoodwin - it may depend on when the pack rechartered those Scouts and when they crossover to your troop. An example: In our Council, unit recharters are due in February. We have Packs that cross their Webelos over in February, before they send in their recharter, and therefore don't reregister them. It is then up to the receiving Troop to get those boys on their charter and will need to pay the full registration fee. Then again, some Packs don't do crossovers until April or May. Those guys would be $1 transfers. The guys that just crossed over to our Troop came from two packs. One, kept the guys on the charter because they didn't cross over until April. We just sent in the $1 transfer on those guys. The other group crossed in the end of March. I was going to send in the $1 transfer for them as well, but found out their Pack never registered them with their rechartering in February, so we paid the full registration.

Leader or boss = other people's perception. When they agree with you, they think of you as a leader. When they don't, you'll probably be considered a boss.

Cleaning a dutch oven is easy and STM gave some good tips. I disagree about oiling of the oven after it's used before you store it. To me, it leaves a rancid oil taste in anything that's cooked. Our ovens are cleaned with hot water and a rubber spatula or plastic scrubby used to scrape the sides, rinsed with clean water, dried thoroughly, and put away without oiling. Fifteen years and not a spot of rust yet. Also, remember to never use soap in a cast iron dutch oven! Cast iron is porous and the metal will absorb the taste of the soap.

Wow, I've been called an ingenue and couth - both in the same day. OK, maybe it's time to slap on that mean streak I keep on hand.

I'm kind of a stickler for flag decorum as well. One thing I would have done differently in this situation though is not get up and move the flag while the meeting was going on. A word to the Committee Chair after the meeting would have been a better approach.

Hmmm. While the requirement does indeed say describe your patrol flag, I certainly take that to mean that if the boys are put in a new patrol, then they actually make a flag - out of cloth - and not just draw a design on paper. Now, if the guys go right into an existing patrol that has a flag, then they only need to describe the existing flag. Actually, I've never heard anyone ever ask this before. Anyone else have this come up?

He hasn't sent me the list yet, so I don't know what merit badges the scout is taking. Hopefully, they will at least be fun, appropriate for his age and skills, and not a whole bunch of Eagle-requireds. Not my call, though. It won't impact our troop whether this new scout does the pathfinder program or merit badges. My concern was just that he will be on his own for his first year and I just thought he'd have a better time if he was with all our new guys.

Well, I have spoken with SM. He doesn't like the pathfinder program at our camp and so all the scouts in his troop do merit badges - even first years. He told me that this scout going with us would be too far behind the other guys if he did pathfinder program with our new guys. As he put it, the new guys are very competitive and it wouldn't be fair for him to come back from camp without the same and same number of badges as the other new scouts.

Woo hoo hoo, ha ha ha ha, hee hee hee - ingenou-esque? That's a new one. Oh, but those green shorts and red-top socks do SOOO much for me!

And I always thought the folks wanted me along because of my conversational repartee and sparkling personality. Now I find out it's just 'cause I make the coffee. Rats!

We have a whole bunch of new scout parents and most are eager to work as ASMs in our Troop. No problem there as I've met with them many times and they all seem to understand how our Troop operates. All are committed to go to training, some have already started even before they signed up at crossover. Then again, there's this one Mom. Her son joined the Troop about a year and a half ago. She signed up too as an ASM. She went to training. OK so far. Problem was, whenever she went on a campout she started to boss around a couple of our youth leaders. She most definitely did not like the way they did certain things - mostly when it came time to break camp and get ready to go home. Admittedly these guys always take too long. And, there is one particular Scout in our Troop she really dislikes. Her son doesn't like him either so that doesn't help. I could see the reaction our Scouts had to her. Not outright disrespect, but one could tell from watching that they were tuning her out. Also, she was not at all fair in doling out criticism. The PL for her son has a problem. Her son is one of those that always has a reason why he can't do any work (I'm not feeling well, I have a headache, etc.). But, if PL had harsh words for her son, it was the PL being nasty - not her son being lazy. The last campout she went on, the guys were taking their usual long time to break camp. After everything was stored they set up their line to check the area for trash. This woman sat in her lawn chair reading a book - right in the middle and the guys had to walk around her. Amazing! She and I talked. I suggested that perhaps a position on the Committee might be a better place for her. I mentioned that I could tell she was really frustrated watching the messier parts of a boy-led Troop and she agreed. She is now our Committee Chair and doing a great job with it. I've been watching all our new Scouts and already have a pretty good handle on their personalities. As something of a boast, I would say that one of my strengths as SM is the ability to get to know each scout individually and figure out what may best motivate him when he needs it (knowing that one size does not fit all). Like Lisabob posts - some guys respond to a sharp word, others become defiant, and so on. I use that insight to help other leaders and our youth leaders to figure out how to work with the scouts they may be having a problem with.

I am a very early riser. I get the coffee started and that usually wakes the other adults. 7:00 am seems to be the norm for our Troop.

ordealarrowman - welcome to the forum and good for you for asking how to get your patrol to expand their campout menu. By requirements, I'm assuming you mean the balanced meal part? Fairly easy to get the fruits and veggies in - they don't have to be cooked necessarily. Bananas with breakfast. A bag of apples for snacking? Applesauce with dinner. Veggies? Make a salad. Raw carrots to munch on before dinner is ready. Do your guys put orange juice and milk on the menu? Cooking a stew or similar one-pot meal is an easy cleanup and will incorporate the food groups. Just Google camp food and you'll get ideas. One meal our guys are very fond of is dorrito casserole. It can be cooked either stove top or in a dutch oven. Tomatoes and corn are part of the ingredients. Cheese, too - check off dairy. kbandit's suggestion to get a dutch oven cookbook is spot on. Our guys have finally embraced the dutch oven and use it all the time. Don't have to stand around a stove stirring the pot and so easy to clean!

We are taking a new scout from a different troop to summer camp with us. He can't go when they are going, so SM suggested to Mom that he could go with another. The scout told her he remembered having a good time when he camped and visited our troop, so he's signed up to go. I emailed her about our camp's pathfinder program - a first year camper program for new scouts. All of our new scouts will be in that program. She wrote back stating that their SM said the scout will have already earned Tenderfoot by the time camp rolls around, so he doesn't want the scout to do pathfinder and wants the scout to do merit badges instead. Almost all of our new scouts will have earned Tenderfoot, too, but I still encourage them to do pathfinder. It's much much more than just a Tenderfoot program. Personally, I think the scout will have a better time if he gets to hang with all our new scouts, but I will go with SM and Mom's wishes. Here's the thing. In Mom's email she also mentioned that the SM will send me a schedule of what he wants the scout to take. What? The SM is making the scout's schedule? This Troop is sometimes derisively called the Webelos III Troop, but I think the SM telling the scouts what merit badges to take is really over the top.

I don't have any specific advice, but removing her from the charter will not remove her from activities. If her son is still in the Pack, she can attend as a parent.

Rayburn - in answer to your question: I am SM for our Troop and I am not in the OA. It's a personal decision, I've been asked several times. In our District, the election team just asks the SM if an adult member has been elected. Troop Committee elects the adult member. At least in our Troop it is not a secret election. This year, Committee asked two adults to consider joining the OA - me (SM) and my husband (ASM). Husband will go through the ordeal at summer camp in June.

The BOGO sale at Scoutstuff is a pretty good deal. Bought some shorts and socks for the family. Our Troop is taking advantage of the sale, too. Parents last night got together and made up an order. A guy can always use an extra pair of shorts and extra socks at camp, so why not? Most ordered a 2nd pair of switchbacks, too. We have a lot of new Scouts and the parents were eager to pick up the merit badge sash for half price (two parents order, one is free, parents split cost of one). No one seemed overly concerned that the sash, for instance, is not the same color as the Centennial Sash. I, for one, prefer the old style shorts. I don't like where the zippers in the switchbacks hit my knees. I'll be wearing the old shorts for a long long time.

Twocubdad - your statement about boys marking their territory gave me a chuckle this morning. I envision young boys running around the woods, peeing on the trees. This is MY territory! Like all the threads on this forum, we've read two divergent opinions about the oversleeping scout. One Scouter would sit and watch and let the boys face the consequences of being late for whatever - it's their program. Another sees a different consequence, that of angry parents when the troop returns late, and would step in at some point and get the guys moving. For a while, I took the hands off approach. We indeed arrived home late from several campouts in a row. The boys called home while we're on the road to give their parents our new EOA. Problem was some parents started to wait until we called from the parking lot to come get their sons. The parents go used to us being late, so they figured there was no need to come until they were called. Our late arrival was discourteous to the parents. I got tired of having to wait around with Johnny Scout until his parents came to get him - sometimes quite a long time because parents decided to go out to lunch, to a movie, whatever, to kill some time. So, yeah, adult intervention does take place when the guys are seriously running off schedule. OK, slap my hand, bad Scouter, bad bad Scouter.

Definitely talk to your SM. He will know of other troops in your area and can find out when those troops are going to camp. Chances are your son will probably know some of the scouts in another Troop, which will make him feel more comfortable about going.

Barry - super sleepy, maybe. Just curious jblake, but why is PL of Patrol B telling anyone in patrol A what to do? I remember reading other posts where you state your PLs are older Scouts. How old is the PL of the new Scout patrol (Patrol B)? Reason I ask is that, at least in my experience, there is a big difference between a 15 or 16 year old working with new Scouts and a 12-13 year old dealing with scouts his own age or older. Again, just curious. I notice in our Troop the new guys in our new scout patrols will do anything and hang on every word of their older more experienced patrol leader. The guys in our mixed age patrol of 11-14 year olds, now being led by a 13 year old, mostly ignore him. You are correct that the balance can shift. Not so sure that one act of not standing your ground as you put it will totally destroy the boy-led method you have so successfully created. In any case, I would have told Dad the same thing. The guys didn't prepare a dessert, they don't get to participate. Seems reasonable to me. Of course, in our Troop, most of our guys are just a bit more friendly and courteous and most likely would have invited the dessert-less patrol over after everyone else had gotten theirs. But I go back to your young inexperienced APL and your (presumably) older Scout PL of the new Scout patrol. No problems in our new Scouts patrols. As I said, the guys hang on everything the PLs say. But, with our 13 year old PL who is struggling to get cooperation from his five patrol mates, I don't think my helping this boy develop leadership skills is in any way shifting the balance. I certainly am not going to let him just hang out there to fail over and over again. Not fair to him, not fair to the boys in his patrol.

I've come back to this thread because like most Scout troops ours is changing again. We have three older, experienced, scouts - ages 16 and 17. For the past couple of years they have been the driving force behind our Troop. They learned over the years and now I would trust them to run a meeting or even a weekend outing without any adults around at all. Well, at least I would have before we got our recent influx of 12 new Scouts. The guys are a little overwhelmed. They have taken it on themselves to make sure that we don't lose one of these new Scouts. Oh yes, they have much pride in their troop. They want to make sure that our next wave of junior leaders steps up and takes control in the next year, and they have some concerns. Several years ago when I stepped up as SM, it was for a completely adult-led - "mandated" to use a word in this thread - troop. PORs were a patch on the sleeve. Time to turn that around. I got absolutely no buy in from the older scouts or even the adults and recruiting had been almost nonexistent. Recruiting continued to be difficult. Eventually all those legacy Scouts aged out or transferred to other Troops and I began with a very small very young Troop. That is the troop in which our three older Scouts were trained. So we set forth to become boy-led. Yes indeed, I will admit that training was based on MY vision of what I wanted our Troop to be. I communicated that vision often to both the boys and the adults. Back then these guys were 12 and 13 and tasked with learning how to take charge of things. In other words, become owners of their Troop. It was, at best, difficult. Slowly, over the years the 'mandates' diminished and those 12 and 13 year olds began to come up with their own ideas. They started saying things like, 'yeah, remember when we tried that last time and it didn't work'. Good stuff. Now, here we are, with 12 brand new Scouts and a whole bunch of new parents and leaders. Older guys are working hard (and pretty well) at leading these new Scouts. My job is to help the adults get over their Webelos mind set. Working pretty well so far. We have a slight deficit in experience and leadership among the boys, though. Older three are 16 and 17, then the next wave of junior leaders (except for one 14 year old) in training are 13 and below. A result of our poor recruiting for a couple of years. I see the older guys preparing to turn over the keys to the next generation. That next generation needs some help, just as I remember these three older guys needed help. Barry posts often about how an average 13 year old just doesn't want to be put in a position of leadership. Based on experience, I can say that's true. Last week one of our 13 year olds stated "I don't ever want to be SPL." He's a real scouty Scout, shows up for everything and takes the whole Scout Spirit thing very seriously. But, he's young still and sees for himself that he is not ready for leadership. I imagine he'll change his mind eventually about being a PL or SPL. Last month, we more than doubled in size. At the moment we have one mixed-age patrol led (so far not very well) by a 13 year old patrol leader, and two new Scout patrols led by our two 16 year olds. In September we will have elections and the guys will form into two mixed-age patrols - maybe three, but the guys are still thinking about it. The three older Scouts do not want to be patrol leaders. They think it's time for the next generation to step up. One has expressed his desire to be the SPL. The other two want to be JASMs and perhaps one each be assigned as an advisor to the patrols. Sounds like a good idea to me. For the past year things rolled along very well in our Troop. We had only nine boys and they for the most part got along well and handled things on their own. Husband commented to me about how easy it was for the adults. I tended to agree. The Scouts grew up together in our Troop and knew the way of things. Now they have a large group of new Scouts to work with and I see our junior leaders getting frustrated and overwhelmed. Should I just sit back and watch or step in and counsel those guys? I think my job is to help them in this transition. As I've posted, with the sudden influx of new Scouts, the soon aging out of our three experienced Scouts, and the mantle of leadership being handed to our crop of 13 year olds, things have changed. Maybe this is the tipping point being asked about in this thread. I have become busier these days and see the necessity of more guidance from me - working with our older Scouts in helping to guide the younger guys in responsibility. A recent example: PLC wants to put up a fairly elaborate gateway at our upcoming Council Camporee. They decided that everyone would work on lashing at last week's meeting. Given the fact that most of the new Scouts haven't even mastered the tenderfoot knots, I didn't think it was a great idea. But, it was their idea. Talking with the guys afterwards I asked if they intended to have 21 guys helping to put up the gateway. Hmmm, no, they said. PL of the mixed age patrol said his patrol was actually going to be in charge of the gateway. Great! Then, why, I asked, were you guys working on lashings with the new Scouts instead of some of their Tenderfoot requirements? This whole new Scout patrol is new to them and that question got them thinking. Still, I wouldn't say we are tipping toward adult-led. Of course, other opinions may vary. (This message has been edited by gwd-scouter)

Scouts wake up their patrol members. SM or assistant wakes up the SPL. He then wakes the PLs. It's up to the PLs to make sure their guys are up and ready to go. The night before, PLs remind those cooking breakfast that they must get up first, especially if they're planning something in a dutch oven. Cinnamon rolls are a very popular breakfast and it's taken some time to get these boys to understand that it takes much longer than just rolling out of the bag, starting up the stove, and cooking eggs. We still have issues with this but it's getting better. We have two guys in particular that are always the last to get up. It's much worse when they tent together. New PL's solution on a recent campout was to pull out their tent stakes and tent poles and let the tent drop on them. Led to an interesting roses and thorns session. Ah, they're still learning.

Ah yes, homesickness and the cell phone. Happens even with older Scouts. Last summer my son's friend went to work as a CIT at camp - he had just turned 15. He and my son were not housed together in staff cabins, which would probably have helped the situation. Scout is rather shy and quiet with strangers - even boys his own age. He was on the receiving end of several 'new staff' pranks. Also, being shy, he tended to keep to himself. His first week was miserable as he reported to his Mom. Turns out he was also calling home every day, sometimes more than once, to talk to his Mom. Mom called me on Wednesday of the first week telling me the 'horror' stories of what was going on with her son. Asked me if it was normal, did Patrick go through it his first year, etc. It all sounded like the normal camp staff stuff to me and that's what I told her. She and I are good friends and I did mentioned that sending him to camp with a cell phone was a terrible idea. He called her on Thursday of that first week and told her he was coming home for the weekend and not returning to work the remainder of the summer. Well, his cell phone battery died, no place to recharge, with a lot of coaxing from my son and without having his tether to Mom, he got over his homesickness, worked the whole summer and is signed up again to work this summer.