Gonzo1

Here's another: This doesn't say anything about only applying to "criminal law" From Wikipedia: An ex post facto law (from the Latin for "from something done afterward") or retroactive law, is a law that retroactively changes the legal consequences of acts committed or the legal status of facts and relationships that existed prior to the enactment of the law. I guess it really is just about the money and I hope the city council gets what they derserve. I hope people will run against the incumbents and vote them out.

Merlyn: Here's another: "The 'words and the intent' of the Ex Post Facto Clause encompass '[e]very law that changes the punishment, and inflicts a greater punishment, than the law annexed to the crime, when committed.' Calder v. Bull, 3 U.S. (1 Dall.) 386, 390 (1798) (opinion of Chase, J.)." Again, if the scouts were OK before, they should be OK today, and tomorrow.

Merlyn: A qucik search of Ex Post Facto revealed: "An ex post facto law is a law passed after the occurrence of an event or action which retrospectively changes the legal consequences of the event or action." Since the lease was originated in 1928, I doubt SERIOUSLY that anyone had a complaint about the BSA back then and if everything was otherwise hunkydory until now, why now? You just gotta follow the money. Someone is whining and complaining and I hope all who voted against the BSA get voted out of office. When did the Home Rule Charter and Fair Practices Ordinance come about? That's when the "ex post facto" comes into play. If the Boy Scouts were OK before, they should be OK now.

I know, it must be the attack that blew up the Sears Tower, or was that the Empire State Building, The Golden Gate Bridge or the Statue of Liberty? Oh, I know WE HAVEN'T BEEN ATTACKED AGAIN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Shazzamm Merlyn! If we aren't safer afterall. Ft Dix attack was thwarted and now this bulletin from the Associated Press: 4 Charged in JFK Airport Terror Plot Saturday, June 2, 2007 4:44 PM EDT The Associated Press By ADAM GOLDMAN Follow this link: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/T/TERRORISM_PLOT?SITE=MAHYC&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT Sleep tight Merlyn while the feds and the military keep clowns like you safe.

Merlyn, You wrote: "Same with the Boy Scouts' lease; it goes against the city's Home Rule Charter and Fair Practices Ordinance. The city can't subsidize a discriminatory organization." I don't think (me personally) that Home Rule Charter should apply, according to most lawyers, the BSA and the council should be Granfathered because they had the lease. Afterall, the council had the lease since 1928, there were no concerns about political correctness then and the council should be left alone. It would seem to me that "ex post facto" laws may apply. I don't really know for sure, I'm a doctor, not a lawyer, but I did save 15% on my car insurance last night by switching to Geico.

Merlyn, I hope the Cradle of Libery Council finds an angel (benefactor) out there and they move to another office building. It's just a building, but I also hope that the city council members who voted against the Boy Scouts get voted out of office. It doesn't matter if the council agrees with the rule or policy, that's just the way it is. I haven't had the opportunity to read the lease, if there is a one-year notice to terminate clause, then one year of notice should be provided, not a day less.

So if I got this right, the Cradle of Liberty council could have the rent FREE (or peanuts) in perpetuity or until Philadelphia needs some cash. Ya gotta follow the money, so much for Brotherly Love.

Perhaps other names for God can interchanged: Don't be afraid, I'm coming with the blanket or Fear not, the Comforter cometh Merlyn, I acknowledge that I may not have been completely correct, sorry. Gonzo

Merlyn You must really be a lawyer. You have parced everything I said into what you want it to be. Terrorism has DECREASED, ie, we haven't been attacked at home or at our embassies since 9/11 and neither has Spain or England or Australia and others as evidenced by thwarted attempts. As for a lot of countries being breeding grounds for terrorists, perhaps we should invade before they attack us. (Just maybe) It still isn't just about Iraq attacking us, but the terrorist Saddam supported. To use some of your legal stuff on you: I said, "you probably think Adolf Hitler was a good guy too" Therefore, I didn't actually say that you believe Hilter and Saddam are good guys, I suggested. I am an honest person who dislikes you. If we ever meet in person, I'll be kind and courteous and so on to you, I just won't like you. I thank god every day for President Bush. He's not perfect, I don't agree with everything he says or does, but he is surely better than either Gore or Kerry. What would Gore or Kerry have done? Try to sit down and have coffee? try to understand why they don't like us? Try to be inclusive? Guess what - - - - They (extreme muslims) hate our guts and want to kill all of us. I wish I knew how to download audio clips of politicians saying things. Like Bill clinton Hilary clinton, Ted hiccup Kennedy, John Kerry, Al Gore and a bunch of others who all said that Saddam had WMD's and would use them. Those folks are all D E M O C R A T S aren't they? Democrats all said Saddam was dangerous and a Republican did something about after 13 or 14 warnings. The Bush administration hasn't forgotten about bin-laden, what is quickly becoming the forgotten war of the day, U.S. and coalition forces are in Afganistan killing taliban terrorists and looking for bin-laden. Personal opinion - - - he's dead. Priority? We went to Afganistan FIRST. Just so you know, I don't like you. I'll me nice, I won't call you names, I just disagree with you.

I think the letter is a good idea, but it should be personal, not a council generated form letter sent with bulk rate postage. A real signature, hand addressed and a real stamp shows there was some effort put into it. GWD, you could split up thie list, some for yu, a few for the CC, some for SPL, etc.

Merlyn, Oh nothing? Iraq was a breeding ground for terror. I'm sure you have as many firends serving today in Iraq as I do, (but really you probably don't) and I can say with certainty that things are far better now than before when the murderous dictator (the beloved of the left media here) was in power. smearing people? The only difference between Hitler and Saddam is time. Saddam didn't live and weild power long enough to kill 6,000,000 people, Saddam only killed about 800,000. The invasion of Iraq didn't decrease terrorist activity, it made it worse. How is increasing terrorist activity "better"? The GWOT is successful and paying offin great dividends. Further attacks have been thwarted here and abroad. I know, you're gonna say that 3,000 US soldiers have died while in the GWOT. That's right, each one a terrible loss. However, each soldeir a volunteer and he or she knew exactly what they were getting in for, not a college education, but to serve our country and that knowledge comes with the possiblilty of going to war. It's not that Iraq had anything to do D I R E C T L Y with the 9/11 attack, but indirectly. Saddam provided a training ground for terrorists.

I'm not so sure it's a monopoly. There's Campfire Girls, I mean Campfire USA, GSUSA, Boys Club I mean boys and Girls club, 4H, Spiral Scouts, Baden-Powel Scouting Association and whatever group anyone else wants to start. Merlyn, "as if Iraq had something to do with that attack." Um, let's see, try UN Resolution 1441, try the surrender documents Iraq signed at the end of the Gulf War in 1991 and how IRAQ WOULD COMPLY WITH UN RESOLUTIONS ALLOWING WEAPONS INSPECTORS INTO IRAQ TO ENSURE THAT WMD WERE NOT BEING MADE OR STORED. Then Saddam kicked out the inspectors, what did he have to hide, hmmm, WMD's!!! After the 9/11 attack, Saddam gave a death gratuity to surviving family members of the attackers! Bush Doctrine: You're either with us, or you're against us. Iraq or Sadam didn't have to actually do anything, Iraq and Saddam supported terroists, terror networks and had and used WMD against his own people. Saddam was given about 13 or 14 chances to comply before we invaded, he didn't and we went in. Why did we go into Germany? Aww never mind, you probably think Adolf Hitler was a good guy too. The bottom line is that Iraq aided, spported and approved of terrorists and terrorism. The Global War on Terror will be a long one on many fronts in many places, not just Iraq or Afganistan. It is far better to have the fight over there than over here (again). We aren't ready to have car bombings going off at our nearby mall, are we? Or having the city bus blow up and so forth, are we? Why do they do these things, because WE ARE AMERICANS! They want to kill you, me, your family my family, you neighbors family and so on. If you can read this post, thank a teacher, if you can read it in English, thank a veteran. Gonzo United States Navy 1982 - 1992 United States Navy Reserve 1992 - 1998 United States Army Reserve 1998 - 2006 (This message has been edited by Gonzo1)

Wow, It seems that BSA has been trying to bend over backwards to appeal to muslims for a while. The requirements for the Webelos badge were changed to put the mosque before church or synagogue in requirement 8e. Attend the mosque, church, synagogue, temple, or other religious organization of your choice, talk with your religious leader about your beliefs. Tell your family and your Webelos den leader what you learned. Doesn't it make sense to list items in some sort of order? Gee, I don't know, how about the overwhelming majority of BSA members attend churches, then synagues. How many muslims are in BSA, about a dozen? I'm not trying to be funny, it doesn't seem like muslims are knocking on our door. I'm for legal immigration, not illegal immigration. I agree that we should stop muslim immigration. If arabs (muslims) didn't fly planes into the WTC, who did?

A rain fly that has a window in it isn't a quality rainfly, it's a toy. Go to www.campmor.com and get a Eureka Tetragon 7 for $79.99 It's 7x7, easy to set up, the 2 main poles attach via clips instead of sleeves - way easy. Lots of ventilation, huge rain fly. taped seams, gear loft, inside side pockets, about 6.5 miles, easy on packbacking trip, great value. My son has one and a Wenzel that has surprised me, plastic "bathtub floor" and surprisingly waterproof. I'd still get the Eureka.

OakTree, I'm trying to be patient and pick the right battles. If the SM is in fact MBC for Camping and he allows it, that's it. Troop is 4 or 5 years old and until NOW and I mean NOW, the troop has not used blue cards. Blue Cards!!!! Today, they are buying blue cards for summer camp and other use. They have been using the MB award card and the cmte thought THAT card was the blue card. Beavah, my son is indeed having fun adn learning. He'll have mastery of the skills. check PM too. Gonzo

Sometimes it's impossible. Women can't join a Masonic Lodge. Some people of one race or another can't join a particular Masonic Lodge. Men can't join Easter Star. Then there's the place of worship thing too. And NO, I'm not a Mason.

Hmm, I suppose that one could go either way, like Philmont, is that "long term" camping. I would agree that Northern Tier is a long trip, but not exactly "long term camp" Thanks, G

I'm patient, but it sure is frustrating. On a different note, troop is going to summer camp (naturally) in a few weeks. The troop will be staying in adirondacks. I reminded the other ASM that those nights don't count for Camping MB and asked if we could get a different capsite so the nights could count, and count for OA as well. The other ASM told me it didn't matter, the SM allows the nights for Camping MB. I told him he can't, that the requirement changed and the other ASM just shrugged. I do love this scouting stuff, but it is frustrating sometimes.

Gern, There really isn't a "perfect" troop, is there? BUT, there are many that are real close. I wish my son had chosen a different troop, there's one nearby that is rich in history, the whole package. BUT, my son feels welcom here, he likes it and likes the other boys. Lisa, With encouragement, the SM will come around. He now realizes the benefits of doing 2 night campouts, he must have gotten batteries for his flashlight. Some issues, especially the Good Ol' Boy thing will pass in a couple of years when boys age out, Eagle out, etc. I can be patient and work the SM a little at a time. Most things are indeed fairly minor, but they add up. Thanks, Gonzo

Local, I think it is a granny knot with the rebel flag pattern in the background. Beavah, with his usual wisdom has suggested that I go slow. Sometimes, I'm really aggitated though.

Mark S, Billy was NOT one of the four that crossed over, he is "experienced" and a first class. I'm all for helping them Tenderfoot quick, but they gotta earn it. Scoutldr, About 6 months ago when I first got involved w/ this troop, I noticed no flaps anywhere. When I asked a committee member about it, he said "we don't need any of that here, we're doing just fine". It's abou t the "good ole boy system". If these guys don't come up with the idea, it can't be any good. One parent actually said to me in a 'public' email that I'm not in the good ole boy network s o I may as well not be involved. Funny thing, I haven't seen that guy anywhere.

I mentioned to the other ASM that I was disappointed that some of the boys were sleeping in the building. I also said that the night shoudl NOT be counted for camping MB. The other ASM said that the SM would probably allow it. Since camping MB has been discussed here recently, I quoted the chapter and verse about sleeping in a tent the scout pitches (or helps pitch) or under the sky for 20 nights and that tents set up at summer camp are OK, but only one week and that adironacks and church buildings are not tents. The other ASM couldn't comment, he only said, "oh well, he allows it" I guarantee, he will not allow it anymore. Thanks for the comments.

That's exactly right. A bad day camping is better than ANY day at work. Years from now, no one may remember the sunny days at Camp Wazapamani, but they'll remember your Camporee forever.

Packsaddle and Beavah, You two hit it on the head. I especially like the bedwetting comment. Billy is OK, but the mom thought she was rewarding him for his hard work getting things ready for the B&G and crossing over. Training on the patrol method is on the way and the next time this scenario presents itself, I'll be armed with goodies after the mama's boys go to bed. To paraphrase Barry, I love this forum stuff (and of course the scouting stuff) Gonzo