Gonzo1

Merlyn, the court in 1947 could had no more of an idea of what Jefferon's "intent" was than you or me. The constitution is what it is. We have a private club and you seem to really want in. You might be better off in a good old boys camping club. Not really sure why you want in, other than to try to dismantle what we have. That does't seem nice. We ahve requirement to join, much as AA has, I wouldn't dream of forcing myself into you group, but wait a minute, I think I got an idea. Hey everybody! Let's all try to join the American Atheists! Here's the website: www.atheists.org Let's be honest when applying for membership, let's tell them about our religious beliefs and when we're denied, let's claim that our civil rights are being violated because we want to join and spread the Good Word to of mankind. We have the right to do so and let's join now!

Merlyn, I could personally care less if a school, funded with taxpayer dollars has any club the school or students wish. In fact, there is a high school in Cleveland, Georgia high school student wanted to have a gay friendly club. The administration decided to close all non-athletic clubs, but was later forced to have the club because of a suit brought by a student and ACLU to have a club for gay,lesbian and transgender people. The school was FORCED to have a club that the community (the adults ie the parents, principal and school board) didn't want. I mentioned here a couple of years back that if a school wants to have an atheist club, good for them. The problem with your main argument is that you and people like you believe there should be an absolute separation of church and state. Funny thing, when I read the constitution, I don't see it. I know, you're an attorney and you think you far better than me what "prohibiting the free exercise there of" really means too. It mean I get to practice whatever religion I want. And for what it's worth, I pretty agree with Beavah's post above. Have a nice day!

Atheism has no place in the BSA. It continues to be a private group which can admit (or decline admittance to) anyone it chooses, for whatever reason. No gays, no atheists, no girls (other than Venturing/explorers). This really isn't such a difficult concept to grasp. There are other organizations to which a person can join. The American Atheists website says that "Membership is open to all who agree with our Statement of Aims and Purposes." I couldn't find them on the website, hmmm..... what are they? Does American Atheists allow Christians? I doubt it. Wouldn't that group be stronger and more "enlightened" by allowing me and others like me to join?

I think Baden Powell would not be turning over in his grave, but he would be spinning like a lathe! And I don't think it would be merely because of merit badge factories, eagle mills and the like. It would also include the uniform changes, softening of standards and getting away from the basics. I agree with Beavah, da scout gets da badge for what he is able to do, not for sittin in da class. The class provides a means to teach the skills and allow for some practice, but I don't think it would be enough by itself to earn the badge. Afterall, you don't pass a high school or college class just because you sat in the class and maybe turned in homework, you had to pass the test, show some proficiency. In the end, I suppose it doesn't really matter what Baden Powell would "think", ask yourself if you're helping deliver the program?

PeteM, I never thought that camporees work that way. They're generally competitions. I don't have a problem with a camporee (a competition) that revolves around the skills of a merit badge. However, it should not be arranged so that the scouts earn the badge "automatically" at the camporee, but rather that the scout can then approach an MBC and easily earn the badge because he trained for the camporee, attended it and applied the skills at the camporee and then went through the merit badge process with an MBC.

I think it's OK to have MB classes from time to time, once in a while. Maybe the troop has a particular interest in something and someone is willing to teach it. I don't think it should run the whole meeting and I don't think it should be routine.

Brent, Congratulations! I remember when you had that small number, but it now sounds like you're really rockin' have fun!

bnelon44, The last time I was on staff for IOLS was about 3 or 4 years ago. I can't imagine why patrol method wouldn't be taught, seems like that would be a fine place..... a weekend of camping, learning the skills and so on. Go figure. Maybe the "Troop Method" handbook will follow too. I guess moms and dads will be taught how to cook to order.

I think the 10 minute presentations at roundtable would supplement (refresher training for veteran scouters) what should be taught during Outdoor Leader Skills and leadere specific training. Gonzo

I can only say that I admire Merlyn's determination and dedication to "his" cause. I don't agree with any of it, but, I admire his devotion to his position. Debating with Merlyn is exhausting. Accordingly, I have decided to continue my self imposed ban on debating with Merlyn. Merlyn, I hope you find whatever it is you're looking for. I suppose you give some of us food for thought. Again, I don't agree with you, but in the end, I admire you devotion to your position. Best wishes. Gonzo1

Nolesrule, Let me add them up: beer + hamburger + ketchup + rice = 4. I suppose for your dinner I'd recommend a a chekered plastic table cover, a lousy paper plate, a solo cup (or can coozy) and a plastic spork! Go Gators!

I suppose yu could count camping in a cave, lean to or under a tarp too. I would not count anything in a building, including a cabin.

I've noticed that Troop Method troops are like Webelos III

No alcohol, it's not allowed. If you feel you must cook with wine, I suppose you'll also use white table cloths, fine crystal and china and sterling silver. No bottle = no temptation = following the G2SS

Aside from my Eagle Scout award, I'd say the embroidered patch on my neckerchief (as a youth). A new scout was presented with a plain neckerchief, but traded it in for one with the embroidered patch as he earned Tenderfoot. A trail patch from the Ammaquonsippi Trail along the Spoon River in Illinois, the trail was shut down some years ago. SPL badge of office.

Oak Tree, You want to know what would change, right? The make up of the Supreme Court would have to change. If it gets packed with enough liberal activist justices, then another suit could come along and then we'd get some liberal garbage thrown at us like girls, atheists and gays. It's the make up of the SCOTUS that make presidential elections SO important, nominations (and subsequent confirmation) last a generation. Merlyn, you mentioned on 12/12/09 "There's no "right" not to be bothered or annoyed per se." - - - - Kinda relates to atheists and Nativity scenes, crosses and so on, just look away, look away, look away. (but I digress)

What Packsaddle said . . . plus: Camp Rainey Mountain in NE Georgia offers COPE, traditional camping as well as a 50 miler on area trails Packsaddle mentioned plus the Bartam Trail he and I hiked a couple of miles about 2 years ago, lots of options. Enjoy!

I just checked the woolrich website, but didn't see the red coat listed there. I remember about a year or two ago that someone here mentioned that a manufacturer make a similar red coast for a lot less but the pockets are angled differently, does anyone have any information on this? Thanks, Gonzo1

Take about 2 inches of parachute cord, make a loop the size you want and sew the loop to the back of the patch along the border of the patch.

We all called him Mr. Schoeller. We called ASM's by their last names also.

Interesting thread. Since palms go hand in hand with earning additional merit badges, how about a new palm? I don't care for the idea of a knot. However, the scout who earns them all have about 139 square knots, each on the back of the sash. Gonzo1

With all of the other "important" issues out there, why must this be done right now, right away and without much debate. Dems seem to suggest that without this so-called reform, the world will stop turning. Health insurance is a PRIVELEDGE, not a RIGHT. Where does it say that everyone MUST be insure, and that it is tied to your job? Here's a viable public option: Buy your own stinking insurance! Gee, that way you can BUY what YOU want and not have other taxpayers pay for it. Gonzo1

One tradition my troop had was to present the new scout with a "plain" neckerchief when he joined, but he would trade it in for the "custom" necker when he "sealed" his membership when he earned Tenderfoot. For me, that was 35 years ago, the tradition is alive to this day. Also, my old troop held it's annual fundraiser, a pancake breakfast on the first Saturday in December, it still goes on and pulls in a lot of money. Gonzo

I suppose one way to show how patrol method works is to apply it. That is, have the adults elect a PL who "runs" the patrol, and APL in his absence. The PL could put together the duty roster, the patrol could make it's own flag too. They could even have their own yell and call- - - presumably the moans and grown of their aching joints or some such thing . If one parent is always cooking, the others don't get to help, etc, just like the boys.

Packsaddle, Everyone says hello. All is well.