GKlose

This is bizarro, if you ask me. It's not like I have any great command of social skills, but in this kind of situation I'd most likely say something like "we can't schedule pack activities around any single family's vacation schedules, and if you are unhappy with that policy, you may be happier in Pack over at ". Popcorn money, or not, seems to be beside the issue. She's being punitive, for ridiculous reasons. guy

The first obvious question is where are the parents (Akela; Tiger Cub Partners) and the Tiger Cub Den Leader in all this? It would seem that you have your hands full as a Wolf Den Leader and as a prospective CM (you are being trained, right? Also -- it's never too late to join. If you need to recruit, then recruit. Identify prospects, talk to parents, pass out more flyers at school. However -- if your present Tiger Cub Den Leader and Partners aren't offering a solid program, then why would new recruits stick around? Guy

Sorry -- I just realized my post from a few weeks ago wasn't clear, and ElyriaLeader caught the problem. My son, at 9, in 3rd grade, finished his Bear badge this last spring. This fall, as a fourth grader, he turned 10 shortly after school started. He is in a Webelos I den. However, his age falls such that he could be 10-1/2 and finish AoL, and transition this year. Since he's been losing interest in cub scouts, he has agreed that he wants to finish AoL quickly (and he's actually fairly far along, given the last two months of work he's done). The Webelos I and Webelos II dens in this particular pack have been meeting at the same time, with different leaders, and combining on some activities. Otherwise, they have different agendas. With some focus, and some activities with both Webelos I and II dens, I think it is fairly straightforward (not necessarily easy) for a Webelos to start from Bobcat and finish AoL within 6 months. (but not if they continually miss den activities, which I've seen time and time again) Guy

I only remember my troop doing a group merit badge event twice: once, for a National jamboree merit badge midway project we were to build, my SM thought it would be a good idea if everyone in the troop first earned Photography merit badge. We did do parts of it as a group, but there was also considerable on-your-own work that had to be done in order to finish it. The other time was when our SM brought in a Red Cross trainer, to work on first aid certification (and First Aid MB) for everyone. I already had both, so I recall doing something else during those meetings. On the other hand, there were times when we probably could have done a group merit badge, but didn't. For example, there were high adventure trips to MN and ME, where considerable amounts of practice trips were done before going, but we didn't do Canoeing MB as a group. I feel I can see both sides of the issue -- to me, it's not a big deal if that's what a troop wants to do, just like it's not a big deal if troops don't want to program around group MBs. However, I would have a problem with "MB colleges" where MBs are glossed-over. That's not fair to those who earn MBs the right way.

This is an interesting thread...I earned Atomic Energy as a scout, when a friend asked me if I wanted to work on it with him. Our Scoutmaster found a counselor (a scientist at a nearby air force base) and we spent several weeks traveling to this guy's house. He spoon-fed it to us, bit by bit, teaching us the parts we didn't know. I had some interesting projects come out of that, including growing some irradiated bean seeds and building a geiger counter (with a G-M tube coming from this scientist). I also recall writing to the Atomic Energy Commission and getting a whole series of pamphlets they published, which covered all sorts of interesting topics: how reactors worked, isotopes, history, etc. The counselor didn't test us, but every meeting with him started with a verbal review quiz from him where he'd go over the things we learned the previous session. I feel like it was one merit badge we both earned the hard way, by putting in a considerable amount of time. While the material I learned didn't directly lead to my choice of profession, the material did serve me well over the years, and I'm glad I had that experience. I'm glad it wasn't just a "read this" kind of moment, the end result of me just being handed a merit badge.

I think the green tag on the shirt refers to it as a "tech pocket" too, hinting that it can house "personal electronics" and has a hole for headphones. I've tried to make it clear to my 2C son that "personal electronics" don't belong at scout events. I'll see how long that will last! The clerk at our local scout shop told me that she replaced her flag decal with an embroidered patch. I asked how she removed the old one, and she told me that she warmed it with an iron and it peeled off. She also said "you can sew over it too", but I don't think that would look so hot.

I have no idea if this is common or not, but our troop recently held an Eagle CoH and towards the end of the ceremony, when the new Eagle Scout took his oath, he was joined on stage by every other Eagle Scout present, and they took the oath together. One adult was wearing his medal with a blazer.

At first I thought maybe I was just being hyper-sensitive. I notice things like that. If I were to guess, I'd say that in the process of spec'ing new stuff to be "Made In China", someone messed up, and national didn't catch it. So now they probably have a stock of these things somewhere hoping that nobody notices. I also noticed -- on the "8" and the "2" patches, there is an embroidered border that isn't square, or the cut of the fabric rectangle isn't square. Coupled with everything else that is going on with the font, I think we're looking at really cheaply made stuff. So bad that it is visibly noticeable. My own silent protest is to not wear numerals until the new custom embroidery comes in. I've already pointed out the problem to the local scout shop, but it's not like they can do anything about it. Guy

Thanks, GMitch...I just placed the order. Custom, 2-digit in a quantity of 12, plus shipping, is a hair under $28. That is roughly $2.33/each, but buying individual unit numerals is $2.38/each. Seems like a pretty good deal. Of course, my nightmare scenario is that I get the custom numbers, and the font on the "2" is as messed up as the single-digit patch is. Also, a 4-week lead time, as you said. Thanks again... Guy

Years ago, I remember reading a note from someone that referred to the BSA as a paramilitary organization. At first, I bristled at the notion -- my own troop, when I was growing up, was most decidedly not paramilitary (although there were troops in the council that were much more so than ours). I ended up deciding that an outsider would probably think of the BSA as paramilitary, with the uniforms, and saluting, and (at times) marching in formation, and stuff like that. I also came to realize that in the 1950s and 60s, lots of troops were run by adult leaders who were WWII and Korea veterans (and later on -- such as one DE I knew -- Viet Nam era vets). In absence of proper training, and insight into the program, they probably reverted to their comfort zones, which may have been to practice formations and marching, military style "chain of command" and everything else. I'm not really bothered by it, really. It was what it was. Lots of those dads probably only knew camping related to their wartime bivouac experiences. Certainly, outdoor equipment (like the canvas pup tent halves my troop started out with) was more easily procured at local Army-Navy surplus stores, than it was from other sources. In my own experience, REI mail order was a godsend (I have a very low co-op number!). There is no question about BSA policy -- the BSA is not paramilitary. I respect the many adult leaders, veterans included, that volunteer their time to this organization, but it kind of behooves everyone to accept the program as it is, and by design (and despite it's military origins more than 105 years ago) it isn't a military or paramilitary program. That isn't meant to disrespect anyone who serves, or has served (I haven't, but two of my older brothers, also scouts, did). But, as others have said, good luck Pappy. If you'd like PT, and marching and "sir, yes sir" discipline, the BSA is obviously not for you. If I'd run into the same thing, circa 1971, I wouldn't have lasted long, and I wouldn't be here today (and I had, and still have, plenty of testicular fortitude).

I grew up in the shadows of Wright-Patterson AFB (in Xenia). I recall one council (I think, it sure seemed larger than our regular district camporees) camporee that was situated in the center of one of the inactive runway areas (although I can't recall Area A, B or C, I think it was the one adjacent to the museum). Of course, as a kid, I made multiple trips to the museum (and one about 8 months ago) and recall how the collection diminished somewhat when the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum was opened in D.C., circa '76. The AF Museum at WPAFB has been remarkably built-up since then, into the huge and fantastic museum it is today. My troop made a few stops at military bases over the years. One bus trip to Philmont and back overnighted at Fort Reilly, KS (the notable part there was that while in the mess hall, we uniformed scouts seemed to gather quite a crowd, one of whom cautioned us "boys, stay as far away from those green uniforms as you can!"). On a trip to the Maine National High Adventure Area, we overnighted at Griffiss AFB in Rome, NY in an A-frame structure that I think had been set aside for a troop on the base. About 8 years later, I spent a summer on Griffiss, working on a research project while I was in grad school. I got to know the base, and the area quite well. Only remnants of the base remain today. My troop also did an annual "indoor" event during February. For a few years in a row, we would drive from Xenia to Columbus and visit the science museum (COSI). We would overnight in the VAQ at Rickenbacker AFB. Looking back, I'm sure one of the reasons why we did those things was because of the frugal nature of the trips our troop. But it was also very generous of these various bases to allow scout visitors like they did. It's nice to see that it still happens occasionally. Side note: our troop recently attended a large scout event on Cape Cod called MassJam (roughly 7K attendees, I've heard). The location was very near to Otis AFB, and we had our share of military visitors, including recruiters, some communications people demoing equipment, and I think quite a few others staffing a field hospital and a temporary mess setup to feed staff. Guy

I just found the "centennial numerals" online -- do these look the same to you? http://www.scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/imgviewer.aspx?img=18070_is The "2" looks off to me, especially when it is matched side-by-side with another number.

Thanks for the tip, GMitch. However, please forgive my ignorance...where does one order the custom unit numerals? Through the local scout shop?

I noticed something interesting with the new numbers, at least in my local shop. I bought a new shirt (with green tabs) and unit numbers "2" and "8". When I got home, I noticed the font on them don't match. I had also bought numbers for one of my kid's shirt, an "8" and a "9" (different unit). The 8's and 9's match, but the 2 is larger, more of a "block" style. Side-by-side I imagine some people wouldn't notice, or even care, but to me it looks wrong. They are two mismatched numerals. I checked back at the store, and all their 2's were the same. I haven't been to another scout shop yet, but I'll check that next.

I have just a couple of brief stories: My family has been in three different packs...one folded, and one was just too big. Routinely 200+ people at pack events, including cubs, parents and siblings. In those events, there was little organization, and rows of chairs were set up. The problem with that is that in the front rows, there would be families seated, and fifteen rows back, there would be families with younger kids who couldn't see, or hear, anything beyond their own row. I always thought it would have been better to remove the first few rows, and seat dens on the floor up front -- now I hear that isn't such a good thing either . Another quick story -- at a recent training event, an ex-CM told me a story about running a pack meeting, where there was a parent sitting close to the front of the room, turned around talking to someone else the entire time -- the CM was so annoyed by it that she just stopped and watched, and everyone else did too. The talking continued. So, the rest of them started to discuss the situation. So they all decided that the two who were talking and oblivious should do something, like lead a song. So then the CM stopped the talkers and told them. After that, the CM said she had no problems with oblivious parents.

Our local lodge sponsors two Webelos-oriented events: Webelos Woods, a spring day at the local camp, and the Webelos Arrow of Light Weekend, a fall weekender for 2nd-year Webelos. After attending two of each, I can safely say that in general these events went over well with my two Webelos, however I've been bored out of my skull every time (so I suggest, come up with something for adults to do!). Something specific: this fall's Arrow of Light Weekend was pretty good. It was moved to the local scout camp, and exposed about 250 2nd-year Webelos in the council to the camp, including one meal in the dining hall, and a campfire that included a pretty cool A/V presentation touting the camp. At the end of the weekend, every Webelos received a very nice patch and a pretty cool certificate that told them they are "fully-qualified to attend summer camp" at the scout camp. Corny, but cute. It was a not-too-veiled attempt at exposing them to what could be their summer camp next summer.

Computers Engineering Cooking Genealogy Music Photography

I attended our council's first U. of Scouting event this last spring. The next one is scheduled for January, and I am very excited about it. My first one was great...I had been through no other training at that point, and attended sessions on annual troop planning, patrol method, youth leadership training, outdoor leadership skills (basically just an outline of what is taught in the regular weekend course; it was the weakest session I attended), and two sessions on Webelos-to-Scout transition (one from the den point of view, and one from the troop point of view). There was also a "midway" of vendors, and that was interesting too. Lots of program ideas, and I've heard this next time around that area will be greatly expanded. For $20, lunch provided, I think it was great value. Guy

I was surprised to learn the other night that one kid in our troop is officially the bugler (then again, I knew he plays trumpet, and he did play Taps to close a recent Eagle CoH). It got me to thinking. I enjoy a quiet outdoors, and wouldn't really want to hear a bugler at an event. Except for "To The Colors"...I miss that. It adds another dimension to a flag ceremony.

We've experienced three different packs (one folded; one wasn't a good fit; and the last seemed to be the best compromise) in our town, and I've heard about a few other packs in adjacent towns. While I haven't searched, I don't know of a single pack that has a February B&G (they must be out there somewhere!). All the others use the B&G as an "end of year" awards banquet, and most hold badges/ranks/etc. until then. Also, their "program year" then suspends until fall (September roundup, October first pack meeting -- so pack meetings only run October through March!). I really don't like that practice. In fact, I dislike our present pack's B&G so much (identical to last year, and the year before that) that I asked my young Webelos if he wanted to wait until April to crossover. He said no, that he wants to crossover when he hits 10-1/2 in early March. Maybe he's reading my signals, but I don't think he is enjoying Cub Scouts so much any more.

"OldGreyEagle just pawn in game of life" Mongo!

My youngest turned 10 moments after starting 4th grade (he became a Bear Cub in the spring). I think he is losing interest in Cub Scouts (his older brother just moved on to a scout troop in spring), but his age sits right that he can finish AoL by this coming spring and transition. Mom is his den leader, and all Webelos dens in this pack are lightly loaded, so they're going to do a combination of events together. But my son will be attending some Webelos I events and some Webelos II events in order to get everything done efficiently. One month after starting, he's completed a couple of activity badges, including Outdoorsman, and attended the council's "Webelos Arrow of Light Weekend" which covered a few other items (extra overnight with den, visit a scout camp, etc). The Webelos I den is concentrating on Fitness and Citizenship out of the gate, while the Webelos II den is concentrating on Readyman. It's not really all that hard to pull together -- it just takes some focus. A few weekends ago, at a training event, I talked to a mom that had run a Webelos den a few years prior. She didn't have enough for two dens, so she chose activities for both to do (for example, in the first year, they did Outdoorsman and Readyman, and then eventually moved on to Fitness and Citizenship, and then filled in from there). It just takes a little planning.

Two major drawbacks were that the event was so well attended that parking lots were overflowing and cars were parked everywhere (450+ campers, 50+ OA and council people). The camp is fairly big too, so there was lots of walking back and forth. For example, station at one end of camp, then back to the campsite for lunch, then back to the other side of camp for the next station. The cost was fairly minimal, I think. $12/per person, which included a patch, a certificate and dinner in the dining hall. I heard it said that this is the one major fundraiser the lodge has.

I didn't know if this is common or not, but...our lodge runs two Webelos-oriented events. A springtime day event called Webelos Woods, and a fall weekend event called the Arrow of Light Weekend. Although advancement isn't a focus, I think their intention is to offer the possibility of advancement (e.g., visit a Scout camp; overnight with your den, etc). So this particular event was a Friday-Sunday AM campout at the council's summer camp. The scheduled events were a Friday campfire, with songs and skits by the lodge, Saturday programming (activity stations), a Saturday campfire with songs and skits by dens/packs. Tent camping in virtually every nook and cranny of the camp, food on your own, except for the dining hall meal Saturday night. The Saturday program: divided into groups, circulate among 8 stations (about 50 minutes at each station, 10 minutes to get to the next). The stations included: craft boat building, knot tying, tent types and setup, first aid, Indian lore, Showmanship (they worked on songs or skits for the campfire), archery and BB range. At the closing on Saturday morning, the lodge presented packets with patches and certificates. When I got home, I noticed the rather elaborate certificate awarded my son the honor of being "fully qualified to attend Scout camp next summer" (he may not think much of the award, but I think it is rather clever). It was, I think, a better-planned event than last year, and was certainly a much better-attended event than before. In fact, one major drawback is that the camp has plenty of wood platforms for wall tents, but it doesn't really have good tent sites for 200+ tents. Most of the major campsites had lots of exposed rocks and tree roots. Our particular site was pretty much a "billy goat" site on a slope, but luckily our tent fit fairly well on a platform.

Just got back from a Webelos Arrow of Light Weekend, sponsored by the council's OA Lodge. I was also at the prior year's event, because my older son was a Webelos then. Does anyone else have a similar local event? What kinds of things do you do at the event? One big improvement this year is that they moved it from a camp that has traditionally been a Cub camp to the council's Scout camp. I think there is a better chance kids will be excited about coming to camp next summer. Last year, all meals were den/pack responsibility, but this year they added a meal in the dining hall (which I also thought was a smart move). Big campfire at the council ring. A/V presentation (nicely done) about the summer camp. Turnout was huge compared to last year. Over 450 Webelos and parents (mostly dads), which swamped this camp. The good part is that Webelos are supposed to operate fairly independently, so parents didn't have to participate much. But that's the bad part, too. There wasn't really anything for us parents to do. My own son doesn't like large events with large crowds, so he would detach and sit with me from time to time (he's the only one from his den that signed up for the event). He said, and I kind of have to agree with him, that some of their events "are boring". That's why I'd like to hear from some of you...what kinds of events worked well? Thanks, Guy