Gunny2862

well,... It WAS TIQ, but, the quotations made me think that the Server showing up with the Writ, Subpoena, or Notice of Suit is, however legal, still the threat or use of force..., is it not? Wouldn't MOST people feel as though they were under attack when served?

Some Tofu in every Pot and a Segway in every garage. (updated)

So, does that mean the ACLU and their extensive Legal team are also terrorists?

OGE, can I be like you when I grow up?

Advancement , Advancement, Advancement. Argh, that's pretty much all I hear about. If pressed, they pay lipservice to the ideals of Scouting but they hammer away at this method over and over and over(ad nauseam) again. Even the Eagle Scouts who are also parents.... Did I say ARGH? I also prefer they have a minimum of one open period at summer camp.

Dan that link was hilarious. signed The Machine Gun of Looking at All Sides of the Question snort, snort... I'm usually barely able to actually comprehend one side at any decent level...

We are fortunate to be able to have fires MOST of the time. With the fire comes some companionship and sharing that doesn't happen during the rest of the day. We have never to my knowledge had a campfire "program" except for when putting on a show for others. We are incorporating programming for regular campouts by starting the idea from the Top down -the PLC has started to learn a couple of skits and songs and we've talked a lot about run-on's that we will begin this weekend with at our campout. The SM has been known to break out in a rendition (or rendering) of the classic Tex Ritter "I'm My Own Grandpa." upon request or when feeling the need to be annoying.(This message has been edited by Gunny2862)

I haven't tried them myself, yet. But AM interested. Tree hugger type straps would seem to be a necessity. I've seen hiking pole setups but am very doubtful about whether they work except for modifying the hammock into a tarp tent type setup. I have seen bringing a center pole and a outlier poles and putting them up in a spoke and wheel arrangement for up to eight hammocks that looked REAlly cool - but With carrying the poles (they were pretty stout - the Broomstick hiking staffs might work?)it didn't look like there was a weight savings for that set up unless it was something like the staff and you were already going to be carrying it.

Yeah, that may have been what was confusing me. That is the sylabus used in our training last summer, so hearing that there was a mysterious new one had me not wanting to comment.

Uh question/clarification? Is this a departure from the past? How has this been handled in the past? As a Scoutmaster I would be happy to accept any boy at any time, but, it seems that the Dec/Jan/Feb crossover time gives the parents the most time to adapt to the difference in the programs and to obtain the necessary items for summer camp season. While good Webelos to Scout transitions are the goal and SHOULD start at the beginning of a Webelos 1 year, I don't know of too many Troops that actually have the kind of communication where a Scout who is yet to Crossover for this year isn't going to take some penalties for crossing so late. Our camp that we normally have 1st on our list of possibilities, has pre-payment programs that are almost over already. The price hike starts in 2 days if you aren't already in the pre-payment program. Some Troops won't include the new Scout on their roster unless he's a singed and delivered part of the Troop (sometimes there are penalties against Troop recognition programs(National)/Camp awards (Camp)etc. when a smaller number than you anticipate or a portion of your registry show up) There are other Council camping events whose payment deadlines have already past, putting the new Scout that much further behind. In this area the later one crosses the greater disadvantage they are putting themselves in. Sometimes the Webelos Leader may have more communication with the Troop and have reasons why doing it the way he suggests to you is a good idea, why not talk to him about what Troops the boys have expressed interest in and why he is bringing these ideas to you?

Locally Webelos 1's aren't typically invited to Webelos Woods (and aren't usually considered by the Troops to be Webelos) maybe because they aren't trying to recruit next years batch of Scout prospects just this years. We have a Spring event this year that is causing some consternation due to the issues raised above. When Council invited Webelos to attend, because of the note above, it was discovered that they really weren't inviting anyone from Cub Scouts. Not even the Pack's thought the Webelos 1's were being invited. A few discussions with the DE later, Webelos 1's are now recognized as actually being Webelos, as they should be. Our Webelos Woods experience this year will include both Web1's and 2's.

Well, wrong again. This being wrong thing is getting old... After getting the incorrect gouge from my wife - who would for unstated reasons be reasonably expected to know. Another source PM'd me. Apparently when we see those flaws in Movies and TV it may not be required, at least not by the United States Code. See Title 10 USC Chapter 45, Section 772 provision f for Military uniforms in movies and provision j for BSA uniforms.

WAIT, WAIT, I thought boring the parents was one of the perks! Was I wrong again?

CalicoPenn, Great post! Much better perspective than mine. Although point 2 in mine May still hold. Thanks!

Is it Subaru? I was sure it was a Saturn. Oh well. Yep, wrong again... here's a link... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2ANYp_jI_0(This message has been edited by Gunny2862)

Among all of the other things that others have said, that are spot on. Here is another possibility or two. 1)Have YOU put on your long pants, squared away your necker and had the discussion with the Scoutmaster? If not, why not? The fact that it may not do any good notwithstanding, at least you won't be serving as his ASM - a person he should be relying on for support - and at the same time aiming at his back. If you find you are unable to support this SM, resign, unequivocally and now, and join the Committee if you will and work from the right side on this. It May be time for him to go, but DO NOT mess it up for the Scouts by doing it the wrong way! 2)It may be that as Webelos choose Troops that fit them, you may need to try on another Troop. Not every Troop is right for every Scout, but there is almost always a Troop that IS a fit for a particular Scout. You MAY be finding the adult version of that paradigm. If no one else is unhappy enough to do anything, It may simply be that you are out of place and need to find a new Scouting home - and when you find the one that fits - they will be ecstatic to have you!

Saturn automobiles. Disclaimer: I own two Saturns, a 2nd year SL and a 2003, they've both been great - now if I can just get college students to quit rear-ending me while they pick their teeth in their rear view mirrors - True Story. The cars are holding up remarkably well. Some neat points in the commercial: Pride in Craftsmanship, in doing your best to build the best car you can, also a visual incorporating a non-worded condemnation of the use of others work. I liked that they used incorrect uniforms, it's a requirement that when the TV or Movies from U.S. studios use military uniforms that there is at least one incorrect detail per person. That they did the same with Scouts, I took as a compliment. Brownie Vests are a pretty big detail mismatch though.

Uh, who is doing it in two weekends, unless they're doing 4, 10 hour days they might need to re-read the BSA Lifeguard documents. And I'd hate to teach it that way. Question, how will they get their Guarding time in doing it that way, is there a concurrent swim event they can guard? Like I said earlier, the quality of the Instructor can make or break the certification for either Cert.. As to the inequivalency, we've already established that widely divergent topics are covered, ARC guards don't do Safety Afloat and aren't typically concerned with actual Buddy Checks, no longer do Combatives, but some of that is specific to things Troops do, or that BSA thinks Guard Might need to know. BSA guards don't do Pool water chemical evaluations - Pool Directors do. So why would ARC/BSA teach those skills if they don't utilize them? I believe ARC guards might put in more lap time, but also think the BSA is the more through course. If you can't already swim well you shouldn't be doing either certification, apparently, BSA thinks the same way and cuts out the "swimming" time. Edit: If his goal is working and getting paid, ARC is the right choice. Most BSA camps do pay but it's a shorter season and not on a par for pay.(This message has been edited by Gunny2862)

Stosh, does your PLC plan the meals and then send the new Scout Shopping? Or do you use an older grubmaster or how is it that your system works? Because I'm relatively new and trying to do a little bit of change at a time(elephant, argh)we are trying to follow the program - which includes letting those 1st year T-2-1 Scouts plan the meals and shop for them so they can advance. The PLC does look over the plan but without going to the huge checklist (even if the boys develop it) or ((having the SPL or PL go along to veto the Scouts choices on the ground) - which is just another version of the adult vetoing)the shopping doesn't always look like the planning.

In my very humble and not long term experience with that, the NCS trained BSA Water Sports Director/ Lifeguard Counselor who did our training DID take ARC certification for equivalency on the academics where it applied and then taught that individual the remainder of the course. Still had to do practical application on all of the skills however, which I believe should be required to get the other organizations certificate. YMMV. Would you really want YOUR name coming up when that Lifeguard misses the save and they look into who trained him, if you hadn't observed his doing all of the practical skills and spent enough time to judge that they had the character to BE guards? As a Lifeguard Counselor I think that is in it's own right a large part of the course. I may be incorrect, I haven't taken the ARC course, I'm not sure how you could give equivalency for ARC to BSA without additional training. It would appear to me that you could give equivalency for BSA to ARC. Just show the newly certified ARC guard how to do the pre-shift water quality testing.(This message has been edited by Gunny2862)

I think it's a chicken and the egg plus exposure to litigious action thing. The best way to protect yourself as an organization is to have the most widely recognized Certification as your standard. The largest organization is the ARC. Thus the most training, thus the most widely recognized, thus the most demand, ... the circle continues. There's no incentive for ARC to create/accept reciprocity with BSA for Lifeguard certifications unless we are going to pay them a fee. And even BSA/ARC reciprocity sets up ARC as the standard, continuing the circle above...

Our PLC instituted a set amount($10) for food over a decade ago Fri. PM, Saturday all day, and then Sunday AM. It's worked really well. This last month they (the PLC) decided that while it covered food and pantry items very well, and was still holding at parity, they needed to help offset some fuel costs. They just voted in ($15), All adults still pay the original amount($10) some choose not to take the fuel reimbursement. They all eat really well, (the majority of the time) and have on occasion seriously impressed some of the parents who went along. If the adults don't take the fuel money it carries over until the family campout or can be diverted over for other higher cost outings(float trips, etc.) The Previous SPL thought individually budgeting outings would be a great idea, until he shopped with a new Scout Scout and figured out that until the boys know HOW to shop, that unless they instituted more checklists and controls (virtually shopping for the new Scout) that the Patrol that Scout was shopping for would either miss at least one meal while having a different great one, be sick all weekend, or have huge wastage while they learned. With the fixed budget they can more easily transfer lessons learned across different shopping Trips, Stores, and Outings. I like the fixed budget and planning in advance, it's the doing it without doing it FOR the Scout that's the trick. You CAN eat for a lot less than $10 but it's tough on 1st years who haven't shopped very much to do so. And yes, they occasionally have made horrendous decisions - but the Patrol members seem to have ways of correcting those errors for the next time.

It's all in the Instructor as to how good the course is. If you only want a Pool Guard you want the ARC certificate. If you want someone who can do more (open Beach, Waterfront, Float Trip, etc.) you want the BSA cert. Both have their points. I'd prefer to see a Guard with any cert, or both, work a shift or two before I hired anyone. The BSA guard from my troop who trained the same time I did my Counselor training, is someone I'd let watch my back, or my own kid. He does a great job. BSA and Red Cross ARE moving closer but it's almost totally by the BSA adding more Pool requirements to their training. No reciprocity that I'm aware of as of yet. Personally, I like having some of the "In Water Hand to Hand", some combative drowners will take you out if you let them. As always, some instructors do go a little overboard though, it's not a karate course.

Hi eaglecout4029, it entails: 1) a Practical Application which is usually either done during the course and taken into account and scored as the course progresses OR a separate event where all the skills you have been taught during the course are displayed in one final event. 2) a Written Multiple Choice Final that is usually on the last day of the course after the practical application portion. The questions are directly from the course materials and it should be an easy test IF your Lifeguard Counselor has covered all of the material he should have, AND you paid attention. Does that answer your question? Edit: Good resource Eagle69!(This message has been edited by Gunny2862)

Haven't read the other thread yet so I'm just looking at the question asked. There are things that need to happen whether National mandates them or not. Among them: Someone needs to have checked the weather., Someone needs to know where you are going, when you anticipate returning, that you HAVE returned, that you have the capability to function where you are going, that you have collected funds to operate with, that shopping has been conducted that food storage was done properly, that such trash as is generated is properly handled/ disposed of. And many others...(interesting to me the Tour Permit doesn't set off a S&R when people don't return inside their window) Of all of these things, each one is not just a single teaching opportunity. Many times,(for those of us who are less gifted and need reminders) in order to facilitate the things each of us finds important, a checklist (or teaching points) list develops and as these things go occasionally someone comes along and sees the list and it becomes a Requirement rather than a reminder of a teaching moment. If the boys don't know what needs to be done I don't see that letting them continually flounder without at least guidelines(or possibilities lists - whatever you want to call it) to show them the right direction is the right thing to do. And giving them a checklist(guideline resource) seems reasonable. It's when a martinet sees the checklist and decides that item 7c isn't clicked off(even though it only applies when the tents have all been drenched and doesn't occur until after return to the origination point and the Scouts are still camping) and item 8 has, so we need to stop everything and correct that. That it becomes an issue - usually in our case, between the SM and the Adult who hasn't grasped the spirit of things. Frankly, unless they've been exposed to a Boy-led program(that is at a minimum at our current level - and IMHO we are at the bottom of what one should call Boy-led - but we will continue to push in that direction) they NEED the direction to have the confidence that they are doing the right thing so that they WILL step forward and lead. No one likes to fail, especially publicly and the checklist may be a crutch but for early or young developing leaders who aren't "natural leaders" they are necessary tools. While the natural leader theory may be a great one to work with, in our troop it's about developing EACH boy to the level they are willing to work to, not to simply give the experience to one or two leaders for each "Class year" or in some cases for that periods dynastic leader who didn't leave the opportunity open for anyone else. (edit: I would have been the third poster had work not intervened sorry if any is inapplicable or after the fact now.)(This message has been edited by Gunny2862)