GernBlansten

I take the standard IRS tax deduction for mileage for every scout activity I particpate in less the ones I'm reimbursed for by the scouts. In those cases of reimbursment, I tally my fuel costs and divide them by the scouts and myself in the vehicle and have the costs applied to each scout account.

I've avoided posting in this thread because I haven't attended WB. But now that its evolved into WB vs WB21 (WB for the 21 century) and us vs them, I guess I can give my perspective. First off, I haven't attended WB because from what I've understood, WB21 is a management course. I have had lots of corporate management courses costing thousands of dollars and several weeks of my time over the course of 20+ years. So I view WB21 as redundant for me. I think anyone who hasn't had this type of training, it would be great to go through. I also understand that pre-WB21 was more scout craft oriented, much like a the Outdoor Leadership Training currently offered, just super-sized. When I took OLT three years ago, it was one weekend and they crammed a lot of scoutcraft into it. Not much time for the patrol method or leadership. It clearly didn't replace the old WB (at least from my perception of what that course was) but it was a good course. So I understand the controversy of old WB vs WB21. They aren't the same course and can't be compared. Seems to me that BSA screwed up by calling the new WB the same name as the old WB. Think old Coke and new Coke. They should have called it something different, maintaining the old WB (or retiring it) and offering the new one as the next step in adult training beyond WB.

Columbine changed everything.

Your right Brent. My bad.

Perhaps the good news isn't getting out because so many journalists are being killed there: 124. Compared to World War II: 68 World War I: 2 Not much good news coming out of those wars either. http://www.cpj.org/Briefings/Iraq/Iraq_danger.html

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071125/ap_on_re_us/activist_eagle_scout COLUMBIA, S.C. - Years before civil rights activist Cleveland Sellers got caught up in the deadly 1968 protest known as the Orangeburg Massacre, he was on the path to the elite rank of Eagle Scout until his paperwork was lost. Its never too late I guess.

Opening salvo on the War On Christmas. Tis the Season.

Hey GW, read any L. Ron Hubbard?

We tried inviting them (CO members) to our functions. No interest. But as our CC said after his meeting with the trustees, people over 70 shouldn't be running things. They are just too set in their ways.

I've had pilling where the hip belt on my backpack rubs on the hips. And a little on the butt from sitting on rocks. Other than that, they are holding up well. I view it as a badge of honor. That these pants don't do parlor scouting! Then again, I don't iron my shirt either! I have a pair of REI supplex pants of very similar material, but they don't pill like the switchbacks do. Must be the cheap Chinese fabric.

Our CO is a United Methodist Church. Our COR is never present and only a name on a form for all I can tell. Only two of our scout families attend this church. We attend Scout Sunday (cook and serve pancake breakfast for the congregation) and the bi-annual church grounds cleanup. Do an odd Eagle project for them. Last week, our CC attended a board of trustees meeting to pitch a new trailer idea to them, they prompty started a long list of complaints such as how noisy our boys are, furniture misaligned, doors left ajar, etc. Of course this is the first we heard about such complaints. I pretty sure that in the 50 years we have been chartered by them, the relationship has pretty much been the same, hands off with an occasional venting.

Our SM and myself have been pushing our older scouts to do this. They think its a great idea but fail to deliver a plan. I doubt it would have the same effect if we plan it for them and drop them off with a pickup time.

I always thought the lottery was a tax on those who didn't study statistics.

Ah, you are very quick grasshopper. Unfold is correct. Yes, Scooby Doing is licking your plate (unfolded bowl) clean. Can't do that with a deep, unfolding bowl unless you are Gene Simmons. Did you check the website? They have a folding cup. About useless in my mind. But it does work, I guess. No sir, my mess kit is a Spork, folding bowl and cheap plastic travel cup with lid for my only libation allowed on scouting events. Small carabiner to clip on my pack for quick access when visiting neighboring campsites.

GW, what kind of roasting bag would that be? Not PLASTIC would it . Probably a goat stomach eh? Those who won't human sump, get an origami bowl, the kind that fold flat. http://www.orikaso.com/Camping%20Gear/bowl.html When you are done with your gruel, simply unfold, Scooby Do it clean. Next time you need it, dip in boiling water to sanitize. At Philmont, we never did dishes. We sanitized our bowls and spoons in the same boiling water we used for re-hydration. We re-hydrated in PLASTIC roasting bags, slopped in origami bowls, Scooby Do'd the scraps. Good times. However, I will say, by the 11th day, everything tasted the same.

For the car camping troops, may I suggest a Bumper Dumper? http://www.bumperdumper.com/ Warning: be careful who you forward this to. I sent the link to my brother who immediately ordered one for me and had it shipped to my house just in time for Christmas a few years ago. Since then, its been a White Elephant gift several times over.

That menu sounds very similar to what we ate every day at Philmont! My pet peeve on backpacking menus is the scouts going out and just buying Mountain House freeze dried meals instead of putting their own together. I don't expect them to dehydrate their own foods or be trail gourmets, but at least put a little effort into it. Lots of stuff available at the local grocery store that can be combined into a great hearty meal. Minute rice or instant mash potatoes, a packet of dry chicken gravy, a packet of vacuum packed tuna or chicken. Dried apricots or mangoes for dessert. Man, my mouth is watering already!

We should hold ourselves to the same standards as we hold our scouts. Anything less is hypocritical.

. . . To keep myself physically strong, . . . Take care of your body so that it will serve you well for an entire lifetime. That means eating nutritious foods, getting enough sleep, and exercising regularly to build strength and endurance. it also means avoiding harmful drugs, alcohol, tobacco, and anything else that can harm your health. How can you on one hand sneak a smoke behind the scout's backs and then pontificate the virtues of the scout oath in front of them?

Good points GW. I agree. Things change. I recently read an article stating a majority of young Christian adults polled now consider homosexuality acceptable, a sharp contrast to their parents. Just like our parents were more inclined to openly discriminate against blacks, our generation's attitudes changed.

The only knots I would even consider to wear would be ones I earned as a youth. The program is for the youth, not us adults.

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One needs to be careful when throwing the Judeo/Christian label around. The concept of Heaven, Hell and Satan is one of the great differences between the faiths. According to Rabbi Michael Katz ... http://www.aldenfilms.com/jrconcepts.html Satan is the fallen angel of gnostic origins and the universal symbol of evil as defined by Christianity and Islam. He is described in literature (Paradise Lost, et al.) and in theology as an adversary of God. This notion of Satan as a fiend or a Prince of Darkness is inimical to the Jewish concept of God, which regards Satan as a servant of God. First mentioned in the Book of Job, Satan asks God to take away the earthly advantages of Job, in an effort to prove that Job might well not be so wonderful if all his benefits were removed. God permits Satan to do this, which is an example showing that Satan is always acting on Gods behalf, whether as the evil inclination or as the prosecuting angel in the world to come. Satans task is a thankless job where failure in effect denotes success. God creates Good and Evil in order to give man free will; Satan, rather than being an instigator creating evil, is Gods vehicle to test mans free will of good versus evil. In this lecture, Rabbi Michael Katz explains who Satan really is and is not.

GW, I thought everything you ever needed to know was in NLT? Seriously, I think its great to expose cubbies to LNT theories at an early age. Gotta keep it simple and easy to grasp. They might not understand why GW has to pack his poop out of certain areas or stay off eroding paths or not camp within 100 ft of watersheds or to pee on rocks instead of trees. Complex concepts that might go against what common sense and their parents might dictate. But they can grasp concepts of gross disregard to LNT. Take them on a hike through any area that allows ATV traffic. Have the boys count the number of beer cans, cigarette butts and empty shotgun shells. Show them evidence of the erosion caused by one ATV going off trail just once. Show them the damage to trees that shooting sports can cause. Show them how simple disregard for the environment hurts all of us.

What part of "Leave nothing but footprints" didn't sink in?