GKlose

I miss equipment discussions, so I'll toss out a volley: The other night, our troop dug deep into storage (in the previously-flooded basement of an old church building) and came out with some old nylon tents, some of which are Eureka (including some unknown number of Timberlines) and others which seem to be department store specials. One was definitely mildewed, and smelled that way. Most of the others weren't so bad. I think after maybe a washing and an airing out, they might still be usable. After setting things up, and working through issues such as missing flies and broken poles, we're down to maybe 8 or so that might be able to be salvaged. Anyone with any firsthand experience at this? I looked it up online, and what was suggested was a washing with a non-detergent cleanser (e.g., Nikwax Tech Wash, which I know is kind of pricey), drying in sunlight, and killing mildew (if any) with a mixture of lemon juice, salt and water. Proper storage. The Timberlines intrigue me (and we didn't have time to set them up at the meeting) -- I've heard they are near bulletproof, and I know you can get replacement parts for them. Thanks -- Guy

Other than the two we have attempting to run the table, most of our scouts use this as their advancement plan (with their goal being earning the minimum for Eagle): - two or three years at regular summer camp - two years, max, going to Eagle Week at summer camp (for the bulk of Eagle-required MBs) - our COR/past-SM, who counsels a small handful of Eagle-required MBs - calling one particular out-of-troop counselor, who is local, for Personal Fitness MB It makes me very sad. I especially dislike the way that virtually all of the older scouts "defect" to Eagle Week, where they attend provisionally, but (in my opinion) do get "watered-down" MBs. I'm working on changing the culture. For example, when I came in, I signed up to counsel several MBs, none of which are Eagle-required. For some scouts, working on something with me (even though I'm within the troop) is the first time they are working on an "elective" MB outside of summer camp (where they only get the standards: waterfront, craft lodge, nature lodge, etc.). I'm also working on a plan to integrate older scouts back into the troop rather than having them attend Eagle Week provisionally. There's another nearby camp that does the Eagle Week equivalent, but as part of their regular summer camp program. That way our older scouts can come to camp and still work on their Eagle-required MBs, and be part of the normal troop fun that they should have been concentrating all along. Guy

We've got a couple of scouts that are making a serious attempt at running the table, earning every merit badge. I think they're over 60 at this point. One is 13 and the other is coming up on 16, I believe. One interesting side effect of them attempting this is that they are meeting a whole lot of new counselors all the time. Sat on the 13-yr-old's Star BoR last night. I really feel that he has made major advancements in his interaction with adults since his last BoR. Guy

Secondhand, but...I asked my son if he visited the Merit Badge Midway. "Yes." Well, did you work on anything. "No, all the classes were 3 or 4 hours long and the guy I was with only had two hours." But I was pretty impressed to see, in one of the Jamboree newsletters, that they went to a paperless (blue card-less) system of reporting back to the unit and the council that a merit badge had been earned. I'm hoping it might be something of a trial run for major improvements in online advancement reporting. Guy

Our contingent (my older son went, not me) charged $1500, and I felt it was slightly on the high side. It covered: Jamboree fee; overnight bus trip from northern Massachusetts (about 12 hours), and return trip (3-day tour); housing at a Cub Scout resident camp, near Philadelphia, for two nights; tour trips to Independence Hall, National Constitution Museum, Dorney Park (an amusement park) and the Eastern State Penitentiary. Jamboree clothing and equipment: a windbreaker, hat and neckerchief. Two Jamboree patches, one t-shirt (more available at extra cost). Small and large duffel bags. All patrol equipment (tents, flies, cooking equipment, etc). One training weekend. The one major thing I don't like: the contingent fronts the cost of the equipment, but the council auctions off the used equipment afterward, and as far as I know, pockets the cash. I've heard it is to offset expenses, but since these expenses (or even the budget in general) are never disclosed, I'm not sure now the balance works out. I did hear that the council scrapped plans for a DC tour so that the overall cost per scout would not change. Guy

I don't know if this was the case for all attendees, but when I saw my son's badge and neck cord, I also noticed a couple of extra cards attached to it, including one that listed suggested water consumption for different heat indexes. Another interesting note -- when I saw his picture taken at the arena show, as other units were filing in, I noticed there were cases of water dropped all over the place. I have no idea if it was enough water for the density of guests at the show, but at least someone was making a correction versus 5 years ago. Guy

I don't have either the current handbook or the prior handbook in front of me, so I can't quote verbatim (or to see if it has changed in the current handbook), but the prior handbook had a statement just after the joining requirements that says that an Arrow of Light recipient has met all joining requirements except for the Scoutmaster conference. My crossing-over son pointed it out to me as he was reading through requirements in his first handbook. Then again, I've heard of troops that more or less turn the joining requirements into a test. If the AoL/Crossover Scout doesn't pass, they start over. Guy

For a Jamboree, of course -- But as far as great stage entrances go, you'd have to check out Australian musician James Morrison. He's even sky-dived onto a stage. :-) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Morrison_%28musician%29 Guy

B-Skip, I'm starting to think that I need to look for a job down on the Gulf Coast. Your troop's program sounds great. Guy

I've been skimming the site from time to time, and it has been a great resource on keeping tabs on the Jamboree. One bit of constructive criticism, if I may: I typically don't like websites where information is buried several clicks deep. For example, to read the daily news, click on "Jamboree Today", then the date, and then the heading for the particular story that you want to read. Constrast that to a typical online newspaper (my local one is the Boston Globe), and you see news listings and a heading to click on for a single story. One click. Older news is no more than two clicks away. Then again, this is a very minor criticism. I think the overall site is packed with information and well-organized. Guy

About prepping in advance -- one thing I found is that I don't much prefer chopping onions at home, in advance. The odor would permeate the ziplock, and it seemed as if the onion wilted a bit. Flavor was probably fine, but it doesn't take that much time to chop an onion. When I'm at home, making a beef stew, I tend not to buy pre-cubed beef. I prefer chuck, and the local market tends to carry "beef stew" made out of round. So I will typically buy a chuck roast and cube it myself, in the size that I prefer, removing silverskin and such along the way. Yes, it takes longer, but I think it is worth it. So if I were making a beef stew at camp, I'd prep the beef at home, and probably freeze it in a ziplock. Full disclosure time: for my Woodbadge course last fall, on our second weekend, when we were doing patrol cooking, I was grubmaster. So I did a lot of prep at home. Yes, it occupied two evenings prior, but honestly I think we ate better and had faster cooking times overall than some of the other patrols. I made seasoned ground beef, for lunchtime burritos, some sweet and sour chicken for dinner, and did the apple crisp trick that I mentioned above. A patrol mate made some awesome chicken soup, and froze it, and we had that the second day for lunch. Nice, for a crisp fall day. Guy

VV -- you've hit my nail right on the head. I feel there is no better teamwork exercise that a patrol trying to pull off a meal together. Not everyone cooks, not everyone cleans up, but the team needs to work together to see it happen. If they're already a well-functioning team, so much the better. They may not have anything to learn -- but then again, there may be a younger scout or two that does need to learn, and the patrol can help him. I've heard the same arguments about time from other Scouters ("I don't want my kids wasting their time cooking in camp" and "parents expect advancement from summer camp") and I'm sorry, but I just don't see it that way. There was no loss of program or free time in our case. There was a loss of idle time, for a couple of scouts at a time, but the advances in teamwork were worth it, as far as I'm concerned. I felt gratified when a couple of scouts were talking about how what they had cooked was better than what they had in the dining hall the year before. And they had no clue about the strides they had just made in teamwork. Along the way, I learned a little more about our scouts -- I learned that one Scout, his first time in summer camp, was willing to jump in any time to help with anything, and that he loves to cook. I also learned that another, older scout, likes to putz around and delay things, and then ask for assistance from everyone else when he's "in the weeds" and running late. I also learned that it isn't so easy dealing with multiple food issues -- our 6-scout patrol had a vegetarian and one with severe food allergies. The patrol leader had to make some adjustments in the duty roster (the vegetarian did not want to cook or clean up anything related to meat, and the food allergy scout couldn't handle eggs or milk products), and we had to make some adjustments with the commissary. It went even farther -- the griddle, for example, was used to make french toast and then had to be cleaned thoroughly before making bacon, to avoid cross-contamination issues. This was great stuff for our patrol to deal with, and they did great. Guy

Just in the recent past, we've done a pork roast and vegetables, a ground beef and macaroni variation (what around here is called "American chop suey"), french fried potatoes (deep fried) and a fresh apple crisp. The apple crisp is something I've done twice now, because I'm not all that fond of the cake mix and canned pie filling recipes (they're too sweet for me!). I adapted it from an America's Test Kitchen master recipe (master in the sense of it was written for any fruit you choose, with variations on toppings). I pre-prepped ingredients and put them in two ziplocks, and then brought about 6lbs of apples and two lemons. Prepped apples by peeling and slicing, and then adding them to the dutch oven, squirting with lemon juice as I went (so they didn't turn too brown). When the apples were done, I tossed them with the contents of the first ziplock, which was basically some sugar and a little bit of cornstarch. I may have added a little bit of cinnamon and allspice to that too. When that was mixed, I topped it with the contents of the second ziplock, which was a mixture of brown sugar, oatmeal (processed in a food processor), some almonds (also processed in a food processor), and more cinnamon. I completely forgot about the original recipe adding some cut-up butter to the topping mix! But it turns out that the crisp turned out pretty good without it. I baked it for about a half hour, checking once after about 25 minutes (a paring knife, used to test the firmness of the baked apple). One trick that I picked up from watching CeeDub on TV -- he says that more often than not, when you can smell what you're baking it is done. Sure enough, that worked for me. When I first smelled it, I tested it and found the apple just a little too firm, so I gave it another 5 minutes, and it was fine. Guy

Bronco, there is a phrase that I have heard come up a few times. It is something along the lines of "sounds like a worthy service project, but not a worthy Eagle Scout Leadership Service Project." So in the case of your Sunday School Cabin, sounds like a worthy troop service project. Lots of scouts available. Lots of parents probably willing to help out and lead it, too. But it really doesn't fit the intent of what an Eagle project is supposed to be.

At the patrol-oriented camp we attended this summer, there was no net loss of either program time or free time. The "sacrifice", if you will, was idle time. What had been idle time before and after meals at a "dining hall" camp, was no longer idle time for a cook and his assistant, or the cleanup guy and his assistant. In fact, they were reinforcing the fundamentals of the patrol method, so I'd argue it was a fairly important part of their summer camp experience. Also, there was no net loss of socialization either. It just happened someplace other than a dining hall...at the parade field, for example, in program areas, and in camp-wide games. What we missed out on: the noisy dining hall experience with singing. But that was more transferred to the camp-wide campfires and at the parade field. Did our guys miss out on anything? Not at all... Guy

How about a slide that shows how many different things a dutch oven can be used for? For example, I know some troops that never go beyond the basics of a dump cake, or a cobbler made with canned pie filling. Guy

It's funny, but our equipment list suggested bringing a pad to sit on. I think I might have been the only person that did, and I was not only glad to have done so, I had to deflect all those envious looks and comments. Guy

Prior to a Court of Honor last year, a Scout that hadn't participated in the troop for awhile showed up for a Board of Review. I was on the board, but hadn't met him before. Our committee chair, first comment, says "I'm surprised to see you here -- I thought you were done with the troop." The scout responded that he thought it was important to finish First Class prior to aging out. When the Court of Honor rolled around, there was another new face. Wearing a uniform sporting an Eagle badge. It was the First Class scout's older brother, who had become an Eagle in the troop a few years earlier. Several of our older Scouts greeted him, many of them with hugs. It was obvious that he had been a well-liked member of the troop. I was touched that he came back to his brother's Court. The last thing anyone had on their mind was saying, "oh, by the way, you shouldn't be wearing the uniform" (or the Eagle badge). Guy

When I dropped my son off for his Jamboree contingent departure the other night, I bumped into my former DE. Our council realigned districts and our town was moved out of the district he is covering. We talked about several things, but one thing we did was have a little bit of a laugh about a cantankerous old SM who has been around forever. The DE really likes him, but made some crack about his curmudgeonly behavior. I responded with a "you know, the last several council and district pros have probably said that about him for years." It took a second, but the DE finally caught on. Yes, this guy is a curmudgeon. But he's been in the trenches, probably for 30+ years, delivering the Scouting program (and delivering it well) in his town. Yes, he complains constantly about Scout executives. But they come and go. They're just a flash in the pan. He's the one sticking around, through thick and thin. Guy

My number one son loaded onto one of three buses for the Yankee Clipper Council contingent last night, and probably would have arrived in the last hour or so.

I'm a former district membership chair (the district was dissolved) -- and every spring I did a brief presentation about spring recruiting for our roundtable. The presentation had three basic points: 1. as of June 1, Kindergarten boys can be recruited as Tiger Cubs 2. it makes no sense to recruit boys in June unless you have a summer program 3. it is really easy to offer a summer program (and I gave about 20 examples of things you can do) (I also made ancillary points about the summertime pack awards and not letting the "summer vacation tail wag the dog" -- too many units around here get caught up in the "but everyone goes on summer vacation at different times" -- so that's why you offer a variety of activities over the course of the summer -- those who are interested can attend) Anyway, there have already been a ton of good ideas already given. Anything where you can grab a handful of kids and their families will be a good summertime pack activity. Check out day camps, resident camps, local pro and college sports, go on a hike, arrange a visit to a farm, go to a museum or two, go to the beach or a pond, go on a bike ride, have a family picnic in a park. There aren't any packs in my town that have a summer program. Up here in the northeast, that's when the weather is best, and we don't have school functions to work around. Why force Cub Scouts to be indoors and only during the school months? It just doesn't make sense to me. Too tired after running the pack during the school year? Then find a volunteer to run just one event during the summer. Guy

I was in a patrol-oriented camp last week (I've given lots of detail under some threads in the "Summer Camp" forum) -- For us, it was not just patrol cooking (and I would say that we didn't really lose any program time -- under what was normally idle time in the campsite, we now had a couple of cooks busy, and after meals, a couple of cleanup guys busy), but it was also patrol-oriented program. Patrols selected their daily activities as a patrol, and participated in them together. This was most definitely not an advancement-oriented camp (although advancement is available -- for motivated patrols). I loved it -- it was novel for our scouts too, but I think some of the older ones were disappointed they couldn't rack up the total merit badge count. The bottom line for me: I think there is no better team-building activity than a patrol pulling off a successful meal. An example is when our guys walked over to a commissioner site to enter a plate o' food into the "cast iron chef" competition. Although there was only one primary cook, the commissioner asked what everyone had done, and they all chimed in with a "I hauled water" or "I helped get the fire going for the dutch oven" or "I was on cleanup duty." Guy

In this thread, and in the "just got back" thread, I've been fawning over Camp Bell in NH. They told us up front that they have a high number of repeat customers, and after having been there, I understand why. What I forgot to mention is that they have at least four kinds of outposts, and they made it very clear that if we wanted to arrange a custom outpost they would love to work with us (for example, last year a patrol arranged a "horse camp" outpost, combining the trail ride program along with an outpost overnight). The standard outposts include: wilderness survival, "Lewis & Clark" (they take scouts out to an unknown location and they find their way back, mapping as they go), "Castaway" (a patrol in an adjacent campsite did this: they spend the day program building a raft, and then they paddle out to an island outpost, for dinner and an overnight) and a backpacking outpost. The reservation has over 3000 acres, so they have some room to move around a bit. Guy

"On the other hand, does anyone think that having them choose activites/MBs by patrol is a good idea? (and I am not suggesting it is not...)" I wouldn't have known if I hadn't seen it myself... For those who haven't seen the other thread on the summer camp we just got back from, it is a patrol-oriented camp in mid-NH, called Camp Bell. Patrol cooking and patrol program. You can easily find the camp leader's guide online, and it briefly describes the program at the camp. Some eight or so major program areas, and within each area, maybe several different activities. The idea is that an entire patrol sign up for a specific activity or program area, one for each day. As an example, I think our guys (first-timers at camp) chose an interesting mix of activities that gave them a nice survey of camp: blacksmithing, sailing, "extreme" obstacle course (more like a junior COPE activity, with lots of patrol-building games, prior to running the course), "Mountain Man" (blackpowder rifles, action archery and tomahawk-throwing) and search & rescue. Every program seemed to be nicely thought out. There were a few program areas they didn't get to: kayaking, raft-building, water skiing/tubing, horseback riding, "logging camp" (pioneering and Paul Bunyan), wilderness survival, climbing, COPE, and a few others. Only two problems during the week -- one was that one scout didn't pass the swim test, therefore he couldn't go out on the water. The camp seemed to handle it well, because other non-swimmers were gathered together in a day-long instructional swim. The Mountain Man area was kind of a bust. After a morning of tomahawk throwing, our guys sat through watching blackpowder rifles fizzling due to the ultra-high humidity, and then when they got to the archery range, there wasn't a staff member present. So half a day was spent sitting around. The least of our worries: having the patrol stick together in the same activity all day. This is with guys that are used to a regularly-programmed scout camp where they are off doing whatever they want during the day. We still had some afternoon and evening free time where they could go off in buddy pairs (to open swim, for example). Guy

Buff - I responded on the other thread that my troop did this ('71, '74), and I have no idea how it could be pulled off today. But I think you've got a great start. I'll chime in on another topic. One of our troop dads was a purchasing agent for a hospital. He lived for getting great deals on groceries and sundries. He'd drive into town every morning, and pick up ice (for coolers) and the provisions for dinner and the next day's breakfast and lunch. He'd come back and parcel it all out to coolers, which we would pick up about 4pm. We had one cooler which had our delivery in it, and extra ice for the cooler we kept in our site (these were old styrofoam coolers that we half-buried to help keep them insulated -- nighttime temps would drop to the low 40s too). Since I'm a registered counselor for Cooking MB, I think you can easily work that in. Need patrol-oriented menus? A scout needs to do a 2-day "camping menu" and also a 2-day "backpacking menu" (no refrigeration; lightweight) for the MB, and cook portions of it. You also have 2C scouts that need to write a 1-day menu 1C, etc. Pricing out, weighing, etc. can be done at home. Our camp, in the 70s, had a limited palette of merit badges, as you might expect. Also, back in those days, you didn't have registered merit badge counselors, so sometimes older scouts would be signing off MB requirements (I did the bulk of ESci that way). Our SM would take care of most Scoutcraft MBs. I would think you could look at the overall advancement needs of the troop, and determine the subset to focus on. Tenderfoot to 1C advancement? First Aid MB? Camping MB, etc. At our recent patrol-oriented camp experience, program time was approximately 5.5 hours a day (0930 to 1200, 1230 to 1530); free time for an hour (1530 to 1630), although there were miscellaneous programs all over camp at that time; even program time, run by staff (games, water carnival, etc) for a couple of hours. Build in time for a Scout's Own service, opening and closing campfires, wide games, etc. A troop hike, maybe? Or challenge patrols to come up with a patrol hike? That could eat up entire blocks of time. I think you're on the right track, and it sounds great. Are you doing this in N. Georgia? If I had more vacation time, I'd be tempted to crash your party. :-) Guy