Gunny2862

??? Borderline Sadistic???? After a long Military career and a fair amount of Civilian Scuba I can actually see some use in some of those requirements but, please, that's crazy for your average college grad...

We tend to travel in a multi-node format, for now. One or another Parent always seems to want to go early - no problem. The Trailer (if taken) and others who may try to stay in sight of it or another familiar vehicle. And as John said, Tail-end Charlie - usually but not always me. The Point - our first to go tends to call back with any issues - bad roads, bad directions, another unit on our reserved site, etc. Alterations to plan are made and usually texted between boys in different cars. It's working for us.

I also do not think the rank by color idea is a good one. But we have synthetic Troop T-Shirts and went with a nice dark green color - hides most stains, loose fit - grows with the Scout a little and avoids the "Oh what a nice gut you have!" comments until one is getting a lot husky. Got a local Silk Screener to put some Troop artwork on them and they look great, about six months in MOST of them still look new.

Oh and I hand wash mine with the "Gentle" Woolite by hand and hang dry, no more than once a season. (Your body oil mileage may vary)

I own one, and had previously used them from the time they were first issued. It is great to be able to not take the tent and just have the bivy if an unexpected shower comes up for warmer weather - it and the military poncho liner(not included) are an awesome combo. For slightly cooler just the green outer bag and a tent. Cooler yet the black bag instead Getting cold put them together In my humble experience, if you use a tent do NOT use the Gore-tex bag inside the tent, a tarp maybe(depends on height and airflow do disperse body vapor) but not a tent. Even though made for rough handling(and it will take it) do store each part uncompressed - I have to take it completely out of the stuff sack to accomplish this. This is an outstanding four season bag system from 60 degrees F down to about 15 degrees F for my personal preferences. Your temp rating may vary...

Bally hoo! Yes, ensure the Committee doesn't drag it's feet thinking they can wait til the last minute. Fair Winds and Following Seas.

Ditto Twocubdad and Oaktree, As to your situation I can't tell from here it might work, but I'd be afraid you'd simply be subsidizing the purchase of tents that would then disappear with the Scouts and your treasury. And I don't think this is the way to address the not taking care of gear situation. If they aren't taking care of Troop gear unless they literally own it then what happens to the facilities of places you visit? I like twocubdads solution much better, and may swing what we're doing more in-line with that also.

And around here the wx forecast is a guide and only a guide. And the local forecasters will openly tell you that they can accurately predict about the next four hours - after that, things change.

Since Abel reopened the ball on this... So because a Scout lives in an urban setting do we also lower the bar on identify ten types of wildlife? Ten native plants? It's not fair - I live in the City? Say we can't meet the nights camping because we can't get out of the City? Of course not. How about I can't go to County Government meetings for Citizenship requirements because I live so far out on the edge of the County. What you are proposing is the same. Now, just because the city pools are only open in the summer - well that means you either need to emphasize this skill during that period or to see if there is a semi-private organization (YMCA, Boys Club, Neighborhood Association, School Pool, College/University Pool) that will let you have some free time or run a fundraiser to rent some pool time. And Summer Camp actually IS an excellent time to try to obtain this skill at least under the conditions I've seen. These may be real questions but It feels like Trolling to me.

Yet another encouraging reason why I hang out here! Brag away, YOUR SCOUT deserves it!

Towards a side note mentioned earlier - It doesn't provide a complete description of the project, it doesn't mention getting the parks department and city council to buy in to the project, it doesn't mention whether or not he had any volunteers that he led(or not) but all of the above are leadership functions in regard to the Eagle project, and I would believe that one could fairly safely assume that one Scout alone didn't clear a 1,000 ft - a little longer than a football field - path in less than 250 hours without some additional labor. Especially since one would normally think that for a biking and walking path that some kind of base material was also put down, if it wasn't paved - but none of that is specifically mentioned - so why do we have to think the worst of a prospective Eagle, his Troop, District and Council - all of whom would have pre-approved the project? Towards the Union issue, - I am currently without Union representation and am an At Will employee, however I have done union work for employers who would have gladly re-hired everyone daily if they could squeeze an additional 3 cents out of each employee. They (the Unions)were, and still are necessary. Is there an evil side to the Unions, I would prefer to say that in any organization which holds power and sway over people that there are bound to be SOME abuses of that power. In this case, it makes for an interesting discussion and lots of mud slinging but one would think the Union Rep and the City Council member liason could have quietly had this dicussion , wait for it, over some pie, and maybe a nice fair trade cup of coffee.

You know, I almost wonder if a Troop never has a Scout ?remediated? from a BoR if the BoR has any real purpose whatever? I just had my first Scout ever(3 years), sent back from a First Class BoR without advancement at the current time. I won't cover specifics but the basics were that in comparison with his peers this particular Scout was the least able to carry his end of the conversation in regards to skill questions or terminology that should be present in any basic grasp of the material in a couple of areas. He was viewed as unprepared. Then he was given a remediation plan and a time frame in which the Board would be pleased to complete their meeting with him. At the post event meeting I was given a hotwash of what they saw, why they thought he was unprepared, what they thought the problem MIGHT be and how I and my ASM's MIGHT choose to fix what they saw. They also said the majority of the issue lay with the boy (and most likely a possible box check and forget attitude)but that they could see how the fix they suggested could benefit not just this one but might make a better experience for all upcoming Scouts. Given the scenario I actually agree and don't feel slighted for me. I am worried about how how this Scout feels and have already had two additional conversations with him about the situation and that is isn't about "No" but about you just really are missing a little bit of "What this Troop thinks a Scout of this rank should be able to do and be." and that that means the Adults are really interested in helping him be a great Scout and not simply busting his chops for some unknown reason. My point is, the BoR is there for a reason -and can be a useful tool for the SM in ensuring standards aren't slipping(see Eagle thread going on right now) or that some new evolutions in teaching may be more useful than what is going on right now or some other problem or opportunity with the program. Now if they start kicking them back all of the time it may be that they are over-reaching or that I'm not doing my job - either way it's coffee time with somebody.

The first legacy my predecessor left me was a certain Eagle prospect -who did make it. I will never again go through what I did to get him through. I was confused and at the time didn't want my failure to support him to be the reason he failed - I was wrong, I didn't support him I dang near carried him across. Now, as soon as they cross the Life threshold I begin the preparations - by giving them their packet the number of days until they are 17years 364 days and and reminding them of the exact phrase listed above "YOUR lack of planning or preparation is NOT an emergency to ME." - I am also considering the T-shirt, or just getting it added across the shoulders of my current Troop T.

And there's the trick - learning, and having a vision of the anticipated outcome. I believe that someone who is committed to learning as they go CAN lead without being the duty expert in all Scouting skills. But the Leadership style does come into play it's almost impossible to do the "authoritarian" style w/o being the master of all skills you are going to come across. The "servant-leader" has plenty of opportunity to grow along with his charges in skill and it also gives opportunity for them to learn form his personal challenges and how he deals with them also. So, IMHO, no you do not necessarily need to know before you can lead but you must be willing to grow.

Back to packsaddles post, It's a requirement for passing. What if every person who failed to find the whistle failed? Would you still view it the same way? It's not about the risk of the unclear water(reach throw row go - only with proper support) it's about testing the SKILL we're attempting to test, not seeing how lucky someone is finding things in murky water. If we need to let's ADD that but this requirement needs to stay as is, IMHO.

In my understanding and either direct experience or what I have been told by our Camps Range operators and and by the Council Staff: The NCS our folks have gone to have always had NRA staffers teaching the courses - the NCS students came away with the proper NRA certs. I haven't been there, I have no firsthand knowledge of this. As to the Military thing, there are a lot of folks out there who have literally years of time on ranges - who have or had military certifications - who might well be able to operate a BSA range - EXCEPT BSA require the NRA certifications. Which is fine. There are alot lots of self-aggrandizing folks with no training but lots of range time as shooters who would enjoy the thought of being in charge of that situation - they in particular need to be kept out of the positions until they get some training - from wherever... But is the youth on that range any safer with an NRA instructor who has only had his Camp School Training? And little or no practical experience? Than with someone who has run thousands of hours of ranges with the appropriate training? But lacks the NRA cert? It's moot, until those military experienced folks can pony up the time and cash to hit NCS or the NRA schools. And in my case is one more thing I can't personally justify right now.

vdill, I think you're making my point, this is a clear water in pool requirement...

Ah, but perdidochas, There's the rub, there IS a time limit that I promise you has nothing to do with leeway to FIND the object, it's all about making the performance under stress which is provided by the difficulty AND the time limit - which includes exiting the pool. I see finding it in unclear water as a trick "Wow, you got lucky and found it" - not a test of the skills required to get the brick out of the water. If we are talking about recovery operations then I have no issue training in turbid water as described -but if it's turned into a recovery then let's all be safe and be certain not to create another victim, things are bad enough already - but rescue operations are entirely different beasts and trusting to luck may wind up being what is required to keep it from becoming a recovery operation - but we need to instill some basic qualifications first - like can the trainee put out the effort required to get down to the brick, get it to the surface and swim it to the edge get it out and then get out himself - then let's work on the more difficult stuff.

As to getting the Certificate from your Council - we have been warned to plan at least 30 days from request to receipt of the certificate. I don't know what they have to do to get it but seems odd to me that it would take 30 days to get a proof of insurance for an existing policy.

Unfortunately, at least in our Council there are NO waivers for prior experience regardless of certification or tenure performing a paid range position. (Former Line Supervisor,Pit boss, Line Boss, Coach, RSO, and RO for various military ranges) RO's in our Council are allowed to operate ranges without supervision of a Shooting Sports Director - but they must be currently NRA certified Shooting Sports Instructors at a minimum. Except for Cub Scouts and Air Rifles - there is a Cub Scout RO designation that is also taught by a Council approved NRA Instructor. Be aware that any Range you operate without a properly qualified operator supervising it will most likely remove you from the Insurance window and possibly place you, personally, directly in the legal line of fire if a mishap were to occur.

Lots of good positions above, a lot to think about. Adding to the Fray - What do you want to do? What will be the best for the Pack in the long run? What will be the best for the Troop in the long run? As to your boys - they will both wind up in the Troop in a couple of years if your oldest will stay... if you stay with the Pack for now - then you can move into an ASM position and possibly become the SM later if you move up to the Troop with your younger son but if you know that's your future then start looking for and training the next CM even as you start doing the job - he(or she) will be a key player in the long-term health of your new Troop.

Not just for summer camp but for any outing, we added a flat fuel surcharge to the camping fee last year when gas spiked. Before that we simply reimbursed any driver who asked and presented a fuel receipt (Driver fuels before trip - fuels after trip - the after trip receipt is reimbursed)from the Troop general fund. The fuel surcharge was the first increase in any Troop level fee in more than 15 years - now fuel receipts are charged to the camping fee first and then any remaining unpaid receipts reimbursed from the general Troop fund. Any unused camping fee/fuel surcharge is held over for longer trips.(This message has been edited by Gunny2862)

If for no other reason, with all of the posturing that goes on about how well our troops are doing and what great leaders we are in the real world; It's encouraging to realize from these pages that we all have some struggles. As well as any number of instances of info I have gained from being exposed to which unfortunately I can't catalog for you.

Since this is in the open program area you'll probably get a lot of Scoutmasters - So, what does the boy want to do? When the Mom isn't within earshot.

shortridge, It's just the way WE do things. I don't mind the fireguard concept but it seems to break down( and an unattended fire in these heavily forested areas is NOT going to happen) and I am against having an adult have to get up or keep a parallel watch - so we always kill the thing before the last adult goes down - at lights out. As to the food and trash storage; yes it's great if it gets done by the person doing the job but the supervision belongs in the hand of the SPL or PL so if it needs to be corrected either I can let the animals have the food or spread the trash or the SPL/PL can take the appropriate action as they see fit - either fix it themselves or wake the offender... not a rule per se but the way WE do it...