GKlose

My district has been trying something new this year: a merit badge day. One or two merit badges offered to the first few (20 or so) scouts that sign up (with multiple instructors). The first time it was offered, it was auto mechanics and traffic safety. The second time, it was metalwork, I believe. Plans are to hold it again, this coming spring, but I'm not sure which MBs would be offered. Another district in our council has been doing an annual science/technology merit badge fair. Bunches of MBs offered, with a 2-day commitment required (one day, for "classes" and the second day, a month later, for "field trips"). Although I have not witnessed either event, I believe one "standard" is that these aren't "win all you can" events :-), but rather a Scout is able to work on a single MB. Guy

Yes, Oak, I pretty much was speaking rhetorically, but since you bring it up: I feel that if the BSA had intended memorization, they probably would have written the requirement to specifically say what they intended ("learn and say" versus maybe "memorize and recite"). But I think it odd that now that you've looked up the definition, you can only see one way of interpreting the definition ("The only one of these definitions that appears applicable is number 3"), when in fact all 4 could apply in one way or another. I have to add an aside here, that one of my avocations is that of a musician, and in other forums, I've commented frequently about the topic of memorization. In those circles, it is a commonly misunderstood *skill* (a skill that warrants special practice). I've seen lots of comments ranging from "memorization is extremely important" (in a musical sense, I'm talking about) to "I can never memorize anything". In this same musical sense, it turns out that it is "internalization" that is the important step. If a musical concept is internalized, then memorization naturally follows as part of the process (*if* memorization is addressed specifically). Then it gets messy because there are different kinds of memorization (muscle memory, for example). But music teachers are all over the map on this. Internalization is always vital, while some teachers think memorization is important, others think that sight-reading (the specific skill of reading sheet music) is important, and some followers of either camp feel that the two are mutually-exclusive (and they are not -- they are specific skills that need to be learned and practiced). A personal pet peeve of mine is the young musician that can't play a note unless there is a piece of sheet music sitting on a music stand for them to stare at. So getting back to Cubs -- do I think learn = memorize? No -- I'd rather have a Cub know what the Oath means, inside and out, and if they happen to memorize it along the way, then that is a happy byproduct. An active Cub is going to have tons of opportunities to recite the Oath and Law of the Pack with others, so memorization is bound to happen. But would I put a Cub, especially a first grade Tiger Cub, into a position where they would have to recite the Oath, and if they stumbled, I'd say "I think you should work some more on that" and withhold a Bobcat Badge from them until they could "pass the standard"? Never.

For those of us not familiar with this product, would someone please post a link (if available)? Thanks, Guy

I don't think I said I feel it is modifying or adding to the requirements. But by the same token, where does it say that learn = memorize? I'll also have to admit to my personal bias here -- although neither of my Cubs went through this (in the three packs they were part of), I've heard stories of not only required memorization, but testing, and recitation (by themselves) in front of an entire pack. It happens, and my opinion is that is completely contrary to the intention of the Cub program. Guy

I've seen a number of local packs (my kids cycled through 3 of them before we found a "best fit") and I think a disservice is done when it becomes all about marching Cubs around from activity to activity and then hand them their badges. At the same time, I've seen a number of burnt out Cub Scouts leave the program prior to finishing Arrow of Light (because of a variety of excuses: "it's just not his thing", or "we have too many other activities", or "he wants to do just sports", and things like that). It occurred to me this morning that the standard should be FUN. There should be a number of fun and interesting activities, and the end result of that should be advancement, right? Memorization can be fun too, but only if it is presented in the right way. The Pledge of Allegiance is an interesting point: as far as I know, virtually every kid memorizes it. But I've never heard stories of them being required to, disciplined at school for not having memorized it, having to sit down and practice it with parents, or not advancing in school for not memorizing it, or even being graded on it. It probably isn't considered anything like fun. Maybe in later grades they might learn the history of it, or maybe talk about what it means. But still, memorization happens. And yet, Cub Scouts isn't supposed to be like that. Yes, there are elements of character, citizenship and personal fitness, but the overall standard is supposed to be fun. Guy

I'm in a MA council (Yankee Clipper), but our camp in actually in New Hampshire, as is one of the Boston Minuteman Council camps. We have gone to the YCC camp called Wah-tut-ca, and it is fine, but I have no real basis of comparison (other than spending a couple of weeks at a camp in Rhode Island called Yawgoog -- which is itself a fine camp). Some other local troops go to the BMC camp called T. L. Storer, which is not far from Wah-tut-ca in New Hampshire. Boston Minuteman has another camp, I think, at the Blue Hills Reservation in Milton. Camp Sayre, I think. And then one council, I'm not sure which one, has a camp called Squanto, which is near Plymouth. There are a few others around, but other than Wah-tut-ca in NH, I can't really comment. Our troop is considering a Daniel Webster Council patrol-oriented camp, in New Hampshire, called Camp Bell (part of the Griswold Scout Reservation), for this year. There are tons of options. Guy

I'm not sure if I didn't express myself well, or you are twisting my point -- The issue is not the relative difficult of memorization, because I think we'd all agree that barring any learning disability problems, it probably isn't unreasonable for a Cub to memorize something. The issue is also not the standards to which we hold Scouts in general, because in general the standards are coded into the program (requirements, for example). No matter how it is spun, you probably aren't going to be able to convince me that setting a STANDARD where Cubs are REQUIRED to MEMORIZE anything or else they FAIL is a good idea, when this is completely contrary to the intention of the program (unless, of course, the Tiger Cub handbook has changed in the last 7 years or so). I believe they are termed achievements, not requirements (and that language was specifically chosen for a reason), and the standard is universal: Do Your Best, and the Tiger Cub Handbook is pretty specific about our responsibility as Akela, which is to put our Cubs into a position to succeed. There is absolutely no mention in the handbook about setting a unit-imposed standard on anything. I'm not an unreasonable person, and I'm not looking to hand out awards for nothing. In fact, an old friend of mine gave me a lesson on self-esteem: she said "nobody ever gains self-esteem by being handed anything, they get it by accomplishing something." I'm just saying it can be done fully within the program intentions, without a unit-imposed standard, required performance levels and a pass/fail mentality. Guy

When I came back into the program when my oldest son became a Tiger Cub, there is a lesson that stuck with me from reading his Tiger Cub handbook: they aren't called requirements, they are called achievements, they are not pass/fail, and it is our responsibility to put our Cubs into a position to succeed. I don't think it can get much simpler. Active Cub Scouts will have plenty of opportunities to repeat the promise and the law of the Pack, etc. If they struggle, is there any harm in repeating it with them? Isn't the real value in teaching them not to memorize a bunch of words (like the Pledge of Allegiance) but rather to teach them what it really means and why we recite them so often? Guy

Scoutldr has a good point. The BSA recommends a 12-step process to start new units, which is shown at this link: http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Media/Relationships/TheNew-UnitProcess.aspx As a member of the district committee, I've seen a number of new units started. Without the proper support, many units are destined to fail, and I'm left wondering why go to the trouble of starting up a unit if it will only have a year or two lifespan? No matter who is asking you to start a unit (DE, CO, or otherwise), it would make sense to see how they have accounted for these 12 steps. An example: in our district, we have a volunteer formerly affiliated with a troop that wants to start a Venturing crew. He would mostly likely be the COR and the CC for the crew, and he has a volunteer who will most likely be the crew adviser. At this point, the DE is pressuring them to have a recruiting event (which is scheduled for this coming Saturday) so that they can get applications and checks before the end of the year. This new CC/COR is convinced that he just has to make a sales pitch at local troop meetings and that he'll get a whole bunch of older scouts ready to sign up. Other than having been through recent Venturing training, I'm not sure how much more of the process they've actually been through. Guy

Just a data point -- our local YMCA has four locker rooms total: women, girls, men and boys. Youth are not allowed in the adult locker rooms but adults are allowed in the youth locker rooms, with their children. I've only visited the mens' and boys' locker rooms, but while the adult locker room is wide open, the youth locker room has rows of lockers and a few "privacy screens". Not long ago, I saw a young dad carrying a toddler, talking to one of the Y people. I think they were on a tour. The dad was asking the Y guy why kids were not allowed in the adult locker room, and the Y guy thought for a moment and said "it is a youth protection issue" and left it at that. I'm not so sure that the dad understood that the men's locker room is a wide open room, with lockers on the perimeter and a few chairs around.

Thanks for the replies so far -- I'm with all of you on the Scout and dad tenting issue. I was just trying to portray an accurate picture. Perhaps I added a bit too much detail. :-) Moving a troop from completely adult-led method to boy-led patrol method can be difficult right? There are several problems to solve, obviously, and subtle suggestions to change the status quo are being handled as delicately as I can. Guy

The idea is that the troop subsidizes the tent but the scout retains ownership. If they leave, then they still have the tent. Doesn't show up? Same story. Although I'm not really trying to steer the discussion towards my troop in particular (other than not taking care of ratty old tents is obviously a strategy that's not working out for us!), we already subsidize newbies a little anyway, like many troops do. When newbies join we give them handbooks, neckerchiefs and slides, and a couple of troop t-shirts. While the rest of the troop pays dues for annual renewal, we typically don't charge that to newbies. We save that for their first full year (and we subsidize a couple of single-parent families). We have a couple of modest fundraisers each year, but all in all, we typically don't spend as much as we take in, and we're sitting on a fairly nice treasury.

Since I've been with our troop, I haven't even seen the old pile of troop tents we own. One ASM tells me they are in rough shape and should probably be thrown out. A prior SM allegedly spent a lot of money on some tents by going directly to the Eureka plant and making a case for a scout discount. The tents were probably not stored properly (right now, they are sitting in a musty basement of a church outbuilding. There are probably damaged and missing parts and they probably have been put away wet from time to time. One troop decision this last year was to purchase 3 new 3-man tents. Inexpensive Eureka tetragons from Sportsmansguide.com. I think the underlying problem of not taking care of equipment probably hasn't been solved, so these might last a little while, but I doubt we'll get several years of service. We've lapsed into a situation where lots of scouts just use their own tents. Sometimes, on outings, that is a tent shared with dad (because it is a 4-man "family" tent, and dad doesn't want to put it up just for himself), but occasionally we have a couple of scouts sharing one of the scout's own tents. The SM wanted to buy some lightweight nylon tarps (for patrols that don't really exist, but that's another story) but the committee argued against it, saying that inexpensive poly tarps, at a fraction of the price, are probably the better financial decision. So last night, at a district committee meeting, I was talking to another guy who said that his troop is considering a new idea (new for them, I think). They are thinking of subsidizing the purchase of certain tents, which then becomes the scout's own property. Allegedly, the tent is kept in much better condition that way. Coupled with a favorable scout discount program, like Alps Mountaineering's, you could have a fairly good selection of tents from fairly cheap (under $50) to more expensive and lighter weight. Has anyone else tried this sort of thing? I like the idea better than what we're doing now (a mishmash of troop and personal tents, with the idea that all of our newbies are kind of left on their own to decide). Thanks, Guy

Hey JerseyScout -- I'll second the competition idea -- I came into a troop that is pretty much adult led. For weekend outings, one of the adults has done all shopping and cooking for the small handful of scouts that would show up (they weren't newbie scouts, either). The SM started off with an event on one outing. He told the "patrols" (which on this particular outing was actually small 3 or 4 scout "cooking groups") that they were going to get two chickens to prepare any way they liked. They took care of bringing everything else they needed. I figured the SM would like a new idea, so for another outing I suggested that he give every patrol/"cooking group" a "mystery box" and then also give them some sort of mystery protein. I think the protein might have been chicken again, because I know one patrol did fried chicken in a dutch oven (I wasn't on the outing). The leftover mystery box items have become a small stash of non-perishables in the troop trailer. A couple of scouts specifically mentioned they loved the mystery box idea and want to do it on every outing now. Someone else here on this forum talked about a "Cast Iron Chef" competition (dutch ovens, for example, to prepare everything). Someone else suggested a mystery box item of Spam, which is think is a wonderfully wicked (as they say up here in the northeast) idea that I'm going to borrow. :-) My master plan is that I'm going to push (the other adults) for the mystery box to become a mystery envelope (of a set amount of cash) and then a trip to a nearby market. At that point, there is virtually no difference between what we are doing and what they are supposed to be doing, which is planning their own menu. Guy

Didn't Colin Fletcher, in The Complete Walker, opine on the virtues of hiking nude? :-)

I keep bumping into a scouter at council events, most recently on staff at WB. He's kind of a like a "go to" guy for the council and always shows up -- I think he's officially a council commissioner at the moment. He had lunch with my patrol on the next to last day of WB, and he told us stories about collecting metal and grease as a Scout during WWII. I asked, and he said that he's been in the program for "only about 40 years", but that's because he was away for a time after his son had aged out. I put his age at 75, minimum, but he looks like maybe 65 or so.

I'm not sure if this data point means much of anything, but I've recently had the experience of sitting through the new "This Is Scouting" videos about 5 times (district-level training). One thing that struck me is how "posed" the videos are. Such as Cub Scout sitting down quickly and quietly when their den leader assembles them :-). One such scene is the scene which describes troop leadership (SM, SPL, etc). It shows a troop on a campout, where they are all wearing tan-colored polo shirts (with FDL), and scout pants. Another scene shows a group of scouts hiking somewhere in the backcountry (no backpacks or day packs shown), and they are all wearing the red wool jac-shirts, and scout pants. In general, it seems to me many troops do have some kind of activity uniform (a t-shirt at the very least) and national has certainly tried to sell us on activity uniforms. I think that's great, but they always seem to miss the mark by at least a little bit. Guy

A SPAM Mystery Challenge! I love it!

We've done similar things in our troop, and at camporees. Our scouts loved a camporee's Iron Chef competition, and the next year I ran a competition that had a backpacking theme (entries were judged on all sorts of levels: easy prep and cleanup, Leave No Trace, weight, nutritional balance, etc). At the troop level, I suggested a "mystery box" (like what you've suggested) where each patrol was offered a box of random ingredients, and that went over really well. Another time, each patrol was told up front they would get two whole chickens and they planned accordingly. Got the idea from this forum to do a "Cast Iron Chef" competition on a future outing, where all entries have to be done in dutch ovens (we don't cast iron skillets, but that would be cool if we did). And because our patrols aren't in the habit of doing their own planning and shopping on a regular basis (our troop is adult-led -- but I do want to start the ball rolling in the other direction), I want to try a "mystery box" which will actually be a "mystery envelope" (with a set amount of cash for a set number of meals). This would be good for an outing that is relatively close to a supermarket. Our mystery box had all sorts of things in it. Cans of vegetables, kidney beans, tomatoes. Boxes of rice and pasta. Fresh ingredients. Leftover staples went into a box in the troop trailer, where they can be used on future outings. Guy

Same experience as HobcawChaos, this last summer (except we didn't go to the White House). By the way, I highly recommend contacting your rep's office -- we did that, and it was such a pleasure to bypass so many lines on our way into the Capitol. Our tour guide, a summer intern, was fantastic during the tour. Bags were left at the rep's office, and they gave us plenty of warning beforehand that would be the case. Another point of information -- I liked the Bureau of Engraving and printing tour, but their website and our rep's website were both wrong! The rep's office does not arrange tours -- one had to get to a kiosk on one side of the B.E.P. early in the morning to get a timed ticket for later entry. Entrance was on the opposite side of the building. The first morning, we got their too late to get a ticket for that day (I believe we arrived about 10:30am). The second day, we arrived earlier (maybe 9am) and got a timed ticket for around 5pm. One nice note -- it was a very hot late June day, and we arrived back at the tour entrance about 4:30pm. The attendant let us into the alcove earlier than normal due to no-shows. He didn't have to, but I think he recognized that we would enjoy have a bench to sit on inside. After visiting both sides of the B.E.P. building multiple times, it was pretty clear that the Holocaust Museum, on the same block, gets lots of traffic too. Plan on waiting in a line there for awhile. I've been to D.C. many times since I was a young kid. I can vouch for other recommendations of the Smithsonian, the Air and Space Museum, including the Udvar-Hazy Center, and everything else. I love the National Archives, but it can be a very long wait to get a very crowded view of "the documents." This last trip, rather than spend big chunks of a day in one place, we did a lot of "hit and run" visiting. Dropped into several museums just for an hour or two, then moved on. Had no issues with "I'm bored, when can we go home?". Guy

Thanks, B-Skip -- I didn't know that. I thought the Massachusetts was huge, so I can't imagine the scale if that one is considered a small battleship. I suppose the only disappointing part, if you want to call it that, is that you can only climb so high on the Massachusetts. You can't get all the way up to the bridge. I think that would have been interesting. Guy

Think of the possibilities! Lem has to deal with youth protection, the Guide to Safe Scouting (laser tag!), helicopter parents and a new Committee Chair comes aboard and tries to turn it into an adult-led troop. Council employee absconds with funds (read about a Mohegan Council employee this morning in the paper, accused of stealing $225k). Could be an interesting movie. Guy

I did an overnight on the Battleship Massachusetts (in Fall River, MA) several years ago (my 1C son was just a Wolf cub back then), but the battleship had a program. They had someone specifically talk about wartime armaments, and there was also a movie that talked about the role of the ship in the war. Afterwards, a guy (a vet from the ship, who was interviewed in the movie) was there to answer questions. That part was really cool. Later that night, in one of the rooms, they showed a WWII-era film, suitable for a young audience. I can't recall what the movie was, because I nodded off during it. Not everyone on the ship watched it, nor could they have all fit in the room anyway. About the rest -- I didn't really enjoy the overnight aspect. Below decks, it is hot, cramped and not very well-ventilated (and yes, I have a new appreciation for those that served on the ship, because I can envision what it must have been like with full-sized men everywhere, smoking and man-stink everywhere. It took a long while for Cubs to quiet down at night. There wasn't a whole lot of sleeping. Guy

To my knowledge (and from a district committee meeting two nights ago), mandatory training is being piloted in some 20 councils around the country right now, including in the council to our immediate south, Boston Minuteman. Our training chair, I think, said that it would be rolled out to the entire country by 2011 for unit leaders, and to all direct contact leaders the year after that. I didn't really pay much attention to the details because in our unit we already have all direct-contact leaders fully-trained. I couldn't really answer what a training culture is, but I can answer what it isn't...after I first registered as an adult, I thought it would make sense to get training. About that same time, new online courses were rolling out, so I did most of those within a month (sitting at my desk, on my lunch hour). The next step, of course, was leader position-specific training, and I went looking on the council website. Nothing! I asked around, and I found that another district was doing something they called the "training triad" (New Leader Essentials, LPST and OLS) all in one weekend. So I signed up for it. About a week before it was to start, my first spring, I sent email to the organizer because I hadn't heard anything. "Oh, we had to cancel that...not enough people signed up." So I had to wait for fall, for the same "training triad" weekend. Nothing else was scheduled before then. I had wanted to get training while I had momentum. But I had to cool my jets. I don't know whether that was good or bad, but it certainly felt deflating. I've since learned to check the neighboring councils -- but I didn't know that back then. Guy

My kids cycled through 3 packs in 6 years, and the bottom line is that I don't think any pack is perfect. Some may come close, but even then, it can deteriorate over a couple of years. Our first pack folded. Knowing what I know now, I should have personally committed to saving it. Had I done that, then maybe a couple of other adults would have stepped forward too. In my defense, however, the CM who ran it gave almost no warning. He said "I'm not interested in running this any more" and less than two weeks later, he joined another pack and about half the pack went with him. That's a great way to kill a pack (moving a den to another pack). So we eventually moved to the other pack too. The second pack wasn't fully prepared for the sudden growth. Events were out of control, there were so many kids running around. I personally decided that it wasn't going to work for us, when at a PWD in a school gym, I saw two kids going into a restroom together and going into the same stall. Parents were oblivious to what their kids were doing. There was virtually no adult supervision. So we moved on after a year. There were two other packs in town, and my wife preferred one over the other, because she knew some families in that pack. But what we didn't know was that the "one-man show" CM/CC was in the beginning stages of burnout. He did very little to either hand the pack off to someone else, or run it properly. My youngest finished AoL this last spring. That last pack was almost in the folding stage this last fall. The CM/CC said "I don't want to do this any more" and one of the den leaders was about ready to take his entire den to another pack, before someone from outside the pack stepped forward to take over. My bottom line: every pack is different. Some are great, some are in the death throes; most seem in-between. Guy