GKlose

Stosh, Buff -- My two most memorable summer camps, when I was a scout, were the summers that we drove six hours north to a county park in Michigan, where we set up and ran our own summer camp. This was one of the rare times that several dads camped with us, and many provided the program for the week. Our own waterfront; a rifle and archery range; a "trading post"; the whole place was our own nature lodge. 300 feet apart? I have no clue where the other patrol sites were (although I knew in what general direction they were). Nobody was within a quarter mile of my patrol's site. We'd hump up water and coolers with the meal deliveries from the parade ground, and we'd have an adult or two join us for meals. The best part, I thought, was that "special guests" (such as the park commissioner) were dining with the "honor patrol", which was whatever patrol was leading the overall "points" competition, which was based on things like inspections, camp improvements, patrol spirit, flags, gateways, etc. Years later, I have no idea how this kind of thing can be pulled off, but it was great. Now that's patrol method!

D-rat: about the noise... In the process of me making multiple complaints, I said that I had no problem with those noise levels prior to 10pm (the alleged camp-wide quiet time), but that once we hit 10pm I had a problem. Everyone understood. Granted my troop's site was adjacent to the shower house where this took place, but other troops agreed with me, saying they could hear it too. The booming was exacerbated by the roof cavity of the shower house, but we were also talking screams, yelling from one stall to the next (yelling, not a regular talking voice which could easily be heard), and some "un-Scoutlike" language that another adult leader heard (then he heard a quiet "are there any staff members in here?", to which he replied "yes" -- and then he heard them scoot out very quickly). There was also the lines of scouts waiting to get into stalls, who didn't keep their conversational levels down. Times four nights in a row. On the other hand, I thought it would be only fair if I were allowed to enter the NYLT campsites (about 90 scouts and 20 staff, I think) and make a ton of noise at 5am. :-) But I didn't -- there was followup, though. Several scouts and staff members apologized to me. One adult leader said that they were going to work the "courteous" angle into their morning session and he started to mention a punishment. I told him, honestly, that I had no interest in anyone being punished, that I just wanted the after-hours noise to stop. Guy

Buff -- I can send private email with more details. But I have your email address at home on another computer. Here's a thought off the top of my head -- the mix of our patrol was 4 experienced scouts (13-15) and 2 younger scouts. Ranks are T, 1C, 3xStar and Life. The way our troop is, none of them have much experience at actually cooking for themselves. (it's difficult to explain, but of the rest of our scouts, about 20 of them, there are about 6 who are young and didn't sign up for camp, about 6 who are older and have no interest in camp at all, and the rest are scouts who attend a local "Eagle Week" that is set up as a provisional camping experience -- I understand and recognize the overall problems this troop has -- there are a couple of us adult leaders really looking at fixing this) Anyway -- to rebuild patrol method from the ground up, we're concentrating on "those that show up." So back to the six scouts in camp. Two things surprised me -- the newest (who happens to be my youngest son), Tenderfoot, was always the first one to volunteer to do anything. He liked cooking for the group, taking it very seriously, and he would jump in and assist whenever anyone needed help. Two of the others were the vegetarian and the ovo-lacto allergy Scout, and had limitations on what they would cook and clean up. Of the three left, one was our PL/SPL for the week, and I counseled him to keep himself off the duty roster for two reasons: he had to be willing to assist whenever and wherever necessary, and because he had all sorts of other responsibilities (including the twice a day camp-wide SPL meetings with the program director). He's also a special case -- he's kind of a loner and this was his first time at really exhibiting any kind of leadership. And he did really well. The other two scouts, one is a "minimal effort" kind of kid, and the other seems to be the kind of kid that avoids work at all costs. So far, the overall reaction of our scouts are mixed: everyone had fun and enjoyed it. The cooking and cleanup really turned out to be a non-issue. Idle time in one place versus idle time in another, compared to the regular camp we attended last year. The non-advancement emphasis of the camp -- this was probably the biggest disappointment for them. They're used to bagging merit badges at camp. (I've since been doing more reading about the Griswold Scout Reservation in NH -- many troops do two weeks, one at each camp. I'm starting to see the wisdom of that. There is also the idea that there dining hall camp, Hidden Valley, offers most Eagle-required MBs, and they have a "Trail to Eagle" session on Friday -- this program means that our other scouts that emphasize going to an Eagle Week on a provisional basis can pretty much get the same thing by staying with the troop for the week at Hidden Valley. Bottom line: we're now starting to think about two weeks next year.) Guy

I'm just back from a patrol-oriented summer camp -- during the week, I stopped in a couple of times to chat with the commissary staff (two women), to modify some choices (it was way too hot for cocoa in the morning, for example) and to read a couple of labels (does their canned spaghetti sauce have dairy in it?). Along the way, I figured out something -- just in our own troop, we have a couple of vegetarians, one severe peanut allergy and one severe dairy and egg allergy. The commissary staff told me those aren't so hard to deal with, that it's the gluten-free diets that are hard to accommodate. I worked in a summer camp kitchen almost 30 years ago. Things sure have changed. We didn't have to deal with allergies to this extent back then. By the way, from a patrol cooking sense, with a single patrol cook kit and griddle, the hardest thing we had to deal with was cross-contamination between dairy/egg, vegetarian and meat products. Sometimes our meals took a little longer to prep, I think. I'll admit that I jumped in a couple of times, to help clean the griddle really well between stages (french toast and bacon, for example). Another difficult part was cooking and cleanup arrangements. The vegetarian didn't want to cook or clean up things used to prep meat-based meals, and likewise with the dairy-egg allergy sufferer. Guy

Just got back from summer camp -- this year, I pushed for going to a patrol-oriented summer camp. Honestly, the camp was everything it was billed to be, and it was great. This is Camp Bell, part of the Griswold Scout Reservation, Daniel Webster Council, NH. The patrol cooking aspect went extremely well. Cooler deliveries to a central site, twice a day. There is a standard menu for the week, or you can write your own menu from a commissary sheet. Since we had a couple of issues (vegetarian; egg-dairy allergy), I stopped in a couple of times to review and modify our order, and to read labels. The program aspect was patrol-oriented too. Patrols sign up for various program activities, one per day. For example, Tuesday morning our scouts went down to the waterfront, did their swim checks and then went off with an instructor to go sailing. One scout who didn't pass his swim check ended up in instructional swim for the day. But one thing I really like about the camp is the overall design -- here's an example: Tuesday evening, all adult leaders were pulled out of the camp to go to an off-site leader's meeting at an adjacent camp (part of the same reservation). Our guys were left behind, and staff members provided coverage. Dinner prep had started when we were leaving, and when we came back about two hours later, dinner had been finished and cleaned up and everyone was off at a camp-wide game, running around and having fun. I wanted to shout, "YES!". Training for the adult leaders as well as our youth. Another interesting touch, that I caught onto our second day: at dinner, we had a single staff guest. It was always the primary program staff member for the next day. They came in early, to assist with instruction on cooking and cleanup if necessary, and then sat with the patrol during dinner. Then we spent the next day with them. We only had minor suggestions during the week, not even complaints -- for example, on our campsite tour, our guide made a big deal about latrine cleanup using two different brushes, one for the sink and one for the toilets. But then they both went into the same disinfectant bucket. I had one major complaint, but that wasn't related to the camp staff at all -- there was an NYLT group sharing the camp with us last week. Their program was pretty rigorous, so they were hitting the shower house every night after campwide taps. They made a tremendous amount of noise for about 45 minutes every night. After putting a complaint in "through the channels", I was forced to confront the NYLT SM himself on the 4th night. He was very gracious, but said that he wished he had known sooner. So much for "the channels". Guy

I just got back from a week at a patrol-oriented summer camp (Camp Bell, part of the Griswold Scout Reservation, Daniel Webster Council, NH) and the camp provided virtually everything a patrol needed. The only thing that may have helped, a little, is an extra cook kit -- we had one vegetarian and one kid with an egg and dairy allergy. So we had two kinds of cross-contamination to worry about. While I brought some extra equipment, almost all of it went unused.

We're leaving Sunday for a patrol-oriented camp (patrol cooking AND patrol-oriented program -- this is most definitely not a merit badge mill type of camp). We'll have one vegetarian and one with a potentially fatal dairy and egg allergy (luckily, nobody with a gluten allergy). Next year we may have one with a potentially fatal peanut allergy. The vegetarian is content with getting by however he can. But when something is good (last year, it was egg salad in the dining hall, of all things!) -- he wolfs it down. The dairy/egg guy eats bagels and bacon. I'm anticipating having trouble of getting enough bacon for him out of the commissary. I'll meet the commissary agent for the first time on Sunday. Guy

Great article. It sorta reminds me of Sebastian Junger's book, "The Perfect Storm" (turned into a highly fictionalized and somewhat sappy movie), where there is an entire, and fascinating, chapter on the physiology of drowning. Guy

My council is running the old BA22 course (at the parent's meeting, the BA22 SM told us "as far as I know, we're the only council that still runs it" -- but I have no confirmation of that fact -- a google search shows that some councils run NYLT but call it BA22). I took it during the 70s "All Out for Scouting" phase -- and yes, I made on. Thought it was pretty cool. Anyway, my oldest is at this year's BA22 course. Started yesterday. It will be interesting to see if he makes one too. (Eagle92 -- I remember your query about the syllabus -- I'll ask the BA22 SM at the end of the week). Guy

Some quick observations: I'm a "recently retired" district membership chair (due to a district "realignment") and I wish I could adequately describe how difficult that job was. Just as soon as fall roundups were over with, then came the "It's Not Too Late" campaign, boy scout recruiting, new units, Webelos to Scout transition, and then finally my DE said something along the lines of "what about Learning for Life?". What an overload of stuff, and it all adds up to either membership increase or (mostly) decline. With such an overload it is difficult to focus on a single area or two for improvement. My DE didn't have the experience of attending 5 years worth of school committee meetings, and I didn't have any knowledge of what Learning for Life is all about. When he explained it to me, I'm thinking to myself that the BSA has no idea how to sell this program. It's like they are providing an after-school curriculum (at BSA rates!) and I don't know any school systems around here that have curricula money burning a hole in their pocket, that they couldn't better spend on refreshing the regular school curricula. In other words, my DE was asking for assistance in helping to sell a program that I don't think will sell. He had a specific case where a school in a troubled district called him about an incorrigible, more or less, group of sixth graders. So he brought in LFL, and ran it him self for almost two years. No payment from the school, and when the school administrator was fired, the new administrator wanted nothing to do with the BSA. Kicked out the program. Two years for LFL, no payment, and an enrollment decline. Personally, I don't think membership is going to stabilize until the BSA figures out what it really wants to do and focuses. Guy

But don't you think it ironic that a Woodbadge SPL is appointed by a course director, and that the PL duty is rotated among patrol members so that everyone gets a turn? :-) Guy

My troop, when I was a Scout, would do sections of the AT every fall (Columbus Day; 3-day weekend). You had to be 1/C or above to go on the trip. We'd leave after school on Friday, hit the trailhead and hike in a couple of miles to a shelter. Then continue on the next day. The trick was that we lived about six hours away, so we'd be hitting the trailhead about 1-pm at night, and hiking in an hour. Anyway, as far as annual planning conferences go -- our scouts don't really know how to do it either. So we're planning on teaching them. I'm setting up a fall retreat, similar to what you've described, for TLT and other sessions. My plan is to include sessions on planning outings, planning a patrol activity, planning a troop meeting and doing an annual plan. I'm hoping the output of that session is exactly what you've described. I've been thinking this through in my head. This is only for PLs and the SPL. On Friday night, shortly after camp setup, I'm thinking about having the SPL running a virtual patrol meeting. In it, they'll plan a menu for a weekend outing (which, in fact, is what we'll use for the remainder of that weekend), and then also run an activity where they list all their favorite activities from years past. I am hoping they will hold on to that list and then can pull it out later, when planning the annual calendar. I've got a few other ideas too, but I'm trying to not overschedule the entire weekend. Guy

You know, I pretty much left Scouting when I aged out, and returned a few years ago. Somewhere in there, I misplaced my pink pajamas. Does anyone know what happened to them? Is it one of those gray area PC kinds of things?

I'm terribly conflicted -- this spring, the same time that our district was making an all-units blitz on FoS, the council executive board was making a decision to "realign districts." This biggest change in this realignment was to take our district and split it in half. Two municipalities moving east to an existing district and two municipalities moving west to an existing district. From there, the experiences diverge. In my new district, they followed the spirit of the realignment, where the district committee was completely reformed. The other guys, however, have entered into a nightmare, with all sorts of proclamations delivered to them, such as "we'll let you know what positions you can fill," and "maybe you should sit out a year and see how a good district runs things". So, I'm conflicted, and I can't help but think that it will affect FoS donations overall. I guess the point I'd like to make is that it matters. How we act as volunteers, how the professionals act, how the office staff acts. It matters. To parents, to volunteers, to communities. It all matters, and it relates to the good will one feels when they are making out the check to FoS. Guy

E92 -- I don't have a copy of it (and I'm curious about it too, because I went through the program myself, in 1976 -- woo hoo, All Out For Scouting!). But, my oldest son (13/Star) is going through the program in a couple of weeks. I know the course director (BA22 SM) from my Woodbadge course. The other night, at a BA22 meeting, he held up the binder, and to me it looks like it is at least a couple hundred pages. I'll see if I can get a closer peek at it, and then ask him about copies. Guy

Thanks, guys -- Skip, that's exactly what my first reaction was (I'm not seriously considering taking this project on -- I'm more worried about what to do at the unit level). But I'm still curious if anyone does make this work at the district or council level. I don't want to be caught up in only seeing the roadblocks, but as you've pointed out, it has to be your troop's SPL working with his assistant(s), and with the troop's group of PLs, not some random mix of an SPL telling a bunch of unrelated PLs what to do. So, allow me a "what if" scenario...what if you have an SM that isn't inclined to make sense of the watered down and vague program that exists. What if he were to sign up for, and bring his own SPL and the rest of the PLC to a weekend training session. What if that weekend session were limited to a small handful of troops. What if the watered down and vague program had some tangibles added to it. For example, the ASM friend that I talked to said that in his troop they've gone over the regular TLT module with their PLC, but they still don't get it. They don't know how to run patrol meetings, PLC meetings, plan troop meetings and outings. Could it work on the district level? Guy

Do any of you have districts that do some sort of equivalent of TLT (or the old JLT)? Our council has week-long Brownsea 22 (the old syllabus) and NYLT offerings, but a question came up recently. At a district event, I saw my Woodbadge SPL -- he asked me about one of my ticket items, which was to work on a troop-level training weekend for my troop's youth leaders (I've already sketched out an outline, and I'm planning on trying this out this coming September). He mentioned that it was something that his troop could use, and a nearby ASM from another troop, also a friend, mentioned that his troop could use the same thing. Then they asked me if I'd thought about doing something like this at the district level (so their troops could attend!). So, not that I'm considering expanding the scope of my ticket item, but has anyone seen or done this sort of thing? Was it successful, or did it kind of fall flat? I'd love to hear any stories you might have. Thanks-- Guy

I grew up is SW Ohio -- '71, '74: on our own, is N. Michigan '72, '73, '75, '76: Camp Hugh Taylor Birch (Tecumseh Council) '73: National Jamboree, Moraine S.P. '75: Philmont '76, '77, '78: Camp Birch staff '76: Maine National High Adventure Area -- '95, '96: Yawgoog Scout Reservation (Narragansett Council) '09: Wah-Tut-Ca Scout Reservation (Yankee Clipper Council) -- '10: Camp Bell, Griswold Scout Reservation (Daniel Webster Council) (planned) Guy

Last Saturday, for the second year in a row, my oldest son and I headed to a local cemetery, where the town veterans' affairs coordinator was organizing a group to replace worn and tattered flags at veterans' gravesites. He supplies everything: flags, replacement markers, doughnuts, coffee and water. There is one other cemetery in town, and the coordinator tells me they do their own thing there, and that he doesn't need to support it. It doesn't take long, and with one or two other troops in town showing up, what could be a two-hour job takes even less time. I had to leave on the early side this year, but last year there were a couple of women there attending to their husband's graves. I spoke with them, and asked them a little bit about their husbands. It was difficult not to get weepy. Then it dawned on me...even though I have no idea who these men (and a couple of women) were, it feels pretty nice to do this. I hope that someone else, in another town and another state, is doing the same for my dad's gravesite. Guy

Here is a document that describes ours: http://www.yccbsa.org/Training/University/110709UofSCatalog.pdf I was at that one, and at the two previous ones. 18 hour-long sessions total, so far, and I can only think of a couple that I didn't much care for. The presenter was less-than-dynamic, and I figured out that I was scheduled to be in another session with him, so I decided to skip that one and find another. One session on Wilderness First Aid was rather poor -- the instructor was a no-show, so there was a fill-in from the "instructor pool" came in and just started winging it. I thought the session was far too important for that kind of thing. Some of the ones I liked best were ones that I least expected. For example, there was a session on "Recruiting and Organizing Parents" that was fantastic. The same guy also did a really good session on Membership the prior year. I also remember a session called something like "Dealing With Difficult Scouts" that was taught by a child psychologist. It was a very laid-back session, but it was also very informative. So I think that maybe that is the key: the quality of instructors. You don't want just anyone "winging it". You want someone that is highly-skilled in their subject area and is a good presenter. In our UofS, there are still sessions that I'd like to attend (I've heard the session on the White Mountains is fantastic), and I would also like to volunteer to teach a session. But this next year I may also start in on the Commissioner program. I think our UofS has been a great resource. Guy

I've been experimenting with charcoal lately (a couple of years ago, I went "old school" and bought a Weber kettle, and gave up the gas grill). "All-Natural Hardwood Lump" charcoal (I've tried four kinds) starts up quickly (about 10 minutes in a chimney) and burns hot, but has a relatively short duration. So I prefer it for searing steaks, for example. One of the more popular brands of lump charcoal, Cowboy brand, is not my favorite. I like Royal Oak better, and it is cheaper in my area of the country. A friend gave me a bag of "Wicked Good Lump" which is alleged to be among the best, but I haven't gotten to it yet. "All-Natural Hardwood Briquette" charcoal takes longer to start up, doesn't burn as hot as lump, but sustains heat much better. Tends to be cheaper than lump charcoal. Kingsford is not my favorite. I like Trader Joe's, which is pretty cheap. I just bought some bags of "Kingsford Competition", which is supposed to be much better than the regular stuff. I also saw at a local grocery has Royal Oak briquettes, which I'll be trying out. Just in case you think I have a shortage of opinions, I think Match Light is crap, the Kingsford stuff impregnated with wood chips (mesquite, hickory, etc) is next to useless, I hate lighter fluid, chimneys are the way to go, and if you want to try out "low and slow" (even on a Weber kettle), you need to do a google search on "Minion method". :-) Guy

I was just at a district camporee a couple of weekends ago. The theme was "food" and one of the highlights was a series of cooking competitions: dutch oven, foil, and hobo stoves. That could even be broadened out a bit, for example, dutch oven desserts, one-pot dinners, etc. Maybe even add a box oven category. The other parts of the theme included a troop-wise emphasis on T21 rank cooking requirements. And I was brought in as a Cooking MB counselor. I worked with 4 scouts who had prepped menus ahead of time, and demonstrated their cooking prowess while we were there (they weren't able to complete the MB, only finish selected parts). It all went fabulously well. During afternoon dead-time, there was a couple of camp-wide games played. I wasn't involved in that part, so I don't know what they did. Guy

Shortridge -- the Backpacker item is fine, but it is somewhat misleading. Here is an internet source for the Everest: http://www.cpap.com/cpap-machine/aeiomed-everest-3-travel-cpap-machine.html (substantially cheaper than $700). On cpaptalk.com, there was a kayaker who used the Everest on a multi-day trip and he liked it. A scouter I know :-), considered the same solution, but balked at the expense of the batteries: http://www.cpap.com/productpage/Evo-AEIOMed-Everest-Rechargeable-Battery-Pack.html (the scouter was considering 5 batteries, for a 5-night wilderness trip) Anyway, the Backpacker also mentions outpatient procedures. Those (and some not so outpatient -- had a friend that did a total reconstruction of his jaw, more or less) and oral appliances might be worth checking into). Lots of stories on cpaptalk.com. Cpap.com requires an Rx. Sometimes sleep doctors are only willing to write Rx's for a DME (durable medical equipment provider). That typically means list prices and insurance companies get involved. Depending on your medical insurance, it may be cheaper buying direct from a company like cpap.com, or used from a company like B-Dweller mentions. I think the solar trickle charger sounds interesting. Guy

I have to add a note of concurrence to what B-Dweller says. Many CPAPs have DC inputs (the ResMed AutoSet II is unusual in that it requires a DC-DC converter, for reasons I don't fully understand). An inverter takes DC (the battery) to turn it into AC. There is a loss of efficiency in that step. It is much more efficient to go straight from a DC battery to the DC input of the *PAP (if it has a DC input). More efficiency means the battery lasts longer.

I know a scouter :-), that has a ResMed AutoSet II that he runs off of a garden-variety Black and Decker rechargeable battery he bought at WalMart. There is a DC-DC converter that the ResMed requires (which was about $40), but other than that, everything works fine. Used at summer camp, recharged daily in the nurse's shack. While the machine normally has a heated humidifier attached to it, that was left out of the equation, in order to reduce electricity usage. I'm told things were a little drier, but other than that, no ill effects for the week. The machine ran fine for 8+ hours on this particular battery (it was tested at home for a week prior to summer camp), and was not tested for 2 or more nights. It may have been fine. Anyway, this scouter is now working with an oral appliance (called a "PM Positioner"; Rx through an oral surgeon) and that is working out well. In this case, it seems to be a suitable substitute for "no power" situations. Anyone interested in hearing more can send me their email addresses through a PM. By the way, there is an interesting resource www.cpaptalk.com, where lots of people discuss camping and CPAPs. There are also a couple of posts related to this PM Positioner idea. Guy