ghermanno

IMHO, This past year, I had the honor of teaching a class at the UoS. I also attended different classes during the time I was not teaching (I earned my BA). It was the first UoS I had attended. I have attended many Pow-Wows. The difference is, to me, like day camp versus summer school. Pow-Wow is meant to teach/rejuvinate Cub-Scouters with Crafts/Skits/Songs... The UoS teaches the importance of Skits/Songs/Crafts but also staffing, scheduling, funding, reporting,... More administrative versus hands-on participation. If you have the manpower and want a GREAT Cub Program, then I would emphasise Pow-Wow for Cub Scouters. If you want recognition, certificate, and administative skills, I would reccomend UoS attendance. I would NOT schedule anywhere near the same timeframe as you need people to run both programs and good trainers are hard to find. Pow-Wow requires energetic, smiling, singing, trainers that can enable the Scouters to get up and get involved. That's where they practice what they will use at the Den/Pack meetings and posssibly what to do if plan "A" falls through and you need a plan "B" or "C"... Just my $0.02. YiS, Rick

eisley, You stated: "We follow the same basic procedure of leaving it up to the boy to select. In our neck of the woods, most MBCs are in the same unit as the scout. We have a unit list of MBCs and then there is the district list. Technically the district is supposed to be made aware of all of our registered MBCs but I doubt that happens. " I hope that was in error. If "your MBC's" are not registered with and approved by the District/Council, then ALL the merit badges signed by them are null and void. As stated on page 7, ACP&P: "The council advancement committee is responsible for approving merit badge counselors." They may pass this down to the DAC but the responsability is still theirs. Our Council has passed the signatory down to the office staff. I put a halt to that this year. Either CAC or DAC members for my District. And I publish each month except July. Please ensure that ALL your MBC's are registered AND approved by the District/Council and get a copy of the approved MBC list to ensure that a boy does NOT lose the badge due to adults not following rules. As stated on page 26 of the same document; "A merit badg cannot be taken away once it has been earned, provided the counselor is a registered couselor for the merit badge." So it can be taken away if the MBC was not approved. Just my $0.02. YiS, Rick edited for typos (hope I caught them all)(This message has been edited by ghermanno)

SctDad, The list given are great. Some confuse BS with CS but that's OK. The biggest thing I remember about the old PowWow's was the books. You can't possibly attend ALL the courses offered but you get the book with the info (just not the hands-on) anyway. They were/are worth their weight in gold when you need a craft or need to hel another leader with something. Ensure to offer multiple classes at the same time, some classes will only run once or twice (cooking for example) as the materiel needed for the class may need refrigeration or be high cost per person (possibly one of the Webelos Craft items). Try to keep cost moderate which will be difficult unless you have someone (business) offer to print manuals cheap/free and your patches are inexpensive (remember these are for adults so no need to get too fancy). You want maximum participation so giving leadership classes (NLE, specifics,...) should be based on when you have it and how well trained the majority of your adults are. If you have training, have the training. Do NOT pare it down. Mostly, HAVE FUN. KISSMIF YiS, Rick

Northbell, First and formost, GET A LIST OF DISTRICT APPROVED MBC's for your District. Your Troop can NOT approve a MBC even if it is for Troop only. Approval is District/Council designee only. If your MBC is NOT approved by the District for the Merit Badge, then it has NOT been completed. Can it be assigned to another MBC in the Troop? Yes, IF they are approved by the District for that Merit Badge. As others have stated, the adult contact SHOULD be done outside the Troop, that is why as DAC, I reccomend ALL the MBC's that I train NOT to mark Troop only as that limits the boys they can serve. I also educate the SM's to try to use MBC's that are local but not in Troop. I also reccomend that the DAC meet with your SM/ASM's/CC as well as COR and UC if available to go over the advancement policy from "Soup-to-nuts". Merit badges are an important part of the Scouts advancement and getting out to meet/work with adults not in your Troop is essential (kinda like prepping for an interview). Good Luck if your DAC has not updated the MBC list. I check mine monthly and have people arguing that they should be on the list but will not turn in an application to me. YiS, Rick

Scoutnut, Some Districts do run summer camps. Not the norm but tough for Council to run a camp in another Country. fgoodwin, No, I never said they are limited to. I aksed, what a Cub looks forward to after attending Resident Camp up to FIVE years (Tiger, Wolf, Bear, W1, W2)? Pack212Scouter, Never said it tired them out. As a matter of fact, i used to tire them out at Day Camp when I was a Day Camp program Manager. Tiring out is a good thing. What I asked was the same thing I said above about up to FIVE years of the camp. I understand the "Theme" changes, I understand the "parent/cub ratio" as well. I also was a Resident Camp Program Manager. Just so you understand, it is not that they are not allowed to. Webelos are NOT restricted from camping, but should they go camping/hiking once a month? What would they look forward to in Boy Scouts besides a change of uniform? The topic was "How Common are CS Res. Camps". I answered fairly common. I also added my "Opinion" on CS resident camps vs. Webelos Res. Camps. It is just my opionion. YiS, Rick

NickP412, Part of the Eagle Project is NOT seeing if you can fund/do the project yourself. It is to see if you can arrange people/materials and LEAD a group of people to accomplish a task. I know it sounds strange but it is about LEADERSHIP not funding/doing yourself, otherwise it would be mostly the wealthy that achieve Eagle (as they can pay for a crew to do the work). Good luck on your Project and let us know how you came up with the materiels vice having your parents/family pay for them. YiS, Rick

Eamonn, Total Caos (sp?). How would you identify Scouts? How would you know if a person was a Scout leader or just some person/parent wandering the Scout Camp? The uniform WAS supposed to be the "great equalizer" as it did not discriminate between wealthy and poor Scouts/Scouters. Unfortunately, in persuit of higher pay, profit, higher costs,... the uniform cost has become an indicator of status for some. Middle class and upper class can normally afford the full uniform (wether they do or not) but some in the lower middle class and below can not (option to eat or buy a uniform). I am all for the shirt, necker, and hat with blue jeans (long or shorts) being the uniform. Adding a pair of pants that the boy grows out of all too soon and can not normally be worn with anyhting else is an added expense on most families. Ussually not a good one. Most families (all that I know) own blue jeans and wear them with just about everything. Just my $0.02 YiS, Rick

baggsjr, You are going to CM for multiple units in multiple Districts? How did the Unit register if it did not have a CM? I could possibly see the position being a "Para-Pro" or Council Program Committee Chair but that is not what you are describing. Are you talking Program Director for Cub Camp? You would be responsible for staff and the Program for the kids, be thier top leader at camp, but still not a CM. I guess, I could be wrong but I have never heard of a person assigned by Council to be CM for multiple Packs in multiple Districts. Let me know wht it turns out to be. YiS, Rick

Nolesrules, If it can be proven that the appeals procedure was not followed, Council or National should intervene. Unfortunately, they normally know how to cover their #$$. I am the DAC for a fairly average District (about 14 active Troops) and was given the job to break the "Good O'le Boys network". I reviewed a prospective Eagle Project with the Scout. Found some minor discrepencies and had them corrected. I signed off on the project only to find the Council had assigned a "Good O'le Boy" to handle all Eagle projects. He had a problem with the family and rejected the project and told the school for whom the boy had received approvals that they were NOT to approve it or face litigation. I was then told that I have nothing to do with Eagle advancements in the District. The boy transfered to a diferent District, had a different project approved, and had his EBOR recently. His turned out Okay. This shows how a District or Council can be hamstrung by Good O'le boys and cover their #$$ to alleviate problems later (even going around the DAC &/or CAC). I will NOT accept a Distict appointment next year as I am not a Good O'le boy. YiS, Rick(This message has been edited by ghermanno)

wahooker, The answer to your question is "fairly common". The names may change a bit and some councils/districts only have WEBELOS while others have seperate WEBELOS and CUB camps (that depends on financing/staff availability/location/...). I have seen BSA Resident camps throughout the US and in Asia (Korea/Japan). Personnaly, after being the Program Director 2008 for Korea District Resident Camp, I prefer the longer Day camps for regular Cubs and Resident Camp for WEBELOS. I know I differ from many but Resident Camp is NOT "Family Camping" which is what Cubs are supposed to do. What are the Cubs going to look forward to if they allready have three (3) plus years Resident Camping under thier belt when they become WEBELOS? (Tiger/Wolf/Bear) See topic "Cub Scout Summer camps" in this forum for what I mean. Soon they will want "High Adventure" for Cubs. Just my $0.02 Rick(This message has been edited by ghermanno)

I am curious. If you "pare down, cut back, or eliminate" part of the course, how do you present the pared down certificate? As a BSA Trainer, having attended "Trainers Edge", part of the certification was a promise to present the material as BSA requests and to request any deviations. Funny how we hold a boy to "Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful,..." but as adults we feel it is okay to cut corners, certify unattended training, and look for an easier way to lie without batting an eyelash. You can give the BALOO training at UoS. Just make the UoS eight hours long or have a follow-up two hour class. If there is something in the sylabus that needs to be eliminated, contact District, Council, and National to ask if it may be eliminated and the Scouters still certified. Otherwise, you are NOT giving BALOO training but something you developed as BSA BALOO training has a syllabus. My $0.02 Rick(This message has been edited by ghermanno)

Wow, Lot of drama. Actually, the boy AND the MBC are at fault if this is correct. The requirement, as written here, provides the MBC with paper copy of the script for the COH or Campfire Program. If s/he did not see it or read it then s/he is partially responsible. The first posting says it all: "a Scout has been awarded a MB". The Scout has already been awarded the badge so it can NOT be taken away. If it is found that he lied, and you can prove it, then you can stop progression in the BSA advancement for a while by having the SM have a SM's conference with the boy. The SM should have the boy write a letter of appology to the MBC for lieing and also do the requirement prior to his next SM's conference for rank. But he must be sure that the boy lied first. If he is only sure that the boy did not complete the requirement but not sure he lied, he can have the boy MC a COH or Campfire to complete the requirement prior to next rank SM's conference. You can NOT take back an award already presented. Just like the MB mills that give kids the Nuclear Science MB in less than a day or First Aid in less than half a day, if approved by the SM and signed by a registered MBC the award must be given. Just my $0.02 Rick (DAC)

Sheldonsmom, Having read the previous article, and perusing this one, I think it is poor taste to say that "If they are told there will be no R movies, and then the movies "appear" at camp and are watched by one and all with the blessing of the adults, then that is a trust issue." Where did the adults give their blessing? I understand they were advised of a violation of their rules and handled it quite poorly (did not take responsability or even have the courtousy to be shocked, but now you say they gave their blessing? did the adults go get the games and the movies? Did they provide them? Did the boys show them to them? You also state in your sentence that the adults watched the films. I did not see that statement in the original posts (are watched by one and all). I too, would have pulled my son from that troop if he had been involved. I also would have asked District/Council to look into it. But I would not say the adults did anything I am not sure they did. Maybe something was missing from the first post, like the SM brought the movies and games, but I doubt it. They may actually have some good adults in the Troop, but your comment paints all of them with the same brush. YiS, Rick

Welcome to the virtual campfire. Pull up a log, grab a cup of coffee (or hot chocolate, or cold drink) and set a spell. YiS, Rick

GernBlansten, I have heard, from some of our DE's, that parents have been complaining that they fill out contact paperwork at a Scout Show or Round-up and never hear from anyone after that. Maybe that is the case where you are too. Odds are, the DE's are looking for where the pipeline is broken so that they can fix it, not to point fingers at it. To do so, without pointing fingers, they will have to check a sample of people that went to good Packs/Troops as well as some that went to Packs/Troops that are slow to contact/get paperwork in. It is the only fair way (just like roadside checkpoints) as profiling is "not allowed". They are not questioning your integrity but questioning a procedure that seems to have let some boys down. Isn't that our job? To ensure we help as many boys as we can? I would not take it personally. If they want to look at your units referals, you can show them the ones you received and the contacts you made/attempted to make. Then wish them luck in finding the cause/solution to the problem or volunteer to assist them to find it sooner. YiS, Rick

There is NO prohibition against parental MBC's as John in KC stated. As he also stated, part of the MB program is to get teh boy out from under the people he sees every week and work with other adults. I am having this problem show up with people wanting to only work with their Troop. Scoutmasters are the gatekeepers. A boy can NOT work on a merit badge (at camp or university either) without SM approval. Let the parents teach and rage all they want. If the SM has not signed off, the blue card is useless. If he has signed off and the parents are NOT registered "and approved" MBC's the blue card is again useless. Some people forget that District/Council has to approve each MBC. As to the "candyman MBC", I think a polite letter of thanks for previous service and that his services will no longer be required would be the proper way of dealing tiht the problem vice losing the app. If you don't want them, stand up and say so. Do not be deceiving in your ways. Be polite but firm. My $0.02 as DAC. YiS, Rick

Mucho gusto, Bienvienido, pull up a log and join the virtual campfire. YiS, Rick

Thanks guys, Will do my part by volunteering and assisting where I can. Thanks again. YiS, Rick

Welcome, Pull up a log and join the virtual camfire. YiS, Rick

Well guys, I finished the Ordeal the 17th, went to visit my son this past weekend and had some time to reflect.... Thank you for easing my worries about the ordeal itself. I only hope that I can assist the youth and the community in a manner that will bring praise to the OA. I have heard from some members that this lodge is week in wanting to support anything but dance. I hope to suggest some changes by getting them involved with Cubs (Webeloree/Cuboree) and with the junior scouts (ideal campsite at camporee with alternate mistake ridden campsite). Of course I hope they will allow me to be involved as well, but it is their program. We will see if I can help at all... Thank you again. YiS, Rick

Wow! DenleaderAmy, Yes, a "normal" den is from 8 - 10 boys. You have stated that you will work with no more than 8 and your CM/CC/COR agreed. On the other side of the picture, I know a person that saved his money so that he could join Cub Scouts, filled out the app., went to the Den Leaders home and delivered the app. She was all smiles until she read the address of the boy and told him she would not allow him in unless his mother would start a den and be the leader. She had been a leader for many years and decided she had enough. The boy was the youngest of 11 kids (6 boys and 5 girls) and never did get into Cub Scouts. The other leader felt she was justified too. The boys mother knew what was required. Why should she take her kid? Here it is 40years later and I still remember that leader telling me "no, get you mom to do it". I NEVER turned a boy away from Cubs or Boys Scouts. I would find another den, help another person start a den, or start another den myself to keep that from happening. Feel justified. Years from now, the boys will remember. YiS, Rick

Maybe this will help, I hope the link works: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/18/AR2008011803722.html?referrer=emailarticle YiS, Rick

Try one of these: http://www.lenaperoundtable.com/files/DEN_DOODLES.pdf http://www.wtsmith.com/rt/denprog.html#DOODLES They have some genral info that is good and some ideas that your cubs can use to grow from. YiS, Rick

Twitterpad, WOW! You stated that you knew of her problems "before" she joined your Pack ("She removed a boy six months ago from her den because of a dispute with a parent. And, she has had several run-ins with District activities. She left her previous pack because of a similar blow up. I am the one she called when she left her pack wanting to join ours. She told me about the conflict, but of course, it was all of the other pack's fault. I know that NO ONE is 100% the victim and no one is 100% innocent. But, this became a trend for her.") Did anyone talk to the other Pack? You/your Pack knew she was charging $15@mo per boy (x 6 boys = $90 a month) and did NOT require any receipts? Has anyone in your Pack gone to training? Do you subsidize other dens? do you ever ask for reciepts? Does the Pack have a "dues" policy or does it just let everyone decide on thier own how much to charge? If this was just one month I would say shame on her but "Years"? SHAME ON YOU! You and your Pack let this get way out of hand. My previous Pack budgeted about $90 per month for the Pack (not for one den). Yes, the budget is old but less than 5 years. Get your pack some training and get ALL the leaders on the same page. This is for the boys, not a profitibale business for adults to fleece other adults (or kids). If your books were audited, and they may be if a parent requests, how will your CO explain the lack of any receipts for the den for years? The IH is responsible for the Pack and the finances. It reflects on their finances as well if not done properly. Sorry, I had to vent after realizing that the Pack ignored the problem and I have to assume it was from lack of training. My $0.02 Rick

To expand a little on what Click23 said, the standard "Committee Meeting" is the business meeting of the Pack or Troop. It is chaired by the CC. It starts with the minutes from the last meeting being read and accepted, advances into status of ongoing items like treasurers report, advancements,... then moves to "New Business". During the New Business section the CC can open the floor to interested parties (parents) to discuss something they would like done/voice complaints ect. The CC may decide to assign someone to check on the item and report to the committee at a later date or they may, if proposed by a comitte member, vote on it then. Parents ALLWAYS have input but unless they are on the committee, they do NOT have a vote. the CM, ACM, DL, ADL, TCL, PT, WL, and AWL all have voices but no vote. The Committee is there to support the Pack in the course that is laid out during annual planning ensuring that it brings good light to the CO. Rarely do they even have the dificult task of replaceing an adult (although finding new ones is a never ending job). Mostly they see if the CM and den leaders need anything for the next month and ensure that the finances are kept up to date. That's my $0.02 Rick