GernBlansten

Hey uz2b, I feel your pain. But you gotta play with the cards they dealt you. Either fold, or play out the hand. Take your frustration and light a candle to chase away the darkness. Like Packsaddle suggested, give us a concrete example of a requirement we could add to catch this sort of thing and nip it in the bud? Perhaps someone will read it, who knows someone who knows someone who knows someone who can make the change. OK. I'll go first. Change the requirement FROM: 4) While a Life Scout, serve actively for a period of 6 months in a position of responsibility TO: 4) While a Life Scout, serve actively for a period of 6 months in a position of responsibility immediately PRIOR to or while applying for Eagle Scout: In other words, if you want Eagle, you still serve the troop, but you do it in the last six months before Eagle, not ANY 6 month span before Eagle. This would not hold back any gung ho scout, and would bring those who leave for whatever reason back into the unit to demonstrate their commitment to the program.

At the unit level, what are the current positions? I only know of ASM, SM, COR, CC and committee member. Is there currently a position for a parent who wants to be a registered adult but not have one of those roles? Perhaps this new PA role is to fill that gap.

Some skippers will not allow shoes on the boat that you wear on land. They don't want you grinding sand into the deck. You will need two pair, one for beach combing and one pair to leave on the boat if you even wear them onboard. Real boat shoes are nice for wet decks though. they have non-marking siped soles which grip even a soggy, heaving deck. I personally like wearing shoes onboard, keeps me from catching my toes on something. Most folk just go barefoot while on the boat.

Flock of seagulls. Convocation of eagles.

I'm not sure we are short sighted about SeaBase, but comparing it to Philmont and Northern Tiers, it is far more of a vacation than a physical challenge. I also have been sailing for over 20 years, have my bareboat certification and regularily charter boats. There are plenty of challenges in sailing and plenty to learn at sea. But the conditions SeaBase operate in and the way that the boats are operated, the scouts have very little need to prepare for when they participate. There is no way a scout can just relax his way through Philmont or NT, but he sure can at SeaBase, at least while sailing. Still, its a great program and I'd highly recommend any scout who has the opportunity to take it do so. Its a heck of a lot cheaper than getting your own charter license and taking out your own boat.

"Exxon Mobil reported second-quarter earnings of $11.68 billion Thursday, the biggest quarterly profit ever by any U.S. corporation" Ain't capitalism great! Do they still get government subsidies?

Yeah, the project writeup seems to be the most work of the entire process and the one that holds scouts back. Our council requires that the final project writeup with sigs be submitted before the 18th.

Where's Longhaul when we need him. He's a trucker isn't he?

Ed, defininetly not a National deadline. We have submitted several eagle applications to national after the 18th B-day and received the eagle packet. All work must be done and certified by the council before the 18th, but the EBOR and submission to national can happen after.

Uz2b, Do you have similar problems with scouts who obtain eagle by say 15? Have those scouts demonstrated the same commitment to the program as your 18 year old who waited? Should eagle only be awarded to scouts who show a full pull commitment to the program? All the way from scout to eagle, all the way from crossover to the eve of their 18th B-day?

...in my best 'talking to dog' voice, "bad Gern, bad, bad Gern". Now you're channeling my wife Pack! Our unit hatched another Eagle scout tonight. Second this year. My seventh since taking over the role of Eagle advisor in our unit 3 years ago. This one was a deathbed too. Finished his project two weeks before his 18th. Been a busy summer for him, and we finally had his BOR tonight. Heads off to college next week. He was pretty active in his early years. Dad become the SM for a spell. Got to life by 14. Not a real leader. Did the basic requirements. Didn't like camping but did it when he HAD to. Got elected to OA. Did the ordeal. Never the SPL, never even wanted to be one. Kinda a bookworm kid, wall flower. 4.5 GPA. Honor student. Definitely not your Norman Rockwell scout. But he's a great kid. Kid? Right, young man. Very mature. Smart. Courteous. Kind. Obedient. All that stuff. Eagle stuff? You bet. Passed the BOR with flying colors. I'm proud of him. So is his dad.

Didn't you all watch "Something about Mary?" Those highway rest stops are notorious for all sorts of immoral behavior. Better to keep the scouts safe than sorry.

Its my understanding, and I'm sure BW will confirm or set me straight, that an ASM has the same power as the SM concerning these things granting that the SM has ceded his authority to the ASM. In other words, if an SM is going on vacation, he can delegate duties to an ASM without a problem.

"The advancement policies state that all requirememnts except the board or review must be completed PRIOR to his 18th Birthday." That rule is interpreted in my council as the application must be certified by the council on or before his 18th birthday. To certify an application, a scout must complete the application through the CC signature block, have a completed and signed project workbook, life statement and statement of faith. The council verifies dates and MBs with whats in ScoutNet. So if the case of the scout having his application filled out, signatures completed, and just finishes his project, all on his 18th B-day, and the office is still open to certify the app, he's good to go. Not likely, but possible.

I agree bob. The problem I see is that seasoned scouters (the council and district level too), the ones that new scouters look up to and rely on are the worst at getting these answers wrong. Seems training needs to directly address this like you have done. Perhaps a regular section in SCOUTER mag that dispels one myth per issue. Perhaps a UC program where UCs do the quiz to unit committees or round tables. Just thinkin out of the box.

Thank you BW. That's a very useful way to dispel misconceptions and incorrect traditions with our units. That quiz should be part of every SM training course, given at the beginning and end of the course.

What does not destroy me, makes me stronger. Friedrich Nietzsche

Ditto on the recipe books, however, if he's really thinking of trying something new, have him put together his own recipe. Let him pick which items to mix, experiment at home. Go the grocery store and in the canned meat aisle there's new vacuum packed chicken breasts that require no refrigeration. There's tuna and salmon too. PROTIEN Then head over to the packaged dry gravy rack or soup. Lots of choices. FLAVOR Then head over the minute rice or pasta aisle. STARCHES Go to the fresh veggie aisle and pick up an assortment. VEGGIES Hit the plastic bag section and pickup a few oven bags. PACKAGING Now head home. Dehydrate the veggies in the dehydrator if you have one. Or use fresh. Take all your ingredients and measure out meals into the bags, keep the meat in its foil until ready to eat. Weigh each meal dry and record it. Then start a pot with about an inch of water to a boil. Pour cold water in the bag to just cover the ingredients, and put the bag in the boiling camp pot. Let it rehydrate. When hot and re hydrated, remove the bag and eat. Adjust the amount of water for the next batch if too runny or too dry. Takes a few tries. Eat right out of the oven bag. No cleanup! Really, these meals are quite good, cheap and homemade. Now when he's ready to show his stuff at the campout, he'll have his own special homemade proven meal that everyone will be envious of.

Oh and uz2b, I truly wish that every Eagle scout was the image of Neal Armstrong or Steve Fawcett, but they won't be. They fall into wide range of good, solid young men. I bet this young man does, despite not wanting to camp with you much.

Actually uz2b, what I'm hearing from you, I heard from our CC last year about two deathbed scouts who were approaching Eagle. Same complaints. Was asking me of my opinion. The boys completed the requirements, checked out for a few years and came back to collect their Eagles. I gave him the same opinion I gave you. He reluctantly passed them, but admonished them on their lack of involvment, especially with the younger scouts. My take was it wasn't so much their problem, but ours, how to we keep the older boys interested. Still haven't figured that one out. Our CC is coming around to it as both his sons are doing the exact same thing those other two boys did. I do like to tweek his nose every once in awhile though.

No Bob, something's wrong. I'm in complete agreement with you and not even taking the slightest offense to your comment about me starting to support BSA.

Calico, More than one occasion, I've had to do the fly only setup for tenting. Often, when returning from a trip, I'll dry out the fly and tent then stuff them into a bin. Usually the fly, the poles, ground cloth in the tent bag, leaving the tent body in the bin because I don't like storing everything really compressed. Of course, in the rush to get ready for a trip, I just throw the tent bag into my pack leaving the tent body in the bin. Upon reaching camp, I have a fly, poles and ground cloth, but no tent body. Works fine, except it won't keep the bugs away from you! And we rarely ever get rain after sunset here so what's the point! One time, my son packed just the tent body, no poles, fly or ground cloth for both of us. We were climbing a 14nr and camping at timberline at 12,000ft in late spring. Luckily, we were able to fabricate a few poles out our hiking poles and it didn't snow that night. Oh well, whatever gets you through the night. Its all right. All right.

Seems the boy met all the BSA requirements. He's a great kid, at least you say he is. Why on earth would you not approve him? You know it would be immediately overturned on appeal don't you? Better use of your consternation would be to quiz him on why he is not active. Is it something in the program that is missing? Or is it something in him? Geez, I'm starting to channel BW.

You got AC pack? Heck, come these hot days, we just head down to the cellar for a spell. Come back out after sunset when it gets nice and cool.

Come on folks. Lets get another contestant on the Scouter is Right! Actually, this is fun and good for us. Helps us shed some of the old wives tales we have relied on for so long. I have no doubt BW has the correct answers, just itchin to figure out where we failed. The suspense is killing me. I hope it lasts.