Gunny2862

Have EITHER of them been to any/all of their Training for their positions?

And it's not just attending events... there are plenty of opportunities for dad to be involved by finding out form the Den Leader whats coming up at the next meeting and then if Dad can just spend some time talking to the Scout about the next activity or helping him with a project(i.e. Pinewood Derby car) there are a lot of ways for him to be involved w/o going to the regular meetings. But please do try to make the majors the others have listed and as was suggested check with the Cubmaster and Den Leader about any other "biggies".

I kind of like the crossover Buffalo Skipper describes as long as there is some kind of ceremony at the campfire for the Webelos to crossover into Scouting. I think it's a neat idea.

I work with/for the SPL and the PLC. The IH can fire me but to date I haven't really done much work FOR him. The CO likes having us as a status symbol but doesn't really support us. I think I serve the Scouts and by extension the Troop. If I weren't serving the Scouts I don't think I'd be Scouting. I don't think it will matter all that much when the current Scouts move on, because I'll still be serving the Scouts - to include when the day comes that the next fellow can bring more to the table as the SM, even stepping down will be serving the Scouts.

If the situation is advantageous to the Scout our Troop will certainly take them in at any time of the year -it's better than having them not join any Troop. Getting them as a Group or getting them in "dribs and drabs" is immaterial to me. As to maturity, I can deal with the Scout(he'll grow) it's the "Heli Mom" that gets me. We incorporate them into existing Patrols rather than utilizing a New Scout Patrol, at some point in the near future we may need to open up a new Patrol but it will be in addition to our "Legacy" Patrols. Of course they can choose to be with a special friend or two but by and large they want to be exposed to the "Big Scouts" and not hang with their former Webelos clique. At least so far. The existing Scouts have decreed that they do not like having a new Scout Patrol, that they think it detracts from their opportunity to share with the younger Scouts and to help them to advance. In the current situation it is an informal competition between the existing Patrols to see which Patrol can teach its newer Scouts to competency, not just exposure,so they can win a Patrol competitions; and the more they know(the further they advance) the more value the new Scout is to his Patrol. Having a New Scout Patrol in this situation is tantamount to having a whipping boy if they are allowed to compete or a second class citizen if they are not allowed to do the competitions. edit follows. I do not, however, think Webelos should cross over before they have had the opportunity to complete their Arrow of Light but do think they should be allowed to cross over at any time of year after completing it rather than having to wait half a year or more.(This message has been edited by Gunny2862)

I'll take a Scout who is at the the minimum age allowed at any time of the year, just leave the "Heli Mom" behind. The Scout I can deal with...

I have no idea where the whole thing came from. I cast around trying to find material. But the basics are in my post above, you should be able to create your own off of those bones. The whole idea is there.

There is a SM minute about what backs a Dollar bill( the trust we put in the credit of the Government that backs it) and the trust we put in the various Rank Badges( that the Scout ACTUALLY did the work and KNOWS what the badges says the Scout knows. We had some visiting Webelos on the night I used it(thank you again whomever provided it)and both they and their parents thought it was really good.

With only the two data points the equation looks a little hard to pin down but would most likely be D. Of course the government post in question still needs to be quantified somehow... Why is it that these officials (or official wanna be's) are getting a pass on this issue?

I am a little bit amazed by the reported difficulties. I think I did it in about 25- 35 minutes, couldn't tell you a number of "months", but the key to the thing was to READ the qualifications and THINK about whom you were putting where and to start by shifting people already on committees while recruiting new ones. Thankfully I'm not doing this in real life and only did the course for fun. Because, IMHO, the people who have to do this for real have a much bigger job than what was presented by the course because real people are much more complex than the characters they gave us to work with... For those of you who are doing this in the real world, THANK YOU!

I would like to say it doesn't happen, but to do that I'd have to lie. There is clear cutting going on and it's probably in more locations than many of us realize. A patch on a local property was clear cut for cash(less than 5% of the property), there was some outcry, it has stopped for now. I am for sustainable management, a tree here a tree there, I believe it's better than allowing them to simply overgrow an area until their own numbers weaken them as a "community". Or until nature destructively manages it for us. It also allows for stronger growth which can protect the trees from ice damage. Some salvage logging is a good thing but the trick is to have an arborist in to identify those trees that may recover and not simply cover clear cutting by calling it salvage clearing. And IF one does clear cut a strip; then there should be a marked purpose, i.e. a fire road, boundary marking to assist Scouts from straying from the property, OR there should be some immediacy towards replanting a strip that was (in fact) cut for cash.

(Hear Barney Fife) All ya have to do you see, is find where the fellows before you camped and then you and your buudy snap your shelter half together and lay it over where he's already dug the trench you see. And since your not digging another trench not only is your tent oriented correctly but you're avoiding damaging nature. And Betty Lou would say that was a good thing.

In the direction you mention... I wish they would. - My problem is that I'm trying to help them get away with it but they aren't taking the hint. Or maybe I shouldn't let them think it's okay and try crushing their little souls under my gauntleted repressive socialist fist and see if that will start the rebellion(Viva la Scouting!)... ah ha ha, ha ha ha, aha ha ha ha ha ha ha ...

Sorry adamsdwa, I missed your earlier question about using a timer. No, we didn't have a timer. We had an electric eye gate that discrimnated by which car broke the link in order 1-4. We then entered the finish place for each race on the spreadsheet. After each car in a heat had had one run in each lane the spreadsheet gave us an overall place order for each car.

I was taught the same as 2eagles, prevailing winds or SE. But that IS location dependant. Also to ensure that while the tent os laid out on that axis the door should be on the lee or calm side to prevent the wind from blowing any rain in thru the side you usually have the best ventilation control of.

If you happen to be carrying a can of Kerosene... ROTFL No, not really, I'm a fan of the egg carton style, hand cleaner has a significant alcohol content and can start even reasonably damp tinder, For non-Scout big dog camping Everclear has lots of possible uses which happens to include as an accelerant. Cotton balls have lots of possibilities to include serving as a great base for any accelerant you may have. And in the weird department: Methane ignition (use your imagination)(clearly not a Scouting event)to start a birds nest. Only a limited number of tries on this one.

He didn't know where he got it but here's another link to lots of PWD links: http://www.geocities.com/~PACK215/pwd-pwdsites.html

I agree with the idea of being able to simply brand or even put a sticker on for an inspection; but in some locales, with some parents, the extremity is called for in order to force modification to prevent reuse of the same car. The sawing mentioned above was brought into play - sadly - at a church sponsored club, not Cub Scouts and was done after the races but before return of the cars to the kids or their parents. It was done on one side only so that those who did play fair were still able to display their car. The sawing was not about the cars first presentation at a race for inspection, but to prevent the same car from simply being used for repeated years events with no modifications. A winning car and a poor attitude will sometimes drive people to try to reuse a car.

We've got a meeting tonight to set the details but it will probably be, as in the past, to simply show up in uniform, hand out bulletins, sit down in the back and then do an informational table in the hall afterwards for 15-20 minutes. But our CO has been really hands off over the years.

I would look at my location and growth prospects to decide about the track size. I would seriously consider going ahead and building a four lane even if I had to do it over time (for next years event). Reasoning: 1) If the Pack grows you have it. 2)It will shorten the time necessary for the event. 3) If YOU fund and build it you own it and can rent or loan it to other Packs in your current position. 4) Remember, though that others who don't own one will still accuse you of cheating because your son could pre-run his car and "tune" it to your track - so develop a thick skin if your son will be racing on your track. Has the no reusing rule been enforced in the past? If not you need to get buy in to start getting it enforced. If so bringing up what happened last year will probably not get you anything but resistance for ongoing Pack efforts. In an AWANA group I saw, they cut a 1/4 inch deep by 1/8th inch wide groove down the entire side of one side of the car so it could still be displayed but would require extensive modification not to show the groove at the next inspection(thus making it a different car in order to reuse. Also, allowing different car classes(by the book for the Kids, by the book adults and unlimited open) can sometimes get past the reuse issues. Have you considered asking a Troop to do a service project by running your event for you? No Cub Scout parent involvement in running the events - fewer possible conflicts. And if they choose to mark the car in some way(see above) to prevent re-use then it isn't a Pack issue.

ScoutDad1996, When you say your son's leaders are you referring to his Scoutmaster or his Den Leaders? I will assume he is a Boy Scout, if not please correct me, thanks. If the issue is with a Den Leader and your son is a Boy Scout, think in terms of how much camping experience this person has. I work with some Den Leaders who do not go camping, It's a Parent thing in their eyes when the Cub/Webelos go out and sleep under the stars. They may have presuppositions that experience hasn't rid them of. In this case, IF they are approachable then let your son do so but not where the Boys they lead could possibly hear the discussion. No one likes to look like they don't know what they are talking about, especially in front of those they lead. Pre-brief and maybe even playact the discussion with your son - let him know when to quit, even if he is right, antagonizing an adult who isn't going to change over something that is this small just isn't worth it. In this realm the leaders may think it is only about the firestarter - and not necessarily the adult association. If it is with his Boy Scout leaders then the same remedy applies but there it is a larger issue in that the Boy Scout leaders should be looking at this as a mentoring and adult association opportunity. If they fail that test then maybe a cup of coffee with the Scoutmaster and a non-confrontational discussion of the issue is in order. But you should remember this isn't about fire starters, it's about how they are relating to the Scouts and especially one scout in particular. Be prepared to listen and don't merely focus on driving home your point. I like the homemade fire-starters, they're cheap, light, small, easy to make, and when you REALLY need it to work the first time - they do(I've never used one that didn't successfully start a fire). I do concur that they are the easy way out and don't like them to be used as regular method but do think that T-2-1 Scouts should be exposed to them early and often enough for them to see the value in carrying one or two in an emergency kit.

A couple of things that may go back a couple of pages... 1)The most recent first, In regard to wearing uniforms at school, I remember wanting to do Cub Scouts when I was in grade school and not being allowed due to some issues my parents and older brothers had with a "interesting" Scoutmaster - but when I saw the poor kid who's mom "made" him wear the CS uniform to school and he was clinging to the car crying, yelling "I won't go" and she had to get out and frog-march him into the school - I quit worrying about it for a long time after that. 2)The remark was made that,"Football - coach gives you the plays. The only time you get to make a decision is when the play gets screwed up, and you have to improvise. Don't mess the play up, hold onto the ball, and run like heck. Defense, you may have a little more opportunity to make some decisions and show some leadership. Other sports have less opportunity to show real leadership, making real decisions that really effect how things are, except for some collegic sports. " I respectfully disagree, in most Sports there is as much or more Leadership shown on the practice field, in the weight room, in not getting out of the coaches sight and continuing on pace for your run, in calling out your teammate who's slacking during practice than may be called for on the actual event field. Leadership is shown everyday in the practice venue of what ever sport. ( I was a Track and Cross-Country runner, two Varsity Track Letters and Three Varsity Cross-Country) It's easy to slack off and watch your teammates do the same - I knew anytime I wanted a break or just slow the pace or go shorter distances than what we were assigned that they'd be ready to do that too. But do you really think that knowing that and deciding to press on didn't help develop my leadership skills? Every time I hung on and didn't succumb to peer presure, I WAS making a real difference in the outcome of the upcoming meets. In the "non-team" sports like track there is in fact a strong team component, no single athlete can win a team title in Track. The pole vaulters, hurdlers, discus hurlers and shot-putters, triple jumpers and yes, the milers all need to be inspired and while a coach is great it's seeing the other "non-gifted" athlete who is succeeding because he's working hard consistently that helps to drive each of those disparate parts into doing their best to bring home the team win. When another athlete whose event doesn't start for a couple of hours brings you drink in between heats of your event, when there event is done for the day and they are actively cheering your efforts, isn't that Leadership and teamwork in action? It's great to do well in your event - but it's the team title that hangs on the school wall.

Haven't asked the Cubmaster yet but my first search for "Pinewood Derby Spreadsheet" on Google brought up these two links. http://home1.gte.net/res06xo8/pine.htm http://www.scoutdb.org/pinewood/ the second one looks just like what he used yesterday. the first one has a rain gutter regatta sheet that could be used for a two lane PWD track.

Den Chief son went to his Webelos Dens time slot of the Derby yesterday. Very well organized, good facilities, decent track, very good finish line finish detector and display - in several of the races I could not have discriminated between 3 of 4 cars by eye. Excellent competition too, there were 3 and 4 way place ties over the 4 runs of the final heat (sixteen car bracket).

As you search look for Excel files that have been created and posted. One of our local Cubmasters used a great excel file yesterday. It worked really well. I'll ask him if he knows where he found it.