ghermanno

Re-Re-Sent. If you do not get it tis time, send me your email so I can send directly to you. Rick

I may be mistaken, but didn't we FIGHT the George that said "Support me or you are a traitor" back in the 1700's? Seems to me that we have another King George to worry about... Just my $0.02

OGE, Yes, WoolWorths and the five & dimes.... Some of us remember those and the penney candies..... RootBeer Barrels, Bazooka gum,..... Guess I am aging myself... Rick

Re-Sent via pmail as requested. Rick

In answer to the actual question, let me state the following: Can you count the same years of service towards more than one award? Yes, just as an atheist can pledge alligiance and become Eagle. Will the District sign the award card? Maybe. Most of teh time the District reps trust us leaders (Trustworthy, Loyal,...). Is National wrong not to allow work on more than one at a time? Maybe. I think so but it is THEIR program. If we want them to change the rules, ask them to. Can we teach honesty if we are not honest? (Answer for yourself.) BSA does NOT allow using the same "clandar periods" for working on different knots. It is not "vauge" it is plain in black and white. We are supposed to be guides/authorative figures. Do we want the Scout to emulate rule breaking? Are you going to give him Eagle because he is comming up on his 18th birthday even if he hasn't earned it? You can doctor the paperwork.... Just like the adult knots.... Just my $0.02 (I appologize if I spelt anything wrong.) Rick

Sent contact info via pmail. Rick

I make up my own on PowerPoint. Did that for Resident Camp and for lots of items.

I think the Tiger becomming an actual rank was this past year. Prior to that, it was a badge that could be worn but not an official rank. The Tiger Cub program was brought into Cub Scouts as a seperate item from the "Pack" back in the late 80's if I recall correctly. They were associated with the Pack and the Pack provided a Tiger Cub Coach to assist the Tiger Cub group partners. I think the BSA is trying to force the move of the Webelos from the diamond to the the oval patch by placing a spot for the Tiger. Like when they weeded out the Lion Scout badge from cubbing. Just my opinion. Rick(This message has been edited by ghermanno)

BW, Guess you msut be right agian. I can NOT have asked the units I have not met. But those in Panama, Washington State, Oregon, Guam, Korea, California, Texas,.. That I talked to all seem to know the "Urban Legend" that BSA bans them. I know they don't as was pointed out. As to the multiple units I have not met, of couse I can not speak for them. As to the Distict Banning them. They do. Wether they have the right or not, YOU FIGHT THEM. As to wether or not sheath knife handling was a requirement for my Toten Chit back in 1970, ask my Scoutmaster. Troop 7, Fitchburg, MA. CO - Salvation Army. I tried to find it. It does not exist anymore. You can also argue with this response if you like. I will not reply. Rick

With the limmited info, I can guess. The Cub Scout program has positions (Den Leaders, Cubmaster, and assistants) that have "Direct Contact" with the boys. The Committee, on the other hand, does not have "Direct Contact" as far as their scout duties are concerned. Now usually they are parents and do have direct contact but NOT as a scouter. This is like the cook in a school. They do not have direct contact with the kids like the teachers do. Doesn't mean the kids don't see them or know them but they do not have direct contact in their job. Rick

Getting back to the original post, I am saddened by the fact that most Scouts are NOT taught how to handle a sheath knife. I have checked with youth from various troops from Second Class through to Eagle and found they were never trained how to hand a sheath knife to another person. Large or small, the technique is the same but not taught. I understand the BSA rule and agree. Things like the Bowie knife has nothing to do with "basic" outdoor skills and camping but a standard sheath knife still does for skinning, making a spear, basic cutting,... All the things a "lock blade/folding blade" will do. My new District bans ALL sheath knives because they are afraid the boys will sit on the knives and hurt themselves. (Guess I shouldn't take them out in the woods for fear a tree would fall on them too?) By the way, when I earned my first Toten Chit, I had to demonstrate handleing a sheath knife. (early 1970) Just my $0.02 worth. Rick(This message has been edited by ghermanno)

Okay. For what it is worth: I just returned from the 12th Korea International Jamboree (co-ed). I found our USA boys to be some of the few that did NOT know how to interact with females. Maybe it is time we Americans stopped useing female/male models as SEX only. If we start thinking of people as people, maybe we would get along better. Why do we tell the boys tehy are better and that if they can't handle it "why don't they join the Girl Scouts" as if they are a lesser being? Their charter is not the same and ours needs to change as well. I was in Explorers back when we had a decent program and it was co-ed. It taught me just how equal the sexes are when working with the fine police officers in this country (both male and female). Hopefully, probobly not in my lifetime, we Americans will grow up and start treating people like people. For those that think otherwise, that does NOT permit a male from being a gentleman or a female from being a lady. Being polite has nothing to do with your gender. Rick

emb021, From your reply: "Thing is, the BSA is in need of more volunteers. I know from numbers they've given, that they have about half the unit commissioners they need. In many councils, volunteers are hold 2 or 3 or 4 different volunteer positions that really should go to additional people. "I remember the "Inner City Scout Handbook" of the 70s. Didn't we lose over half the Scouts and Scouters with that great idea?" Am sorry, how does that apply? The "inner city scout handbook" was bad, because it was part of an overall de-empahsis of camping within the scout program. It was a failure, BSA recognized it, and GBB came back to create a new handbook. How is this anywhere similiar? " Since I brought up the old handbook, it was simular in that teh effects can NOT be known until it either works or loses another ton of scouts and scouters. As to the District needing more Commisssioners, I hardly see where requiring a Unit to have more positions helps the Commissioner Cadre. As to your friend that tried to become a leader, I had the same thing happen to me (I am NOT an Eagle but had over ten years as an adult leader (both District and Unit) but I was a Yankee living in Dallas area. I went to Roundtables and to District to offer my services, they said they would get back to me... That was 1999... I am not waiting. I moved. What does that have to do with adding positions for PC to Units?

OGE, I honestly hope you are correct. But the only information I can gather is from their website. They state (I was unable to copy all their data): ScoutParents Unit Coordinator Units may choose to have more than one ScoutParents Unit Coordinator, especially those units with a large number of members. Your ScoutParents Unit Coordinator proactively promotes, educates and inspires youth, parents and mentors about ScoutParents, Scouting FamilyTeams and The GREAT Family FUN of Scouting! They also coordinate and assist in parent-mentor recruitment, retention and passionate participation in a Scouting FamilyTeam and as ScoutParents or other Dedicated Scouting volunteers. Your ScoutParents Unit Coordinator: Recruits your units initial ScoutParents Initiative sponsor(s), unless one already exists for your council, and orders your sponsored ScoutParents and other ProScouting material for your unit and Chartered Partner until your councils sponsor(s) is recruited. Promotes and provides your ProScouting sponsored material year-round to your units Scouting participants and Chartered Partner; Your ScoutParents Unit Coordinator also: Promotes and helps conduct with other ScoutParents Coordinators, ScoutParents and Scouting FamilyTeams council and district annual Scouting Sign-Up events, unit annual Scouting Retention/Sign events and year-round Scouting FamilyTeam Scouting Retention/Sign-Up Visits; Your ScoutParents Unit Coordinator is to their Scouting parents-mentors what a Cubmaster and Scoutmaster are to their Scouting youth. I believe the need for a sponsor is due to the required (around) $250 QuickStart package required for each Unit and Council (I think they mean District). Also, if this position is to be an aide (like most MC positions are supposed to be) then why make it MANDATORY and FEE based? All the "Scouting Parents" are supposed to be signed up as Free (PA) like a TigerAdult? Webelos and Boy Scouts are supposed to be moving progressively to self reliance, not Mom/Dad teams with them the whole way.... I worry because this will not be known till AFTER. Just like the "Inner City Scout Handbook" of the 70's. Remember how well that worked?

Has anyone notice the "FastStart" package that you are supposed to buy for around $250? According to thier site, it is for "Council" but I think it is for District. Each Unit is supposed to buy one. Thier site points to http://scoutparents.lawrenceprinting.com/ which is under construction as of today. (Guess it is getting ready for the surge of orders if/when National tells people.)

Welcome. Pull up a chair, grab a cup, kickup your feet and stay a while....

IMHO, There seems to be a bit missing from the story. You said "There was apologies and letters written to all concerned." Who other than the two boys required appologies? Did ALL the boys have to write letters? Did the SM (SPL) have a conference with this boy? Were decisions/course of action plans made? The after the fact committee meeting (without the boys dad who is a committee member) smacks of a private meeting. The failure of the CC and the SM to inform the parent and the scout of the decision of the committee smells of COWARDICE. This is NOT the Scouting way. If you want the boy to grow up, then the comitte has to GROW up as well. Be an adult and stand by your convictions. Let the boy and the parent know that YOU (if you were in on the vote) decided his fate in secret and YOU (if you are the SM) wnat him to either change or go. Give guidance, not backstreet justice.

I really liked this rule (from the 2010 Jamboree GuideBook page 17): Even if an adult has had a physical, is considered capable by his doctor and his council: "Physical Examination. All participants must submit certification of physical fitness on the official form, Personal Health and Medical Record Form, No. 67-34412. Maintenance of good health in a jamboree camp is of utmost importance, and it is with this objective in mind that the following must be enforced: (1) Participants will be expected to get a complete examination by a licensed health-care practitioner. (2) It is recommended that the examination take place not less than 15 days or more than six months before departure to the jamboree. (3) Participants will go through a medical screening upon arrival. In the event a leader is found medically unfit at this time, he or she cannot serve and must return home at his or her own expense." Someone at the Jamboree can say sorry, you are not capable. And the person has to leave without refund and pay his own way home??? What was that about "Brotherhood of Scouting"?

Okay. Read the post up to here. Here is what I summarized: You are NOT Camp Staff but your Pack is sending at least three boys so you are a Den Leader for the Camp. You either have another leader going with you or are expecting to be assinged one at Camp. You are planning the Den activities with the other leader for "free time"? You are concerned about other Webelos not registering on time but are not your children? Does that sum it up? Reply: Thank you for volunteering. Thank you for "Being Prepared" for free time. Let the parent be responsible for thier registration. Try to ENJOY your time with YOUR assigned DEN. If you dwell on what might of been you may lose what can be. Just my $0.02 Rick (Former Day Camp & Resident Camp Program Director)

I'm not quite sure I'd want to work on cooking MB on a "one nighter". That is a lot of gear to carry for one night (depending on where you are and allowances for fires) carrying stove, pans, cleaning water, ... Yes, I have backpacked with cooking gear (stove, lanterns, pans, fuel,...) but normally stayed with quick foods (MRE types) for "overnighters" to make pack lighter and carry more event type items (ropes, carabiners, helmets, gloves,...). Don't think heating an MRE would qualify for cooking (eating them sometimes doesn't count as food :-) ).

Absolutely!! Boy Scouts and Adult Leaders too! From BSA Site: Excess Insignia With the exception of the Cub Scout badges of rank and Arrow Points, members wear only the insignia that show their present status in the movement. Members should make every effort to keep their uniforms neat and uncluttered. Previously earned badges and insignianot representing present statusmake a fine display on a BSA red patch vest, a trophy hide or blanket, exhibited in the home of the recipient, or at functions where such a display is invited. Members may wear only temporary patches (no badges of rank) on the back of the merit badge sash. Members may wear only one merit badge sash at a time. A merit badge sash is never worn on the belt.

One of the BEST SM's I ever had the honor of meeting was in his 20's and did not have a child. Unfortunately he was "talked" out of Scouting by an adversarial adult (military officer) so he left (he was enlisted). It is not the age, but the person and the experience that the BOY's look up to. Not saying it will be easy (or hard) as I do not know your group but if it is what YOU want to do, think of the boys, can you help them? If so, then DO IT!

used them in the Jungle back when I was involved with a troop in Panama. Worked GREAT. I am a LARGE person. Back then about 210 (now about 300). I did not have back problems sleeping in hammock (did in regular bed). Insects were a problem in the Jungle. That's my $0.02. Rick

Speaking of "Armed Forces", the price the Soldier/Airman/Marine/Sailor is paying for a gallon of gas, on base here at Osan AFB, South Korea is $4.21. Just think what the price would be if they had to pay taxes on the gas....

My appologies if my acronym usage was not correct and offended anyone. Between the accronyms here (BSA) and the ones at work (US Army) plus the ones I used to deal with (US Navy) not to mention the US Air Force (base closest to where I live and location of Pack) I have TOO Dang many accronymns to worry about. I just thought someone else might get a "chuckle" out of accronym headspace and timing issues that were NOT them... Again, my appologies.