GernBlansten

Aw, Brent, now don''t get your dorky socks all in a wad. Do you really think a crisp uniform entices boys to join or is it the outdoor program? When you recruit, do you say "Join us and we''ll show you how to dress in a correct and complete uniform" Or do you say "We camp every month and go canoeing, backpacking, climbing, shooting, hiking, biking, swimming, orienteering and sailing." I understand uniforming is really, REALLY important to you, but to tell you the truth, the leaders I associate with (both from my unit and others in our district) its way down the priority list. Giving the boys opportunities to do cool stuff in the woods is our priority. The uniform really doesn''t help us there. It doesn''t work for that, its just not practical for that. It works well for parlor scouts at indoor meetings and those who want to look pretty for parades. If I had to choose between a unit that had a great outdoor program and one that uniformed correctly, I''d choose the former. I think most boys would too. No, I can''t recite page and paragraph to the prioritization of the 8 methods (I doubt you can either), but common sense dictates you must have a functional outdoor program first to attract the boys. I''m not saying you can''t do both but if I had to choose...

Ed, Its not splitting hairs, its an important distinction. In one case, the prayer is endorsed by the government. In the other, its only endorsed by the individual. I''ll let you figure out which is which. On second thought, I should probably step you through it. If the student is using the PA, podium or class agenda to say their prayer, that is endorsement by the administrators. If the student stands up in the lunchroom and says the prayer, that is not endorsement by administrators and is protected. So Ed, do you now understand why we don''t accept your claim that prayer in school is not allowed?

MegaDittos Beav, Uniforming is the easiest of the methods to accomplish (especially in an adult led unit), yet without the other methods established, will probably drive new scouts away. Imagine joining a troop that didn''t do much more than uniform inspections. Not fun. Our unit has a great outdoor method and we are currently working on the patrol method. Our leaders uniform properly (save me as I won''t wear the dorky socks ) but we don''t push the issue too much, yet. Leadership by example. Its just lower on the to do list. We are truly putting all our effort in the patrol method and being boy led. We don''t sweat the petty stuff, or pet the sweaty stuff.

Ed, Because with the PA, the students are compelled to sit quietly and listen to it by the authorities.

Ed, Merlyn is right. You are not connecting. Let me see if I can frame this a bit clearer. It isn''t about silent prayer, you can pray in school vocally too. You are protected by the 1st Amendment on that. Personal prayer whether silent or vocal is protected. Its when you use the resources of the government to project your prayer is where the line is drawn. So, your statement that "Prayer in school is not allowed" is false. Prayer in school is allowed. Using the school to enjoin students or broadcast your prayer is not. For me this is a simple concept to understand. I hope I have clarified it for you.

That REI halfdome $100 sale sure got our troop more uniformed. Real nice tent for the money. All but one of our Philmont crew had them. We looked sharp on the trail, however we didn''t line them up with a transit to look like a little military encampment. Pesky trees got in the way.

I guess I''d be OK with group prayer in school as long as it was my prayer. A watered down, non-denominational prayer isn''t sufficiently powerful enough to correct the moral deviations of today''s youth. Perhaps we are better to leave praying to the individual. So is the claim that there is no prayer in school a canard?

I''ve often wondered if those who want state sponsored religion have looked at other nations that support it. Should America become more like those nations?

Group prayer or individual prayer? If its group prayer where the school resources are used to deliver it, then yes, no prayer. Please give us an instance of personal prayer being illegal or not allowed in schools. You are free to pray whenever, whereever you want. That''s protected by the 1st.

Gonzo, Saw a bumpersticker the other day that got me to thinking. "There is no freedom of religion without first having freedom from religion."

Our Philmont motto was, "Hopelessly lost, but making good time."

When one wants to worship God''s work, go into the wilderness. When one wants to worship man''s work, go into a church.

I wonder if they filed a valid tour permit? Could have been the difference between life and death.

If you love something, set it free. If it comes back it is yours. If it doesn''t, track it down and kill it.

Yeah, I guess its where your priorities are. What''s the old saying, "Image is everything." If a neat, military, uniform campsite is your goal, then you gots to go with troop tents. You''ll never achieve it with a boy owned tenting troop. Adults seem to care about this more than the boys, I''d ask them.

Our troop has troop owned tents, but no one ever uses them. They are there if needed. We allow scouts to bring their own and recommend they get backpacking tents so that keeps them sized to two man styles. I think its good they get their own tents. A sense of ownership. They tend to take of them too. If anything, it can create some friction if both tent mates want to use their own tent and have to flip a coin. Adults on the other hand have some giant Taj Mahals! I often ask if I can setup my one man in the vestibules.

I''m a fast hiker. Usually the fastest in the crowd and it can be painful being held back by a really slow hiker. Having to restrict my natural gait isn''t pleasant. So I''m usually forced to wait, hike to the pack, wait, hike to the pack, wait.... At Philmont, one of the scouts was really slow. We tried putting him in the lead, and it just made the entire crew miserable. We tried different spots in the line and he would always percolate to the rear by us advisers. So I got to watch him for hours on end and his hiking technique. I finally came to me that he was walking on his toes and not extending his gait. V8 moment. Started to coach him to extend, place his heel, roll to his toes, repeat. I know this sounds crazy, but I was teaching him how to walk. His gait improved and he was able to keep up with the other scouts. He was less tired. Of course, he would constantly slip back to his old gait, but a quick reminder would correct it again.

Being an involved parent is inserting yourself into your childs education process. It doesn''t mean spending countless hours volunteering, it means making sure you know what they are doing, how they are doing and adjusting and correcting as necessary. It means tutoring, coaching, mentoring, disciplining. It means reviewing report cards and assignments and contacting the teachers for development plans. Look at the PS failures, their parents just don''t care and have given up. That''s why I think that homeschooling is superior is a myth. If those same parents sent their kids to PS, they (the parents) would be just as involved and their children would excel to the same degree or better.

I wouldn''t be so much concerned about advancement as I would be that you might dumb down your activities to meet the lower physical capabilities of this one scout. You seem like a gung ho active troop. I''d have a meeting with the scout and his mom to explain the type of physical demands typical of one of your campouts. If he can''t or won''t put out the effort, perhaps he would be a better fit in a more docile car camping troop. I just can''t see how you can meet his needs without lots of parental support.

$1000 is pretty good, especially from Ohio. We live 3 hours driving and our contingent cost was $650/scout which included the trek, 3 shirts, gas and patches. Crew gear was not included but most of us already had the stuff.

I suggest sending an APB out to the UP to get the 411 on the wacko in the jacko.

You say venture, I say potatoe, lets call the whole thing off. Actually, we do refer to it as a venture patrol because all the members are part of our sister venture crew. Is the term venture patrol still valid, or a remnant of a bygone era? Can we still get the venture patch? Would the UP put the clappers on them if they wore it?

Exactly Hunt, and without public schools, Texas wouldn''t have its alternate religion, High School Football.

Hey, you work hard, you play hard. Self employed. Made some good choices early in life. I posted that as a dream vacation for most. Something you might do once in a lifetime. Something your kids might remember. And the costs align with the typical cost for a national HA. My point is, if you get the opportunity, and can swing the costs, do it.

A little reality check. Cost of a typical Blansten family vacation (two adults, two kids): Yacht rental in the BVI (British virgin islands) for a week (off season): $2500 Plane tickets to BVI for 4: $3500 Provisions (no alcohol): $750 Incidentals: $1000 Total: $7750 Cost per person: $1937.50 Don''t even get me started on Dizzyland. Philmont, Seabase and NTiers is a bargain.