GKlose

Well, as far as sports uniforming goes -- I stress with my sons that "protection" is as much part of their uniform, although they dislike it. That is, until they saw a 17-something yr-old umpire last year jump up and take an errant pitch full on in the "package", but he was unprotected. As he lay on the ground "recomposing" himself for several minutes, I'll bet he was giving a lot of thought to the idea of full uniforming for his role. Tough lesson to learn the hard way. As far as scout uniforming goes, I'm disappointed in the mixed message that our scouts get. I even heard a council trainer say, at New Leader Essentials, about The Uniform method: "well, you have the shirt -- from there, it is a troop choice." In our own troop, the adult leaders aren't fully uniformed (except for me). Since they aren't, neither are Scouts. My own sons, who have full uniforms, resist because none of the other Scouts in the troop wear a full uniform. Now as far as a Scouter handing out Klondike nuggets for uniforming -- for me, I think it depends on how it is handled. If it is strictly for Scout Spirit, but then Scout Spirit is equated only to full uniform (in our neck of the woods, that would be another mixed message: they are told to come to the Klondike without cotton, because "cotton kills" -- and while there is a non-cotton choice now, I see very few Scouts that have moved out of the uniform shirt they purchased after transitioning from Cub Scouts a few years back -- in fact, one Scout grew so big so fast that he was almost popping buttons, but then he came back after a summer hiatus, and he slimmed down considerably -- so his 5-yr-old shirt fits better than ever) that seems like a problem to me. I would equate this to one class I had in college, a programming class. The TA grading our assignments would award specific points for specific things, but he wouldn't tell us what those were ahead of time. It was a guessing game. I asked him about it, and he said "you know, extra stuff." What kind of extra stuff will you be looking for on this next assignment? "You know, extra stuff." But if you didn't have specifically what he was looking for, you didn't get the points. On the other hand, I think no matter what you do, there are always going to be Scouters that go ballistic. Guy

Wow, this is so sad -- As evmori said, any merit badge at any time. Of course, if a young Scout isn't mature enough to handle, say Environmental Science, that will be pretty obvious to the merit badge counselor and it will take extra time. My own son, who I don't think has moved very fast at all, recently completed his Star Board of Review, and he only has 3 more Eagle-required merit badges for Life to go (he's started one of them, and has appointments for two others, and has implicitly started Camping merit badge with his SM, a registered counselor). If he chooses, he can have his Life BoR by September. He will have only been in the troop about 2-1/2 years at that point. Another data point: our troop has one young scout who is a self-directed "merit badge mill", so to speak. He has been cranking through merit badges as fast as he can make appointments with merit badge counselors, and he has devoted two evenings a week specifically to working on merit badges. A neighbor/buddy has been working with him, although he is an older scout. The young one joined the troop last June. He hasn't progressed past Second Class yet, but I would guess that he has more than 30 merit badges already (I'm unsure of his actual total). Guy

There are all sorts of answers to this question -- but with two sons who have recently gone through this same thing, I can add our experiences. Both sons had different experiences, and both by choice. There is a specific design behind the Webelos program -- that is, to transition the boys into the Boy Scout program. Webelos dens are operated less as Cub Scout-style parent-child programs, and more patrol-like. Activities are centered around something more Boy Scout-like, such as earning activity badges (not unlike Boy Scout merit badges) in subject areas that are slightly more mature than the Cub Scout program: Citizen, Fitness, Outdoorsman and Readyman (there is a specific design behind these being the required activity badges for the Webelos badge and the Arrow of Light). Also -- the Arrow of Light contains specific requirements mean to directly reflect the "joining requirements" of Boy Scouts: visit a troop meeting, go to a Boy Scout-oriented outdoor activity, tie a square knot, recognize the difference in the Boy Scout uniform, the Scout Oath and Law, etc.). In my sons' cases, one was fine with whatever the den did. The other couldn't get out of Cub Scouts fast enough. Although he was a first-year Webelos, his age is such that he could transition earlier than the end of 5th grade (he turned 11 just after 5th grade started), so he did activities with both a first-year and a second-year Webelos Den. I've seen, however, other dens in operation, including one entire den of 10 Webelos drop after their first year. I'm convinced that the more the Webelos program is run as "Cub Scouting" the more boring it will be, and who wants boring? The Webelos program is meant to be run as a transition to Boy Scouting, to bridge them, to keep them in the program. Try a google search on "Webelos to Scout transition" and you'll probably find hundreds of web pages devoted to the topic (even though content is similar on all of them). Guy

I vaguely remembered something about that because I'd done the Atomic Energy merit badge when I was a scout -- with my counselor's assistance, I built a geiger counter, and we used his radium-dial watch and a mantle as sources.

I wouldn't exactly hold up our roundtables as exemplary, but I do like that when we have visitors, they are usually limited to 10 minutes or less. When I present sessions related to membership topics, I try to keep it very short and get to the questions as quickly as possible. I also try to change it up a little each time -- for example, this year's primer on Webelos-to-Scout transition was different than last year's. However, some presenters just don't get the idea. Last week, a council camp promotion team came in to talk about council camps (to the same 20 people that go to every roundtable). One guy talked, but then the chairman would get up and "add just one more thought) several times. Then they switched to the guy for council cub camps, and same thing happened again. My eyes were spinning in my head after 45 minutes of it, and I had even walked in late. Then we got the "if you have time, we have a short video for you to see." I've fallen into that trap before. My idea of a short video is two to three minutes. Their idea of a short video can sometimes be 15 minutes or more (after spending more than 45 minutes talking about the camps!). Luckily, last week's video wasn't so bad. Last year's was unwatchable. Guy

OGE -- don't let me get your hopes up. :-) The only time I remember something similar happening was when I was a teaching assistant in grad school. Maybe it was because there was a crop of rookie TAs coming in, or something like that, but at the start of my second year, the head of the department decided that all TAs would be required to sit in on a workshop on teaching methods. By that time, I had already decided I was more into the Socratic method. In fact, I was quite pleased to see my first evaluation from a student who made the comment that "our instructor doesn't like to answer questions" :-). That's because every time they asked me something, I'd try and turn it back around and (hopefully) make them think of the answer themselves (but I wasn't necessarily all that skilled at it). Anyway -- Trainer's EDGE doesn't go into that kind of thing. Guy

OGE -- I just went back and read that you have it coming up this Saturday. I don't want to be a wet blanket, but you're probably not going to be WOWed by the course. But you may pick up some useful tidbits. I was more fixated on the fact that I did think our trainers (there were several, each doing an approximate 10 minute session, and I didn't think that was necessary -- unless it was being done for their practice) were all that hot. Some of them were kinda stiff. Others were fine. Guy

OGE -- yes, halfway. Don't worry, it's not so bad. The first session was 2-1/2 hours, one evening. Then we have a two week hiatus, where we're able to spend a nice amount of time prepping our example training session. We'll deliver them on the second evening we meet, which happens to be this coming Sunday evening. I actually appreciate having the extra time to work on my presentation a little, rather than rushing it. I don't see how anyone could do that when it is delivered as a day-long course. BTW, my WB21C course was a two-weekend affair. When I talked to one of the main guys, and he pointed out that the course could have been delivered as a one-week course, I asked "but how does the project work?" I appreciated having the month in between my weekends to work on the project and also to plan our "patrol campout" for the second weekend. My participation in Trainer's EDGE is one small part of one of my ticket items :-). Guy

The prep time? I'm not entirely sure, but I think all of our troop guides spent considerable amounts of time prepping before the course was delivered, not only of their individual parts, but also in training sessions and planning meetings. I didn't really know my Troop Guide before I started, but afterward, I can safely say I am in awe of how much time and energy he spent, and of how well he supported us during the course. It was inspirational. Guy

I'm half-way through Trainer's EDGE right now -- the second half is this coming weekend. I'm by no means an expert on BSA training, but I would offer these observations and opinions: EDGE training (so far) is a very small part of Trainer's EDGE; I've heard people call the course a replacement for an old "Train the Trainers" course. It *does* have some practical information for trainers, and I'm somebody who is comfortable at being in front of people and giving presentations. But so far, I've sensed a downside too: I looked up the curriculum in advance, and I'm somewhat disappointed that it is being followed exactly. Some of the curriculum is pretty stale, if you ask me, and unless the Trainer's EDGE trainers try really hard, I think they have an uphill battle (that might be a way of saying that I think some of my Trainers EDGE trainers are kind of boring). So not only in my recent Woodbadge course, but also in this Trainer's EDGE course, I've run into what I feel are marginal to poor instructors. They could learn a thing or two, if they pay attention to what Trainer's EDGE teaches. I do feel I've learned something, and my example session for our second class (you present a 10-minute session to others) is using some of the ideas I've learned. One reason I'm comfortable "on stage" is that I've been a musician since I was 10. A long time ago I learned there is a difference between being able to play something and being able to play something on stage. I feel the same way about training, or at least those who deliver training. All of them are fine folks, but not all of them are able to apply what they learn in workshops like Trainer's EDGE. Guy

I'll agree with Eagle92 -- the primary ingredient is fun (which you may or may not be able to tell up front), with lots of activities. There is always time for advancement later, so I personally think a primary goal should be getting your son into a position that he loves camp. That will set up some excellent Boy Scout summer camps in his future. Guy

CPAMom -- I might also suggest that you take a look at the Webelos den leader manual. In it there are several different "programs" -- that is, ways to program your den earning various badges and marching through requirements. I can't easily explain them here, but there's a one-year plan, an 18-month plan, etc. With or without summer meetings. That kind of thing. My two sons went through the program in completely different ways: one did a full September through June, and then the following September through June. He was more than 11-1/2 by the time he joined Boy Scouts. My younger son quickly lost interest in Cub Scouts, but I convinced him that he could accomplish the Webelos Badge and Arrow of Light (and crossover) from one September through to the next April. At that point, he was old enough to join Boy Scouts (10-1/2). Guy

I'm not entirely sure, but when I just checked dictionary.com, I saw that fireplaces are enveloped by a "mantel" (and a "mantle" might envelop or cloak something, as in "the mantle of darkness"). Mickey, however, is on his own. Guy

Sorry to keep overloading this topic, but I've been learning this the hard way over the last couple of years -- To put it simply, I find that membership has its seasons, so to speak. Fall recruiting is primarily Cub Scouts, and then the next major time is Webelos-to-Scout transition, which typically starts after the first of the year. Boy Scout recruiting is meant to be year-round, and it is (at the least the national organization point of view is) open houses, boy-to-boy recruiting and Webelos-to-Scout transition. New unit growth doesn't have a particular season, but in my experience it takes several months to get something going. In between the major seasons, I do my roundtable talks (and due to roundtable attendance, I know it is a limited audience; so I send out email messages, kind of on a quarterly basis). I haven't mentioned Venturing, which isn't really big in our district, so I don't have a lot to add. However, I did attend a breakfast with my DE, a prospective crew adviser and the DE in our council that sort of oversees Venturing unit startup. I didn't have much to add to the conversation, other than "the committee" would help with publicity for an open house. My guess is that if you build a co-ed unit from the ground up, girls would not feel so uncomfortable about joining, and boys would flock to it, but maybe I'm naive. The prospective crew adviser didn't want to hear any of that. He is more concerned about talking to local Boy Scout troops and letting them know that their older boys would have an option for getting more high adventure. Although I'm not entirely sure, I would guess that most troops don't want another unit pulling away their older scouts. So I'm not sure how that will all go. Guy

Rob -- I know what you mean, especially the part about being able to branch off in all sorts of directions. It is a committee's worth of stuff to handle (district committee, and membership committee) and it certainly can't be handled (at least handled well) by one or two people. NJCubScouter -- I find that the units in our district pay little attention to the district committee. Most "transient Cub Scouters" (the ones who are in for only a couple of years or so) think of everything that isn't their unit as "the council", and don't necessarily understand the finance, advancement, activities, camping, membership, etc. functions of the district committee. JHankins -- you're on the mark about the membership committee manual. There's lots of detail in it. Lots of stuff for one committee to handle. JerseyScout, and others -- the district membership committee is not supposed to recruit! The point behind my story is that I have a UC hammering on me to recruit for two of his three units. In other words, his units have not figured out yet how to recruit for themselves. But -- our committee (me; and the DE) assists with flyer production (which relates to the annual marketing campaign) and distribution. I've also suggested a multi-unit "school night" but the units in my town each want to do their own thing. I'm trying to take the angle that with limited resources, my "committee" can only handle so much, and it is probably best spent in working on tools to assist with membership. For example, I realized that in my own leader position-specific training we spent close to zero time on membership. There is an opportunity for a district membership chair to develop a sort of into to recruiting for unit leaders that don't know how to handle it. There are flyers on year-round recruiting for Boy Scouts, and Webelos-To-Scout transition (you can find them, not so easily though, on www.scouting.org); I've delivered similar information at monthly roundtables. I also mentioned the fact that we don't have a single resource that lists all units in our district, with contact information, and maybe even CO name, and nights they meet. That could be a useful tool. Same thing goes for membership numbers. We don't know how many scouts or units we've lost over the past, say, ten years. Nor do we know how that compares to the council figures or the national figures (everyone knows that membership is down, but how much? How is our district doing in comparison?). I have a district chair that keeps asking me "our half-life is XX years, what are you doing about it?". Here is another real-life example: I didn't know, and local units didn't know, that Tiger Cub recruiting can start June 1 for Kindergarten boys. They are considered Tiger Cub-eligible at that point. I learned this from my DE last spring. So I quickly threw together a 10-minute presentation for the May roundtable that had a three-pronged theme: Tiger Cub recruiting from Kindergarten as of June 1, but that makes no sense if you a pack doesn't have a summer pack program. I then quickly went through some ideas to show how easy it is to throw together a pack program. Then, earning the summertime pack award. Guy

One more quick comment -- as far as fall roundups go, there is an annual marketing campaign released by national. All of the flyers that my DE has given me have been from that campaign. Last year, I recall it was NASCAR-related. This year is different. This next fall will probably be something else.

Here is (I think) a fairly good description of the membership committee: http://www.ctyankee.org/resources/membership/districtmembership There are five aspects of membership: new Scout recruiting, retention, program transition, abating dropped units, and starting new units. A well-staffed committee might have a prayer at doing all of that. As a committee of one, I tend to pick and choose where my effort is best spent. An example -- the Council Membership chair recently asked me to join a Scoutreach committee, but I feel I don't have the time for that. Practically-speaking, he is attempting to start units in an area that is sorely lacking in unit commissioners and the district commissioner prefers to make UC assignments to units that already exist. I don't think the Scoutreach idea will be successful, at least for now. Guy

OGE -- I can explain it with this analogy. My wife has said that she loves traveling to visit my family (SW Ohio, and Wisconsin) because she "feels like a skinny woman there". So that's the way I'd describe me -- I'd bet I'm pretty darned attractive, to a manatee. :-) Then again, I'd probably be safe if I figured out what "the look of love" is in a manatee's eyes. Guy

I just thought of something else, since I think this might be practical advice: for starting new units, there is a 12-step process outlined in the Membership Committee manual. In my experience, it is like pulling teeth getting everyone to follow it. Practically-speaking: I think it is pointless to try and start new units, without those units having basic support, such as a unit commissioner or some kind of mentor. But it seems like the district commissioner would rather support the units that already exist, rather than water down resources to assist a new unit. And, on the other hand, I have a second-hand report that a council executive scoffs at the notion of a 12-step process, saying "there's only three steps -- find the leadership, get the applications and get the money."

I'm a district membership chair, having been in the role for almost two years. I'm not very successful at it...and I still have a lot to learn. Part of the reason I'm not so successful is that I am a membership committee of 1. I should be recruiting others to join me, but I still don't have the contacts for that. I have a lot of other people telling me what they think the district membership chair should be doing. For example, one UC keeps sending email to me, the DE and the district commissioner, saying that he needs "membership resources" to recruit scouts for two of the three units he services. What he means by that is that at public events that his units attend (church yard sales, breakfasts, that sort of thing), he wants me to staff a table for recruiting for those two units. I get email from the district chair telling me that our district has lost units and enrollment, and what our current half-life is, but I have an extremely difficult time getting historical membership data from our DE. There isn't a single place where I can look to find enrollment trends, let alone those trends correlated with the council and national. Here's another example -- if a parent calls the DE, and asks about having a son join Scouts, there isn't a single source that the DE can point this parent to that lists all the units in the district, with contact information. One UC says "that shouldn't be difficult, it's all in Scoutnet" but I can't easily get that data. I have a half-finished web page, with serious chunks of missing data. Email queries to some units go unanswered. One unit leader -- and I had counseled his son in a merit badge not two months previous -- sent email to a UC asking "who is this guy, and why does he want this information?" I have a ton of other stories, but they will all just come across as me complaining. :-) I was warned, by an old trusted source, to beware. A DE's priorities will not necessarily be the same as your own. It is easy to get overwhelmed -- my DE and others keep trying to pull me in on spring and fall recruiting, Webelos transition, Tiger Cub recruiting for summer Pack programs, faltering units, Scoutreach, Learning for Life and starting new units. And yes, all of this is meant to be handled by the membership committee. But a committee of 1 can focus on only so much. Guy

Personally, I would be afraid to swim with manatees -- one of them might start thinking "mmmm!" and decide that I was to be its next spouse. :-) Guy

Shortly after I went "all in" with volunteering at our unit level, I had a conversation with my old Scoutmaster, who basically told me, "congratulations, you've learned that the program is only as good as the volunteers that are running it." But he also followed that up with "don't worry, I've found that the adults that I volunteer with are among the finest people I've ever met". He was right. The problem is not with the Scout program itself. It has been designed, revised, and been on constant trial run for 100 years. Sure, there are quirks here and there, but on the whole the program is solid. The problem is, in my opinion, that not everybody gets it. In my family's case, we were involved with 3 different Cub Scout packs (and we still weren't happy with the third), and in every case we were among the volunteers. At this point, I've been through a full gamut of training, and my wife has been trained as a Cubmaster as well, and I think we understand the program far better than we did before the training (despite me having been a youth members, and my wife's brothers both being Eagle Scouts). So what are the options? I can think of two immediately: - shop around for another unit that perhaps fits your needs better - volunteer your time at the unit level, but be sure to seek out training (there's a bit of it that is online, so it is relatively fast and painless) Guy

Maybe it's just me, but I think 10 minutes (to fill out a form), 10 bucks and yet another CORI form is a small price to pay for insurance. Guy

I've been involved with a couple of different crossovers -- one pack, the one my sons belonged to, had only Webelos physically crossing the bridge. Parents were left on the "far side" to symbolize that their Cubs were leaving them behind by joining a youth-led program. The other pack had parents cross the bridge too, since they were all leaving the pack. I've only crossed once :-), at Woodbadge. My only comment is that I was very pleased that my new SPL and Troop Guide were there to welcome me. I realized much later that the SM wasn't part of the greeting. I thought that was a nice symbolic touch. By the way, and I know this question wasn't asked, but I've seen two different styles of crossovers. The one I've seen most often is a combined Arrow of Light and Crossover ceremony, run by the pack with troop participation (in one case, the pack pretty much hands the script to whichever troop shows up first). In the other case, the "receiving" SM insisted that the crossover is the troop's ceremony and had nothing to do with either Blue and Gold banquets or Arrow of Light ceremonies. So I guess everyone has their own style. Guy

I've seen a lot of crazy things at potlucks, so what you're saying doesn't really surprise me. My kids' preschool used to have them all the time, and I'd see things like a dad bringing a salad in about 15 minutes before everybody was leaving for home, to a dad bringing in a single cheese pizza (and then hoping that only his family would eat it), to another parent that loaded up their kid's plate with the bulk of a tray of macaroni and cheese because "he likes it so much." What, and the other 30 4-yr-olds here don't? But I have funny idiosyncrasies about potlucks too -- for example, I believe in "true potlucks" where there are no signups, and I get the "but what if everyone brings a dessert?" That's why it is called a potluck! We had a troop Court of Honor and potluck at the SM's backyard pool this last summer, and I think it went fabulously well. At first, I was a little annoyed that while one mom brought a big plate of hot apps (which were very good tiny burritos) there were a couple of teenage scouts that were plowing through the plate. But then I relaxed -- if everyone else decides to show up late, it's their own fault that they missed out on the good stuff. That's potluck! The troop liked it so much that we're planning on doing it again this coming summer. Guy