grmaerika

You are not alone. We had a Sinclair gas station with the big green Dino. Ahhh, the good old days when the guy pumped your gas, checked your oil and cleaned your windows....and even gave lollipops all around to the station wagon full of screaming brats. That was service! The milkman delivered to our back door and put the milk in a little metal cooler--it came in glass bottles where the cream set on top....and then they switched to cardboard....strange. The diaper service truck came around if you were a LUCKY mom...out with the smellies in with the new. Groceries were ALWAYS bagged by a store employee into big brown paper bags. The best part was us kids got to live dangerously...we even crapped in the woods.

Everybody sounds alot more organized than us. I'm going to suggest this sight to the new leaders. Thanks again for the good input.

All helpful advice. Thank You.

Thanks for your reply. That is a huge help. That is along the lines of what I was thinking, at least splitting it into two groups, or like you said, possibly three. I like the idea of meeting all together to see how we could split it up. I would love to mix the schools because the Catholic school parents are all eager, and have involved Dads. All I did was ask the first Dad I met if he wanted to be Den Leader and he said "Sure!". I'm not sure how this will all work out.I really feel we could get other Den Leaders from the Catholic school,but this year I have to concentrate on working, and am unable to commit to the Den leader position.My co-leader is already volunteering for everything at our school and does not want to add den-leader to the list.Our school is majority immigrant and minority, so it has alot of challenges.Thanks for your input, I'm going to suggest what you mentioned.

Is there a hard and fast rule about the number of boys allowed in one Den? We just had our JSN and got 6 news boys from our local Catholic school, and might get 8-12 total from there , total. Our Den only has 3 (possibly 4) boys, and we did not get anyone on JSN from our public schools. I was Den Leader last year, but have to step down due to work. We recruited a Den Leader from the Catholic school bunch, and we have a mom from last year who is willing to assist. Our Cubmaster wants to keep all the Catholic school bunch together in their own den since they have such a high number, and keep our little group separate. I'm wondering why can we not just have a super large den? That way we would have all the parental support we need. I'm willing to help out as much as I can, and the other parents seemed super eager to join in the Scouting experience. So,any ideas on Den size?

Welcome, I'm new to scouting and new here also. It's been a great help and inspiration. I hope you like it.

What is the meaning of the BSA symbol that we all wear on our uniforms? The small round one with the purple background and the fleur-dis-lis with the knot?

So, for all you moral relativists out there, do you think any sort of "morals" have a place in in scouting? Do you have any sort of moral compass? I thought that is what the Boy Scout insignia stood for--a moral compass pointing true north. I'd be curious to know what sort of behavior you deem "good" or "exemplary", since as leaders of boys and young men we are to set an example.You don't seem to care at all about sexual morality...which is in my view the most important. What do you consider sexually moral?Or immoral?Do you condone sex outside of marriage? People who swing both ways? Having more than one sexual partner? Do you think divorce is good? Do you find any of these things to have anything at all with morality? and if all these things are good or ok, why isn't it good to shoot your mother? People get hurt in all of these other circumstances. Why not just go around stabbing people? Is it ok just because the wounds don't show? Someone asked how I form these sweeping opinions.....by being raised at the bottom of the craphole when it comes to morality...by being raised by moral relativists..by being single mother, by getting to know the people hardest hit by immorality, yes, gritty mean street smart man -killer lesbians and straight up hard core cross dressing queers, alcoholics,drug addicts, thieves,etc... I thought by getting involved with scouting I'd come into contact with people who believed possibly in right and wrong and a few morals, or at least people who wanted something better for their kids. I get the sneaking suspicion nobody on here has seen jack squat of what immorality can do...excpept possibly if you work as a prison guard.How do you get off with this morally relative attitude and think you are doing any body any good? You are not! And I'm sure you will have some morally relevant comeback for that.I'm just keeping up with this thread to see how low you all will sink.Personally, I'm glad to be out of the swill hole, and I hope no other poor kid has to go there.

i don't know how old you are, but there is nothing new about gangs or ethnic conclaves within big cities. Ever seen the movie or read the book"Gangs of New York?".It seems this has been and always will be part of the urban landscape. First generation immigrants tend to have connections here from their home country, and live in the same areas where they share a common language, can network, buy their ethnic foods ,etc..It's a survival mechanism for new comers.Alot of people come as refugees and are not highly educated, but some people are . It's my impression that people tend to ghettoize more if they are on the lower economic rungs of the ladder, so you get alot of kids from the same ethnicity and lower economic status going to the same schools. Then you get the generational cycle of poverty, where people just can't for whatever reason seem to break out. I see this as nothing new. But,what is new it seems is that degenerate behavior,over sexualized popular culture, horrible filthy language, sloppy dress and scantily clad women, violence , is totally accepted, celebrated, even encouraged by popular media. Being religious is seen as something out of the dark ages. All these rude behaviors used to be something in the juke joints and bawdy houses,or at least seen as degenerate, things that good girls and boys did not do. Now you cannot even watch network TV without encountering smut and bad language. Watch an episode of "Lost in Space" from the 60's. My God, it sounds like they are practically speaking Shakespear! That is why we do not even subscribe to cable TV, so much garbage.Even tho I cannot understand my neighbors who mostly speak Arabic, Amharic,Spanish, and other African languages, and we are in kind of a little ghetto type building, we have a great thing in common----the value of family. These immigrants come with strong family ties and respect for the family means something.It is a struggle for every parent here to fight against popular American culture.Everybody comes here to make $$$ and escape war and poverty. It is an uphill battle to work a low paying job, survive in the city, and keep your kids from absorbing every piece of garbage they are bombarded with.Thank God for organizations like Scouts, YMCA, church youth groups and schools that give a darn. I'm really scared of what High School will bring for my grandson. I just think our culture is permeated with filth, drugs, violence, and the kids are acting like wild animals.Is this progress? Number one problem---the demise of the family.Kids without a dad at home to kick their butt for acting up at school just tend to get big and out of control..who's raising the kids?Single parenting is darn hard!Look at marriage stats especially for African americans. Look at out of wedlock birth stats.But in this ---hey, anything goes, "The kids are all right" culture, who pays? The kids!Save a child, keep your family intact, preach those old fashioned Judeo Christian values and you can be part of the solution. And also, extend a hand to a struggling parent. A neighborhood used to mean something. Twenty sets of parents keeping an eye on you.Everybody in each others business. Those were the good old days.

Sherminator, i am saying that the opposite could happen just as often. Now, most couples are heterosexual, and maybe one family in.. I don't know the figure,20?, just for examples sake might have a child that turn s out to be gay. Now, reverse that. You have homosexual couples adopting kids.Say three kids for instance, I'm wagering that that there is a good chance their kids will choose a homosexual lifestyle, by choice, since that is how they were raised. It is less likely that they will be heterosexual, because of the modeling of their parents behavior.It all becomes choice, not biology. Which I argue right now is that homosexuality is as much a choice in our day and age, as it is is a biological drive. I choose to kiss women and live with a woman because I can(not really.. Oh I AM a woman BTW), because men have been a total headache to me all my life. That's a choice. Since i've made that choice and have a daughter( good chance that a lesbian actually has a child by a relationship with a man), there's a good chance she will decide she likes girls too, since that's what mommy does.That's why I'll never buy into the whole kids do what comes naturally to them by their own biological nature even tho they are raised by gay parents.It all becomes choice. Do you really think lesbian women like men? My experience is most do NOT. Why would they ever be a good parent for a boy. The same goes vise versa for gay men. Most of them do not like women. And all gays have a distorted view of the opposite sex. How is that a healthy environment for a child? if it's any anything goes world, then let it all go.. you know porn, drugs, theft etcc. Just let it all go. Who cares anymore? Many a lesbian woman has a child or children by a relationship or relationships with men! Really, how gay is she?

the point made that at a young age kids try to mimic or please their parents is exactly why I'm against gay marriage. Period. It's not limited to two consenting adults. It extends into family. Nobody will ever convince me that if little Johnny grows up with two dads kissing and sleeping in the same bed, he will not grow up with this a a set standard for behavior that has been taught to him and modeled for him. Regardless of his natural tendency to be heterosexual. Sexuality is a far far cry from the color of your skin. people choose all the time to be homosexual, they do not choose the color of their skin.it's a myth that everyone who is gay is born that way. Many many people do the flip flop because they have no success with heterosexual relationships , experience abuse etc...Guess what, they don't have any greater success in their gay relationships!Sex and sexuality should have no place in scouting, except that is the BSA, but inevitably family and relationships does come into the picture.That is why I'll never support gay marriage. It all becomes "choice"..i mean why not go have sex with a camel for that matter? In that world absolutely nothing is considered perverse. And if you want to be open to all that, why have any moral guidelines at all? It all becomes perfectly relevant.

Hey! What's wrong with being a Redneck? Many a good man has a burnt red neck, and people sing about being rednecks proudly on country radio.....Just poking a stick in the wasp's nest here....

It wasn't long ago when being in a racially mixed marriage in Virginia was illegal. I experienced the tale end of this back in the late 70's. Not getting served, getting spaghetti spilled on me in a restaurant, not being rented apts.Shock and wide eyes when I informed people ,yes these are my kids.Strange comments and jeers etc...And they still have the box called "other" on the race section of forms.Seems like everybody has their turn. It might be akward for me to have to interact with "two dads" at a Pack meeting.Even tho I've been discriminated against myself I still have my own discriminations. Just like the people who looked at my family and thought"that's just not right". I just ignored them and really, it never bothered me. I laugh at the comments now when I think of them.But I still really puzzle at the "other" box on forms. Seeing as so , so many people are mixtures of alot of things, especially in the southeast.Black and White is pretty ridiculous.I think this is what people have tried to explain to me on the gender issue. I see male and female and a very few "others", but some people say there are like six different genders or something. I never really researched it. I guess there was White Troops and Black troops back in the not too distant past .Maybe we'll have something like that in regards to sexual identity in the not too distant future, like one person said, more of a local thing.Which got me to wondering--what are the rules in Europe on this?. Like for Swedish or Dutch Scouts for example.

These are some great ideas. Our resident camp at the council camp costs 160$/youth-70$/adult for 3days and two nights. The day camp is 175$ for four days.The day camp is useless unless a person can afford to take all four of those days off of work, because the commute would be insane, really impossible to squeeze in . DC is second to LA I think in traffic. So these fun outings you all have put together sound great. Even tho a couple of parents have said they want to camp, I don't think they have any equipment to camp. We have one family with a park ranger dad, and I think they are the only ones who have any idea about camping. I haven't camped for 40 years!I don't think our Pack is really into camping because when I had reservations about moving on as Wolf leader , mentioning camping as one reasons, a Webelos leader said we don't really do alot of camping.Our Pack doesn't look too rugged to tell you the truth. Our Tigers are really active, wiry, and busting out with energy. I hope to continually keep physical fitness and outdoor activity as a big part of our program.We had a great hike at Great Falls Natl. Park on saturday. We had to keep them from beating each other with sticks, but all in all it went great.They actually got worn out.It's great to read what you all have been doing.

Scoutfish...aww,you'll look real purdy! Have fun and congrats to your Scouts for winning that bet.

Ugh.... I just hope scouting never gets that complicated. The age old question, who's gonna use which bathroom? Sorry, my world is a simple place. I meet the transgender people in the hall of our highrise building here and just view them as "other" neither male nor female.I exchange pleasantries with them etc...but to me it all begins to look like Star Trek the Next Generation. Yes, I know my honesty makes me vulnerable to vicious verbal assaults.But in all seriousness, I think the future will kind of look like Star Trek. Thankfully, I will be dead before I ever have to work or live with the likes of DATA or other sundry cyborgs.But Scouting will probably still be around, morphed into something new.

Yes, alot of people would leave because it would be against their religion to support an organization that supported gay marriage and had openly gay---like you knew they were gay when they signed up--leaders.Because alot of people still view homosexuality as a grave sin.But since we have not got to that point in our history yet, for now we all have various views on the subject, because we have people from many different religions and denominations.It defenitely has not come up in our den meetings and Pack meetings. We were just told by the CM that we had to believe in a "higher power", that's about as PC as you can get on that subject.Just for fun, how would the gay marriage supporters feel in regard to allowing in "trans-gender" people? You know that's coming in right along with the openly gay people don't you?I'm just laughing to myself right now, because in my mind the BSA will need a TOTAL makeover. The possiblities are endless!

All very helpful, Thank you.

Yes, I know my point of view is regarded as ,"far right", "religious fanatic", yes, I'm Catholic. Be that as it may I still predict that allowing gay leadership and the acceptance of gay marriage will cause a big rift.All the Catholics will drop out for one, and say goodbye to using the Catholic school for PWD. You might as well forget any Muslims being involved too.Everyone can have their own personal viewpoints on this, i've shared mine.I'm sure many of the people in our Pack share the support of gay marriage stance. I defenitely do not share my viewpoint on this within our meetings, because as the rules are now, i'm happy to be involved with the BSA.But, if it changed, alot of people would drop out and alot of different people would come in and it will be a very different organization.Perhaps us strangely religious people will have to have the creativity and drive to create our own organization. Is that more fair?

I am under the impression that camping with Cubs is strictly regulated , having to take place at an approved scouting facility, with alot of guidelines etc..My Den parents are not interested in the day camp or cub resident camp because, too far , too expensive, etc...I heard them discussing,"can't we just do something ourselves?". I have not presented any options to them at all except the approved Cub camp programs in our area. Where do I find the specific guidelines on camping with the Cub Scouts? I want to know them and also to print that out and present it to all the parents. They can camp on their own wherever they want,and work on beltloops etc.. but it won't be an official Scout campout, right? Also, I have no interest in doing this with them. Den leader is strictly by the book.

If the prediction about gay marrige sweeping across the land is correct, then I predict a split in the BSA similar to the Episcopal church and others who are going through this rift.I suppose it will mean the majority opinion will retain the right to call themselves BSA. Of course with the redefining of gender I don't think that majority will be able to call themselves BSA for long. "Boy" is too gender specific. I pray the BSA keeps it's current policy on homosexuals and that people who really support gay marriage and everything that goes along with it will have the creativity and drive to start their own organization.Some people still believe in the birds and the bees,animal going into heat,the process of procreation observed in nature. Some people cherish their world as God created it and that it is a self sustaining entity without human kind even being a part of it.People who are "strangely religious" understand this very basic point of existence, and hold that marriage is a part of that natural order. Male and female equals more of whatever animal species we are talking about.I thought the BSA was big into nature. That's why I joined.

Thanks for the explanation of "everyday math". Yes, that is what we use here. It does seem like a big jumble , but glad to hear it will get repeated and re-used.Seems kind of like how Sesame Street was a fast paced show that jumped blip , blip, blip to educate kids.They encourage the kids to get on the everyday math website also, which I do not like. I don't care if they use it at school, but at home I want my Grandson to learn without the computer.This is only first grade. I think they can do the same work with pencil and paper at this level and get more writing practice in. Also the computer automatically types from left to write. I'm finding he is having problems because he is writing the numbers from right to left. There is just more thinking that goes along with doing things the old fashioned way, which I think is good for kids brains.OK, I know i am already obsolete, but I just don't see that all the technology is really improving education when it comes to the basics.Do they still teach cursive writing in school?

I can sympathize with you somewhat. But take this into account. The Polish speakers are still in the minority, sure they are irritating to you, but the situation has become alot worse by focusing on it so much. You'd do yourselves a big favor by learning to ignore people more.Just ignore them if you can't engage them. I've experienced this "talking about you" in a foreign language at the work place...how many times? Yeah it's irritating,especially when you begin to understand the language a little bit, but it's also a blessing not to understand it, and not care about it.It's alot worse if you are in the minority and everyone is speaking another language.Too bad it got to this level you are describing.The best thing is to be fair in assigning duties, have the same expectations for participation in Den activites, exchange civilities with people, hello, good evening,good bye, etc..if you have nothing else in common, just stick with that. It is challenging to have to work and live with people from all over the world.But hey, this is America.

It is defenitely throwing me for a loop helping my 6 yo grandson with his homework. I do not understand how they are teaching the kids nowadays. I went to grade school in the 60's and it seems we went at a much slower pace in reading and math. We also did alot of practice learning how to write. We had alot more free time with Mom at home, and did not usually do preschool. Exercise and music and art were all included. It was interesting to go to a sixth grade class re-union last year and see what everyone was up to.Some real surprises! Most everyone was doing quite well, and the kids you figured were going into trades who weren't the best at academics did just that and are working successfully, owning their own businesses or in partnerships. Some people just went way into other areas you'd never guess. Except for one boy who died in prison everyone came out OK.We had discipline in the classroom, a multi ethnic environment(Chicago's south suburbs)came from not-rich working class families, and no one was seen as particularly"special" Come in and do the work, if you act up, go to the corner, or the principals office(very scary!)The male teachers were intimdating as well as respected!They did not beat our butts at school, but our Mom's sure did at home!A slower time, and most importantly. there were FAMILIES. Big difference from today.Mom and usually Dad.Many brothers and sisters. Our kids are stressed to the max now with 10plus hour long days with before and after school care.Everybody has a "syndrome" of one kind or another.Everybody thinks their kid is so "special". Hey we were alot less "special " when there were 4 or 5 more at home.I say bring back uniforms for kids, get back to teaching the basics the "right" way( like don't tell kids to spell the words anyway they want, and then expect them to unlearn all that and jack them up to a third grade vocabulary in first grade and expect them to be good spellers)They are mixing in decimals, tally marks, dominoes, money and everything all together in the first grade!What IS that?I try to help with the math ,but I cannot figure out what the hell they are tryng to teach.A good program for kids does not have to be high cost. We used to get graded on handwriting. I do not think they care at all about that anymore.Really I don't think kids brains are being alLowed to develop properly anymore. Too much video, not enough exercise, too much immediate gratification, no discipline.Art and music are great for kids brains.We learned to read music .We sang alot.Scouting to me is a much better learning program than what the schools are offering. At least kids get to do things with their hands, go explore, dig into different areas of science etc... and be physically active. It's way more holistic.Bring back a well rounded approach to children, and restore the family, that would be a big help.But hey, in all fairness, I don't try to keep up with everything people do now, I see no value in it.We can't even take care of our own planet. Teaching kids to pick up trash is great, and also letting them just run around and scream and yell, and fall and get hurt and laugh with their friends WITHOUT grownups hanging around all the time.There is alot to be said for letting kids be kids.Stop trying to cram so much in their brains at one time. Most kids can't process it.Remember...chew before swallowing???

Yes, they can poll anyone they want to to get the desired result.A poll by the RCC might get a different result. I for one do not care if the BSA is considered "out of step" I hope it stays that way. People who want to support gay marriage can create their own organization. They certainly have a fine model to follow and they can have any rules that they want or don't want for that matter.