Gunny2862

I have had SPL's who chose to attend and and other who chose not to. The previous SPL, went to every one during his tenure, the current one hasn't made any of them. One did a great job and one appears to be doing a better job in the face of new challenges. There are benefits, they see that the adults have issues and work (mostly) thru them. They find out about many events that the community or council offers that aren't always advertised to the Troop - and to date have always figured out the rationale as to why they aren't always advertised on their own. They see that Adults give up more time than they may otherwise be aware of to help them work the program. There are drawbacks, they see that the adults have issues and work (mostly) thru them.;( They sometimes feel they have wasted an evening, but then, occasionally so do I. I like it when they attend, It doesn't bother me when they don't. It doesn't affect my thoughts about their effectiveness about being the SPL - I look at how they interact with the PLC and Troop for that.

There are those who don't like pie? Oh my!

I didn't forget it, I left it alone. It's one of those that can too easily run into hazing territory as people start to make fun of the person doing it. But again in the right circumstances, with the right folks....

See Leaders help/pointers, a spun thread.

Now that we can work with! Begin by ensuring that you have a vision, a plan to build a Team that will work to build Scouting into the Boys and how that team will do that. Then that you and your CC are in synch. That he/she knows what support you need, that the CC is staffing the Committee and the CC is supervising to see that each part of the Committee is doing it's job and aware of the vision. Ensure with the CC's help that your Adult Direct Contact staff are fully staffed, Trained, or Training and have bought into the vision. Get the Boys to buy in, many times that can have them teaching their parents the "why"s of what you are doing. And why timelines and deadlines are important. These things alone can help many of the items on Kudu's referenced 86 reasons from the burnout thread. It's been a large part of my process for the last 18 months - I just hope I can last long enough to see it end the "Scoutmaster One Man Show" the Troop ran almost from it's inception. It worked, for them, but you had to have an incredibly strong willed and highly resourced person to do it all themselves. And very few lasted more than 2-4 years.

No Pushups are not Corporal Punishment, neither are Wall sits, Bend and thrusts, Situps, Monkey (word deleted by poster), 8 and/ or 10 count body builders or just about any ohter exercise that doesn't involve another person acting on your person.. None of the above has been used in my Troop. To date. To my knowledge. Are they appropriate without being corporal punishment? Now that's the question! I object in many situations to their being appropriate for Scouts. But can see given the right circumstances where they could be useful. The trick as always would be in seeing that they weren't being abused, or used as a crutch preventing the development of better Leadership skills.

Voting either Pecan or Key Lime, but not both - that would be gross.

Yes, conversation and common sense should prevail. How deeply/how often does he sleep walk? Can he untie a knot in his "sleepwalking" state. Is there existing medical intervention? What do they do at home? Hey, no lake but there are stoves, knives, candles, matches etc... Parental supervision for at least a few campouts (until you can evaluate) doesn't seem out of line. And IMHO, should be a requirement. (Edit)Oh, and I personally would NOT want to rely on my waking every time a Scout woke up and went to (do whatever) in the middle of the night - I WORK all day when the Scouts are up - I SLEEP once they hit the tents. I wake up quick if the come for me but otherwise I'm OUT. Putting it on the Adult Leaders to pull a Firewatch(we put our fires out overnight) of that type is just wrong - if it's really necessary the Parent needs to come along.(This message has been edited by Gunny2862)

Gern, interlocks don't work on inanity. But I do concur with the sentiment.

Are you affiliated with a Troop? If so, are they supporting you? If not, if the local Troops want your Webelos now and in the future they should be courting you to some degree. Getting a Den Chief from them to help with these issues is one way to go. If he can speak confidently about his experiences with both the the youth and his parents and show them the gear he actually uses it may help. Also, the Troop should be thinking about these things and having (At least one) campouts available in the warmest most conducive weather to Webelos in order to assist them in their goal of earning the badge and AoL and to get them a chance to meet the Troop - with their own goals also in mind, of course. Or, you may be dealing with parents who will insist on "babying" their son, it's okay until he crosses over but they need to begin letting go now. It doesn't work well for the Scout or his Patrol later on.

The topic is simply to broad. The way I see it we do this(hopefully) in each of the other threads posted in the forum. Sometimes the help is simply a (hopefully) sympathetic ear (eye?) from someone else with the same frustrations. Sometimes its being pointed to a written BSA resource. Sometimes it's a "This isn't what BSA has written but it's what works for us answer." Occasionally but (hopefully) only when truly necessary, it's also a kick in the posterior from our peers.

And the PC police have NO problem going after Dads apparently. Aughh! If YOU aren't going to play then don't preach it at me. I'd certainly allow you to place a proximity sensor on my child that tells you who he's with more, Mom or Me. I think your model would break in our case. Betcha $10.

Could you hear the line going "Whhiiirrrrrrrr"? It was. You're going to need to repair the drag on that reel.

First they have to grab the idea that the Scouts are running the show, a hard concept for some Cub Scout Parents - But by multiple exposures to the Troop, making ourselves available to the Prospective Boy Scouts for more than one campout, by sending them Den Chiefs, by having Last years calendar available and explaining that just like many businesses operate on different calendar years we operate on a different calendar year than Cub Scouting or at least different than the packs we work with - But some of them don't even run on the same calendars - and they know it and it helps our case. But by Crossover time hopefully they've seen the method to our particular madness. It helps when they see that on Campouts the Boys are cleaned up before they cook and eat and that the dishes are actually clean before they are put away. That common area items are put up before tents. When they see that if our Boys don't lead it, it doesn't get done. But that they do take care of their responsibilities. And unlike many of our local Troops the adults are watching, but not directing, that the boys are actually and really convincing the other boys to do their share and that the elected Scouts are really concerned about the younger ones safety and welfare.

per our earlier off-line conversation, Ouch, again. Do they not get what it already costs to be a volunteer?

There are probably better ways to do it, but we open for comment/suggestions to all of the Scouts in November, having reminded Scouts to keep calendars from their outside activities (football, lacrosse, piano competitions,etc) throughout the year we gather those. The PLC takes the input and brainstorms during the first 3 weeks in December. We have a PLC meeting/Annual Planning Conference between Christmas and New Years and provide a Proposed calendar to the Committee on the first Monday in January - they have a week to approve or return for further work. We haven't ever gotten out of January w/o an approved calendar. As to Webelos and concern about what we do, showing them our historian reports, picture wall, and previous years calendars gives them as good if not a better picture of what we'll likely do in the future than just giving them this years calendar. One complaint I get on this is that, with two SPL's a year only one of them gets to plan a Calendar, the other one only gets to carry out the other ones agenda - That MAY be why your Troop does it the way they do.?

If your page is open, and either anyone can look at it , OR, if there are other Interested Adults from the Troop who can access your page at any time, then I don't see a problem. Very few people are going to have inappropriate communications in a forum where others can readily monitor or check up on them. We actually have an OA chapter, Troop, and Local BSA Camp Facebook group pages, we utilize to announce upcoming events and keep up with each other. It CAN be a great thing.

I also agree that yelling AT, verbally abusing, denigrating, maligning and generally causing distress to Scouts has no place on a Boy Scout range. Heck, unless it's a Combat Movement range or a specific Stress Shooting range(which I've run as well - and think is a lot of fun in it's place - but stress shooting isn't about thinking) I don't like that modality in the military either. They inhibit the thought process of range learning. BUT, as John-in-KC posts,(or as I'm reading him) shooters (whoever they may be) must KNOW when the Tower(Rangemaster) gives firing commands, or movement commands(don't go forward of the yellow line, or the red line) or any other instruction that it really ISN'T a suggestion or guideline. Does that have to be provided in an elevated voice? I don't know. Show me your range set up, Show me how many shooters we're talking about managing at the same time, Show me how many qualified range coaches are there and whether we're relaying commands or using a Loudspeaker system. Tell me how much face time I've had with the shooters or are they walking on cold, firing and leaving. But still, if your Rangemaster cannot immediately seize control of any/all action on his range - I question their ability to run it. And a strong "Command voice" IS an essential tool to hopefully stop an unsafe situation from developing into a tragedy, or to minimize the damage already done. In my circles, by the way, I'm the nice one.

NOo, completely different context... but committee meetings, hmmm...

packsaddle, and I'll also agree that that may be what the boys find out. But still perhaps it could be done safely outdoors - but for me the fact that the boys had to go find out and convince me is the trick.

Scouter760, I have choked out several people, in the line of duty, for the express purpose of avoiding hurting them. If you can maneuver your way into position, best done with a little helpful distraction by your partner... , it's a lot less destructive/painful than almost any forceful takedown - or shooting them, or tasing, or beanbagging, or... My TKD instructor would have hunted me down(still would) if SHE found out I'd used TKD offensively - as taught in her school it's a purely defensive skill.

I have to agree with Barry on the point that rather than saying "No" - say "Find out how we can do it Safely and I'll support you in doing this." But yet again it's in giving the Boys the opportunity to learn that we fulfill our mission. And occasionally they learn just how difficult doing something safely would be and drop the idea for a better one.

I agree that both views: the NRA safety focus and BSA character focus need to be attended to. But of the two, while on the range, the safety focus has to come first. We don't want the kids to learn that casualness around rifles (or bow and arrow) are desirable things. They shouldn't fear them, but a healthy respect can save if not their physical life their emotional and possibly fiscal life when they inadvertently and carelessly discharge the rifle at someone else. Personally, I like to run a casual range, with the proviso that everyone on it knows that when I do elevate my voice and go to stern that the time for thinking on your own has ended and you need to do only what you are told and not do anything else - like when a shooter is downrange and another shooter chooses to handle a weapon (for whatever reason). I find that the shooters (of any age) learn more about the skills involved and take direction better if I leave my "range jerk" voice(which some others would refer to as Drill Instructor - but I think they are mostly maligning a relationship they don't really understand) alone as much as possible and converse with them instead. However, volume IS called for depending on wind or how many shooters one is speaking to or sometimes to emphasize a point. And the range jerk voice WILL go to full on at any time anyone sweeps me and probably anyone else while on a range.

The problem isn't the bacon - it's tipping the pan to cause the flare-up. Which is the safety issue, the bacon or the inappropriate practice? Don't get me wrong, I like Hash Browns - but I also like teaching the boys how to cook things at varying levels of "doneness". And very little works for that like Bacon does. I am also very, sometimes overly, safety conscious. OSHA regulations and being the Safety Rep. for Large organizations will do that to you. But what is the risk involved - what is the reward? If we actually understood the risks very few of us would drive - Conversely, it's safer to drive on the route available to me than to ride the Bike - but the reward in time saved is HUGE. Protocols are fine but also lead to complacence. "Well, we followed the protocol, it looked wrong but who knew catastrophic failure could occur like THAT?" Vigilance and Awareness of what you are doing are better - constantly examine what you are doing. And as the poster above noted, paraphrased, Everyone is responsible for their own safety, then for that of those around them. Even Lifeguards evaluate their risk before going after a swimmer in trouble. Build this into your Scouts, mindfulness, and they will always be safer than others who failed to learn this one thing.

DeanRX, I can't see what you aren't getting. To me you have answered your own question several times: "Besides, as other posters have stated. The funds technically belong to the CO. They are just "earmarked" for the individual scout in the unit. The scout leaves, then the earmark is removed and the $$ goes into the unit'd general fund." The funds being owned by the CO they can allocate them as they wish - I just hope they have a written policy on this. "I'm surprised you haven't been faced with an outbound scout (and parents) with their hand out expecting the Pack to cut them a check. After all you pay out for a scout's transfer... why not their 'severance' package? " Because it's not a severance package for either of them. "I still don't understand how some of the packs out there only send monies to a troop if a scout crosses-over. Those that don't and drop, the pack keeps the funds?" Yes, exactly, the funds were raised for Scouting activities - the only way the pack can be sure they will be used for such is to either keep them or forward them to a Troop with the former Cub Scout. A Webelos or other Cub who quits/ or graduates would have to spend the money for Scouting activities or Items and be reimbursed if the Pack rules allows them to do so or lose it. At my Troop an inbound Scout - former Webelos who brought a Pack check from his former Scout account, joined and then quit would either have to purchase Scouting items "backpack tent, etc" and be reimbursed form those funds or forfeit the funds he brought with him to the Troop. Anything else does bring on the wrath of the IRS as you note earlier. "My point is - that is NOT the scout's money to take with him to a troop. If it is earmarked for individual scout accounts, then the scout either needs to use it while still in the unit in which the funds were raised, OR they forfeit the money to the unit's general fund." Unless the Pack or Troop have a written policy - and follow it. "I say its a use or loose issue and should be stated as such up front when a cub joins. To have money from cubs follow a boy to a troop, yet retain a drop-outs money in the pack's general fund creates a double standard within the unit. Double standards begets problems in my expirience." I'm guessing you mean "use or lose". And if that's the Troop/Packs policy I would agree, but Troops/Packs have different policies - and as long as they follow them and the IRS doesn't have an issue with them... As to the Double-standard: that comes from not understanding that even though there is a virtual scout account the money never really belongs to that scout and is raised for Scouting - and if it supports the individual Scout for gear or activities then fine, If it supports the Unit then fine, but it shouldn't ever get handed to either an on-going Scout or an out-going Scout for their own purposes outside of Scouting - because that is a fraudulent use of the money that was raised for Scouting.