GKlose

I've only had one "season" of doing this, but when prospective Scouts would visit our troop, I was the adult who took parents aside to answer their questions about the troop. The question I didn't like, especially knowing the particular dad and Scout, was "how soon can my son earn Eagle?" (it's a long story, but I was getting the impression that they just wanted to "check off the box" and move on to other activities). A question I liked: "do I have to go camping with you?". My answer was a non-committal answer about how it isn't Cub Scouts any more and that it isn't a parent-child program. I also to them that some adults do choose to register as adult leaders with the troop, but nobody is expected to, and we don't push for it. I also got the sense of concern about advancement, and told them (again) that it isn't Cub Scouts, and that advancement is self-directed. I didn't get questions about particulars (and I'm glad I didn't, because our troop is far from perfect -- we're a prototypical "adult-run" program, which is another long story)...but maybe these would be good questions: Can you tell me what your Boards of Review are like? Can you tell me more about the last few Eagle projects your Eagle Scouts have done? But, I'm also a firm believer that Eagle92 is right -- it should be the Scout's impression that is important, and he's most likely not going to be really inquisitive. My own experience: when I saw a particular troop, I saw a model troop. Scout-run, and new parents were asked to "stay home for a year" so our sons could grow. Later on, I figured out this troop is a "our standards are much higher" when it comes to Eagles, and that sort of thing. My son didn't want to have anything to do with that troop, and in fact refused to visit it. He was more interested in the one troop where he knew someone already (the one we're in now). Guy

I'm a little confused (and I'm not trying to be contrary here, I'm honestly listening) -- The very first time I attended a Roman Catholic Mass, I was at a Scout camp. Same thing, for a Mormon service. Perhaps one of the most moving services I've attended was a friend's ordination as a Presbyterian minister. He was my den chief and my first patrol leader. I'm sure that every one of these services included "Let Us Pray". None of these were billed as an Interfaith Service...is that the distinction? Guy

"Brand new school last year. Nicest, biggest facility in the district." This is a digression, but similar things could be said about our town's high school. Not the biggest, but perhaps the nicest in the region. Five years old, at a total cost of about $65M. The expense is tough to swallow by old-time frugal Yankees, but it turns out it isn't a $65M bond. There was (at the time) a state school building fund that covered (as I recall) about a third of the expense. The same fund would not cover renovations at all, so the actual cost of the school to the town was cheaper than renovating the old building (and that was seen as heresy to those frugal old timers, because the prior building had been built in the mid-70s). It perturbed them even more to see FieldTurf installed (cost was less than a million) instead of sod, but turns out that the reduced maintenance cost had a positive effect on the operating budget of the school system. So all of this is a roundabout way of saying that school districts can have beautiful buildings (financed on long term bonds, as a capital expense) and still not be able to afford operating expenses such as text book renewal, curriculum updates, full staffing, professional development, athletics, fine arts, elective courses (all examples from my town). Anyway -- back to the original topic: the decline of uniforming. I first noticed it in the mid-70s. At some point, and I'm not sure the source of the information, that it was okay for us to not wear scout pants. I still wore Scout shorts, knee socks and red garter tabs, in the summer at Scout camp, but during the year I don't remember anyone wearing Scout pants. Whether that was official or not, I don't know. But fast forward to last year -- in leader position-specific training (SM/ASM), I heard a trainer address uniforming like this (an exact quote): "you have the shirt -- after that, it's up to the troop." I know that will make everyone here irate, but don't shoot the messenger! I thought it to be a ridiculous statement to make, from a council-level trainer. Guy

"GKlose, the idea of spring recruiting sure seems like a good one to me. Of course, it would only make sense for a pack running a 12-month program. ... Summer really is made for Scouting, isn't it?" Mr. Hawkins, that is exactly it. Last spring, at our district's monthly roundtable, I presented a very brief session on spring recruiting. The point I made is exactly what you brought up. It makes no sense to do spring recruiting if you have no summer program. I then segued into ideas for a summer program, and the unit and Cub awards for summer pack activities. I only had one CM come up to me after the program and tell me something like "well, you don't get it -- by summer, I'm ready for a break." I'm thinking they have other problems to solve before they tackle the issue of a summer program for the pack. Guy

"The Webelos transition is not very well managed (or understood) in many Packs." That's exactly how the DE roped me into Membership! It started with an innocent question, via email, by me: "is there a Unit Commissioner I can talk to about the troops in our town?" which was answered with a "well, we don't really have anyone in that role at the moment" (long story, but it involved the selling of a camp). Eventually, it became "maybe you could help us out on Membership -- you seem to understand the Webelos transition part". Then before I knew it, there was email being sent around naming me as the District Membership Chair. I later figured out that I was a Membership Committee of one. :-) Just this last month, I did a presentation on Webelos-to-Scout transition to our monthly Roundtable. My talks are always very short (I learned that after listening to a horrifically-long sales pitch on the council summer camp, complete with a ten-minute idiotic video that felt like it took an hour). My major point on Webelos-to-Scout transition: it is a two-way street. Not every unit has a feeder relationship, and even if there is, nobody says Webelos are bound to join a particular troop. I suggest two things: that units do multiple troop visits, because there is no one-size-fits all troop, and I suggest that troops recruit, by actively seeking out Webelos dens for visits. I know that kind of suggestion tweaks some troops -- but I've seen the other side of the same coin. I've seen troops neglect their feeder pack, perhaps taking them for granted, and the results aren't always good. One Webelos Den Leader told me "our troop doesn't even care that we exist, they just assume we'll join." Guy

I have no idea if this is a standard way of delivering the game, but our version had us separated by patrols and individual tables had "WIN", "ALL", "YOU" and "CAN" placards on them. The host would have us yell what our placards said when he pointed at the signs (just like "WHEEL" "OF" "FORTUNE", I guess). At first we were yelling, "WIN ALL YOU CAN", but then as time went by, he kept switching the order, so we were yelling "CAN YOU ALL WIN", "CAN ALL YOU WIN" and "YOU CAN ALL WIN." Then again, some people still didn't get it. Guy

I'm a district membership chair, and if there was only one thing I could change about the Cub Scout packs in our district, it would be to get them away from the idea that Cub Scouting is an academic year program (out of 14 packs in the district, I think only one has an extensive summer program). I understand why they run it that way, but I wish it would change. For one thing, I think the program works better when there is lots of outdoor activity. In the northeast, our season is short enough as it is, so I don't think it makes sense to give up on the three best months of the year. Sure we get he arguments of "but so many people are traveling in the summer", but I think that is a wash. During the school year, there are sports and other activities that come up too. There is *never* a perfect time for anything! Then there is the awkwardness of recruiting. Units drag their feet about scheduling fall roundup -- they wait until school is in session, and then try and get permission for flyer placement in schools (it is the DE and I that do that bit of admin work). The problem is that something that could be done in early August (before schools are open), takes backseat status once school starts (schools have many things to worry about the first two weeks of the school year). September is roundup month, and most of these units use their monthly pack meeting night for the roundup. So that gives us October as the first real pack meeting. Guess what, it's popcorn time! Along with all the school fundraisers, sports fundraisers, and everything else. The DE and I have been trying to encourage units to take advantage of spring recruiting, and pack summer programs, but so far there has been little interest in it. I think things would work out a whole lot better for everyone. Guy

When I was a Webelos Scout, our den leader took us to visit every troop in town (six troops at the time). As a 10-yr-old, I still found that interesting. I also knew the troop I wanted to join the moment we walked in: they were in the midst of a fun activity, and had us join right in. So when my oldest was in Webelos, I thought that was a good idea for him too. Took a little work to get contact information for all the troops in town (so, I met the DE, found out that our town really didn't have unit commissioners, and have since been roped into membership duties on the district committee). My son's den leader wasn't really interested in the process, so I set up all of the troop visits. More than half the den didn't even bother to visit more than one meeting (when requirements say "visit a troop", there was no need to visit multiples, was there?). One mom even sent email to everyone that said, "why are we visiting so many troops, I thought we're supposed to join Troop 123?" Years later, I learned some things that I didn't pick up when I was in Webelos. Every troop is different. Every group of leaders, youth and adult, is different. In four visits, I saw Webelos III, hanging on by a thread, loose and not very active, and adult-run. I visited a fifth one, in another town, all by myself (even my own son didn't want to go), and found what I thought is a model troop (I've since learned that it is also the kind of troop that tries to slow down fast-advancing young Scouts, and puts Life Scouts through the wringer on Eagle projects because "our standards are much higher"). I think it pays to shop around, and ask questions.

It's not only on the CD mentioned, but it is also here, directly on the BSA website: http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34118.pdf You can find it and many other documents on the "Forms" page: http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Media/forms.aspx Guy

A young man had earned Eagle in our troop, long before I arrived on the scene. I'd never met him until his younger brother's Court of Honor. When the older brother showed up, he was surrounded by many younger scouts from the troop. It was pretty obvious that he was a beloved member of the troop at one time. He's a college student now, and it was nice to see him back for his brother's Court. This older brother was wearing his uniform, even though he's not a registered Scouter, and had aged out long ago. He was also wearing his Eagle Scout patch on his uniform. Of course, he didn't know or perhaps didn't care about it, but it seems like it would have been just as wrong for the uniform police to suggest to him that it wasn't appropriate. In fact, the way I see it, that may have been the last time that he wears the uniform (and the patch) forever. Guy

Wait a minute -- if Webelos 2 doesn't exist, then how can there be troops that operate as Webelos 3 dens (adult-led)? :-) Guy

Seven Cub Scout retention tips: http://kismif.org/cub-scout-retention-tips/

Ooof! We just "graduated" out of a pack that pretty much almost died over the summer. The CM/CC (what I call a "one-man show") was to the point of putting the bare minimum of effort into the job. My wife stepped up as the assistant CM to run pack meetings. That just meant the CM/CC did even less. BTW, I know that one can't register as both CM and CC, but in this case, the registered CC was actually his wife, but she didn't function in that capacity because she spent her effort on running a Webelos Den. On the KISMIF blog page, I saw a list of something like "7 key retention tips" for a Cub Scout pack. This particular pack was failing on 7 out of 7 items in that list. For a talk at a roundtable, I offered this summary: How to Kill A Pack: 1. Don't do anything to recruit new Cubs. 2. Offer a lousy program. 3. Don't do anything at all to retain who you already have. So the one-man show probably did put in reasonable effort one year. He based the program exactly on what the previous CM did. The next year, same story. Except that when notice of an event would come in from the district or the council, he would just forward it out to the entire pack: "anybody who wants to go to [this event] can just sign up for it on their own." By that time, a pack of 70 Cubs dropped down to about 55. The next year, same program, same story, it had dropped to about 35 Cubs. An entire Webelos I Den left Cub Scouting. Nobody is sure why, but my guess is that nobody could get excited about the exact same minimal program. At this point, my wife stepped in to at least run pack meetings. But the "themes" were the same as all prior years: cake decorating, Cub Scout Olympics, etc. So the CM/CC finally had enough. He told everyone in an email that he was stepping down and someone else would have to take over. We had moved on to a Boy Scout troop, so my wife wasn't interested in continuing. In fact, she pretty much hates the Scouting program because she's never really seen it done the right way. Going into this fall, one Den Leader from that pack (who refused to take on "Pack leadership" duties) threatens to take his entire den to another pack. Nobody else would even answer email. Pack was really on life support at this point, with the plug just about ready to be pulled, when the D.E. found a recently-retired CM to step in and get the pack going again. His motive is to train those parents left in how to build a vibrant pack. Things are looking up all of a sudden, and the Den Leader who was threatening to leave is staying. I've seen another pack fail (it was a small pack, with about 12 Cubs, and in that case when the CM had enough, he took his kid to another pack, and the kid's friends went with them -- the entire pack was left to about 3 parents) and it wasn't pretty. My recommendation is always the same in these circumstances. Concentrate on building a strong committee, one that is committed to offering the program the right way, and then build a strong program. It isn't easy, but it's the best way to run a pack. Guy

I don't think I still have my handbook, from when I joined in '71 (just before the Great Rewriting of Everything of 1972, along with adding Red Berets), but I recall things had changed by then ('71). I joined in May and earned Tenderfoot as fast as I could (it was primarily joining requirements, much like the Scout badge is now). That summer I worked on Reading Merit Badge (my mom was a librarian, but I recall that one of the other librarians was my counselor). By summer camp in July, I was finishing Second Class, and by October I was working on First Class. I don't think I finished First Class until the following spring ('72), and I'm certain I was working on Star under the new requirements of '72, which would have been summer of '72. So, I'm guessing that in the summer of '71, there was no restriction about me working on Reading merit badge. My next merit badges would have been earned at summer camp in '72, and the only one I recall that I earned was First Aid. Guy

Sounds like a perfect question for the District Advancement person (I'd guess that answers to this question vary widely from person to person). But also consider that the supplies already gathered may not be 100% of what is needed. An enterprising young Life scout may want to inventory what has already been gathered, and then think of what else might be needed, including tools. Something similar is going on in our troop right now. One recent Eagle Scout built a trail (actually uncovered a relatively unused trail that already existed), along with installing a picnic area, and (I think) a small bridge. A kiosk was to be supplied by the local conservation commission, but it wasn't delivered in time. The head of the conservation commission called me a few months ago, and told me that now had several new kiosks (for several trails in town), and was looking for a Scout searching for a project, to install them. I passed it along to our committee chair, who passed it to the next Life Scout in line for a project. I've stayed away, but as far as I know he is following up on that request. Guy

I just realized something funny -- our Scribe also had some kind of connection to AZ, so you've caught me there for a minute. Could it be the same Scribe? But then I realized that our Scribe was wearing a fox tail on his hat, so I don't think he was an Owl.

Just got back from weekend 2, and one thing that stood out to me is that if I am ever selected to be on a WB course staff, being a scribe is one of the busiest positions. My hat is off to the Scribe, and his assistant (who spent a lot of time taking pictures). The Scribe had help -- I heard that the SM jumped in and helped add articles to the Gazette, most of them submissions from patrol scribes. We also had one troop guide that was the course A/V expert. He did lots of the electronic stuff, during presentations, that you talk about. Guy

Not long ago, I heard a "we like to see about 100 hours on this line" from a district advancement guy talking about an Eagle application. I even checked with an old-timer that's also been on the district committee for awhile, and the first thing he said is "some people just never get it -- there's NO minimum requirement." Heard yesterday that the district advancement committee now has a few new members and they're instituting a new streamlined process so project workbooks will be approved within a week. I don't know if they've convinced the one guy that there is no 100 hour minimum, or if they've gone the other direction. Guy

It was a very long time ago, but I recall that our entire troop was impressed with our Scoutmaster's "poncho". I don't recall him ever wearing it, but every couple of years he would drape it over an easel, at a Court of Honor. It was red wool, and it was his virtual "patch blanket". I don't recall it having his rank badges, or merit badges, but it had all of the patches for events he'd attended going all the way back to his earliest years in Scouting. Guy

I've seen way too many cases of what I call a "one-man show" (or, one-person). That's the combined CM/CC who probably also covers a den as well. The worst case of this, a pack we belonged to up until this last year, was a CM that wasn't putting much into the pack, their spouse who was registered as a CC and WDL; another den leader (my wife, actually) planned, organized and ran pack meetings. Our youngest son, however, was finishing up AoL, so it was known that she was moving on too (I'd already moved up to a troop). The CM finally abdicated, and the pack was a hair away from folding. My recommendation: don't ever rely on one person to be in charge. Concentrate on building a strong committee with shared responsibility. Identify early when parents will be moving on with their sons and plan for the succession. It really doesn't take all that much time to do bare essentials training, using the online training site, so encourage that. The "hair away from folding" part just played out this last week. Nobody in the pack seemed willing to step up and replace the CM/CC. One DL (who was unwilling to step up himself) was pretty much set on moving his entire den to another pack. He placed the fault squarely on "the council" (meaning the D.E. -- I know, I saw the email). He was completely ignoring the fact that several people started well over a year ago at trying to deal with the situation, and nobody from within the pack was willing to step up. This last week, the D.E. found a "recently retired" Cubmaster from another town who was willing to act as an interim CM while everything was pulled back together in this pack. I saw the wrap-up email from that meeting as well -- lots of parents were willing to volunteer for individual tasks, even Den leadership, but there is only one guy who offered to become "CM-in-training", and there were no candidates for CC. By the way -- the CO is a paper entity only, even though the pack has been around a long time. The CO is officially a PTO, and there really isn't a COR other than one mom that acts as a liaison. Build a strong committee -- that's the lesson. Guy

Brent, I think 16 to 18 months isn't an unreasonable goal. After all, if a Scout joins in spring, and stays reasonably active, summer camp the first summer through summer camp in the second summer, that covers about 16 to 18 months. By that time, they'll probably have a few camp merit badges too (handicrafts, maybe Swimming, First Aid -- that kind of thing). I had a similar experience to your "wealthy family" example -- on a Webelos Den visit to our troop meeting, I pulled parents aside while Webelos were being entertained. One of the points I stressed is that while Cubs are a parent-child program, Boy Scouting isn't -- it's all based on personal initiative. One dad, who my wife knows very well, and I know through Cub Scouts, is that sort of wealthy family type. I don't know the extent of his son's "issues", but I do know he has trouble focusing, and with causing disruptions, and his parents are usually very close by. Dad was very concerned: "how soon can [he] earn Eagle?" I repeated the mantra that it is based on personal initiative, and it would be up to his son. The question was repeated, "but how quickly?" I said that there are reports of 13-year-old Eagle Scouts, but they are highly focused, highly driven individuals. I think Dad was of the advancement mind of earning Eagle and then moving on to some other activity. Ultimately, they chose a different troop along with his buddy, but before summer was out Dad was transferred to another state. It would have been interesting to watch his son's progress.

I've seen the other end of the spectrum, and it isn't so pretty. A Webelos den that was pretty tight moved into a scout troop in June. They didn't like how things were going, so by November they were splitting off and forming their own troop. One "patrol", but it's really Webelos III style with perpetual father-son camping. Their advancement goal was not unlike Cub Scouts: one rank a year. They're now in their 3rd year of existence, and they're finally getting around to working on First Class.

I've got other seemingly unrelated questions, but: How's sleeping at home, when things are normally warm? Do you sleep soundly? Snoring? Acid reflux while sleeping? Problems with nighttime urination (nocturia)? Daytime drowsiness? Hypertension? Other cardiac problems (such as elevated CRP)? I don't want to be an alarmist, but those are all classic symptoms of sleep apnea. I would hesitate to bring it up, but sleep apnea kills too. By all means it is worth talking to a sleep specialist about. Guy

A long time ago, I saw a set of annotations for the script of 1776 that pointed out while it is billed as a musical comedy, it is fairly historically accurate. Like most movies based on something else, there are times when characters are combined, and events simplified. It's one of my favorite movies, although I would agree it's not for everyone. It has a very long running time (the stage show runs at 3 hours+). I watched it yet again, this last July,this time with my sons. We stopped the recording and had a lengthy discussion about "Molasses to Rum to Slaves", and how the colonial economy wasn't just based on Southern plantation owners buying slaves. "Whom Stinketh The Most?". Guy

B-Dweller, my son (now first year in a Scout troop) did something very similar. In his case, he turned 10 even before his 4th grade year started (early September birthday, school starts the Tuesday after Labor Day). But in his case he was done with Cub Scouts. It was a poorly-run pack and he was tired of all the same old stuff. He felt most pack meetings were for little kids, not kids like him. So, he wanted out of Cub Scouts. I asked him if he would earn Arrow of Light, and pointed out that it would be hard work to do it all in six months, but that he could do it. And he did. The pack Blue and Gold Banquet was this last March, and he'd finished everything and was ready to cross over with the older, 5th grade Webelos. I've told a few people who were curious about this, but I pointed out the lead really came from my son -- he was ready to be done with Cub Scouts. Guy