GernBlansten

Undercover U.P.! HA! That's an oxymoron. If the flag is worn on the front of the uniform, I would assume that orientation would follow wall display etiquette as motion to the right would indicate flowing back. Motion to the left would be wrong. We all know right is right, left is wrong. At least politically.

Pack, One man's tub is another man's passion. JKC, Kudos to Gen Shoomaker. He saw that the flag patch was indeed the ultimate in the demonstration of patriotism and could never have been perceived as in retreat. Now to all those organizations who continue to paint the USA as a country of quitters, I submit: "These colors don't run!". Go forth and change your patch orientation. Show those who hate us for our freedom that we will not falter. I predict the orders for Chinese made US flag patches in the correct orientation to surge.

Tell me about red tape. I have one scout who is 17, Asperger Syndrome, has been trying for a year with different agencies to get his project approved. They just won't commit. Rather disheartening for the lad. The more committees that need to review and approve, the less likelihood the project will move forward.

Be careful OGE, we are talking boats, not ships. You can put a boat on a ship, but not the reverse. An ensign is a distinguishing flag. Just another term for flag. Like rope, sheet, halyard, line, painter. The lovely thing about yachting is learning that each term has a specific usage and meaning, but in the end they are the same.

At the risk of hijacking my own critically important thread, a Genoa is not a downwind sail. At least on competitive racing yachts. A genoa is an overlapping jib on a sloop. It extends from the bow of the boat past the mast and has a free floating clew (no boom). A downwind racing sail is a Spinnaker, a colorful parachute style sail that flys off the bow of the boat and is useless going upwind. Now how a flag reacts to these sails is interesting. Remember, the flag must only fly on a halyard strung from a yardarm on the mast, or off a staff on the stern of the boat. Going upwind with a genoa, apparent wind, the wind you feel on the boat, will be forward of the mast and the flag in either location will be streaming magnificently toward the stern as it is true wind speed plus boat speed. Once the yacht reaches the upwind mark and turns downwind, she will drop the genoa, raise the spinaker and run with the wind to the leeward mark. In this mode, the flag will either be streaming forward toward the bow, or if the yacht has reached the same speed as the wind, hang flaccidly. Apparent wind will be near zero or slightly from astern. This can be annoying if you are standing near the stern and the flag is flicking around your head. In either mode, hull speed will have no impact on the orientation of the colors. Hull speed is a term to describe the realistic maximum speed a yacht can go and is related to her length, draft, hull shape and wavelength of water at speed. Usually between 6 and 8 knots for most personal yachts. Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.

Pack, you are my new BFF. OMG, I thought these stoves were long discontinued and scrapped. Just goes to show you can't kill a good idea. Kinda makes me feel like a schuck for paying $40 for a parts stove on Ebay when I can get new parts here. Now where did the Mrs put that credit card!

Pack, those pictures are of modern sloops. They perform well upwind at points up to 40 degrees true wind so any flag streaming from a staff could be streaming back. However, sloops were not used in battle. That was the time of large square riggers which could at best gain 70 degrees upwind of true wind. In any case with these vessels, the flag would be streaming abeam or forward, never back. At work yesterday, I noticed our company security forces having a properly oriented flag patch on their right shoulders. Clear violation of the flag code as they are not the military, fire, police or patriotic organization. I wonder if Blackwater wears the flag in the correct orientation?

Ebay is also a good resource for finding old camping gear to be used for salvage parts. I've bought another SVEA stove just for parts. However, they are fetching collector prices now.

The metro district is only concerned about someone getting injured during the project and them being held liable. They are demanding that we show proof of this insurance and I assume my local office will be able to provide that documentation. They are not concerned about the liablity of the quality of construction. The job is a resurfacing of an existing roof. Not much chance to cause structural threats. Since they are also a local government agency, they also require that we sign a statement declaring all workers be legal US citizens or registered aliens. Had to chuckle on that one. Not sure about our SM. And some of the scouts do seem to be from another planet.

Yeah, but with the attention to safety details required to properly fill and operate a liquid fueled stove is higher than a bottled fuel stove. Considering the attention span of most scouts, this is a considerable safety concern that can be mitigated by just using canned fuel. Not saying they can't do it, just saying the difference is a quick poof and some burnt hair smells or a lengthy WOOOF and the smell of burning nylon!

Dang Stosh, Now here's the situation. I'm gonna be standing at the back of our troop next meeting when the colors are presented wearing my optional flag patch in the wrong orientation on my arm and verbally violating the flag code as I recite the pledge making sure I emphasis the phrase added during the 1950s commie scare. All the while knowing that I've violated untold ordinances, creeds, codes and uniform guides. Whoa is me! DON'T TAZE ME BRO!

I've got a 50 year old SVEA stove I just can't part with. Can't get parts, leaks, darn dangerous, but makes the sweetest jet afterburner sound imaginable. Burns anything liquid with a flash point. Did I mention dangerous? Love that stove. But, isobutane and propane is heads and shoulders more safe and cleaner. Just don't work worth a darn sub-zero.

I don't want to mess up the other thread on insurance with a legitimate question. I just attended our local metropolitan district meeting and one of our scouts presented an Eagle scout project proposal to the board. They were very receptive to his proposal (replacing a shingle roof on a community picnic area). However, they asked about liability insurance. Caught him and me flat footed. I told him we needed to check with our council and get back to the board. I'll run it by my district office tomorrow. But in the mean time, does BSA insurance cover the scouts and volunteers during the execution of the project? My gut feeling says yes.

TJ, don't feel singled out. It seems you and your ilk are not God's only creatures that are enduring this wrath. http://www.godhatesshrimp.com/

I like it FScouter. However, I wouldn't want to taunt the U.P. They can get quite testy.

"Don't TAZ me bro." has entered into the pop-lexicon after a student at the University of Florida became disruptive at an speech by John Kerry. The campus police tazered him to submission after repeated pleas from the perp "Don't TAZ me BRO!" It has become the battle cry against police oppression by free speechers across the country. So, my quip asks whether the Uniform Police (U.P.) will taz me if I alter my presentation of the colors on my uniform? BTW, I agree, the official insignia guide doesn't say whether the flag is optional. And although it depicts the flag in the wrong orientation, it doesn't reference orientation. So one could argue that orientation is discretionary. One could also assume that since only incorrectly oriented flag patches are sold by scout shops, wearing a correctly oriented flag from an outside vendor would violate the spirit of the guide and undercut the profits of the shop. I just hope that when the next republican congress pushes the flag protection ammendment, they include patch orientation. Remember, these colors don't run!

Good catch scoutmomma. I was also not aware the flag was optional. I bet Barak Obama would be happy to hear that! I found this cite also... "...the International Civil Aviation organization decreed that flags painted on aircraft must face the direction of the flight, so as to be aerodynamically and aesthetically correct. We also recommend that flags or flag decals on vehicles and flag patches on uniforms should be so oriented." National Flag Foundation As for sailing ships going into battle with the flag streaming forward, you do realize that when sailing (old school) ships go into battle, they did so with the wind at their back. Hard to maneuver upwind. Tactical advantage. So that depiction is correct and would be inaccurate if done with the flag streaming back. Now when modern (mechanically powered) ships go into battle, they usually do so in excess of the apparent wind so the flag would be appropriately be depicted streaming back.

Well, I'm not so sure. The local police force wear it so that the union is forward. So it ain't just a military thing. And come to think about it, it does seem more correct than the BSA orientation. Since the flag is our ultimate patriotic symbol, wouldn't it be appropriate to wear it correctly as a symbol of forward progress instead of retreat? Does wearing the flag in retreat disrespectful like wearing it upside down? If I swapped out my incorrectly oriented flag patch with a correctly oriented one, could the U.P. taz me?

So, I'm standing at the back of troop meeting last night, reading a flag etiquette guide I found in the scout closet. Imagine my shock and embarrassment as I read the section on flag patch placement and orientation. "the flag patch on the left sleeve of a uniform should have the union to the viewer's left while a patch on the right sleeve should be displayed with the union to the viewer's right so that, in both cases, the flag is facing forward and is streaming to the back as the person moves forward." http://flagandbanner.com/fab/flag.asp?cpage=etiquette1#3 A quick glance of my right shoulder and my worst fears were confirmed. My flag patch was backwards. I scanned the audience, every-one's patch was backwards. How could this travesty happen? Who approved this? Can it be corrected? Can we get an exemption? Will the U.P. taz me bro?

Last weekend had 10 inches of the stuff on my driveway (7000ft). Already melted, but had to plow it anyways. Went backpacking with the boys 3 weeks ago and got 8 inches (11,000ft). Above timberline, its snowcapped. A-Basin ski area opened earlier this month. Gonna be good year me thinks.

Another excellent example of a local option being the best option. Leave it up to the CO. And keep you zippers zipped. Sleeping bag ones too.

A more common sense guideline would be "no sex at campouts" Period! Not between leaders, scouts, or scouts and leaders. Not even between spouses. Wait until you get home.

Oh no, the war on Halloween has begun! This the season. How about a holiday jingle to get us in the mood. http://www.goblinville.com/pages/writings/lyrics/worms-crawl.htm The lyrics so we can all sing along... The Worms Crawl In Did you ever think, as a hearse goes by, That you might be the next to die? They wrap you up in a big white sheet, And bury you down about six feet deep They put you in a big black box, And cover you up with dirt and rocks, And all goes well, for about a week, And then the coffin begins to leak! The worms crawl in, the worms crawl out, The worms play pinochle on your snout. They eat your eyes, they eat your nose, They eat the jelly between your toes. A great big worm with rolling eyes, Crawls in your stomach and out your eyes, Your stomach turns a slimy green, And pus pours out like whipping cream. You spread it on a slice of bread, And that's what worms eat when you're dead.

Pack, my point is that I don't get to choose when to have sex. That would be my lovely spouse who gets to choose.

I'm married. I don't choose to have sex. And when the opportunity does present itself, albeit rarely , I don't have the option of choosing hetero or homo. Kinda like being right handed. Everytime I pick up a pen to make a note, I don't choose to use my right hand over my left. I just naturally pick it up in my right hand. Sure, I've been left curious and tried to write with my left hand, but that doesn't make me left handed does it?