Gunny2862

It is the SPL for Troop events, or PL for Patrol events, duty to ensure the fire is OUT and trash and food are appropriately stored before lights out. If he chooses to go to bed before the last adult does then that adult will be waking him up to perform those checks. No vehicle movement for travel until the SPL has checked that all Scouts are accounted for. We don't worry about the soda's and stuff, meal wise - it only took a couple of times where they had an all sugar campout before institutional memory kicked in - the older Scouts, "counsel" and "encourage" the younger Scouts to purchase appropriate foods.

sherminator, you sir, are welcome. Pi to the Square Root of negative one, "Get Real" Square Rroot of negative one to Pi, "Be Rational"

It also figures heavily in the new TDC (The Trainer's EDGE)literature. I am a big fan of doing something simple like teach with teaching a knot as described above. Just remember that for the Scouts they don't really need to start with the educational theory behind EDGE in the TLT and TDC material or be exposed to all of the managing a classroom theories in the TDC literature or in order to meet the upcoming requirement changes - they just need to be able to Explain, Demonstrate, Guide and Enable the student in the task they are teaching them - that's all.

OGE, I think we can at least now reference this thread occasionally when Pie *enters the conversation. *( I almost said when Pie comes up but,...that's pretty gross. )

Without any agenda other than just having fun... As Long as it's not Banana, Carrot, Red Velvet or Fruit cut me a slice o' that there cake!

Sorry OGE, I misread your post, but still agree with my earlier response. As to the re-reading, no I don't think discussing that you are attempting to redirect the conversation with the pie gambit will work as it brings attention to the "elephant in the room" phenomenon usually referring in these cases that someone has lost their sense of decorum and would then be analogous to pointing out their incivility. It would then be the equivalent of calling them out on their behavior rather than civilly redirecting(or yes, sometimes ending) the topic on a lighter note. IMHO only. Thanks.

In our area it is not uncommon(doesn't happen every day either) for a youth to skip/test out of a grade. Most commonly they skip the 2nd grade when this occurs. It also occurs from time to time when homeschooled youth are transitioned into a public school and given an advance placement or when the parents who are homeschooling do a year-round program and advance their child early by virtue of the number of "classroom" days. At any rate I would tend not be excited about taking a youth under 10, especially if he is crossing alone in order to cross early. I don't like this earlier and earlier business because of the developmental issues involved.

I may be wrong but, for me I think I have only joined in the "pie" portions of the discussion when it's already been apparent that the thread is overall dying and the "fun" "ridiculousness" of pie talking has seized the discussion. And on those occasions I think I would have missed out on some insights on my fellow Scouters had the pie talk not occurred.

And one minor point, in addition to the age issue, the possible helicopter parent(although this may just be an involved one), is the idea that this prospect would be bridging as a single - no built in friends crossing with him. Having to join in to a Patrol with out anyone you know and being the youngest presents significant challenges, I would think those challenges would still exist in the most adult led Troop imaginable. Why would a caring involved parent think this was a good idea? I am not sure - this would have to be an exceptionally self-driven, organized, accomplished and confident in himself child for me to think of allowing it for mine. As a currently serving Scoutmaster, who interacts with youth daily from 8-21 in my home and work life, I think this is most likely a very poor idea. Most youth organizations who have age limits, have them for very good developmental reasons.

In my humble experiences in the South, it is a polite society method of attempting to civilly end a discussion which is heading in an inelegant direction by diverting attention of the members of a party to a more pleasant topic. If apple is the reward, I'll have mine ala mode..., if Key Lime hold the ice cream thanks.

What's odd to me is that for the first time since we put troops on the ground in Iraq and Afghanistan, I didn't know that I personally knew someone(anyone)who was there for about 10 days this month. I again, as of this writing, have friends and acquaintances on the ground.

I don't know their(BSA's) intent but given the failed attempts i've SEEN from lifeguard trainees, it would be dangerous to have them attempt the requirement given in the turbid water described. My read is that this is a Pool test. It is as much a test to determine if someone has the strength as the attitude(don't quit) to save someone else much less keep them selves afloat when under the stress of the timelimit and the weight of the brick. My read of the test.

We will take them any time they want to come, but for their own convenience, and to some degree for ours, I would discourage May/June Crossovers unless they are willing to run into summer camp w/o knowing anyone except their crossover friends going into camp - They WILL know people coming out of camp . April is getting a little late, but we try to stay flexible and will intake at any time of year. I really like February Crossovers.

I have an EXped. In mine the pump is actually in the pad, but also has two manual inflation /deflation valves for you heavy breathers - Gern . I haven't had any issue with being cold using it - so far, down to 20 degrees F air temp. On Tent on groundsheet on bare soil(no leaves ). edit : Oh, and it's held up for more than a year to Missouri and Arkansas rough stone, thorns and brambles. Very comfy, I consider it an adjunct to my Sleep number bed at home.(This message has been edited by Gunny2862)(This message has been edited by Gunny2862)

Lisa's post is great and very insightful but I want to add one element I haven't seen. If the boys have been told that they are boy led, and anyone who is still there has every TRIED to lead anything and were quashed - that's all it takes to create the current situation. It is imperative that they receive positive reaction and support in ANY step they make in the right direction. And simple guidance(redirection) but not necessarily correction in any missteps they make in the early stages of creating the culture you are looking for. My guys are FINALLY beginning to trust that I will ACTUALLY support anything we can carry out, that they plan. We have an actual Patrol outing going out next month - that so far has had no adult involvement in the planning, some oversight, but no involvement in the planning. Yea!

I don't know where to start but you are getting my buy-in. I guess starting would either getting National to recognize the call for the program, the benefits and then authorizing and negotiating it with NOLS or other provider. Right?

Gern, now there's a suggestion I can buy into.

According to two reviews at the REI site for the M2D compass it does have a declination adjustment. nAt least one of the reviews is froma scouter and another review talks about the adjusting screw. I'd guess this probably DOES have declination adjustment but w/o seeing it might call or e-mail the REI product info folks if i was really worried about it.

And who is going to pick up the tab? Those NOLS courses aren't cheap, unless the Troop can pay or Council can work a deal there are many Scoutmasters who will become former Scouting volunteers due to the basic cost/time away from work/travel to the NOLS course site/ more time away from family and of course recertification when that gets into the equation. I'm a volunteer, sure I can quit, but the parents already aren't lining up for my spot. Down goes another Troop. I know lets' require Wilderness Medicine Surgeons/dual certified as NOLS Guides for each troop - How many troops have this available NOW? Do I think training is a good idea, sure, always have, but mandatory this and mandatory that in addition to the "there's always room for just one more training course" WILL become a problem at some point.

kenk, I'll join you in recommending clear base-plates and the adjustable declination(just remember to check it's setting for EVERY map and area you use and go) for Scouts and novice compass users. easier with a map, easier to read, easier to plot. Lensatics are technically oriented, and require a lot of user input(doing things that other compasses don't make you do(like ACTUALLY holding it level and paying attention to 3 or 4 things at once) or doing functions like adding or subtracting declination that other compasses will do for you) to work properly. I use mine, but don't and didn't recommend them for everyone.

Yes, but, they have developed into the Leupold Company whose primary business is hunting and tactical optics. http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3197/is_11_52/ai_n27464670/ I can't find any stand-alone compasses they still make but I am pretty sure they do integrate compasses into some of their tactical spotting scopes, etc. Apparently the compasses and other devices they made during WWII were too good, they didn't wear out - which killed repeat/replacement business. They moved into optics partially as a result of a missed shot while hunting and a technology they worked with during WWII filling devices with nitrogen to prevent fogging - a plus in any scope.

Pack, I didn't say I embraced moral relativism. I believe in what I believe is the truth - my worldview if you will. But in the public sphere my worldview should and most often does influence my viewpoint and hopefully actions. That said, it doesn't mean that you shouldn't be allowed to have your worldview and act in accordance with it. And that both of us may find our worldviews in conflict with civil, or other authorities, at which point we have choices to make. But at least we should be able to talk about things w/o bashing each other.

No, Sorry if I wasn't clear. I didn't say that, because I didn't purchase it and try the functionality for that, what I posited was that if those functions were not there that I definitely didn't want it other than possibly as a reference at a lower price.

Ok, cutting to the chase. Moral, see : http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/moral * Main Entry: 1moral * Pronunciation: \ˈmȯr-əl, ˈmr- * Function: adjective * Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Latin moralis, from mor-, mos custom * Date: 14th century 1 a : of or relating to principles of right and wrong in behavior : ethical b : expressing or teaching a conception of right behavior c : conforming to a standard of right behavior d : sanctioned by or operative on one's conscience or ethical judgment e : capable of right and wrong action 2 : probable though not proved : virtual 3 : perceptual or psychological rather than tangible or practical in nature or effect morally \-ə-lē\ adverb synonyms moral, ethical, virtuous, righteous, noble mean conforming to a standard of what is right and good. moral implies conformity to established sanctioned codes or accepted notions of right and wrong . ethical may suggest the involvement of more difficult or subtle questions of rightness, fairness, or equity . virtuous implies moral excellence in character . righteous stresses guiltlessness or blamelessness and often suggests the sanctimonious . noble implies moral eminence and freedom from anything petty, mean, or dubious in conduct and character . from the above: implies conformity to established sanctioned codes or accepted notions of right and wrong

It's not which brand but which specifications you need AND know how to use: Bezel resolution, Compass accuracy, Dampening time, Translucent baseplate, Sighting mirror, Declination scale, Adjustable declination, Clinometer, Reciprocal Scale, among others. I like Silva, Suunto and Brunton, there are lots of good compasses out there and available for $5 to >$100. Most $20 dollar compasses are fine, or possibly overkill for what 90% of Boy Scouts are doing. The majority of folks can't operate their compasses up to the tolerance levels of a decent compass and thus don't need an extremely accurate - and high dollar unit. As long as it can keep you on your chosen trail that's what MOST folks really need. (edit)I still use a mil surplus-ed lensatic, it's served me well, is rugged and best of all I don't really even have to think about how to use it anymore. Tehy are great if you'll take the time to learn how to use it - but make sure you track down one with the tritium night glow - yes it's radioactive but it's already been made - no sense putting it in a landfill until it's no longer viewable.(This message has been edited by Gunny2862)