GernBlansten

I was the first in the troop to get switchbacks (and the biggest salesman for them). I'll be the first to sport the new uniform shirt. I just like being different.

I get it GW, All religions are equal in the BSA, just some religions are more equal.

So is belief in God also by association belief in Satan? Can the two be separated? Could one then deduce that if inseparable that the DRP could easily be re-worded to require a belief in Satan to suffice BSA membership requirements? If such a declaration were made, would one then deduce that the BSA condons devil worshiping? Things that make you go hmmmmm.

Leave nothing but footprints, take nothing but memories is a good start, but there's a lot more to LNT than that. But you are right, that's enough for the cubbies to absorb. When they become boy scouts, they can get the whole biscuit. Maybe some of it will sink in before they become adults.

America, Love it or Leave it!

Well, there are all manner of lesser imps and demons, Packsaddle, but the great Satan hisself is red and scaly with a bifurcated tail, and he carries a hay fork.

Uh DUHHHHH, Merlyn is the one with the horns.

Just for Packsaddle. A little diddy by my favorite Texas governor wannabe... "Well, a redneck nerd in a bowling shirt was a-guzzlin lone star beer Talking religion and-uh politics for all the world to hear. they oughta send you back to russia, boy, or new york city one (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

So to be a member of BSA, a scout must follow the oath and law or face being kicked out? I know lots of scouts who aren't clean, courteous, kind, brave or cheerful. They are a work in process.

Eric, The oath and law would not have to change. How a unit measures a scout's application of the oath and law is up to them. Dropping the DRP will have no effect on that. If the CO has an issue with an atheist scout, they can deal with it themselves. Local option. This is similar to the argument against gay marriage. I just can't see how two people getting married denigrates or jeopardizes my own marriage. Likewise, my scout unit accepting atheists would have no effect on your unit.

Or Onehouraweekmy you make my case for the local option. Because BSA doesn't push religious requirements on units through advancement or any method, why cause the legal/funding/PR problems scouting faces by explicitly excluding non-thiests. As you stated, its a local option on how religious each unit wants to be. Drop the DRP and all the issues go away without impacting a single existing unit and how they deliver the program.

America! Love it or leave it!

I share your observations. In my unit, CO Methodist, not one scout has earned or is working on their religious award since we joined (at least that I am aware of). We say grace and close meetings with a prayer from the chaplain's aid. That's about the extent of how much religion has permeated our unit. Some will say religion is the cornerstone to the scouting experience. Yet it is absent in all advancement, merit badges, motto, slogan and the eight methods. There is a mention in the oath. Its the last item in the law. LDS units have integrated their religion deeply into the program. Other don't. Consider it a local option.

Well, if the army says so, it must be correct.

Ed, your humble pie offers are refreshing. However, I'd had my fill in the flag patch orientation thread. A person is lying when they intend to deceive. It has nothing to do with the frequency of the act. Misstating the truth is not lying unless intent is to deceive. For example, saying that Iraq had WMD when you really didn't know if they did, isn't lying, unless you knew they didn't have WMD.

Well, It seems my perception of the staged events in Man V Wild were true. http://tinyurl.com/2la3yk The king of survival and being miserable for my entertainment is still SurvivorMan!

Beav, you are spot on. Mr. McGuire: I want to say one word to you. Just one word. Benjamin: Yes, sir. Mr. McGuire: Are you listening? Benjamin: Yes, I am. Mr. McGuire: Plastics. Benjamin: Just how do you mean that, sir? But you gots to do it right. Three weeks ago, I took the scouts into the wild with questionable weather forecast. We woke to 9 inches of fresh snow and 20 degree weather. I was absolutely comfortable, including the 3 mile hike back out. Bottom end... Ploy skivvies, Polypro first layer, fleece middle layer, switchbacks (yes the flimsy, light BSA issued ones) outer layer. Upper body... polypro first layer, fleece middle layer, goretex shell. Nothing natural touched my body. All plastic. I was dry, warm, light, energized. Despite the 1500 ft climb with a 40lbs pack. Wool may be nice, but plastic rules. Cotton outside your parlor meetings is nonsense. Go into the wilds with cotton, you deserve to be miserable. I have a pair of REI supplex pants similar to the BSA Switchbacks. They have seen 11 days backpacking a Philmont, 10 days at Northern Tiers and climbed numerous mountains in Colorado. Probably more than 100 nights in the wilds. Still look like new. Ok, one of the zippers screwed up in Alaska. But that griz was pretty mean!

Oh the dilemma! #1 son has had a growth spurt. He needs a new "field" shirt and "field" pants. I'll drop some coin on a pair of switch backs but I'm gonna force him to wear the old "parlor" shirt until this new one is issued. Can't wait to see this new thing.

Merlyn is a better debater. Ed is more entertaining. I like both of them and enjoy watching threads devolve into a bickering session between the two. Ed never disappoints me and frequently surprises me. I like surprises. Merlyn however, I can read like a book. But if I had to have someone on my side of the argument, it would have to be Merlyn. He is consistent, logical, and mostly correct.

Gotta admit, you made me look. All the pictures I found of the invasion of Omaha Beach show soldiers without US Flag patches on their arms. Astounding.

Good point Ed. Had it been two male leaders visiting each other would the same assumptions be made? I think I now see TJ's point.

I was a cubby, don't really remember when I became one, it wasn't a very important part of my life, but I crossed over into a troop. Both of my brothers were scouts (one Eagle, one Life) but they were 10 years older than me. I made it through Tenderfoot in one year then quit. It just wasn't fun. We had a great SM who made it fun, but tragically died of heart failure about 6 months after I joined. Another leader filled in. He was active military, and turned the troop into his little regiment. Uniform inspections each week, lots of yelling and drilling. No fun. His sons became little dictators and really made it no fun. I just quit going. Fast forward 25 years, my 8 year old son wants to join cubs. I roll my eyes and say OK. I was expecting the same leader types I saw as a youth. Nope, just nice people. No agendas. He gets his AOL and crosses over. He's a type 1 diabetic and Mrs. Blansten wants me to at least bird dog him for his first year camping. I sign up as a leader and attend every campout including summer camp. The leaders are not the ones I remember from my youth. Nice people. No agendas. I get trained. Become an ASM. Now in my 4th year in the troop, I feel more like a scout than a scouter. I've been to Northern Tiers, Philmont and soon SeaBase. I've done OKPIK and 3 summer camps. I guess I'm just making up for lost time. Over 120 nights camping and still counting!

Aw shucks Trev, I'd come talk to you whether you are wearing the knot or not.

At a round table, the advancement guru dictated to all in attendance that merit badge advancement forms would now be validated against the district merit badge councilor list. I asked him if new forms would be issued with a slot for councilor on the form. He said, no that we would continue to use the standard BSA form. I then asked if we needed to turn in blue cards. He said no, since our summer camps don't use them. I then asked how the district would validate the councilors. He just repeated that they would be checking. I yielded my remaining time to the chair. Whatever!

Kinda reminds of Arlo Guthrie's Alice's Resturant. (edited (poorly) for the Rainbow Patch...) And the only reason I'm singing you this song now is cause you may know somebody in a similar situation, or you may be in a similar situation, and if your in a situation like that there's only one thing you can do and that's walk into the meeting wherever you are, just walk in wearing an INCLUSIVE SCOUTING AWARD and walk out. You know, if one person, just one person does it they may think he's really sick and they won't take him. And if two people, two people do it, in harmony, they may think they're both gay and they won't take either of them. And three people do it, three, can you imagine, three people walking in wearing an INCLUSIVE SCOUTING AWARD and walking out. They may think it's an organization. And can you, can you imagine fifty people a day,I said fifty people a day walking in wearing an INCLUSIVE SCOUTING AWARD and walking out. And friends they may thinks it's a movement. And that's what it is , the INCLUSIVE SCOUTING AWARD Anti-Discrimination Movement, and all you got to do to join is sing it the next time it come's around on the guitar.