GoldFox

I don't think it is the scout as much as the parents that can't let go. I have seen this with single children and children from large families. We had a boy who really wanted to be a scout but mom could not let go and he wasn't allowed to do a lot of the overnight events and finally quit. It was a shame. Dad was on work travel a lot and couldn't defend his son as much. I also think that parents are say things to their kids that we as leaders are not aware of. Last year a kid was told by his parents that they would come and get him if he wanted to come home. We never knew about this until he wanted to go home on the second day. The SM let him. I though this was a bad decision but not mine to make.

Found the rules and regs at this website http://www.scribd.com/doc/8919606/Rules-and-Regulations-of-the-Boy-Scouts-of-America. They are from 2007. Charter and bylaws are at http://www.scribd.com/doc/8919588/Charter-and-Bylaws-of-the-Boy-Scouts-of-America

John - were does one get a copy of the BSA Rules and Regulations? I could not find it on their website.

Actually some of our districts are looking into using these legacy leaders as trainers. It does 2 things 1)increases the training staff pool and 2) exposes these older leaders to the current program. I think that most councils instituting mandatory training are phasing it in so as not to have the massive numbers to be trained all at once.

BadenP - I totally agree with you. We have quite a few units in my district chartered by churches and other than the LDS units not a one pushes a religious program. In fact, some are barely providing a meeting place for their units. I am getting tired of the big focus on religion with some of our leaders and less on the other points of the scout law. They seem to over look behavior issues with the youth but go crazy about religious services at events. Just boggles my mind.

I think that mandatory training helps, especially with new leaders. Nothing is worse than someone trained years ago, running the program the way they learned, while the program has since changed. New leaders, trained properly on the current way the program is to run may be able to help ease these older or legacy leaders into these changes. We have a lot of legacy leaders in our council. Very few, if any, see any reason to change the way they do things or get retrained - whether their existing way is working or not. I think that requiring retraining may be just as important. It could be seen as a communication tool. Getting the information on how BSA has changed since you last took training can be very important. Yes, there is roundtable. However, I know a lot of leaders who come for the main session and then leave when the breakouts happen.

I guess there is no policy requiring or not requiring religious services at district and council events - huh? I don't know what will happen at this event because I referred to the entire matter to our DE but I will let you know. I like the idea, for future events, of allotting 1 hour of religious observance time and letting each unit handle their own services. It puts the responsibility on the unit and makes it easier for the event staff to plan the event. I totally understand certain religions and their requirements. That is why we planned the event the way we did, with a very early award presentation so those who need to can leave in plenty of time. Maybe I misunderstood, but I never saw scouting as a religious organization. Does duty to one's religion/God play a part, yes! But it should not be the overriding factor in everything that is done, unless your CO requires that it be. It has a minor part in the Mission and Vision of the BSA as it relates to the Scout Oath and Law. However, I always saw this program as much more about helping to guide young people into being better citizens - not preparing them for a religious ministry. I always believed that one's religion is a private and personal matter. I was taught to respect other religions but also not to push mine down the throat of others. Is it asking a lot to have others do the same?

I know what my council is doing as I am on the Council's training committee. We are looking at this mandate as well, but there is the age old issue of Scoutnet records. We were also wondering what other councils were doing.

The Catholics, in fact all christian religions will have plenty of time to get home on Sunday and attend their own service as we end very early for this exact reason. The purpose of our interfaith was to remind the boys of their duty to God and that a scout is Reverent - nothing else. There is a scouter who is also a priest. In fact he has created and the council has published an small book on on interfaith meditations on the scout law. It covers many religions, christian, jewish, muslim, etc. and is provided at our council summer camp to all troop members every year. I think going forward I am going to reccommend that we have a religious hour, where each unit takes care of their own scouts during any district event. Hopefully this will eliminate future issues.

Rumor, strictly rumor, has it that at the National Meeting in May BSA is doing to make leader training Mandatory. It is supposed to be phased in somehow. Apparently they will not allow a unit to recharter if their leaders (I guess based on the phase in) are not trained. Anyone have any scoop on this? Also, does your district/council do this already? If so, how is it working for you?

Too late. I didn't know about the warranty plus the Scout Shop is 75 miles away for me. I just cut off the "Boy Scouts of America" from an old worn out shirt and stitched in on - a lot easier. As for the pants .... I LOOOVE!!! the new canvas pants. They fit well, love the pockets and the fact that they zip off at the kness too!

In our case it wasn't a lack of youth per see. When and where they were originally chartered their was plenty of youth for them to get a good Troop going. The problem is that they moved after they were chartered because they didn't like the area and didn't want any potential problem boys in the unit. The real problem is the new SM was fired from his old unit. He was trying to run it like Webelos 3 and some of the older boys, who knew how is was supposed to work, pushed back against this. He made their life so bad in the unit that they quit. Then he started to single out boys who he felt were problems - on meds, etc. and tried to get them to quit too.

I don't have a problem with how a BOR is run - by boys or by adults. I have a problem with the example this unit's adults are setting for the boys. Mainly... 1. If you don't like the rules, make your own. 2. Lie (adults sign the advancement reports for BORs they did not sit on) I don't know about other units but in my unit, maybe because I am a trainer, the committee does not retest a boy. We ask what they like about the unit, what they would change, what they would like to see the unit do, which requirement was the hardest for you and why, etc.

John, I like your idea of block of time and letting individual units handle their own services. I think that is really appropriate, especially of the unit is all the same religion. Unfortunately that would still not fly with this person. When we were in the same unit a few years back, this person would repeatly leave with their son very early on Sunday morning to attend their church. But apparently this action is not acceptable for other units or their youth to do this time. When we were in the same unit and took a bunch of scouts overseas, they MADE all the scouts attend a Catholic service with them on Sunday. I tried to take those non-Catholic's to another church or skip it and they had a hissy fit. It is my own belief (and only mine) that they want the whole camp to know how religious they are.

It is a Catholic Service and the unit is not chartered by a Catholic church. I have forwarded to problem to the DE who told me that we were correct in what we have offered them and in what we are doing. We polled all the SMs before we finalized this decision and did not get one negative response. We made announcement at Roundtable about this and again no negative responses. The person is upset because they EXPECT a Catholic service and claim that parents are expecting it and that we have to notify all parents that we are not doing this. Now, I don't know about you but I never send my son to a scout event expecting that event to meet his religious obligations. We went with the interfaith service because... 1. Often ministers/pastors for other services are not scheduled or do not show up and the rest of the camp as to create an interfaith on the fly. 2. We thought that if each unit supplied their chaplain's aide to work with 2 adult scouters, familiar with interfaith services, it would be a great way to bring the camp together. 3. We would be showing favoritism to one religion over another. In addition, we scheduled the event to end on Sunday any with plenty of time for units to get home, unload and make their various religious services. We had several Catholics on the committee and not a one of them saw a problem with this. It has gotten so bad that after the last email - where this person started talking about taking youth - not just their own but others - off site to attend church services. I finally passed the whole mess off to my DE. This person will not accept the "interfaith" information on BSA's site. They say that is a guideline not a policy. I also told them that BSA does not have a policy requiring that I provide individual services at a district or council event. But they blew that off. They accused us of not respecting an individual scout's religious belief by having an interfaith service.