GernBlansten

The only policy I can see that would protect BSA from lightning litigation would be to cancel all outdoor activity during potential lightning periods. In my region, that would be from 2 to 7 PM every afternoon from May through August.

Wikipedia (Ya I know) Fascism is typified by totalitarian attempts to impose state control over all aspects of life: political, social, cultural, and economic. The fascist state regulates and controls (as opposed to nationalizing) the means of production. Fascism exalts the nation, state, or race as superior to the individuals, institutions, or groups composing it. Fascism uses explicit populist rhetoric; calls for a heroic mass effort to restore past greatness; and demands loyalty to a single leader, often to the point of a cult of personality.

I'm not sure the neo-cons want a theocracy. They want world domination and control of resources and will use any means to get it. The neo-cons are parasites. They latch onto groups to extract what they need to advance their own goals and ambitions. They have only have interest in the goals of their host as long as that host provides them power. Once that host no longer can or will support them, they cast them aside and move to the next host. Classic case is Same Sex Marriage. They know it rallies the religious right but they have no intention of spending too much political capital getting it through. Ever notice when the religious right starts making noise and wandering off the plantation, the neo-cons whip out SSM. Then when everyone is back in line, it quietly goes away. Same thing with paleo-conservatives. Their hot buttons are taxes and small government. Neos like big government and know it takes taxes to pay for it. So they drop rates for the top, most powerful paleos to placate them. The paleos don't like the deficits, but since they are paying less of it, they are happy. Immigration is a tricky one for them. Paleos want cheap expendable labor. The religious right wants to keep America safe from immigrants and terrorists. Hard to play all the angles on that one. The net result is they come across as hypocrites. Terrorism was a trump card they used effectively but I think its run its course. When the masses started grumbling, you could count on an "ORANGE ALERT!". You can only cry wolf so many times. I doubt we will see anymore terror alerts. I think America has become numb to the threat of domestic terrorism. But who knows? If the polling numbers come October look real bad for the neos, they may try anything.

Agreed. Neo-con wise. They have used the religious right as a tool to get into power. They adopt their issues only to get votes then cast them aside on their quest for global domination.

I used to really enjoy Bill O'Rielly. I liked his in your face, no spin zone shtick. But this is really disturbing. I know BO and Oberman have not liked each other for a long time but I have to say, Oberman is spot on with is comments. I know there are plenty of BO supporters on this forum. What say ye? http://movies.crooksandliars.com/Countdown-OReilly-Malmedy.wmv

So would this mean that BofA would need to fund all youth groups in Georgia equally including Neo-Nazis and NAMBLA Junior Auxillaries? NAMBLA? What does the North American Marlon Brando Lookalike Association have anything to do with this?

I often wonder if those who promote the public display of religion and governmental support of religious activities would have the same views had their religion been the minority one?

Scoutmaster Royal is toast. I can hear the black helicopters from my tent right now triangulating on his position. They should be landing anytime to hand him his walking papers. Instead of "Ride of the Valkeries" blaring, its AC/DC "Another one bites the dust".

Hunt, You make a very compelling argument against the litigation with BSA. These lawsuits just make the hardcore supporters dig in their heels and most of the moderate supporters as well. Tough to change hearts and minds at the end of a legal sword. Those that love the BSA are tempered to the cause, those against the BSA wouldn't join even if they won their suits. Perhaps a more effect method would be just to publicize the instances of BSA policies of discrimination and hypocrisy and let society decide.

So Clinton and Rummy got the Silver Beaver, I guess the SB has been devalued like the Medal of Freedom. Purely political.

I commend Fred for bringing to this forum news articles that pertain to scouting, whether pro-BSA or anti-BSA. Sure, I would like him to give a little personal perspective, but if all he wants to do is stir up some sediment and see what brews up, that's fine with me.

There is an effort to remove prostylizing from the US Air Force Academy. Seems that the culture there was heavily slanted towards evangelical Christianity and those not of that persuasion were pressured by the followers of the leaders of that institution to become Christian soldiers. The football team even had a large banner displayed that said "Team Jesus". Not that there's anything wrong with that if it were Bob Jones University or Liberty University. But this is a military academy and should represent the US Government not a particular religious sect. Perhaps that is what the good General was referring to.

On a technicality. He had been granted immunity by the Senate and his appeal was based that his immunity protected him in criminal court also. The appeal was not based on his guilt or innocence, in fact, it really confirmed his guilt as he basically admitted to the crimes but couldn't be held accountable due to the deal he struck with the Senate.

I never ask a question at a BOR or job interview that can be answered in a boolean (yes/no). I like fgoodwin's question better than Ed's. Requires more thought and doesn't let the scout off too easy.

This year we have 8 adults going with our 35 scouts. Most we have had in the last two years I've attended is 4 adults. In the previous years, we adults have had a great, relaxed time. Same four and four new ones. I hope this year our personalities are just as synergistic.

We had a scout who attended camp as a provisional scout last year because of a scheduling conflict and had a great time. This year, he wants to do it again even though the conflict doesn't exist this year. However, this particular scout doesn't get along well with the other scouts in the troop and perhaps he just likes to start fresh each summer.

I've posted in your other thread about patrol methods at summer camp and touched on this. Our council camp offers a program (Eagle Point) that allows a troop to design their own summer camp experience. The troop can pick and choose what camp resources they need and what they will provide themselves. They can bring their own food or get it supplied. They can use the swimming pool and lake. They can use the gun and archery ranges. They can even "hire" counselors to provide merit badges. So at one end of the spectrum, a troop could just want camping space and no camp supplied stuff doing the rest themselves. At the other end of the spectrum, the troop would be getting what a typical summer camp program provides. Years ago, before my time, our troop did do this. But the commitment of parents must be high since they are responsible for the program. The boys from our troop that work as counselors at this camp enjoy working for that division. Its not the same old grind week to week. Personally, I think it works fine for troops with older boys. If you have a lot of first years, I think a more developed program is better.

Our council camp offers three options. 1) A troop style, dining hall camp. 2) A patrol style, patrol cooking. 3) And a self run troop camp (patrol cooking but troop provides/designs program). Our troop has always elected for the patrol style. The camp provides the cookboxes, stoves and raw food. Each patrol does the provisioning (getting the food from the depot), cleaning (4 bucket method) and cooking (propane stoves). Frankly, the food is better and meals are more enjoyable, less noise, more variety. The downside is cooking and cleaning take more time from other activities. This summer we are going out of council to summer camp but that camp provides the same styles.

Ok, I'm coming around to your thinking. We should take the lowest common denominator to guide our actions. Although we all follow the Scout Law and Oath and there should be no question of our integrity and honor, some people might have dirty thoughts about what is going in my tent, therefore we must have a silly rule like only married couples can tent together (In the Guided to SAFE Scouting at that!) I guess my daddy was wrong when he said, "If you aren't doing anything wrong, you shouldn't care what people think about it." BTW, I don't think kids would have care in the world if Mrs. Jones and Mr. Smith shared a tent nor do I think they would even consider it immoral unless their parents said something about it.

Can one assume that since you are comfortable with providing this example to young people on a campout, you would have no problems with letting the male and female members of a Venturing Crew share tents? Depends. If the pair are mature and respect the code that sex not allowed and they need to respect each other, I have no issue. But not all 14 year olds are mature enough to resist the temptation. So pratically, I'd say the rule stands for youth. I certainly hope that if my son found himself in a situation that he needed to share his tent with a female, he would have learned that it is not immoral and an open invitation to take advantage of the situation. As Americans, I think we are a bit too uptight with our sexuality and it works against us. Just look at how this discussion devolved. Adults who normally follow the Scout Law and Oath, if put in a tent together will resort to unabashed sexual pleasures as soon as the tent flap is closed. That is the example you are setting for the youth.

Wow. What is the major cornerstone in any marriage? Trust. No, my wife would have no problems with me sharing a tent with another female. She trusts me. I would have no problem if she would share a tent with another male, I trust her. I also trust her not to share a tent with a man who might have bad intents (pun intended). Likewise, I would not share a tent with a woman who might not respect my position. She knows that. Until now, I thought I had morals but Ed is making me re-think that. Sharing a tent is not living together or shacking up. Its sharing temporary shelter. Ed says its not about hanky panky, but both responses to my comments are directly related to hanky panky. Back to the topic, what demonstrates more character and morality? Demonstrating to scouts that tents are not brothels and no sex shall be engaged in there, or having a issue because some adults might do something in there? The BSA rule that only married couples may share a tent tells me that they not only condone sex in tents, but expect it.

I'm confused Ed. Me sharing a tent with another male adult leader is moral and ethical. Me sharing a tent with another female adult leaders is immoral and un-ethical. Why?

Obviously, y'all have your hackles up because these two might have sex on a campout. Personally, I think you should refrain from sex while camping with other peoples children. Your values may vary. Don't know if its a BSA rule or troop policy. In my opinion, all sexual activity should be curtailed at scout campouts, whether it be between two scouts, an adult and a scout, two same sex scouts, two same sex adults, married adults, common law adults, adults and livestock, lone adults. This only married adults rule in G2SS is just silly. Doesn't it show greater character to demonstrate your adults can share a tent without even the slightest hint of hanky panky?

marilyn manson fans only (with special uniform requirements) I bet they wouldn't have any problem getting their scouts in uniform.

I found myself at a loss on how do deal with a homesick scout last summer and want to be better prepared this year. Do you think it would be helpful to have a few letters from parents to whip out at the first sign of homesickness? Does mail from home help or hurt the situation? I'm really at a loss here, as a child, I was just stoked to get away from my parents that my depression started when we started packing for home.